Check out INTOTHEAM: intotheam.com/Rob2628 Please keep mind that this is just a first Tier List draft after playing the PTR. There is one more final patch coming! Hope this helps to give an overview of the current Power level of Builds! Tier List Draft: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bN8C_Fe9nrWv__jUc_Vdbl220g4NM0mlux-ga_s_-5s/edit?gid=1254546664#gid=1254546664 Timestamps 00:00 Tier List Explanation & PTR 02:46 Sorcerer 05:41 Necromancer 09:39 Druid 12:51 Rogue 16:46 Barbarian 25:27 Final Thoughts
rob, i havent been playing after S1 and will be playing for S5, as Druid. however i have a question for the AK47 build: Changeling aspect requires the Druid to be in bear form, but casting Poison Creeper turns me into human form. does that mean i am suppose to immediately cast a landslide each time after i casted Creeper, to quickly back into bear form for the Changeling to take effect for the Landslide that pop from the Subterranean aspect?
I'm asking myself why barb should not be nerfed we had a crarzy powercreep already and we go down the d3 game development way that is imo very very very very Bad!
@@Rob2628 pointless fucking video. Literally almost all of this is going to and will change. Why even bother making this when it will be COMPLETELY outdated within a week and EVERYONE knows fixes and changes are coming. Half of these are based off builds using bugged interactions or items and will never make it to the actual game. FFS man come up with better content
I like how he says during rogue that because the rogue hit for 22 billion it has to be a bug, but then flay barb comes up hits for 500 billion and he says it's no bug interaction at all
The Robbarblo must think he's a supreme ruler lol I really don't understand why ppl hype him so much. I'm probably the only one has to turn off the sound, sorry he is a no go lol
@@chaddrusso8850 ye ofc nerf barb, in season 0 and 1 even after nerf, barb was strongest and it never was different, barb is always strongest, cause they fkd up the core of the class
"We want to bring all the other classes up to the Barbarian level of power without nerfing the Barb. So we are going to nerf the shit out of every class so everyone plays Barb." - D4 derp devs
It may sound ridiculous but it is what it is. You can reasonable calculate how you reach that damage on a Barb but on most other classes it is just some infinite stacking bug. Obv this needs to change flay is crazy
I would love to play Sorc but cannot. Sorry but I just do not want to manage 5 different cooldowns at all times. It is not fun. The team responsible for this class needs to hand it off to someone else. The class has been struggling since release if we do not count the few times that it was "overperforming" thanks to bugs.
@MrHellweasel it was perfectly fine to me. They should have kept it and buff other skills for sorceress to match with ball lightning. All builds should be end game viable. Blizzard doesn't know wtf they are doing
i love that depending on which class is on the chopping block, the meme changes. like how it was everyone memeing about nerf barb when it was obliterated by blizz in season 0-1.
I'm just a casual gamer so I don't have as much in depth experience on class mechanics. But after a year of playing D4 and trying a different class every season, I think Barb & Rogue have a massive advantage by being able to equip more than 2 weapons. With the S4 itemization changes this only amplified their powers. Although Druids, Necros and Sorcs were given added class mechnics like spirit boons, book of the dead and enchantments. Those unfortunately do not scale and are insufficient in closing the power gap that an extra weapon slot or two could provide. I think it's going to take a combination of reworking those class mechanics to be 5x more and also removing caps on paragon nodes and key passives for Druids, Necros and Sorcs to be brought up to Barb and Rogue power levels.
16:55 I agree with what you said the developers have said, but saying and doing are two different things. They've AGAIN nerfed Sorc and Necro with unnecessary changes.
they had to walk that back the community hated it, their original concepts and ideas are gone no reason to act like its not exactly what the playerbase wanted.
If they dont cap gushing wounds, im not playing season 5 and im not getting the expansion. There is no reason to cap the damage on every class but barb. Fuck. That. Noise.
Yeah, so nerf the build, that’ll help all the other classes. Genius. That’s how I know you’re a hater. Don’t advocate for your favorite class to improve, just advocate that the other guys get nerved to the point they suck as bad as you
@jarrodgentry9966 Bro, if every other class is brought up to 230 billion dmg Barb level and everything in the game dies in 2 seconds, you get a bad game. Barb players who cry about not wanting to be brought in line with other classes are toxic to the health of the game. It's already to the point where any time I'm standing at the pit obelisk, I see 7 Barbs and nothing else. You people just want it to be a 1 class game and that's dumb.
I'm convinced that the employees in charge of balancing really have no idea how the top builds function. Blizz needs to hire people like Rob to help balance classes because clearly their current employees do not play the game nearly enough to fully understand it.
Because they hire people based on DEI and not skills required for the job. Have you seen a video of how they play their own game? No wonder this game is pure garbage in terms of class balance.
Legit think devs have double digit IQ. They have the damage buckets and they just need to figure out what the numbers are when multiplied across buckets. It's not even calculus or linear algebra, and they can't figure this shit out. Subhumans, imo.
No class should even be close to hitting for billions of damage. Tormented bosses were supposed to be a challange and we are bonking them for half their health bar per hit. The current balance is a complete dumpster fire.
I hate it. I'm playing Dust Devil without bleeds right now in S4 and I think this could be a healthy baseline for builds, but everything Rob showed here has 10-1000 times more damage 🤢
Just out of left field here but. Giving the Sorc a third weapon slot, and a third enchantment slot seems to be the most requested ideas so far. That could work, but would make the class much more difficult to balance properly. Just reworked key passives would be decent for now, as most likely the expansion will address a lot of the class issues.
Yd I'd love a third enchant slot. but to be honest, most of the skills when slotted in enchant are absolute garbage so I dont think that would do a whole lot unless they rework the enchants.
sorc just doesnt have good multipliers(against unstopable enemies), thats it, 3rd ench slot wont do shit, they just need to make all multipliers work against bosses
Been a sorc main since s2 and then I switched to rogue then to barb in s4 and I can say I truly feel the gap that the barb has between the other classes Ive played. I really enjoyed Barb now but please properly buff the sorc as I still love that class but its almost unplayable in comparison with the Barb
I still haven’t given up on the Sorc yet. It’s a great class for farming low end content. There needs to be a way to ramp DPS, and a rework to the key passives would be a great start, but the real problem is the paragon glyphs. More general mechanics instead of hyper specific mechanics could also help. I mean this isn’t rocket science.
Hope they nerf Gushing Wounds. Rogue doing 22 bil damage with perfect 3 GA, 3x Crits on Masterwork = bugged. Barblo with average gear doing 230 billion damage, as intended. No bug! LOL
Class balance - LOL. Teleport nerfed, focus nerfed, flame shield nerfed, ice armor nerfed, Debilitatin Roar nerfed, Shadowblight nerfed, Victimize nerfed, etc Meanwhile, Barb holding one button to auto-attack with Bash or WW... Yeah, this game is perfectly (un)balanced. LMAO. They will nerf everything to the ground outside the Gushing Wounds. And Barb will get a 50% Polearms buff, longer bleed, Shard of Verathiel, and Perma Berserking Aspect. Step 1: Druid, Necro, and Sorc should be able to wear 2H + 2x1H like Rogue to get two more Aspects, two more Gems, two more offensive stats, and four more Tempers.
No, no, no! Stop asking for classes to carry more weapons. It is unnecessary. Just raise class specific values to compensate for the lack of extra weapons. This crying for weapon homogenization is as bad creatively speaking as the Bluzzard team already is...
@@dogs-game-too Your Bash will be OK with new items and will do even more damage than in s4 as it was already tested. Even without these buffs Bash after 80% nerf will do more dmg than any Druid, or Sorc build.
Sorc needs more survivability. If you don't have a barrier or a shield active you probably get one shot. Most of my skill slots are taken up by defensive skills. I get a barrier when I use a cooldown. So I basically get a barrier at the same time as I have a shield. The only cooldown that I use that actually gives me a barrier is frost nova (freezes) and lightning spear (stuns) so the 3 second barrier is mostly useless. You could argue teleport but it gives a 4 second DR so basically a 1 second usable DR. This makes using a single target skill like ice shards hard to use. It clears mobs but against bosses it struggles. You have to spend more time running than dealing damage. Blizzard/ice spikes does more single target damage and does DOT while you're running. I feel that they should either give sorc a full time DR passive or extend the duration of barriers. Icy veil does this so maybe they could just boost the % to it. I know that people like clearing mobs quickly but a single target skill needs to do more damage to a single target than an AOE.
It's funny how typing something out can change your thinking. Maybe I have it backwards. I've been using the defensive skills from the beginning when it's possible that just relying on the barrier from cooldowns would be better. So still use teleport with the damage node and replace the other 2 with offensive cooldown skills. I guess it's worth looking in to.
Tal rasha ring needs a buff so it could scale with all elements , with the tempering it's possible to get schadow and poison damage , key passives need a rework and lightning sorc needs damage multiplier's
Thank you Rob for your tier build video! This was helpful and loved your analysis of the meta shift for season 5! Keep up the great work you do for the D4 community! 😊 (p.s. Nice haircut Rob!)
Of course barb will always be the best by default. Only class that has 6 hands, extra bonuses from extra affixes and legendsry effects and crystals. That kakes it best already. Its like 2h scythe would need to have 4 x times current stats on barb to counter it
"Of course barb will always be the best by default" except it hasn't always been the best lmfao, people like you are why devs shouldn't listen to their community. you just whine all day about your favorite class instead of caring about balance. the entire point of barb having 4 weapons and necro having 1 or 2 is because necro has a book of the dead and barb has arsenal+weapons, its the class design you are so fucking clueless.
Why is it that Blizzard, and a lot of players can't wrap their minds around raising class specific values to compensate for the lack of extra weapons? It's always "bArBs HaS 6 wEaPoNs. I wAnTs 6 WeApOnS oN mY sOrC tOo."
I get that you are probably not that bright, but the key difference is that necro has minions and book of the dead as it’s class mechanic. so your point about 2h scythe needing 4x stats to “counter” barb doesn’t make sense. each class has its own unique mechanic so if you want necro to have 4x stats on its 2h, book of the dead would need to be removed or nerfed.
@@Skydogg5555 necro has book, barb has weapon masteries, same shit different thing. All I can see it proves the point that barb is strong and can use more codex powers due to having more slots. I main barb and it has been a thing since I remember.
@@ThomashowardX its not same shit different thing, your entire point is just to list what makes barb a barb and then say "because i have listed what makes barb a barb, i'm going to now say i want necro to have a 2h scythe with 4x current stats". again, barbs do not have book of the dead...stop pretending that giving necro 2h scythe with 4x stats would be a good direction. there is a reason why blizzard hasn't done this trash suggestion you give and has buffed book of the dead scaling and other actually interesting changes that keep each class unique.
What blizzard should do is make it so every class can have 12 possible aspects equipped all they would have to do create a couple more item slot types for each character.
I never thought id miss set armour from D3 so much and while it made eveyone wear mostly the same gear atleast it opened up more class builds than in D4
I just go for a Barb and a Rouge… Just because Sorc my favourite Class is broken and they want fix it. In other words there is no other possibillity because everything else is crap.
Have to remember they said they are going to change all of the existing uniques in some ways come season 5. This is really important for Sorc at least, because uniques in general are stronger and more build defining for Sorcs than their legendary powers and tempers are.
Some idea of builds for sorcerer "... sorc's hydras become mobile pets..."; "...ball lightning is now summoned at a target and explodes instantly..."; "...meteor is now a giant meteor summoned at the target doing physical damage..."; "...putting different element shields/barriers now gives thorns elemental damage while active at the same time..."
Hi Rob compliments for the builds you create....i'll take advantage of this latest video to ask you how the power of Lucion's crown works. At 5 stacks is there still a reduction in the cost of resources or not? thank you very much
As a sorc player, maybe it's because sorcs are ugly af. If I didn't love magic, I wouldn't be playing that ugly piece of s. Not that I am ever going to play D4 again at the rate they are nerfing the game.
6:32 This game is a lot of fun I've played druid since release and tried a barb finally in season 4. Who is in charge of balancing these characters, and how do they still have a job lmfao
why do they cap dmg. If we cant even do with a good build t 150? whats the point on nerving every build. Every Build should do Trillion Damage if the Boss have tons of Life
Thanks for putting the list together but I'm just not interested in playing if Sorc (the only class I enjoy playing) is just dumpster tier every season. The game still feels somewhat 1 dimensional in that items are injected into the game in order to add builds... It doesn't seem like there is any builds out there getting discovered.
Why wouldn’t u want every build to perform high again? If every build on every class was performing the same or close to each other, it sounds like balance to me. If flay build hits 1-2 billion and upheaval build hits 700-800mil, Necro minions at 1-2 billion and bone spear at 800mil-1.5 billion, pulverize 800-900mil landslide 1-2billion. Or hey, flurry at 11 dmg and rapid fire at 17 dmg. Whatever the numbers, just seems like it’ll be more balanced this way than what it is or has been
As a long time magic player in every game I play, another round of Sorc nerfs means I am indefinitely shelving this game - probably for good. What a sad state of affairs.
combine locras and lucion into SAME item, make it uber unique and sprinkle with some nerf. Then we'll have an uber to chase for all core builds. May be make it a helm, so it competes with shaco for the slot
That’s exactly right, they need to get the builds as strong as the barbarian to balance classes, not nerffing them to get there, also they need to get rid of the limit to temper items, finding a great item and bricking it is one of the worst experiences in the game, we also need more endgame activities and bosses, hopefully soon
Am I the only one that the fly ruture causes lag at high levels? starting at 154 or 150+ when casting rupture takes many seconds to explode many times you die because of this delay.
I havent ever gotten a character good enough to even fight lilith due to not having alot of time and some really bad rng. And ive never looked at build vids or websites because i think it takes the fun and creativity out of rpgs when you simply copy and paste what you see on a youtube video. But i didnt think there would be that many good basic builds already. I was really excited checking out the new uniques because i always wanted to try making a really good basic build but i always fell a bit short of great. I only have 1 level 100 and ive been playing the same druid since launch trying to make a great build with the claw and i got a level 58 barb that i tried to make a frenzy build.
For years and years, i still make a barb, gear him, level him, to farm mats for my sorcerer. I really like the look and feel of the sorcerer class. Aside from the shatter/Fireball/burning BS, which really feels more like an exploit than a build, its just trash compared to other classes. Its like Blizzard is deaf and blind to the hundreds if not thousands of hours of videos and posts that place it last consistently in the class list in D3 AND D4. I was hoping the lightning build would be stronger than suggested with the new things - to see an "S" class sorcerer build that isn't based on some hack. I honestly wish Rob worked on the game design staff.
Oh wait there was one 3 or 4 years ago..the Firebird build in D3 where you zipped around and blew stuff up with a slashing attack and little copies of you spawned. Now that was fun.
Only issue is people completely go by tier lists and not what the have fun with. The think if they go for a top build then they will be better than everyone. You should do disclaimers on how hard a top builds is to achieve lol
Am I the only one that thinks combat numbers should be scaled back? These incredible digits clutter up the HUD. Also, can I take this moment to second class balance?
Every build should be viable. I loved but also hated s4 cuz of basic skills... how lame is that... make the gsme so that every build works. Basic skills. Core skills. Mastery what ever u name it.... i was so hyped start of season 4 with teleport build. Got like 2k incr teleport dmg but couldt clear higher then tier 65 orso... after 2 weeks i quit esspecially when insaw basic skills were ruling the leaderboards...
man i already played this landslide druid this season. i was hoping something different creeping up next season like more overpower to pulverize or somethn. or maybe shred
Druid companions need an entire overhaul. As it turns out when you change the multiplier of the damage they do and multiply it to 0 or 1 you get shit. You can disregard any druid builds doing well in the PTR if they were using poison creeper which they all are cause it was bugged to do obscene poison stacking damage.
@@bungmonkey2295 Sure, but my comment was about companions being shit. Clearly in the example Rob gave the poison creeper was doing all the work. Companions should be just as viable as summons are for Necro.
@@bradjenkins2861 he did show a wolf guy tearing up pit 120. Darth microtransactions popped a quadrillion with his ptr companion build so ya I don't think they'll be a problem as of now
@@bungmonkey2295 Yeah you dont seem to get it. Poison creeper was bugged in ptr carrying the builds focused on besides landslide which got a huge buff but even with that huge buff all the landslide builds seen in the ptr are abusing poison creeper. Once that bug is inevitably fixed landslide will still be really good and companions will still be shit because nothing meaningful was changed.
@@bradjenkins2861 i get it lol. I still don't think companions will be shit. I made a druid alt to x2 drops when i drag player 2 on ps5. With the alpha aspect on staff and wolf damage tempers/storm companion GA wolves they were doing over a million a hit passive. S5 will let you have 6 wolves adding more bonus to shepards. It might not ever be a top meta build but for a casual player it will be more than viable imo
I for one hate sorcs aren't getting any love. I played pre season and s1 on sorc. I quit playing for s2 and s3. Came back for s4 and tried necro which isnt fun to play at all for me. Barb was fun but I want to play sorc again and not feel so weak. Not sure if i play s5 or if i do, how long I will stay interested when I have to play barb again. Rogue and Druid just isnt fun for me to play either.
Blizzard need to re-tune the damage and enemy life values to a lower value. It will not feel like a nerf since the intention is to synchronize the reduction with the player damage and enemy life. That way, we will not see these absurd numbers. By the time DLC came, D4 would have overlapped D3 with the insane damage numbers.
@@OP_FUJI First, it's for s5 when that build is dead. not nerfed, completely dead. Besides its dog shit to play, people were forced into it. Second, I play all the classes and as many builds as I can. I'm not "you guys". Sorcs need a lot of help. My level 90 barb alts gushing wounds is worth ~8400 multiplicative damage. That's several orders of magnitude better than the entirety of the sorc talent tree put together. Druids are right there with sorcs and necros have 1 foot in the grave. I don't care about sorcs. I care that 90% of builds are dog shit.
@@jasonlucia6682 you have to sit a realize that barbs have 12 gear slots bro. 4 of them being weapons which you can put 6 gem slots. Therefore we can have 12 pure dmg aspects so of course a barb is always going to be doing way more dmg than other classes man
@@OP_FUJI 2 weapon slots doesn't take you from hitting for 10m(sorc) to 50b bleeds. And 8400 multiplicative damage from a single talent is absolutely batshit. Yes they have more weapons, their talents/aspects/paragons/tempers should be on average weaker than other classes to account for it. Instead they're stronger, a LOT stronger.
@@jasonlucia6682 lore accurate Barb I guess lmao. Only reason we barbs are pushing that much dmg is bc we have so many skills in the skill tree that do bleed, glyphs, paragon nodes and aspects. Add all that on top of gushing wounds and it’s bound to happen. The devs did it for a reason people just need to stop complaining about Barb and start asking for buffs for other classes instead of trying to nerf something that shouldn’t even be nerfed smh
It's incredible how I paid 60 dollars for a game to play only Sorc... and Surprise!! It's been shit this whole time trying to enjoy the game! I will not pay again for such a frustrating experience and expensive game
Robs builds are great but most people shouldn’t expect to even come close to the same numbers he is putting out. He always gets triple greater affix god rolls on all his gear to hit those numbers. I’m lucky to get one piece of gear with triple greater affix.