New Study: The Value of Collagen Protein | Educational Video | Biolayne 

I had elbows joint pain that didn't go away for months, once started taking 20g of collagen peptides daily the pain completely gone in weeks and never came back. My skin also looks slighty better. It might be placebo effect but as long as the pain is gone and not coming back i will continue to take it.

Layne, it's worth noting that recent studies suggest it's actually collagen peptides-small molecular weight collagen-that can boost collagen production in skin and connective tissue, not whole collagen. Might be worth revisiting the topic with this in mind!

Hi Layne, just FYI, your opening panel at 00:04 says "Does training time matter when fasting?" vs collagen protein.

Layne, please don't be that guy. The study has no mention of collagen peptides, only collagen, an important distiction because collagen is notoriously hard to digest (it's a proline rich protein like gluten and casein), and we don't know which collagen was provided. Some have as low as 27% absorption rate, while hydrolyzed collagen has 90%+. It would be interesting to see the difference with collagen peptides. Our gut can more easily absorb peptides, dipeptides and even tripeptides than longer chain aminoacids, so it's not like a protein's amino profile is the only metric of its usefulness, its digestibility should be considered. As you know, collagen is our body's most abundant protein (25-35% total protein), our joints are 85-90% collagen, our skin is 70-80% collagen, cartillage is 50%, bones are 30-40% and connective tissue is only 25-35%. Skeletal muscles, on the other hand, are barely 1% collagen, so any study that "debunks" myofibrillar protein synthesis is mostly wasting time. I mean, was there any metric of connective tissue damage during the exercise? Compared to whey protein, collagen is going to suck for muscle protein synthesis. On the other hand, whey protein has barely any glycine and proline compared to collagen (even if they can be obtained from its other aminoacids, it takes effort). So for the purpose of joints, skin, cartillage, bones and connective tissue health, collagen peptides still make a lot of sense.

This study only looks at the acute effect of a single administration of collagen in the MUSCLE connective tissue. It says nothing about the effect of chronic supplementation on joint and cartilage connective tissue.

Layne, you may want to review the research by the folks at Gelita, showing that the molecular weights of specific collagen peptides increases muscle mass and strength in both young and old. They also have a nice study showing that their specific molecular weight peptides also induce multiple protein synthesis pathways when compared to whey protein.

Understanding protein digestion is the reason I was never a believer in collagen peptides. However, because of so many anecdotal reports, I decided I would try collagen peptides. My hair and nails grow faster. My skin complexion looks better. My joints feel ALOT better while lifting and post workout; noticeably better. Due to this, I’ve bought more bovine collagen peptides. I know, it’s my anecdote, but like I said, I “poo pooed” the idea of collagen for years because of my understanding of protein digestion. Now I continue to take 10-20g of collagen peptides a day.

Collagen is absorbed as di and tri peptides, not only as individual amino acids. More substrate also shifts the chemical balance towards the end product and makes it easier to catalyze a chemical reaction.

Yeah. I’ve been doing Collagen for about 3 years. I’m 55 and I don’t suffer from any joint pain at all. I’m a plumber by trade and I go to the gym on a regular basis. Since I’ve been using Collagen, that has been my experience and I’m sticking to it. You have a lot to say for a “one study” results….

You were immediately critical of collagen supplements when they came out? Dude, I remember seeing them at GNC in 1992...when you were 10 years old. Props to you being that knowledgeable so young!

I took collagen alongside whey when after my surgeries. The incision closed fast and my muscle mass did not decrease as much during recovery

Ive used collegen protein daily for about 2 years in conjunction with omega 3 and glucosamine supplementation. Ive found the omega 3 to be the most effective for joint health but noticed the collegen has done wonders for my skin. I'll continue using collegen for the skin benefits alone.

I was skeptical of collagen but started taking it for skin, nail, and hair health to see if there was any difference. It has dramatically improved all three. Like with creatine, repetition over time is the key. For the benefits and cost, throwing 10g a day into a shake is easy and well worth it.

Collagen peptides have strong evidence for anti-aging at this point, particularly with collagen retention and growth in the deep layers of the skin. If you want to look good then it's worth taking even if there isn't a muscle building benefit.

I make my own beef broth from grass raised beef bones. You can see a thick layer of cologne that rises to the top. Velvety texture, great flavor etc. I suggest making your own.

I’ve been taking 15g of bovine collagen peptides. I’m injury prone, and have been training for a marathon. I’m doing the most running volume I ever did, and no injuries, no knee pain, nothing. Its doing something for sure.

Really respect your scientific approach. I know the video was looking at collagen supplements for connective tissue - but as you mentioned early on, many women are taking collagen for hair, skin and nails - more of a beauty aspect. Any thoughts on that either way? Thx always.

The study participant were young also study was very small, n=45. Do you think we would similar results in an older population where collagen synthesis is reduced. Also how is it we see studies which show improved joint pain and mobility and improved skin elasticity with collagen supplementation if supplementation does not impact collagen synthesis?

Did the study account for vitamin c intake as well. I’ve heard through some sources that it’s needed for collagen synthesis/production so just wondering about that and your take on if that’s true or not

Once again Lame misses the mark. Collagen has not been positioned for muscle mass in the marketplace. There is plenty of supporting research for skin quality / health.

I take collagen along with NAC. collagen is very high in glycine and when you combine glycine and NAC it boosts the levels of glutathione in the body. It’s basically my own version of the supplement Glynac except it’s not as expensive. I’m nearing the age of 50 so it’s important for me to keep my glutathione levels up.

What about for skin health theres seems to be good study’s for tht

Hi Layne, the background in the intro does not match the videos content

Wow, one whole study

Isn't that in reality what the overwhelming majority of beef protein isolate on the market are in reality just beef collagen protein going by a different name?

DOC please do a video on the dangers of Raw Fruitarian diets for children. There are children who are being forced to participate in this diet and no doctor seems to be willing to speak out against it.

My entirely anecdotal, and totally unscientific opinion is that for some people eating collagen protein promotes good digestive health, not necessarily that the protein itself is useful, or that the connective tissue growth is happening, but that eating collagen protein creates a state in the body which is good for other processes, the most common one I hear about as a trainer is improved sleep. And improved sleep is absolutely one of the most anabolic things you can do. Interested to see more research and data about this

Since we know Vitamin C stimulates collagen production, it would be interesting to see them do a study where they add 1000 mg or so of Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to the collagen protein to see if it may be the missing link to stimulate connective tissue synthesis. And then have another group take just the 1000 mg of Vitamin C *without* the collagen protein to see if it stimulates the same amount of connective tissue production on its own (perhaps rendering the collagen protein supplement worthless). And of course a placebo group as well.

This guy clearly didn't do his homework. Hydrolyzed collagen is not a big protein and it's also not a single aminoacid but di- and tripeptides. Also, hydrolyzed collagen has been shown to improve skin collagen levels

Dr Rhonda Patrick mentioned some studies which showed collagen peptides are absorbed and end up in connective tissues of studied animals, I think mice. Peptides were traced somehow and they were built into joints etc. We don’t have such a study in humans unfortunately, it would be too invasive and non etical to intake radioactive collagen and then again have radioactive screening 🫨

What if I take a bath in my collagen protein powder? /s

I get the argument about protein being broken down and the body building its own proteins but supposedly the idea is that certain amino acids tend to be quite low in a lot of protein sources (relative to total protein content) while being found in large amounts in collagen, such as glycine and proline. If you are eating very large amounts of protein, in particular animal protein (like g/lb of BW which is actually more than what you need to maximize protein synthesis), then collagen probably wouldn't make a difference. Also, we need to exercise in order to stimulate the production of collagen in a given joint and then it's just a question of whether the body has the building blocks it needs. This is kind of similar to the BCAA situation - if you are getting low amounts of them from your diet supplementation makes a difference but otherwise it doesn't

Weren’t there some studies that showed improvements for skin health with collagen peptide supplementation?

So how to I strengthen my tendons

Outcome of the study often depends on who ordered them. All I know is I had cracking, painfull knees and after drinking 30grams of gelatine daily for over 2 years, my knees feel like I was a teenager again

For Lane.

You should define what “collagen protein” is. It doesn’t sound like you’re talking about natural foods high in collagen, this is just collagen supplements which is defined as what? Ground up animal hooves, correct?

Damn man... you didn't bother to research it even slightly deeper than the surface. Research the latest clinical data on higher intake of Glycine, Lysine, Proline, Hydroxyproline and how 10g of Glycine a day can upregulate collagen synthesis by 200%. Not to mention the importance of having a high vit C intake which is mission-critical for collagen synthesis. Also, the importance of Glycine for anti-aging, brain health, etc. None of these things were addressed in the study you referenced.

I take collagen for skin collagen synthesis. There is some research showing that collagen somehow support skin collagen. I would like to hear more about that.

Hi Layne! Are you aware of any nutritional or pharmaceutical pathway that actually does improve connective tissue synthesis?

I confess I’ve been using collagen protein powders for a couple of years now out of desperation. All my gains in the gym are held back by joint pain and tendinitis. I’m still struggling with all the same symptoms. I guess I’ll redirect that money towards a physical therapist that actually knows something about sports… The doctor makes good sense.

I really hoped this video said it would work. I don't take it but I could really use something that helps with my joints and tendons. It really holds me back and nothing I do works. I just develop problems literally everywhere and I'm training less hard or heavy than even the women and children at my gym. And ive had physical therapy for like 15 years straight now and every godamn test done on me and I know how to train and eat and it still doesn't matter. And I'm only 37 and been dealing with this since I was like 20.

Where is the link to the study? Not your commentary, the actual study. Otherwise this should be considered nothing more than another advertisement.

I purchased collagen on a whim at the store because I was waiting on my restock of my plant based skin hair and nails powdered greens. This was before I even know collagen was a thing here on RU-vid. I took it as directed and about a week or 2 in the knee pain that bothered me for 9 months was gone. I went to my stylist and she noticed immediately my hair was denser. That’s all I know. I know you want to sell that processed whey of yours but collagen peptides for the win buddy.

It's an assessment of myofibrillar and muscle connective protein synthesis rates following a single exercise session, a single dose of protein, and a single 5-hour recovery period. Other studies have found a variety of benefits over time in both humans and animals of all ages (versus the 15 25-year-olds per group in this study) and across a variety of use cases. I can't access the full paper and don't know whether the collagen protein used was bovine, marine, porcine, or chicken sourced, but that can have its own effect.

Was the study Type 2 Collegen? Studies have shown type 2 as beneficial to connective tissue.

I use a scoop of collagen powder in my morning protein shake only for vanity reasons….makes my skin look a little better 💪🏼😅

For Layne!

He seems like a nice and smart guy but I love that his followers use critical thinking and call him out in the comment section. He needs to look at proper studiea on collagen peptides if he wants to try and "debunk" anything. This feels like he really is lacking or ignoring a lot of the new research and misleading his listeners. 98k views, 600+ comments but only 24 likes. The numbers don't lie.

What about for skin health? I've been taking 11g per day and it's done a bit to firm up my skin quite a bit

What a way to promote your own supplement line. How about you post a video about benefits of collagen supplementation and wrinkles, joint healtk, skin and hair ?

I just started taking collagen peptide about a week ago because I've been suffering from tendonitis in both elbows and forearm and triceps tendon for about a month and a half and after a week of taking collagen peptide along with vitamin C and isometric exercises I am finally starting to feel better and not in pain....so I don't know,...seems to work to me

1st time not commenting for Al but fot Layne 😂

Follow up question, is there anything one could take to stimulate connective tissue synthesis/ health ?

The argument made by various collagen promoters is that unlike most dietary proteins, certain forms of collagen are absorbed intact by the small intestine. The fibrous structure of collagen supposedly makes it resistant to the denaturing conditions of the stomach, contasting with most enzymes (globular proteins). This was the only plausible point that the dermatologists and other collagen promoters were raising when I was trying to understand why people insist that collagen supplements do anything special despite the obvious issue of denaturation/proteolysis that you explained.

While I don't expect collagen supps to work, I'm curious if the stimulus was sufficient. For instance, were subjects doing something like kneesovertoesguy's knee program? Was it done over long enough period to see results?

You said the proteins are broken down into di- and tripeptides but then went on in the same breath to say that that means the body only sees individual amino acids. That is unsound logic, you haven’t established the breakdown of the peptides into individual amino acids in your argument. You assumed it and moved on. Now I’ve seen other videos speak about studies (I haven’t looked at them myself) that say that peptides can and do survive in the gut and are absorbed into the bloodstream, specifically in regard to collagen peptides. So is the body absorbing the collagen peptides after it is denatured? Or is it always and only broken down into individual amino acids? If peptides are absorbed, what’s the prevalence of that occurring over complete denaturation? Furthermore could this detail be related to the lack of effectiveness of supplementing pure leucine vs leucine-rich foods? Maybe it needs to be in peptide form to stimulate the anabolic response in the muscles.

The screenshot of the study doesn't specify if they are using hydrolysed collagen. Seems to be an important detail that they've left out?

Look up "Vitamin C-enriched gelatin supplementation before intermittent activity augments collagen synthesis" - thoughts?

Always love getting the straight scoop from Layne! Much appreciated!

What type of Collagen did the study use? Was it hydrolyzed? Collagen is high on Glycine which seems to be a contributing factor to the body's own Collagen synthesis, not sure if that has been established in any study though.

Man I’ve been drinking that booger tasting stuff for nothing? 🤦‍♀️

Yeah, we knew all along. Good that is supported by studies

Collagen does improve skin health though

There is a bit of evidence for collagen protein helping with skin and perhaps hair too since skin seems to be made out of both connective tissue and epithelial tissue, and hair all or mostly connective tissue, so the question is does collagen protein increase epithelial tissue synthesis?

What about collagen for skin elasticity though? If it tightens skin during weight loss, that makes it worth taking.

Did the study indicate which collagen type was used? Other studies have shown it does help with connective tissue but only type 2 collagen. Furthermore, while it’s not great for building new muscle, collagen does help with nitrogen balance which reduces protein turnover so you aren’t losing muscle mass.

DO IT FOR LAYYYYNEEE!!!

What about the skin health application for collagen peptides? I think that's been the biggest selling point lately.

For Layne

Comment for the Layne Norton!

I feel like the focus on leucine ignores the value of other aminos, and it’s also implied that no other protein will be consumed the entire day. Do you feel like stirring collagen in your coffee is the only protein that will be consumed all day long?

“High glycine concentration increases collagen synthesis by articular chondrocytes in vitro: acute glycine deficiency could be an important cause of osteoarthritis”

Hey Layne, And what about benefits for skin, hair and nails? Is it worth it or no?

Besides taking a blend of amino acids, hydrolyzed collagen peptides is the only protein powder my IBS body tolerates. Literally every other type, form, derivative, causes very unpleasant side effects. So I’m hopeful it’s doing something, otherwise it’s just very tasty added to Greek yoghurt. 😋

Perhaps placebo, but I've had significant improvements in mobility where I can finally do deep squats and hip rotations without snap, crackle and pop along with significant pain. PT for long period of time didn't succeed until I finally added the Collagen Peptides. In addition, I'd been struggling with NAFLD, taking NAC along side Collagen Peptides for the Glycine has greatly improved my liver markers over the last year. Even if Collagen Peptides do not increase muscle mass during strength/resistance training, I still find the other affects to be significant in my own life.

Thanks for covering this! There are a lot of rock climbers who take collagen thinking it will aid in finger strength gains. I will be sure to point them here. P.S. You guys may have accidentally used an incorrect title slide. @biolayne

However the study does not specify if thy use collagen or collagen peptides 🤔

Anyone who knows the answer to this: are collagen peptides and collagen hydrolisate supplements te same thing? There are enormous price differences between brands

I recommend looking at another video which came out around the same time which looks at this study and more "New Study Shows Collagen Doesn’t Work? Controversial!" By Dr Brad Stanfield which takes into account a broader view of current research rather than focusing on one study which was not clear on whether it was collagen or collagen peptides

So, is there any way to stimulate connective tissue stimulus? How about glucosamine? Thanks.

Can you please make a video on NMN? A bunch of youtubers say it doesn't work according to studies, and a bunch of youtubers say it does work. I took NMN for a year, 750ml, and my recovery did improve, plus I felt sharper every time I took it. I took NMN under the tongue. When I mixed it with water, I felt nothing.

so what supplements do you recommend for us aging folks with joint and connective tissue issues?

However, there are several meta studies that show a benefit for skin elasticity and appearance.

Hi Layne, what is the method for detecting connective tissue synthesis? I was just wondering as connective tissue seems to take so long to heal compared to muscle tissue, Im surprised its easy to pick up. I would imagine its a slow but consistent process and hence not that easy to detect an uptick?. I have no idea. Just asking.

Let me say this about that. It is my understanding that the subject at hand has more to do with it than it doesn't. Therefore, I strongly stand by my statement for the algorithm.

This is too short a video to cover collagen. Too many questions and other studies not covered here.

Where's the link to the study?? Only type 2 helps connective tissue not others

For the BioLayne 🤩🥰💪🫶😁😎👌🥸🤓🥳🫡

If you've already stocked up on collagen, would adding it to Whey protein have any additive benefits since the Whey has the leucine?

because Layne said so

Can someone please post a link to the study

Why would anyone take collagen for muscle synthesis?

Didn't you say in the Huberman podcast that you would never sell supplements to avoid any risk of conflict of interest ? Apparently integrity and sticking to one's word is a very rare thing these days ...

Shouldn't the study have had a third group taking neither protein? Maybe collagen and whey increased connective tissue synthesis equally.

nobody uses it for connecting tissue, they use it for skin health

You told me to leave a comment, here it is

Where is the study? And what type of collagen was used?

Nice work! Is there an effect of collagen on the skin?

What should we eat instead of Collagen for connective tissue health?