And Joe's questions aren't completely idiotic trash that a 4 year old would ask the teacher on their first day of school. I can't stand Lex Friedman's podcast because of that. "If the Egyptians played football what team do you think they would be?" God I want to punch him
@Late Notice It’s underrated because if you listen to a lot of other podcasters they talk over each other all the damn time, so when you listen to JRE you learn to appreciate it.
That's the reason his show is the biggest in the world. He's always been that way. He's never once been shy about saying that he doesn't know or that he's an "idiot on this" as he says. People that say he doesn't either disingenuous or just have never seen the show outside of 30 second TikToks.
I love when Joe has people on who simply just want to explain their vast knowledge. They don’t care about the exposure or press. They just want to tell others what they know, and I love that.
This is one of the largest days of this pseudo historians career. I guarantee you he cared immensely about the amount of eyeballs that would be on this interview.
@@hotdog9262 yes. spending a decade, or more, of one's life consumed by independent research (scouring rarely viewed archival, primary sources [that aren't available to the general public]) is merely a formality. /s there are garbage studies in colleges that serve little-to-no purpose of advancing humanity - even different scopes of history that do nothing but belittle the speciality altogether. ancient history, that narrates important eras of humanity and help us understand our vast, expansive past, isn't one of them. gender/queer/etc studies fit under your umbrella, I will agree to that.
@@columboscandela anything that is available to a student is available to any individual wanting to learn. the main difference is the one who actively searches for a particular knowledge is truly interested, learns it and carries it more or less permanently. while the student work the info, leaves it and forgets. take away the actual job at the end of the studies, then academia is more or less pointless in itself imo. the real learning process starts on the job. then the individuals who never were interested in the subjects but got grades find themselves out of a job
I love history and I love hearing historians talk about history but it never ceases to amaze me how much we don’t know and how much we assume based on very little evidence! It makes me wonder what life was truly like back in those times!
Because Evolution owns the Science. They don’t want you to know archeology and history. Paint some pictures of monkeys and fish and sell it to a bunch of people that want to be kings of the earth
I had Dan Flores as a professor at U of Montana for two classes they were the best classes I ever took as a college student in the mid 1990s. Super nice dude, approachable and helpful in understanding of the American West and history.
One of the 1st Mountain Men (1780's) wintered over with Indian Tribe. He wrote that the old Chief told him the story of the Chief as a young man participated in the last hunt of the Great Beasts. And described Woolly Mammoths exactly.
@@HundoScoop...... I wish people would try to understand what this guy is REALLY saying. And that is that there were BLACK people civilizations , that was here flourish and had cities and villages on parr with the Egyptians. And America was a very Black country with 10,000's + years before any European civilizations were on American land. And this my friends why they can't find any proof of the "Many slave ships " that supposed have come from Europe! Also only 2% to 3% of slaves were brought here out of all the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade as a whole. Very interesting!🤔
@@reviewerreviewer1489..... I wish people would try to understand what this guy is REALLY saying. And that is that there were BLACK people civilizations , that was here flourish and had cities and villages on parr with the Egyptians. And America was a very Black country with 10,000's + years before any European civilizations were on American land. And this my friends why they can't find any proof of the "Many slave ships " that supposed have come from Europe! Also only 2% to 3% of slaves were brought here out of all the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade as a whole. Very interesting!🤔
In the winter of 1992, a construction crew in San Diego, California started cutting into the rocks that flanked the State 54 Highway, in a bid to widen the road. Those rocks hailed from the Pleistocene period and were rich in Ice Age fossils, so scientists from the San Diego Museum of Natural History accompanied the crew to recover whatever they unearthed. Among bits of horse, camel, dire wolf, and ground sloth, they found the remains of a single mastodon-an extinct mammoth-like animal. “And we noticed there was something different about it,” says Thomas Deméré, who was part of the team.Based on several lines of evidence-the way the bones are broken, the way they lay, the presence of large stones that show curious patterns of wear and are out-of-place in the surrounding sediment-the team think that early humans used rocks to hammer their way into the mastodon’s bones. That wouldn’t have been contentious in itself, but the team also claims that the bones from the “Cerruti Mastodon” are 130,000 years old. That would push back the earliest archaeological evidence for humans in North America by a whopping 115,000 years. Edit: This article was take from the Atlantic and it's about the article written in "Nature". It destroys "clovis first" dogma entirely and that's why they didn't publish it for 20 years as this occurred in the early 1990's. Let's be honest about something. If they're lying about this what else are they lying about? People have been here in the Americas far longer than they are letting on. Why would they want to cover that up? That's the real question.
The Clovis model is no longer taught in college anymore. There’s been new evidence that there were multiple great migrations/ a constant stream of people since before the ice passage opened. People made their way down the great kelp highway on boats.
@Michael Seybold So why are South American Tribes genetically linked to Aboriginal Australians but North American Aboriginals are not? It would imply a people able to navigate oceans and deep sea thousands if not 10s of thousands of years earlier than we thought. Would it not?
@@michaelseybold1743 And Imagine, after all those migrations, not one of those groups invented the wheel or learned how to smelt iron. They basically walked everywhere and carried or dragged everything.
This guy doesn't seem to be much of a critical thinker. If you find tools that didn't seem to be used, isn't it more likely that the tool just hadn't been used yet? Or that it was just well maintained? IDK this guy is a constant string of bad critical thinking. Like saying that finding clovis points all over america indicates that their society was in all those places. Isn't it far more likely that they just traded the points with many different tribes, who then may have traded them with others? Or that the skill was more widespread across multiple cultures than we assume?
@@N8Dulcimer As he mentioned latter in the clip, there are burial sites where the points have been found covered in dye buried with the remains. As with anything in archeology it's impossible to be certain as to the motivations of the people who made these sites, but it does suggest the points held ceremonial value. It's not entirely clear in this clip, but "Clovis culture" is what is known as an archeological culture, that is it is defined by a common set of artifacts. There is an active debate in archeology whether or not shared material culture is indicative of shared culture more generally, particularly when only a small fraction of items are expected to be preserved to present day. Not sure what Flores believes, but it is normal to discuss the wide range of the Clovis archeological culture while remaining skeptical that there was a uniform culture across that range.
Did they replace him with someone that knows about the new evidence of people here way before the Clovis? Just like some of the indigenous people say. They have been here forever. There have been footprints that are said to be dated 23,000 years old and there is proof of humans in the Amazon. We've been lied to this whole time and the Natives were telling the truth. I guess we better give America back
He’s conflating Solutrean and Clovis. Solutrean predated Clovis by 10,000 years and they have found Solutrean type points here in America and they find them under the Clovis technologies. It’s why some are talking about Europeans predating the Asian migration leading to modern day indigenous people. And yeah, they’re trying to bury any evidence supporting the Solutrean Hypothesis’.
Clovis and Folsom points are highly sought after by collectors. Clovis points have been found all over North America. I found my first spear point when I was very young, been hooked on precolumbian artifacts and way of life ever since. Ive found dozens of points since that time that range Mississippian and Woodland period points to early archaic and even a few paleo points and tools that are very old. Relic and artifact collecting is very popular in the US especially in the southeast where you can find native american artifacts laying in farm fields.
When I was growing up in the 90s, our hunting club had a nice display of arrow and spear heads found on the club's tracts of land. And thinking back, MANY of them were fluted Clovis points, and I don't think any of us had any idea how special they were.
The Clovis First theory has been disproven. Also with no proof he presumes the Clovis people were ancestors of modern American Indians. Also, why was it necessary to specify the cowboy was african American? He actually had little to do with the story anyway, so I'm just gonna guess this guy thinks that it's an impressive fact?.
Fascinating. Need to get this individual on more often. Harkens back to old school JRE. Secondly, despite the absurdity of early archeology in America and how much Clovis influenced the discussion, providing a venue to acknowledge early American cultures are appreciated.
We can only ever be sure of one thing. We know next to nothing about anything. A teacher stands in front of a class of 7 years olds and tells them what a teacher told them to be true. Its then accepted as real or fact. Intact its nonsense. I remember questioning a history teacher many years ago about the origins of Stonehenge and The Pyramids. When I asked the teacher.. "how do you know this were you there at the time"? The teacher replied... "Well wgat do you know son"? I replied... "No more than you sir". I rest my case.
Clovis man had a very old settlement that was discovered just West of Houston on the Katy prairie along the Cypress river. When it was discovered it completely shut down the building of the 99 freeway that was under construction. It was discovered from the site they had been trading with other peoples that lived North of around Galveston at the time
I wish he would have a guest that talks about something completely crazy and see what the viewer comments and number of views about the video on something so untrue, that people still believe it..
JRE is one of those podcasts that you always get something new and interesting that you probably haven’t heard of yet and has experts who describe things in a way that everyone can comprehend and grasp! Thanks joe for always being a honest and interesting man that you are brother!!
His theory “Clovis first” is a dated one. People existed in the Americas much before. All the Native Americans, Mayans, and other tribes in South America are legacy culture of the older times. Most of stuff he’s saying is factually incorrect
Yeah he had me until climate change. How do explain the climate change that he opened before pick up trucks?? A fact libtards hate… wildfires and volcanoes produce exponentially higher carbon gasses than all human activity combined. If anything causes greenhouse effects, we know it’s sun darkening amounts of atmospheric smoke.
This is my home town and it’s beautiful to me especially when it rains and that’s rare and the wild flowers come out. Yeah there is nothing for young people to do but to me it wild and beautiful. We have old history around here from dinosaurs to Billy the Kid to Buddy Holly recording here. It may be flat land but it’s vast and to me beautiful . Once thousands of buffalo roamed here and I think of that when I go walking .
@@wagonwheel9426 Not trying to start an argument, but that only applies to British English. Lori is American. And in American English, Buffalo or Bison is acceptable. I'll be here all night if you need help with anything else. :)
Beautiful stone points! One of the hardest points to make! Those Clovis flutes require an INSANE amount of precision flaking. I NEVER managed to pop the flutes off in all my attempts. Could get the edges shaped, but NEVER did i get close to finishing one without shattering a perfectly good piece!
I learned the hard way, that I had been trained to make woodland and archaic points, while the paleo need to be thicker to get through the thick hides. Once I began to leave the points thicker, the shattering stopped. --Also by using indirect percussion on the flutes made for better success. and the key is preparation on the on the bottom strike area & creating channel flakes.
My thought as he mentioned never used blades, was that maybe not ceremonial but a supply to replace a lost or broken one. I was thinking you didn’t make a single blade, you made several over time, maybe even traded, etc.
Having someone like Jamie just bringing up stuff about the conversation without speaking unless being spoken to. Would make any conversation 100000x better. Keep it up
I read somewhere that humans crossed from Russia to Alaska over the yet to flood Bering Strait in 21000 BC and from the people crossing the Bering Strait in Alaska, the first known settlers in Nashville, TN was in 13000 BC so that theoretically it 8000 years to get from the Bering Strait to Nashville. Also, the reason that the Nashville (NHL) Predators are called the Predators is because of the remains of a saber tooth tiger that was found at the arena's site in 1971. That saber tooth tiger was carbon dated to be over 9000 years old.
Mexico’s indigenous DNA genetic has Siberian traces, There’s so much investigation going on in Latin America on the history and philosophy of today’s indigenous and their ancestors. It’s being adapted to counter capitalism’s destructive ideas. Enrique Dussel of México would be a great guest on the podcast to explain this.
The Bering Straight theory has already been debunked. The majority of Natives had already been in the North American continent long before the Bering Straight transmigration might have happened. The majority of the people who populated North America 20,000 years came from the Southern Continent or across the Atlantic Ocean.
The meadowcroft rock shelter, cactus hill virginia, the gault site in texas, and the ancient footprints in new mexico are all evidence of pre-clovis habitation of the americas… the Cerutti mastadon site as well. There are petroglyph sites all around america that date to 12+ thousand years ago. I hope he gets into this. There has only been one clovis burial ever found…. He makes it seem like there is multiple when he speaks of “a burial in montana”.
On the Topic of Native Americans, I am Born of the Choctaw Tribe My Parents always instilled in me we are Not Native to America We are Native of Northeast Asia and I'm Proud of that. Thier is no such thing as Native Americans. Seeing my true Native roots and the struggle my people endured crossing the Bearing Sea bridge makes me proud. Trying to say American Indians are Native to America Is a Slap in the Face to our Ancestors .
@@wompbozer3939 Yeah, but, by him saying; "it was only in America", implies that it was unique to America... unless I misheard him, I'm high af and cbf re-watching haha
I’m high too. Nice to meet other high people for once! I’m pretty sure he meant that the Clovis point is unique to the new world. Not sure if the atlatl evolved in the new world or was transmitted from Eastern Asia via migration routes.
More Dan Flores, please!!!!! I love listening to and learning from academics who possess a natural flair for storytelling. Dan Flores' appearance on Parts Unknown with the late Anthony Bourdain was all too short, it's wonderful to see him speak at length on this show!!!
One of my professors in college had a similar story where they found a prehistoric Bison kill site that would potentially change dates that placed people in Oklahoma earlier than we originally thought.
Folsom groups, also called Folsom peoples or Folsom culture , occupied all of Colorado between about 13,000 and 12,000 years ago. They were not the first people in these areas, although they might have been the first in some newly unglaciated portions of the high Rockies. Had to look it up.
Years ago I found a folsom point while hunting prairie dogs a few miles north of Sterling, CO. There's all kinds of fossils and Native American artifacts in that area. There's literally pieces of worked flint scattered everywhere
I live near the Clovis burial in Montana that was referenced. We do have genonomic data from the burial and it was used to help determine that he was closely related to native people of central and south america who would have come from common ancestry in Siberia. A site nearby was recently discovered with two Clovis camp sites at 11k feet which will be the highest elevation evidence to date.
Funny, the iceman found in the Alps that had been frozen for thousands of years had DNA in a much better preserved state. Scientist claimed the DNA wasn't good enough to make any claims about relationships to present DNA. I've heard that there isn't enough DNA left to do any tests on bones hundreds of years old much less a thousand plus years. So I'm very skeptical about any claims about DNA found and tested that old.
There’s a cultural disconnect because academics rarely talk to Native Americans regarding these things. Flint blades were more than just tools. They were symbols for many things including the spark of life and that which opens our understanding. Talk to Native Americans after reading your academic books for deeper understanding. Or just read academia and think you know what you’re talking about.
I've never learned about any native culture before, what would you suggest? I live in WNY, do you have anything on the federation of tribes there, it could be culture or religion.
Perhaps they weren’t left unused for ceremonial purposes, but for preparation purposes. Stone blades break and wear down so maybe they made ones in advance anticipating one breaking so that they were always prepared.
If the Clovis people were able to overhunt all animals in North America, why didn't Africa or Europe have all its animals extinct? Considering those continents had humans earlier than in North America.
They never said "overhunt ALL animals", they're talking about megafauna. How many offspring can an elephant have in a year, vs animals like rabbits or deer? How long does it take for an elephant to mature to breeding age, compared to smaller animals?
Europe almost did at the end of the ice age. Groups migrated across iceself from Europe to east coast, they found some of their points near the Chesapeake bay. They are called Solutreans or ethnic Japheths I believe.
@jasonbritt2497 Sure they did. Where did you get that information? I mean the Solutreans primarily hunted seals and seabirds. Last time I checked those animals haven't gone extinct
Going to listen to the full podcast during my workout. I am also leaving his book on my wishlist to buy as soon as it is economically feasible for me. Wonderful content!
Yeah there is something about listening to Joe Rogan interview guests about human history being more complex than we thought it was while working out at the gym haha. I do the same. Graham Hamcock, Randall Carlson, fossils of any kind...
@@LK1989 yeah actually music doesnt cut it for me anymore sometimes, need some brain juicing at times with a spice of chill and Joe´s podcasts are perfect for that haha
It is so cool in my retirement to walk the creeks here in the mid-west and find flint arrowheads and clovis points. The time frame of these points are 150 to 10,000 years old.
If only the white man woulda came over to the Americas as visitors and just respect the land It’ll look so beautiful in the Americas especially in Brazil their was gold mountains
Love this stuff. And the most amazing thing is that humans had inhabited the Americas way earlier than 10.000 years ago...there's settlements dating over 15.000 years ago in southern Chile🤯
His point about humans trying to look for excuses so not to blame themselves doesnt stand ground. In fact people back in the day blamed all kinds of natural phenomena like rain in the goodwill of the gods that punished people for behaving incorrectly 😂
Enrique Dussel is the Mile Tyson of philosophy and history, his conferences on the people of the Americas pre invasion and post are relevant. He also has a project on what the world will be like after capitalism’s death with Native American cultural elements. I wish Rogan would have him on
The discovery of the Clovis people and the Folsom people not only revolutionized our understanding of North American history, but also revealed the incredible ingenuity and skill of these early human populations. Their unique fluted points, made from high-quality flint and obsidian, were not only functional tools but also artistic expressions of their culture. It's fascinating to learn that these early Americans, who lived thousands of years ago, had such a deep understanding of their environment and were able to create complex tools that are still admired today. The fact that they spread throughout the continent, from the Southeast to New England, shows the resilience and adaptability of these ancient peoples. The Clovis people's story is a testament to the rich and diverse history of North America, and it reminds us that there is still so much to learn about our ancient ancestors.
@@colecole3352 why do you watch a sport? why do you seek better tasting food when you could enjoy basic shit? why do you even choose to comment something that adds nothing? why do i even reply to it? because we all can. ffs ppl just wanna talk with other ppl who enjoy the same topics.
@@hebber1961 But it does explain a large population of mega-fauna dying off. People hunted them down cause were hungry. Sprinkle in some climate change and boom, no more big stuff - only small herding animals that reproduce quickly.
This just further proves my hypothesis that western stemmed points are the solutrian people that came from Europe around 17-18000 years ago. The predecessor of the clovis people.
@Orange juice I mean Randall Carlson's explanation and evidence makes more sense than "Muh Humans killed all da big animuhls". Why would they kill for just sport and let all that meat go to waste?
I grew up on the coast in Massachusetts about 25 miles north of Boston. There are beaches where pre 1620 North Americans lived at least part of the time for a very long time. Especially after a good storm has churned the sands up in a short period of time looking you can find broken arrowheads, spearheads, pieces of knives. There is one spot where stone nappers would either gather together to work or generations of nappers worked alone, but for many many years, because there are a lot of discarded chips, and half arrow/spear heads/knife blades, where some people had started a project but the the arrowhead broke before completion so was left, discarded as trash. A friend of mine has drawers of chips and pieces she has collected ever since she was a little girl.
Joe. Ask him about the Tartarians. Ever wonder why there is Greco-Roman architecture not only in Greece and Rome, but also in Africa, Russia, United States, South America. In all of the downtowns in all of the major cities of the world. Almost like some kind of civilization reset happened , and we found all these buildings . And Wild people will Ofc set up shop on the ruins left over , A.K.A. “Freemasonry” it was free buildings left over from the worldwide dominate society that came before us.
I understood the Clovis points were found in New Mexico then, in New England and that they matched to points found in caves in France. From this gentleman I guess that was wrong?
The thing is matching arrowheads is pretty easy to do because there is not 15 000 ways to make one There is absolutly no way of contact between the two, and even if there was, there would be evidence to this time of arrow in other parts of the world from point A to point B
A Smithsonian article about the Clovis people stated they likely ceossed a giant landsheet/bridge from SW France to the american continent. This was an important distinction because prior to that point, the consensus was that humans crossed from asia. In fact, the clovis people were in the SE united states and migrated from E to W....not W to E or N to S.
It's probably more appropriate to say the Native Americans are descendants of the Clovis. My guess is they are the original Homo Sapians on North or South America. Not sure for the other Homo species or Neadertals, though.
No way early humans drove all the Pleistocene animals to extinction. The model "docile animals not used to humans" only worked where there were no predators. Such as the large flightless birds on Pacific islands. In north America there were tons of predators like the short faced bear, American lion and tiger. The humans in North America would have a tough time surviving let alone decimating the animal population. I disagree with is theory but Dan has done some amazing work and love hearing him on JRE.
I mean it's crazy, humans were supposedly so primitive but at the same time capable of decimating huge mega mammals to absolute extinction, even though they would be vastly outnumbered. I mean woolly mammoths alone had a reported population of over 10 million and 50 thousand of us killed all of them with pointed flint spears? Killed them so fast they couldn't reproduce in time to avoid extinction? Oh they were scattered, right lol
I love JRE, always fascinating, over my years of learning and seeking facts, I feel early and modern humans have been around hundreds of thousands of years on earth. The truth is so hard to discover in the world. Fear, greed, pride, all the real shitty human emotions and human nature, suppress truth for personal gain of some sort. We all suffer with tainted information and lack of knowledge, while we spend our whole lives uncovering these hidden gems. I say open the truth all up for all, and quit being fearful, humanity needs to worry about killing itself more than any other possible problem we face right now. The truth about everything is the only way that gets all sorted out and we exist, maybe ai is the answer, we'll see.
9:30 what we don’t talk about is portable rock art. Much like the cave art that we find, they created, art on stones that they carried around as well. There’s a whole plethora of examples right at your footsteps, you would not believe that every single hand sized stone that you find in the ground or around your rivers and creeks, are created by human beings… But they are. That’s how far back our human history goes. I beg you, look at your rivers and creeks for birds and faces so that you can learn the truth as uncomfortable as it may be. ❤
