I used to do tzhaars with a Rune halberd (couldent finish the quest for dragon) for weeks on weeks, farming those obby drops.. It for sure needs a buff so it can be "used" again :)
i think the interesting part of elemental damage bonus is that while uninteresting at content you already mage at, it'd encourage you to mage other stuff, like fire giants being weak to water gives you another avenue to train magic rather than just ranging/meleeing them
It changes the meta hardcore. Elemental spells now scale up to the highest spell, so a water bolt will hit a 12 max hit the second you unlock firebolt at level 35. Throw the Chaos Gloves on and that's a 15 for waterbolts, given you do family Crest which takes 55 magic and a magic potion to boost to 59. Double it by hitting fire giants and you're now hitting 30s with a mist staff (currently 90k) and a chaos rune (currently around 70 coins) at only level 55 magic with a level 23 spell. And Fire Giants can be safe spotted.
I think if they go through with the elemental stuff, leaving it in just magic would be a little lame. My friend and I got into OSRS a while ago, last time we played was like 15+ years ago and we were never members before. But we're pretending we have classes and going more into the RP of it all. He's a mage and I'm a dude that throws knives. Slayer masters keep telling me it's weak to crush or it's weak to magic and I'm like 'nah, it's weak to knives'. But what I've seen so quickly is that magic is already the best way to progress an account. We played all the f2p quests then went members after elvarg. His magic destroyed elvarg and as a ranger, I was limited to just the bronze xbow and bolts. So my fight was pretty rough, granted I was also well under the level requirement lol. After the switch to members, I started out DPSing my friend, knives don't hit high numbers but the speed is crazy. But if they add elemental advantage into exclusively magic, it would be shitty for anyone who wants to play a non magic main. I want water, fire, earth, air, enchanted knives
@@nifegun Sorry to say friend but Runescape's entire MO is having no true classes, anyone can do anything and everything. That's like the core value of the game. You didn't play as a member so the prospect of 99 was never there. As a member the max cape is essentially just one of your goals. You're intended to use all the things are your disposal and if you choose to limit yourself you're actively gating yourself from content. Like being a pure.
@toolittletoolate oh I fully understand that, but allowing your player to do everything doesn't mean there needs to be a heavy meta of single ways to do everything. That's what's been irking me on my journey of OSRS. I keep running into people who think runescape isn't supposed to be fun lol. I'm not by any saying all methods should be equally effective, but that non meta methods should be at least somewhat viable and new mechanics like real elemental attacks done need to be locked into just magic. Magic is already arguably the most important skill in the game, giving it even more exclusive new stuff is weak sauce. As for limiting myself, bro, I am well aware, but to me this is a fantasy RPG and the role I'm playing is a character that whenever possible, solves the problem by throwing knives and I'm loving it. Hell come play along on stream some time haha. I don't care that my damage is pretty much capped until I can afford to be throwing dragon knives and that there's no upgrades after that, when I eventually get to vorkath, he's dying to knives, just like every slayer task I've done so far lmao
Would the D scim feel like an iconic unlock? Yes. While also making the Dragon longsword and Dragon mace useful as there is absolutely zero reason why anyone should use them at the moment.
After several ironmen accounts, dscim is honestly oppressive. I want to use other weapons but it outcompetes all others at the same level it's nuts. Currently doing one where I'm going for the giant sword, fuck dscim
Agree that Ranged would be better served by having - Piecing (Darts, arrows, bolts, thow knives) - Rending (Broad bolts, Brutal arrows, thown axes, chakram-style weapons) - Bludgeoning (cannonballs (?), chinchompas, new slingshots)
needles monk fighting style. I mean beers already pseudo do drunk fighting style. Now seriously throwing knives are a ungraded nail gun, just manual. What next having auto loaders on crossbow bow like a dark bow spec. Exist in real life why not.
I agree with you on everything BUT, I don't think they'd touch cannons. I love them, but they are pretty OP at low levels and are very supplemental at higher levels.
I really like your ideas on how the currently preposed changes for magic would play out. Just having a buff to water spells feels the same as using a powered staff. What if water spells has a small aeo splash damage, fire spells burned (tick damage) to things weak to burn, earth spells rooted briefly and air did something cool as well. That would be a lot more fun to play with.
What I enjoyed here the most was your unique takes & concerns I haven't heard anyone bring up. They're genuinely good points that shouldn't be overlooked.
im constantly annoyed by this comparison because they last time they changed the combat "this much" they changed the entire genre of the game which is a whole different beast than making the game slightly more diversified.
Bro you're comparing apples and oranges. This is nothing compared to eoc. Current RS3 combat is fine, but eoc in 2012 was absolute dogshit and it wasn't anywhere close to what runescape was prior. I don't know if you played, but these osrs combat changes are nothing compared to eoc. On the other side though, RS3 devs tried a very similar thing osrs are trying to do here. The players hated it and jagex decided to shelve the entire thing. Hopefully osrs does it better.
@@chachuy3221 well if i only heard it once it would be fine but i hear it like 100+ times a day through clannies and friends which is where the annoyance comes from
Yeah I think the magic rebalance is more of an intuitive design. Can’t tell you how many times as a kid I switched to fire spells for ice warriors/ moss giants thinking it did extra
Quality video. I always hated how fast hitting weapons constantly outperform slow hitting ones pretty much all the time because they don't do enough extra damage to compete. There is absolutely no reason for a dragon 2h sword to have similar DPS as an Adamant Scimitar only edging out because of accuracy. Slower weapons really need to be brought in-line to make it a matter of preference between slow big hits, or faster small hits. Otherwise the weapon sandbox will continue to live and die on their special effects or be a 4 tick weapon.
They should rework smithing entirely and allow you to do smithing engravings on weapons or something to boost them in some way and then allow you to stack 4-5 more on two handed weapons.
You're asking them to fundamentally change the basic concept that makes the game what it is. I'm not arguing against it, I'm just making sure you understand what you're doing.
@@toolittletoolate I wouldn't go that far, it would fundamentally change how players interact with the sandbox, sure, but the game itself would remain largely the same. The 25-45% DPS gap between fast and slow weapons of the same level has always been too much. I don't think bringing neglected weapon types up from being misleadingly bad changes the core of the game, if anything it strengthens the RPG part of MMORPG.
@@koenwijnen8278 You're right, I don't understand because its a dumb statement. How does an Elden Ring balance patch "fundamentally change the basic concept of the game" just because some weapons are now more viable. It doesn't, and this is no different.
@@DumpsterDude420 yeah, and the player count reflects that totally. we're all the idiots, and youre the one genius levitating above the rest of us surely
Totally agree. EOC took the game to another level. Just look at the dev team size and dedication to building rs3. Osrs could really benefit from the addition of EOC. Sure the game may lose alot of its player base but they could always just add more monetization to offset the losses. I'm tired of playing osrs and thinking "if this game was more like WOW I'd enjoy it more" and I know alot of you think "just go play wow idiot" but sometimes I just want to play another game just like wow but not wow. Player numbers and success doesn't mean the game is better. Just look at games like Star wars galaxies. They released their own bold new update which made the game far better. It may have died but it finally became a good game. Hopefully this comment makes sense and honestly if you dont agree you are simply wrong. Osrs major success will eventually be its downfall especially if it keeps growing.
So much controversy when Its just a game we all like to play I just don't like rs3 because I grew up with osrs started my acc in 04 and it was my favorite thing to do, when it changed I just didn't have fun like I used to, but osrs brought that fun back for me
My brother, you will do AMAZING no matter which niche, game, or topic you decide to cover. Great analysis and commentary covering the recent changes. + You've got great video production/organization of information skills, again I think you will go far no matter what you do :D
I truly enjoyed your style of video here & how you formatted this. Great editing skills & a awesome weather show host type voice makes this pleasant to listen to. Glad I've found you channel
I HAVE GOT TO SAY BRO YOU HAVE THOURGLY EXPLAINED EVERYTHING SO METHODICALLY. Saying that stuff that had light ranged defense vulnerability SHOULD have every other because if light can pierce it, why not heavy? This is incredible because lets be rreal, all of our weapons are made with logicality, blowpipe is a real thjng in thw word and breathing to shoot would make it significantly faster. Than drawing backa. Bow to shoot. Jagex needs to hire people like you for philosophical weapon creation. This is hardcore logical shit right here. You NEED to start making reviews of updates in depth like this. Amazing.
Thank you appreciate it. I did wonder if maybe a fast mob could dodge heavy ammo and not light because it’s too fast. Throwback to the shaikahan needing a (kp) spear or an agility potion in that quest
@@spicymilkosrs Yeah so a fadter attacking monster would be able to dodge heavy attacks more, but that would just calculate out to their individual defense towards the style you know. Not sure how many monsters attack faster than others, but would be interesting to see. I dount jagex would try to make that much sense out of it though and would just randomlyish give def bonus to certain monsters for whatever range attack they considered for the monster individually.
I have faith in the devs. I don't think in the slightest this is EOC all over again, the game thrives off community and we all know that. I think this is good groundwork to open up the game and future content without having to nerf/buff things to make them in line with new content
Tbf, if the current rs3 combat came out back in 2012, osrs would not exist. EOC had its purpose. 😂 Jokes aside, I think osrs devs will figure it out. Even if they make a few mistakes, they'll just correct them. They know not to mess with the player base too much.
Honestly while i think there's a looong path ahead with plenty of changes to be implemented, the team is already facing a *lot* of skepticism with changes this small. Some people simply hate change and will stand in the way for progress, so it's important to play around that, even if we really do need major overhauls in many areas.
I have a solution with the powered staves. Releasing elemental based crystals as a boss drop for specific staffs or raids to imbue the staff with fire water earth or air based damage and keep the rune consumption the same
A level 1 mage and a level 99 should not have the same max hit for any spell. Melee same weapon level 99 hits harder, ranged same weapon same ammo level 99 hits harder.
I think with magic, the changes to the original spellbook are good overall. I like the idea with monsters being weaker to different types of magic, and your suggestion that different armours enhance them, so that'd be a nice addition. The issue with the system is, well, powered staves are a thing. Trident of the Seas, Iban's Staff, etc. all make the base spells fairly redundant (not that those I listed are the best in slot) simply due to the utility and ease of it all powered with the spellbook spells that you can use. Personally, I wouldn't have added them into the game to begin with, but it's way too late to take them out. I think, if done very carefully, you could limit access to the higher utility in the spellbook if using a powered staff. I know how this sounds, and I get it's not an ideal solution, but that would give the players a choice. Do you want utility, or do you want easy damage. You can get both if you use, say, fire strike, trading off the higher damage for access to damage and the better utility. Basically, with a powered staff you'd get access to the weaker snares and such, whereas with the standard spells you'd get access to the max level snare (granting you have the level) and less damage. I like having the choice between these two, I love having options and needing a reason to use them. That's what I personally want from a game, but I also know that I'm of my own opinion and it isn't necessarily popular with the community as a whole. Either way, I like the changes they're proposing. I WANT to use halberds, they're my favourite kind of weapon, but they're so bad compared to a whip for instance. I want to use a mace, a battleaxe, all the obscure wepaonry, but they're so niche in their usage that I barely even bother unless it's a requirement. The range changes I like as well, however, they'd need to be monitored closely during testing and release (if they go ahead with it) as there can be potential balance problems.
8:15 Actually, some irl armour in the middle ages and even today works better against light projectiles moving faster or against heavier projectiles moving slower. So it's possible!
Personally, I'm fine with the four elements doing the same damage, but think elemental spells could be differentiated as follows. When hitting an enemy with an elemental weakness, you have an X% chance to gain a different bonus based on the element itself. Air - x% chance to hit three times with reduced accuracy Water - x% reduction in enemy attack speed, rounded down to the nearest game tick. Earth - x% armor shred, increasing the damage taken from all attacks (good for group bossing) Fire - deals x% periodic damage with a burn debuff.
A lot of this effects irons. Mains are mostly nmz or sand crab machines to 99 then do boss/raids. Back in the day your options were unlock d scimitar for str training and pick up a whip for att/def and its still pretty much the same. On the range side you could be on to something. Change it to piercing, enchanted and explosive damage. Piecing is all your normal darts/knives etc Enchanted would be any ammo infused with magic which could lead to new arrows/javelins. This could also play off a monsters magic def Explosive you would have chins/ cannon. As far as magic goes give the mages book utility like book of the dead. Maybe give it a bonus depending on the charged staff its used with standard spell book. We have the charge spell in standard spellbook that requires mage cape to be worn for the boost so why not some sort of spell that works with empowered staves on the normal spell book
In my mind it makes sense how they have ranged proposed to be split if you're going by ammo size rather than weapon size; If you're fighting something with intricate armor with only tiny gaps or anything equivalent light would be best there; If you've got someone relatively unarmored or armor that's weak to like blunt force then heavy would be good; If you've got sort of a middle ground where tiny would be less effective than outright arrows/bolts but can deal with blunt force;
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉 You just got a sub my dude! Great content and good constructive conversation over the combat updates, thank you for sharing. Looking forward to your future videos!
@@tetee6789 Not a bot comment. Just a supportive one. The dude has less than 1k subs and this video actually laying out the new combat changes to OSRS while analyzing them and going over potential flaws or short sightings within said system. I couldn't think of anything else to add that he didn't already cover so I just decided to leave a supportive comment.
I think making the different elements balanced with each other does add flavor to combat and preparation despite it not adding much mechanically which I think is part of what they are going for. To me it’s just a simple addition of variety, and having context for why you are using a specific spell helps with immersion.
For us UIM players, if they're gonna make us need a bunch of different weapons, they'd better give some sort of option to store them in your house, only needs to have 1 slot for each damage type so it doesn't make it too easyscape for us.
I would definitely prefer them to tune things a little bit to diversify the weapon roles a little bit. The balance amongst the weapon archetypes is really strange atm imo
Simple explanation for why light would be more effective then heavy in some cases would be light not full penetrating through the target lol heavy could just go in and pop out the other side.
i think it wuld be awesome if the spells give buffs/debuffs instead of extra dmg, like you can burn some enemies witrh fire fire spells, earth blinds some enemies decreasing their accuracy maybe water spells prevent dmg from dragon breaths air could maybe lower some monsters defence or something else of course
This shouldn't have to be big changes but some are just very logical. Like elemental magic attacks should have a bonus on various monsters. Fire blast should be able to burn spiderwebs. Crush weapons should be able to kill gargoyles. Niece weapons like an halberd should have a bigger gimmick.
osrs is a pure dps calc. you use light bearer as an example of fun mechanics rather than focusing solely on dps like with a ult ring for example, but the troll part is that lb is simply still higher dps at a lot of places lol unfortunately, all that cool stuff you listed about magic isnt useful anywhere in combat really. sure as a noob I would toss a vulnerability on zulrah during my blowpipe grind but it was niche and useless overall lol. I think adding gear like split bark for earth damage like you showed is the better direction to take these elemental changes.
1:22 interesting you used a charged scythe here and an uncharged tumekens shadow, I've never seen a clear pic of an uncharged shadow before it looks cool without the black orb
Great video, I'm glad jagex is trying to change up some stuff and I think they could easily add some great things in the near future. Not counting KQ or Nightmare, when will there be a profitable and FUN boss weak to crush? They have rightfully tweaked things like the fang and Dragon hunter weapons and a few other to make sure things aren't too OP where they shouldn't be, but there are a few combat styles completely neglected, I guess mainly crush obviously. Not saying this out of complaining but more pointing out how they could at least take crush and run with it for a little bit so more weapons are used in different places! Maybe add new mechanics like a boss that is weak to fast melee attack speed or something where certain mage elements like fire outshine things like the shadow. They have a lot of potential and i'm really excited to see where they go with things. I think the mechanics they added for varlamore content was cool, but it's a shame how they teed up perilous moons as "higher defense is better" when you can just run max melee instead. I know i know, it's supposed to be a mid level boss and I'm not sure how mid level gear plays out, but it was such a great idea and I hope they use it again in the future! Not just bosses were you need to focus defense more, but even more unique gear that gives unique defenses bonuses would be cool!!
I agree with the take at about 6 minutes in on overtuneing. It would be much less fun if you had to use a certain weapon instead of choosing the certain weapon because it’s more optimal.
I think that the elemental weaknesses add to the fantasy element of things, but I also agree that it's very much just changing out a single rune and the spells are al of a sudden the same. Maybe if there were more uniqueness to the different elements already, slowing attack speed on water, staggering chance on earth, a burn effect on fire or something like that. Definitely not the brightest ideas by me, but if the spells weren't just the same spel but with 4 skins every time, it could work. What I'm thinking here is to not have air, water, earth and fire surge. But that the elemental spells aren't just x amount of tiers with all elements. It would require a complete overhaul of the standard spellbook however, so it's probably way too much work for what they're proposing. But I do think more elemental weaknesses add to the fantasy of it all. But the difference should never be so large thatwhen fighting other players all of a sudden your fire spells are useless because of fire resistance or something like that. More gear that specialize in different elements would also be needed. But feel like these things should be more for the flavor than for balancing gameplay.
I'll just have to disagree with about half of your takes. "Don't want to turn the game into a dps calculator" but it already is, It just has less options. "Don't want to turn gear into a check list" But it already is, it just has less options.
Maybe this is a hot take but uh, fuck the d scim lol while I value and cherish the time I've spent with it, I also think it would be pretty cool for the other weapon types to have more of a place in the game
I saw comments about the range weak to light vs not heavy thing, apparently there's some suspension of disbelief needed here example, the monster is too agile so it dodges your heavy attack (even though this isn't shown or said) so fast light weapons are more effective... something like that. Yeah idk about that as well, if the heavy weapon hits that monster is toast
Surely if the proclaimed magic changes go through then the meta will just become wind spells everywhere for invy spots, if monsters magic defense remains unchanged par the weakness to certain element types anyway, I guess there's probably something to be said for the tome of water/fire though. Certainly interesting but not sure if it's for better or for worse as of yet
For the standard spell book attacks, they can make a minigame pop up similar to giants foundry. Where you can have a premade order ie earth, water, air, fire. Or eath, air, air And it multiplies the max hit by like 7% and increases the accuracy by about 20%
I’ve recently been thinking that the dragon claws, or maybe even an upgrade to the dragon claws, could be like a melee style toxic blowpipe. Like just add an animation where the player attacks with post claws, one after another, same speed as the blow pipe.
Wow, this is much higher quality than the viewcount would suggest, good stuff man. I think there were multiple great points in here but my personal main takeaway was what you said about enemy defense stats. I totally agree that adding defense stats too high on normal mobs to where using the wrong type of weapon is never advised would turn the game into a wiki/dps calculator, and on non boss enemies it wouldn’t really add any depth since your just changing what stat stick you hit enemies with, there’s no real functional difference. With that being said I hope we as a community can continue to express our concerns to Jagex about the update and receive answers from them about solutions they have in mind. A large scale rebalance coming out undercooked is the worst possible outcome.
Only reason i don't want this change is occult nerf, i just got it on my iron.. Now the magic upgrades are locked behind 1k hour grind to get back to same level.
Honestly, why doesn’t Magic have the capability to boost a melee weapon? You can enchant bolts, why not provide a temporary enchant to your main hand weapon to have both elemental and slash/stab/crush damage?
I feel another way they could change the range ammo thing, and even using the crush style on a gargoyle etc is make a % accuracy/damage modifier (similar to slayer helm but weaker) if using the correct style, so you're not nerfing any weapon, or buffing a monsters defense stats but rewarding the correct optimization... Another theory to try bring the normal spell book, is there could be a reward for casting multiple different elemental spells on the same target, which would encourage usage of other spells which seems to be what they're after? hmm just a thought. Nice video and discussion :)
I agree with the remark about ranged ammunition styles. I think with regards to ranged they should follow Runescape and do thrown/arrow/bolt weakness rather than light/medium/heavy since it makes no sense to have something to be weak against 'light' or 'heavy ammunition. I disagree with your remark about the dragon scimitar though. The only reason it is iconic, and an achievement to get, is due to it's original stats. There's no palpable reason why a tier 60 slash weapon should outperform other higher level weapons which posess greater stats and are harder to obtain just because of how OSRS combat favours weapons of a higher attack speed, and that at levels 1-70, slash weapons outcompete other melee styles due to higher strength bonus (no real reason why this should be) and lack of style specific weakness (this means the weapon with the most dps is the best weapon for everything). The current training meta for the longest time has always been scimitars from levels 1-70, then abyssal whip 70+ for nearly every slayer creature. Introducing monster weaknesses, and buffing other melee weapons to bring it up to the same level of utility as the scimitar class is the right thing to do in my opinion - there's no reason why the dragon scimitar needs to be iconic or remain the best due to stat imbalance, nostalgia, or simply because it used to be. OSRS developers have taken some right steps recently with buffing crush styles (increased attack speed for maces and higher str bonus for warhammers) and stab styles (spears and hastae now attack every 2.4 s), but there's still work to be done.
i think the move is buffing the dmg when using "correct" dmg types. like oh they're weak to crush? Let's not just make it accurate Let's give that an inherent str bonus of idk 10-5%? I wouldn't think across the board, it would need variation. This kind of mitigates over optimizing to where you cannot use other weapons, it rewards low-level players for obtaining the right kind of weapon, compensating for being lower level. In my opinion that is the best way to give melee weapons more significance. I like your proposal for ranged weapons light vs heavy. Darts shouldn't really do the same thing as heavy ballista javelin. So controlling the ammo type. Magic doesn't need a buff in my opinion, though, I get what they're really trying to do. "Level it out", and add the elemental buffs, which is all that is needed in my eyes. I can also see why this doesn't make it way more engaging, and kind of adds a layer of monotony. It feels like a super safe play rather than leaning into the magic. I am not sure I agree that the staves are a problem, I see their use and utility. Great video man
