COMEBACK? Honda Stuck in PARK! 

The follow-ups may be frustrating but the videos are among the most interesting!

You're still a hero if you explain to the customer that the bad switch started working again and you eliminated the chance of that happening again. Good repair and thanks for doing the right thing and eating the cost.

What is the world coming to when Ivan is watching his own videos to make a repair!

I love how you think outside the box. Not many techs know how to do this. I'm like you trying to save my customer some cash if I can. Don't you just love Honda flow charts!

I agree. It would be silly to replace the ECM just to make sure that interlock part of the system works like intended. Your hack works just as well. You saved your customer a bunch of money. Good job.

"What do you want me to do? *CHOP IT OFF?!"* *Eric O* *SMA*

Well done! A dealer would’ve w quoted a new transmission for sure

Yet another NPR repair. Good on you Ivan for eating up this one. A small price to pay for a repeat customer and the goodwill associated with it.

Great original fix and great follow up repair. Who would have guessed the circuit would start working again.

I'm betting the shift interlock circuit in the ecm has a cracked solder joint that with the summer heat and vibration is now making contact.

Love hearing Everyone welcome back to Pine Hollow just beautiful CHEERS

I would like to make a few comments, if I could. These are strictly my opinion and not any criticism whatsoever. Just observations provided based only on the information I have available. First, just a couple of comments on PCM/ECM outputs and connections; 1) Connecting two (2) outputs together is not a good idea in general, if they are driven by different inputs, or if one is not sure both are open-collector outputs. This is what was found in this diagnostics (second video). Once the PCM output to the Shift Lock Solenoid (PCM, PIN E2) started working (comment on that a little later), which has the Brake Pedal Position Switch (PCM, Pin E22) and the TP Sensor (PCM, Pin A29) inputs that the Transmission Range Switch does not. This is what caused the new issue. Note, these in this case are open-collector outputs. 2) Whenever making a jumper to a different output, such as this example, the number of and size of the loads should be considered. In this example, the load of the Shift Lock Solenoid was added to the Transmission Range Switch. The SLS probably has a load that is 2, 3, or more times as large as the two (2) loads already on the Transmission Range Switch (MICU, Pin P16 and PCM, Pin D6, both inputs). One of these (probably PCM, Pin D6) has a pull-up resistor to +12V in the range of, probably, 1K - 40K. These inputs, resistor/resistors, and now the Shift Lock Solenoid are the loads on the Transmission Range Switch. Note: In this case I do not think the load is an issue as the total load is likely less than 1 Amp, and probably much less than that since the PCM (Pin E2) was driving the largest load, the Shift Lock Solenoid. However, the load on an output of any Computer Module (or other driver) should be checked if it is changed. Since this is driven by a simple switch, I assume the contacts in this switch (Transmission Range Switch) would not have an issue driving this added load. As to a possible reason the PCM output to the Shift Lock Solenoid (PCM, Pin E2) started working, I am more convinced than before (please see my comments on first video, if interested), that the TP Sensor is likely the root cause of the original issue. First thing is, you cannot trust the scanner. It shows that the TP Sensor (likely the Relative TP, a learned value) shows 4.54 degrees (or something like that) and 9.80% depressed. In the first video I commented that this should be 0%, was a learned value, and a ECM (PCM) reset and idle relearn might get it down to 0% (or close to it). Since this is a learned value, driving the car for 2 months would almost certainly give the PCM time to relearn this value and thus the Shift Lock Solenoid to start working again. This would be pretty close to the same as resetting the ECM (PCM) and doing a idle relearn. This could explain why it started working again. Just a possibility. As to why the same TP Sensor reading now, as in the first video, is 9.80%, I cannot say except that the TP Sensor value could be in the threshold area, or what is called the undefined area. As a very short explanation of what I mean, the PCM has to have some threshold, say as an example 5 degrees or 10% where it determines if the Accelerator Pedal is (TP Sensor relative value in this case) pressed or not pressed. If the value is less than 5 degrees or 10% (in this example), the PCM considers the pedal not pressed, If above this value the PCM considers the pedal is pressed. What happens though if the TP Sensor value is at, or very close to 5 degrees or 10%? The PCM does not know if the Accelerator Pedal is depressed or not depressed. There is always a +/- involved here to. The Threshold might be 5 degrees or 10% +/- 5%, as an example. That would mean IF the TP Sensor is between 4.75 to 5.25 degrees or 9.5% to 10.5% the PCM will not know if the Accelerator Pedal (TP Sensor) is depressed or not depressed, and it's Shift Lock Solenoid output may be driven low or not driven (if not driven it would be high due to internal pull-up, this is called an open-collector output). This is the Undefined area. The scanner just may not have the granularity to be able to read the value as accurately, with the resolution, of the PCM. I hope this is making sense to someone. Again, this is a very short explanation (attempted explanation) of what might be going on here. Some suggestions to possibly consider; it is my opinion that if this car ever comes back, one might consider doing one (1) or more of the following; 1) A relatively fast way to check this would be to either reconnect the original connection (PCM, Pin E2 to Shift Lock Solenoid), disconnecting the jumper wire, OR connect a test light, meter, or scope to the unconnected wire (PCM, Pin E2). Then, since the TP Sensor in the second video we saw went to 0% (or maybe 1.5%, or thereabouts) when unplugged, this PCM output could be tested 10-15 times with the TP Sensor disconnected and with it connected (i.e. with TP Sensor close to 0% and with it close to 10%). Here, we would be looking for the PCM output working reliably with the TP Sensor disconnected and working either intermittently or not at all with the TP Sensor connected. This idea here is to get the TP Sensor to 0% (or close to it), and see if it affects the PCM Shift Lock Solenoid output as compared to when it is 9.80% (according to the scanner). Results here may not be definitive, and first method here would be best as the PCM output would have it's normal load on it. Also, there maybe some other way to test this as unplugging the TP Sensor would likely generate a code and could mess with the results, making them unhelpful. 2) This is a more time consuming way to test this, but would likely also provide a somewhat more definitive result. First, remove jumper and reconnect everything to factory connection. Second, put a scope probe on three (3) signals, PCM, Pins E2, A29, and E22. These are the Shift Lock Solenoid PCM output, the TP Sensor & Brake Pedal Position Switch inputs. Then the Shift Lock Solenoid can be tested with and without the TP Sensor connected as in number 1 above, or before and after a PCM reset and idle relearn is done. 3 The last suggestion would be to remove jumper and reconnect to factory connections. Then test it 10-15 times or so. Then do a ECM (PCM) reset and a idle relearn procedure, then retest and compare results. Finally, it is my opinion (based on information available), that there is nothing wrong with the PCM/ECM. It looks very likely to me that the root cause of the original problem could be the TP Sensor input to the PCM (Pin A29). Resetting the PCM/ECM and doing a idle relearn might fix the issue, with the wiring back to factoring connections. Also, cleaning the throttle body and then doing the reset and idle relearn (if resetting and idle relearn alone doesn't work), might work. Getting the TP Sensor down closer to 0 degrees (0%), in my opinion, could very well fix the original issue, and what these suggestions would be attempting to do. Of course I could be completely wrong. Please note that I understand that time is money and not doing more work than is necessary is one of the goals of running a business. These suggestions and comments are solely my opinion and, I should say, based partly on curiosity. Both videos are very good and informational. We know there is a lot of work to make these videos and they are greatly appreciated. I did, in addition to watching this video, go back and re-watch the first video before making these comments. Thank you for making all the videos you make.

Watching your own video within a video? I'm getting inception vibes.

That was an impressive bit of diagnostic logic. Well done! As soon as I'd verified the bad driver, I would have been off to Harry's (U-Pullit) for a new ECU. But, for that vehicle, in those same circumstances, you made the best call for the customer.

A TRUE MECHANIC !!!!!! HONEST AND FAIR, BEST OF ALL A TRUE EXPERT AUTO DIAGNOSTICIAN !

NPR another great repair by the mechanical whisperer 👍

Cool and unique diagnosis + repair. Customer may want to have you replace that computer at some point with a rebuilt or junkyard one, in case other issues decide to pop up. Great job btw!

Ivan, I "loved the chase." I'm a wiring diagram kind of guy myself. A 100 hears ago, :-) when I first started working Aircraft electronics, I looked at a "fold out pages wiring diagram" and my eyes crossed. :-) Certainly was intimidating, but you learn to "narrow your vision." Thanks,

More Russian hacks, lol. Replacing the ecm is not a option for customer. Just snip that wire! All fixed! Good video! Thumbs up!

Great work figuring out that the driver was interacting with the brake pedal switch. Good quick fix but yet I still think you deserve something you've been very very very thorough great work. All the best from Canada

Ivan, excellent video, I worked in a calibration lab, and remember working on HP counters and finding a bad transistor, part replaced and fixed problem, discussed problem with HP field service tech afterwards, he mentioned that HP would use a part made to their specs and work in many other pieces of electronics, but the off the shelf part number may or may not work in their equipment because their spec requirements.

It is amazing how much you know about the electronics of these cars ! In the good old days if you had fuel and air and a spark the engine would run not anymore thats for sure

Nice repair on a comeback. Excellent for not charging. But i am a little bummed there was no bonus footage. 😁

The computer for sure it will be expensive and no follow up charge. You are the Man. Thanks. I Always enjoy fully your videos. I am amazed by your logic, step by step process and iron patience. Fantastic.

Looks like a classic cracked solder joint. Circuit board manufacturers try to put as little solder on a joint as possible which saves them money but causes a weaker connection.

I love how Ivan shows us how to use logic and schematic to solve the problem. I use that same method in computer diagnostics in my job as a computer tech. A lot of guys just reload the O.S>. Then complains when the problem comes back.

Dear Ivan, it seems that the driver is only a summer vibrant guy who like to stay idle in cold Looool. Take Care.

12:12 That my friend is the Sour Taste of 'Eating a Comeback' even though we tried to save the Customer Money initially, it comes back to bite us in the butt!

1) "No good deed goes unpunished" 2) If you modify it you own it (forever) and last, but not least... "If it can go wrong it will" (Murphy's Law).

Another job well done by the Russian hacker 👍

General Ivan wins the battle yet again without a Parts Cannon firing. Bravo sir, bravo.

OHR only hacks required Good work Ivan.

Good job Ivan, well diagnosed

Back in 1992, the BTS system on a GM was a simple solonoid connected to the brake light switch. Push the brake pedal, and you can take car out of park. Was just a nice simple safety feature. Very dependable and built in bypass if failed. The automakers have taken this way to far.

Nice logic Ivan as you figured why it was acting up after first repair. Also props for not charging customer again. It is unfortunate for your pocket book, but the right thing to do. You will sleep good knowing you did the right thing. So many shops would have talked themselves into getting more money! The next one like this you will have some experience as to the possibility that the driver could come back to life, so eliminate it from the equation, just in case.

My view of every flowchart: 1) Visually inspect wires for obvious damage, if none go to step 2 2) Replace PCM

I personally like it.. but how do you explain to a non mechanical person that you snipped a wire and were good!

I'm surprised it wasn't a range sensor, as they are a high failure prone part. My Acura dealer has them on backorder. Anyhow, great vid. I've NEVER seen a PCM driver come back to life before!

cool, what about some electrical tape on the cut wire

NOW THAT WAS A DEEP MYSTERY . PINPOINT DIAG

I’ve been burnt on this! I’m not sure on TP% but I know for a fact on a snap on it shows voltage, and if the TP voltage is above 0.75 volts Honda will not shift out of park. Voltage on the TPS should be 0.50, it has an IAC to control idle so throttle plate should show it’s closed. As the TPS worsens the car will have systems of harsh shifting. Great video!!! Just wanted to share my 2 cents, I don’t think you have a computer problem, I’d think it’s a tps input problem but I don’t know what 0.50 volts transfers to percentage.

There are often unintended consequences for any changes made.

My son has the same exact car with 170,000 miles. If I encounter any electrical gremlins I'll be sure to drive the hour or so north to see you, I'm quite close, in Bedford County.

Usually the fix is to reconnect a cut wire. Now the fix is to cut a wire.

Dont you just love working on these modern pieces of crap!!

As I pick up more and auction cars, I have noticed a lot of PCM issues have been caused by a mechanical issue like a sensor that causes PCM to not read. I think part cannon types throw in a new computer too quickly. My last auction car was a $20 (Used OEM) Mass air flow sensor that caused similar issues.

Ivan, this was a good call on you 👏. Good explanation, customer happy that's what matters. Thanks 😊

Now that the interlock circuit is working, can the PCM throw a code for the yel/blk wire you cut (now that the pin is floating)? Would it hurt to splice in a resistor of the same ohms as the interlock solenoid and tie it to GND, to fool the PCM?

I am curious how these mods will affect the sale of the car should she decide to get rid of it? If I'm buying a used car, I want everything to work properly and not having to depress the brake pedal to shift from P would cause a concern to me. Maybe I'm the only one with this concern.

Great job Ivan

Hi ivan! Do you like your Thinktool? I am thinking of buying. Does it work wel on European cars? Let me know.

Привет, Иван! Наверное, теплая погода все хорошо прогрела и плата, вновь решила работать...

Great diagnostics and good of you to take the hit. I have absolutely no idea why you got some thumbs down, some folks are just harder to understand than BMW wiring systems :-)

In the dealership you get a half hour Diagnostic time for any wiring problem. And those flow charts would be like chasing your tail.

Well done.

Good enough for that old car 👍🏼

I would have put a diode in there instead of cutting it so it is always hot on the one side, but the ECM can't see it.

My only concern here is you've disabled the transmission lockout. I know that replacing the engine computer is expensive, but what happens if the car is in gear when it's not supposed to be and something happens? You could be liable. Sometimes you have to fire the very expensive parts cannon to save your own bacon.

Ivan, as I mentioned on your other video, I think the root cause was that the interlock was intentionally not being released by the ECM because it interpreted that the throttle was being depressed based on the TPS signal and its "learned" interpretation. As I mentioned, a better fix would have been to try relearning/reseting the throttle body to get the ECM to "understand" where the TPS signal is under normal idle conditions (this could have been affected by carbon build-up, cleaning, throttle body replacement, TPS replacement, etc.). If you don't have the throttle body reset/relearn tool from Honda, I mentioned this procedure for doing it manually without the tool: === 1) Turn the ignition key to the RUN position for 2-seconds. Do not start the engine. 2) Start the engine and run it at 3,000 RPM until the radiator fans come on. 3) Then let the ending idle for five minutes with no loads (lights, heated seats, rear defogger, blower motor, radio, etc OFF) 4) After five minutes, shut off the engine. === I suspect that after your original wiring mods, the customer has inadvertently run this procedure and the throttle body has been relearned (so that the ECM now "understands" the normal idle position and "knows" that the driver is *not* depressing the accelerator pedal (so it energizes the solenoid and allows a shift out of park, as it should). So I think the driver is now working properly now that it has been "reset" (inadvertently by the customer). After all, you are now seeing the driver pull the circuit low when the brake is depressed (as it should be). Given the critical safety aspect of this interlock (not allowing inadvertent shifts out of park -- pretty dangerous), I would recommend that you restore the circuit to its original form and strongly suspect it will now work as intended. It would still be one of you famous "no parts required" fixes. Thanks for all your great diagnostic videos -- I always learn something useful from watching!

Hi Ivan. I may be wrong but I think you cut the wire to close to the connector. A future fix ,if customer wanted to,, would be more tedious on that wire. Just an observation. Thanks again for flushing the flowchart down the toilet. Sometimes they make a dumb diyer dummer. Love ya vids

A set of side cutters solved a problem...amazing.

Great work as always.

Hope that wire doesn't magically reconnect itself !

Did you tape it off or cut it shorter? The Clapham rail crash was caused by a wire, cut during signalling work and not taped or tied back, moving back into its original position and making contact again.

I guess you can consider it a learning experience but I feel you should charge for that ,, you had no way of knowing that it would heal itself and cause problems...

Could it be a switch that is broken and not telling the ECU that it's in park or a faulty accelerator pedal switch

I would have wired of the brake light switch. But I also thought that wire should have been cut when I watched the first video..

Hi, just a suggestion,is the PCM unable to pull an earth down for the shift lock solenoid due to a poor PCM earth point??? The fact in was OK for a few months then came back to operating could be a bad earth point remaking???

great save, unfortunately, you are paying for it by helping the customer out and not replacing the ECU with the bad driver. I fix my own stuff and can live with this type of work around. But when a customer has a problem , your time is not paid for after you saved them the cost of an ECU.

ANOTHER WONDERFUL DIAG

Great Diagnosing as always.

Thought something weird and strange might happen from 1st vid. Woulda been ok if the damn thing stayed broke but she decided to fix herself. I believe i stated i would have just removed the solenoid or the actual mechanical locking mechanism. Its just an whoops solenoid anyway. Only put there for people who cant drive. Just like caution hot on your cup a coffee or do not eat packet in your beef jerky. I think itll be ok now but again the added current elsewhere could be a problem. Only time will tell. Keep those doggies rolling. Thanks for your time and knowledge

My 2010 accord D was flashing when i was getting off the highway. I dont know why but when it turned it the car off and turned it back on it stopped. I never understood why it wqs flashing but i never saw it come back with the 2 years i had it.

The dreaded "GM ignition switch from hell" is always on my mind.

So Ivanivanovitch never removed the splice he had put in because he did not know of if the driver would stop working again. His final solution was to make the solonoid open the shifter with the key on. I can see why this is not done because my brother's granddaughter shifted his pickup to neutral rolling over a steep hill destroying the pickup and almost taking her life.

Like #414 Thanks for the video! Life is a learning curve! Hindsight is 20-15!

It was actually the headliner module that disabled the vehicle.

Awesome. Thanks Ivan!

Ivan, did you check to see it you could perform a throttle relearn based on the TSB #SN040705. We both know the PCM showing a 9% throttle doesn’t seem right. Im sure it’s not a driver issue with the SLS, the TSB for the shifter stuck in park mentions the TPS must show 0% @ idle. What changed? Nobody knows, 9% must be that grey area where it sometimes works. That would be my guess…

In my limited experience, whenever a circuit just magically starts functioning properly. It has a loose connection somewhere. Try the jiggle test in the harness and connectors.

If I'm following correctly, you made another modification to fix your original modification because the driver started working. You are a genius at understanding and fixing things, but making modifications like this complicates everything, including diagnostic software and procedures. It's probably okay if it's your car and no one else has to work on it, but for another tech working on someone else's car, it can turn into a nightmare. There should be a way to document changes made to configurations that the next tech will see. I see so many instances of wire looms cut and taped, spliced (repaired) wiring, that cause concern with the next person having to work on it (including you and SMA). I doubt it will happen, but wouldn't it be nice if there was a way to document the changes made to original configurations? I know shade tree mechanics and people who do their own work will just scoff, but professionals like yourself should be willing and able to leave a paper trail. It's admirable that you did this repair at no charge, but what would it do to the customer's confidence and trust if someone else had to fix it. There's no telling what it would have cost him. Your reputation would probably take a hit, too.

I would've just replaced the pcm. I know it's good snapper no mods to worry about. = no comeback

It would be interesting to know what amount of easy, normal or hard diagnostics of the total volume of repairs you make

the best generation of Accord 2003-2007; it lasts forever with a little maintenance!

Why not remove the solenoid completely and be done with it? Liability? Does the PCM know if the solenoid is MIA?

How about that pilot who survived being sucked out of the cockpit window at 17,000 feet? Catastrophic decompression like the diving bell incident.

Ivan, did you consider the comment by @TheOmegaman69 in the first video (I will copy-paste here): "I think you might want to check into the TP sensor. The TP Sensor voltage, KOEO (or idle), should be 0.49 Volts DC. The relative throttle position should be 0%. The relative throttle position is what is used, I believe, by the ECM for this shift interlock circuit. If it is above 0%, the shifter will not move out of park. I believe there maybe a TSB or recall on this issue. If the "TP sensor" PID you were looking at is the relative TP sensor value, then it should be 0%, and not 9.80%. This is just a possibility and a guess, so please keep that in mind. I am pretty sure that it is the relative throttle position sensor value that is used, not the actual value, by the ECM for this shift interlock circuit, and it must be 0% or it will not shift out of park. Again, just a possibility and a guess. I don't have enough specific information in this case to be able to do much more than suggest a possibility and provide a guess. Just wanted to add it would be helpful to ask if the TPS Sensor (Throttle Body) has been replaced recently. If so, then the ECM needs to be reset and a idle relearn done, which should put the relative TP sensor to 0%. The relative throttle position sensor value is a learned value."

Once i stumble upon a toyota which doesn't go to Off even the key is out of the key switch. Found out that it had a problem with turn signals and repaired. Some tech bypassed a wire in the hazard light switch , direct battery + to ignition feed because that ignition feed wasn't present and somehow forgot to CHOP the original feed line. For some reason the lost connection is back alive and it is in a loop feeding battery + to ignition.It took me while to figure it out.:(

Errr.... is it really a comeback when the car basically fixed itself, thereby making the earlier fix a problem?

Transmission fluid change time?

Not a comeback when it can’t come!

This no parts required sometimes back fires

Please no more ads

Crazy circuit flow. Usually the solenoid releases based on input from brake switch. Is it possible the TB is a little dirty, holding the butterfly open some? Seems I remember the TPS is not serviceable on a Honda, they want you to buy a TB.

Creative fix. This down pose a safety issue where the driver can put it into gear without depressing brake pedal.

well done again

I had a shift lock solenoid go out on ‘13 Pathfinder and I couldn’t shift out of park. I took it to a Nissan dealer and they replaced the entire shifter mechanism that included a new solenoid. The technical service bulletin called for a fix that required 13 pages of instruction that would have cost more labor than replacing the entire shifter mechanism, but the dealer didn’t have any no parts required Russian technicians. On your Honda will it shift out of park if the brake pedal isn’t depressed?

nice video brother!!!! I did enjoy it!!!!

Hey Ivan, always have been a big fan of your work and ability to fix almost everything without parts however why cut the wire over simply removing that pin from the connector and taping it off?

Just a thought , would cap discharge have initially helped the driver malfunction and is it plausible that somehow this is the reason for the driver to suddenly start functioning again ?