Hey guys, I'll be finding the exact C stick values to beat the delayed slide off very soon and will be posting them here if anyone is interested! I also wanted be clear about the horizontal + vertical sweet spot segment of the video. The tip of Marth's sword is always able to hit Falco attempting a perfect vertical sweet spot, but if you are able to go closer to the hilt of his sword (shown in the first example) you can avoid the lowest part of his down tilt and sweet spot around it still. In the second example, Falco is jumping far enough away to avoid the tip of the sword and is still able to grab the ledge after. I hope you enjoy the video :)
glad to see more people talking about the angled c stick thing. druggedfox mentioned it in one of my lessons like 4 years ago as a fun fact, and it’s great to see melee evolve to the point that it’s entering common knowledge as an actual defensive option.
@@broor I feel like in the dthrow situation, marth doesn't really have time to reposition and often just immediate turn around dtilts, so it'd be easier for you as falco to recognize how to sweetspot. Maybe in some other situation when marth is mid walk or wavedash it'd be harder to recognize and it becomes more like a 50/50. Granted marth also has to time the dtilt so it's probably more skewed in falco's favor than a 50/50.
Amazing content, you're the only melee youtuber providing relatively obscure (but vital) information in a well-edited, succinct and watchable package. If there was a ginger for every melee character 2030 melee would be here tomorrow
I only know with Fox, but back in 05 M2K used to avoid the fthrow chump check by immediately spot dodging after the first throw and then grabbing Marth himself.
Thanks so much for this ginger! These are a lot of common things I get caught by while playing Falco against my buddy's Marth. Nice to have some definitive knowledge on these specific interactions!
I'm really happy you're starting a series like this. There are so many great tech videos for melee but I find the videos that cover matchup specific knowledge checks like this to be lacking. I really hope you continue the series!
Ginger this is the greatest video series idea ever. I recently started going to locals in socal and this is the biggest thing I struggle with as a slippi kid. I have good tech skill but in tournament I can just tell Im getting chump checked by so many things that I just have no knowledge of and don't know what to do about. Doing this with every top tier character matchup as falco would be so helpful I cant even describe it
Great job! This really does cover a lot of the most common chump checks with Marth vs Falco. After you DI down and away for Fthrow at low percents, you can reverse chump check the Marth by using Shine. If they go for the grab, you'll shine them instead, and you can get some damage out of it. You can't get too predictable though, or Marth can start forward smashing. I've seen a combination of Shine, spot dodge, and dash away after Fthrow at low percents work well. But I'm a mid level player so that that with a grain of salt.
Knowing the tip of dtilt is the lowest point is simple knowledge that, in hindsight, makes it feel obvious to check the hitbox yet I never thought to lol. It's nice to demystify it as sweet-spotting is one of those areas of melee where I feel like it's easy to shrug and say maybe I just messed it up and got clipped, dunno. Also thanks for the clarification in the comments. As I understand it (and to repeat in my rewording), you can observe how close marth is to ledge, if he is rather close you want to stay close to the stage to duck under the hilt, if he is a bit further on stage and covering the ledge with the tip you want to sweetspot further away and take advantage of magnet hands.
Thats exactly right, from my testing ive found that a good way to maximize the magnet hands is to input a jump with neutral drift, or backwards drift if absolutely necessary, and then hold forward towards the stage at the peak of your jump to ensure that you dont miss the ledge and fall to your death. -Ginger's Editor
Chump check is invaluable for beginners! The first time I played I remember feeling like I was getting cheesed so easily by my lack of knowledge on DI, and odd interactions that dedicated and more experienced players knew. Having answers to these small situations is exactly the way new players can avoid getting tilted when they first play because I simply couldn’t find straightforward answers when I was getting destroyed on unranked for the first time haha
Not to mention most guides just dive into talking you through game plans, your punish game, neutral, etc. when those are concepts you’ll develop from actually playing, it’s kind of useless to study those things when you’re getting chaingrabbed because you don’t know how to DI yet. Can’t wait for more from this series!
great video. I never understood why i sometimes get the slide off di and sometimes dont. I guess it's a timing thing or whether they are uptilting/upairing. does the direction they're facing also influence it?
good shit. editor; is he playing on a reskin of the stage? i’d imagine he has a green-screen instead of a solar system to make the editing easier. or, are you keying it a specific way? looks excellent
I'm under the impression that a single SDI input can help with the uptilt slideoff, but I couldn't say at what percents/ platform sizes it is actually necessary.
As a marth player at lowish level, I did not even know of these counterplays. I thought regrab at 0 was guarenteed unless I mess up and the delayed upair on platform into up tilt beat all slide offs. Thanks for giving me something to learn even though I dont play falco. Plus bonus points for the fire emblem music.
me, expecting a universal answer to marth dtilt that i can implement with falcon: falco: uses magical hovering mid air jump cancelable move TrollDespair SmokeTime
