Ive seen cyclonic rift be a game winning play more times than i can recall. Particularly in a creature heavy meta where board states are pretty even but still built up, its one of, if the not the best blue win cons.
Cyclonic Rift is a wincon on a bogged down board state. You have creatures, but so does everyone else, and you just can't get through for the kill. Rift gets rid of everything and then not only do you have the first chance to take out a defenseless opponent, but likely the others won't be able to rebuild in time to stop you.
@bobbyfartz5591 If it isn't an outright combat victory then no, they don't do anywhere near the same thing. If you're a wide strategy then open into wonder might not even be possible in the first place. Cyclonic isn't just good because you can potentially win when you play it, its good because you WILL be ahead of everyone else no matter what when you play it.
The regular mode is also really useful. Bounce spells in general are good, just hard to fit in. They can be as good as removal for disrupting combos, and often bouncing something threatening thanks to politics is better than removal. They still threaten to replay it, but everyone knows that now and they can be certain to keep open removal or choose player removal if possible. Better than 1-for-1ing is 1-for-1-for-1ing, or turning other player’s capabilities elsewhere.
Meh. It's *A* "wincon" in the right situation. But it's never your only option. There's a couple of my decks where I found it to be a good fit but definitely had better (and cheaper lol) options in the majority of my other decks that include blue.
Rift removes all permanents, not just creatures and if you don't have a combat victory against all players you can take out one player and don't have to concern yourself with leaving up blockers. Rift also takes things like Sphere of Safety, Propaganda or a Norn's Decree out of the equation. It's especially helpful in mono-u because mono-u struggles very badly with enchantment removal.@@bobbyfartz5591
I can relate to that last part about Cyclonic Rift, where he said he was targeted simply for playing blue. Some people get irrational about certain things and try to get the rest of the table to gang up on you. Let's be real though, if you sit down at a table where each player has taken the time to fine tune their deck to be at least somewhat competitive, then everyone sitting at the table is up to some sneaky, shady, shenanigans. From experience, the person who often starts trying to get the table to gang up on someone for that kind of thing is just looking to use that player as a distraction so they themselves can fly under the radar until they pull off their own degenerate two card combo.
I think if you can get persistent card advantage each turn with cards such as Rhystic Study, The One Ring or Throne of Eldraine you might be able to develop much faster with Exploration. I took the advice from Command Zone and upgraded my Merfolk precon from LCI with Exploration. Here it really makes sense because you get to explore so many times with this commander that you want to make sure you can drop more than one land each turn. That being said, it is still very niche. Azusa would be another and monetarily cheaper card that you could use.
I think it's also okay in some enchantron decks as it can add to some of the effects that build off the number of enchantments you control and you're also drawing a lot more and likely to have extra lands more often.
If you’ve got multiple big-draw effects, you should be considering Exploration. On top of the draw-synergy, this Enchantment is the next thing to a T1 Sol Ring, *without* generally triggering that Archenemy thing with some people. I’ve had so, so many games with half a dozen different Mono Green decks go: Forest, Play Exploration, Play 2nd Forest, Play Dork, then either Harmonize on the T2 Untap, or go straight into a Skyshroud Claim or Migration Path, and I’m so far out in front that even a 3v1 forming at that point may well not be enough to hold me down. If this was another 35-48$ card, I’d probably advise looking elsewhere, but it’s 10-12$, and worth every penny of that, IMHO. What’s *also* great is that when you can get this far out in front, cards like Tempt With Discovery ironically work *better* because the player who cracks isn’t worried about bettering your position too much. I’ve talked 2 of my 3 opponents into tempting numerous times with a blowout start like that.
I didn't really understand the hate that seems to exist for cyclonic rift. I must say after getting it cast against me 2 times in the same game backed up by free counters. It was kinda annoying 😅
Other than landfall decks, Exploration is also okay in Enchantress decks, because those overdraw a lot and itself is a cheap way to trigger. Besides those two deck types I probably wouldn't play it at all anymore though. Many cards on this list I have lying around and was like "huh so they're expensive now" i.e. Metamorph - loved the card, have like 10 copies from back when they were considered chaff. It will forever be a solid 1-2 dollar card in my mind. 😂
Couldn’t disagree more. Exploration is insanely powerful to see in your opening draw. It’s like another turn one Sol Ring situation. Drop green-producer, play Exploration, drop next green-producer, play dork. You’re now set up to either Harmonize or hammer out a 2-land ramp like Skyshroud Claim. If you’re going to use 3, 4, or even 5-cost land ramp spells, there’s no good reason not to play Exploration. If you’re going to play any big-draw spells, from Harmonize, to RotW, to Hunter’s Insight, or any of the Simic/Selesnya draws, why wouldn’t you want to be doubling your land-drops? Planning on using any consistent-draw Artifacts like Throne of Eldraine? See above. We’re talking about a 1G Enchantment. Finally, unlike cards like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, Exploration isn’t going to ping a lot of player’s Archenemy-detection subroutine. I’ve had games that go Forest, Exploration, Forest, Sol Ring, and at that point the failure to remove my Sol Ring before my next untap meant I had a grand time crushing the 3v1 that vainly tried to hold me down. If it was 40-50$? No, it probably wouldn’t be worth it. It’s absolutely worth the 12$ I got mine for 4-5 months ago, though.
My Mana Crypt cost me a Verdant Catacombs in a 1 for 1 trade with a Modern only player. When Mana Crypt was first reprinted in Eternal Masters, they were both worth about $70.
You mention that cyclonic rift shouldn't be necessary for combo, but that is quite untrue. I play a lot of combo decks and often there are permanents that keep me from comboing on the field such as rule of law, torpor orb, deafening sulence... too many options to name. But a single cyclonic rift before my turn and I can combo freely. It even works around shroud and ward! It is a must have for any blue combo deck, and my first piece of removal I would add.
I ran Mana Crypt in my Zulodok deck, took it out because I wasn't allowed to play the non colored deck I really wanted to play, but Still needed some mana acceleration. I ended up getting a lot of colorless mana discount (like Semblance anvil, Helm of Awakening, Cloud Key). Edit: It made it more fun to play and play against! Specially since Helm of Awakening gives the mana discount to every player, so I get to stay alive at least 1 more turn if the need it lol
I cracked a Jeweled Lotus from one random commander masters booster and immediately sold it because it wouldnt be worth to add a card to my decks that costs more than my entire deck.
Yeah I own one but don't play it, just look at it. Maybe one day I'll try cedh and it'll get some use. But I don't feel good playing it in a casual game. Someone at my LGS played it in his voltron atarka deck, it wasn't that powerfull there. Just removed the dragon that came down t3.
If you have a MDFC in your opener and no turn 1 or 2 play, you need play it and don’t worry about it. I look at like I try to play 3 MDFCs in all my decks and that lets me cut a land.
Agreed. They are a land with potential upside late in the game, not a spell that could be a land in a pinch. Similar to shock lands I will take 3 if needed, and I will always play sea gate if I’m missing a land drop (until I’m at 6+ mana) but it feels so great to draw later, and that’s ignoring where it’s fantastic with spell reducers.
The scenario where you win with rift on the next turn is when you use it to get rid of their blockers when you otherwise wouldn’t have a lethal board state
@@JervisGermane Those are two of my favorites also. People on here responding like rift is the only wincon need to get off edhrec's guide to lazy deckbuilding lmao.
The most I've ever paid for a card was 85 USD. Tawnos's Coffin for my Kardur ETB deck. I do not regret it, but I also do not recommend anyone do what I did. We all have that one deck that is our baby.
I bought a Reaper King for $60 because I wanted to do a scarecrow deck purely because I loved the ability of RK and I had a bunch of scarecrows I thought were useless until I found out about RK.
The only somewhat budget competitive deck I know is a blue/white stacks deck. You just opt out the expensive free counter spells and fast mana rocks and it still puts in work
They’re not likely targeting you because of playing dual lands but rather making the assumption that if the lands in your deck cost several thousand dollars, it would be reasonable that the rest of your deck may be high power to match. If all else is equal, kill the high roller player or the blue deck.
I’ve never seen the instant hatred from someone playing a Cyclonic Rift, even in random play groups at my LGS. Even if they win the game the next turn, the Cyclonic Rift didn’t “win the game”, it was either a combo or just an overwhelming board state, and in both cases people are usually fine because it was quick and made sense. I would say playing a Cyclonic Rift would be worse if it just caused the game to drag on, similar to casting an Armageddon with no way to take advantage and having the game drag on, but I’ve never seen the hate on the card like others say they do.
Exploration is great in control decks that draw a lot of cards. Hitting 2 lands a turn quickly gets you to a point where you can progress your own gameplan and still leave mana up for interaction.
The reason for that is actually more simple than you think: it's because they have to choose whether or not to allow you to have the resources. Mana crypt is, theoretically, a 1.5 damage per turn clock that ramps you for 2, whilst Smothering Tithe is a 4-mana enchantment that "punishes" their card draw. Besides, if you want to see salt surrounding Smothering Tithe, drop a bunch of forced draw... Ghirapur Orrey, Font of Mythos, Howling Mine, Seizan, and Teferi's Puzzle Box, for example. Once they can't afford to play all the cards they're drawing, and you can, things get kinda interesting.
Oh damn the Cyclonic Rift. Hexproof doesn't work, shroud and ward don't work, regenerate and indestructible do not work. It destroys my tokens, bounce my creatures, and cripple my mana base. In order to come back I need to dpend a turn just recasting mana rocks and dorks, then another turn for enchantments and then a third turn for creatures including the commander. I am not even the threat, just collateral damage for an unidirectional, instant-speed mass removal spell. The blue player then have 2-3 turns to combo off or beat up people with ☆/☆ artifact creatures. It is an instant speed, multi-turn timewalk.
I think its important to say that this is not talking about value in terms of resale. There are very few cards that can reliably make their value back in resale, but the dual lands and mana crypt definitely make that list because there is ALWAYS someone willing to overpay for them. If your only goal is to buy a dual to replace a tapped dual, than you are absolutely correct. Not worth it. Side note, if anyone is looking to buy some esper duals, I have a few playsets that I'm willing to part with for the right price :P
The other thing I think needs to be said is that you don't need to buy multiple copies of cards if you are a commander player. There is no reason at all to buy 5 smothering tithes. Just have 1 and move it from deck to deck. I have like 2 side-load binders with cards for commander, and I can assemble like 40 decks out of those binders. You need to plan ahead and use the same sleeves for everything, but it is easily the best way to save TONS of cash.
I see exactly what you mean about the price of dual lands. Prices of cards on the Reserved List have been crazy for a while now due to scarcity. I don't think its fair to say Dual Lands are not worth it, without putting it in perspective. Which cards from the reserved list are worth their price? If I want to spent 500$ on a single card, what is better than a dual Land? Of course there is the argument " Why don't you buy 500$ of 0.25$ singles?" The same reason there are so few millionaires buying 200 Toyota Tercel to put in their garage... Cheers!
I don't get it: opponents come after you for casting Cyclonic Rift when they know someone has a Craterhoof Behemoth in hand, and you blame the Cyclonic Rift?
Deadly rollick. I disagree. It is one of the cheaper free spells and is an exile answer in a color that mainly destroys. When needed, it's crucial. I have a mono black mill deck, and it's saved me against a shuffle titan more than once.
I think he is saying that, for the price, the effect is replaceable. It seems that since you have a copy, then it's great, and you should use it. Especially if Eldrazi Titans are rampant in your meta. However, in your mono black mill deck, if it were budget or you were a new player without a Deadly Rollick, there are plenty of options that would mitigate the two problems the titans create: Indestructible (Ulamog) and shuffling the graveyard back into their library. I have a mono-red mill deck and face the same issues, but I literally cannot run Deadly Rollick. A couple spot removal pieces that can deal with an Ulamog on the cheap are Tragic Slip and Soul Shatter, and they are only a couple dollars at most. To deal with the graveyard shuffle, there are plenty of effects that exile graveyards at instant speed, and graveyard hate is necessary for all mill decks. Scavenger Grounds doesn't even take up a spell slot, and its also only a couple dollars. Also, Baleful Mastery is an exile effect that could even force them to draw a card with the shuffle trigger on the stack, if you're able to mill their whole deck at once. Demo is inviting players to explore more options before investing in a single card because it's powerful.
@shrimpboatgames8002 Deadly Rollick is amazing, I am an Eldrazi player and play black in most other decks, extremely useful when you have it, absolutely sucks when on the receiving end. Extremely good 😆
@stigmurder99 I agree 100% with that! But Demo is saying that, in terms of the currency required to have access to it, Deadly Rollick is replaceable. There is no argument that it would be an absolute blowout effect in most black decks, if not all.
Tormod's Crypt, Tormod's Cryptkeeper, Soul Guide Lantern, Nihil Spellbomb, Leyline of the Void, and an incidental Oblivion Sower would all be good choices here...
As far as mana crypt goes, it is not overrated. The problem is that many players play it wrong. It goes in decks that are looking to steamroll into a win. It is not for a deck that is durdling. It goes in decks with untap synergies built in, just like mana vault. If you are a deck looking to win by turn eleven by attacking then you should never play this card. It hurts you in that scenario. You are also very correct that playing a mana crypt into a dead board is absurd. That's just stupid game play. The ONLY reason to do it is if you know you are playing a discard or wheel opponent. Maybe Nekusar or Tergrid.
I bought Sea Gate very early on for the second commander deck I ever built and I have no regrets. Love the card and it fits well in that deck. Usually use it to dig for my win con cards and it has gotten me 30+ cards in my hand quite a few times lol
I have three of those cards : deadly rollick (got it in the comment precon because i wanted mutate cards), cylconic rift (booster luck) and phyrexian metamorph (was way cheaper when i got it). I hardly ever buy any cards past 5$ because for what i play, everything over seems to be not worth it). I have the metamorph because i have a deck in which i want to copy both artifact and creatures, and my cyclonic rift is a boardwipe for my monoblue merfolk deck. I use it like any boardwipe in any decks, so it is not a wincon to me...
Jeweled Lotus makes an exception in my Arixmethes deck. It ETBs as a land, making it harder to remove, and provides 4 mana turn two to start getting the slumber counters off it asap.
Sea-Gate restoration I have in only one of my decks but it is an absolute powerhouse in it. It’s my Elegeth Crossroads Augur deck, and it combines big draw spells to fill up the hang as much as possible, and the win-con is Kozilek the Great Distortion.
I keep saying about Jeweled Lotus, it's best use is not getting your 4 drop commander on T1, it's either to get your commander ahead of curve and be able to do something else (drop Kaalia and equip boots for example) or to pay commander tax.
I'd say that Cyclonic Rift Scenario is a pod at board parity one person attempts to get ahead and the board gets Rifted. Suddenly the board is not at parity and the Rift player easily pushes 1 or more players, and the remaining are having to rebuild while the other is bearing down on them. My personal Rift combo is in my Inalla deck. Rift at the opponent's end step and then use Wanderwine Prophets 1 card combo that requires an open opponent to pull off. Of course, that deck is actively unfriendly and isn't played much - lol. It also mass land bounces. 😅
Sea Gate goes under chrome mox and pitches to mox diamond. It's also a blue card for force of will and negation. Green has this in a similar way with Turntimber Symbiosis. Pitches to Endurance and Force of Vigor. Plus on top of that they are both fine if you have a lot of Mana floating around. You can also bounce them back to hand and cast the spell side.
I opened a Jeweled Lotus in a pack. I never put it into any deck until I made a Bria, RIptide Rogue deck. It's still fine when my commander is out, because it's a free way to proc all the prowess my commander gives out.
For real lmao This fool must play with the most miserable frugal group of homies ever, you can only play draft chaff and jank and win with combat damage? 😂 the game is called magic bro, you don’t always have to win with big card smash combat damage…. Do some fuckin magic 🪄
Cyclonic rift and craterhoof derangement syndrome is real. I would understand maybe 10 years ago but now these cards are avarage power. 8 mana overrun and 7 mana bounce spell. Makes zero sense when you have cards in the format like Farewell and Akromas will but you will never get the same kind of hate for playing those.
I like to optimize my deck almost no matter the money cost for my two pet decks. But I dont play cards that are banned in a 1v1 game, those are often very expensive and often these cards make you a target.
I use cyclonic rift and seedborne muse in my pir and toothy deck to bait counter spells and remove manner rocks at the same so that way when it gets back to my turn I have a full pool of mana everybody's depleted and I flicker toothy repeatedly with laboratory manic on the board
Jin Gitaxias // The Great Synthesis is just a better Sea Gates Restoration. it costs a total of 9 mana but paid over 2 installments and the second half can be activated on another players end step so you have your mana when you go into your turn with all those cards. It also provides other forms of card draw, can cause a board wipe on its saga and can eventually become 1 turn of Omniscience. You will want to make sure you have some counter spells in hand if you ever want to complete that saga though
Mana crypt does make you a target, but you pull so far ahead it doesn't really matter unless your deck doesn't do anything. It is really expensive though.
I'm old enough that I have a savannah that I pulled from a pack. It really makes no difference but since it's a novelty it's been in my Angel deck since I started playing. I kept a Serra Angel in that deck for a long time but since there have been sooo many good angels it eventually had to go.
I've heard people say that about cyclonic rift and it makes me wonder what decks they are playing. Every time after I resolved rift in my pir and toothy deck I have won the turn after or 2nd turn after.
9:55 I pulled one and I looked at every deck I play with swamps in it and I couldn't find a home for it deflecting swat sure but I cant even find a deck to run og fork in that I play
Regarding MDFC spells, I would much rather hit early land drops more than play a Sea Gate Restoration/Agadeem's Awakening, etc. Those are generally "win more" spells. I think what actually makes them great is that they are spells that take up a land slot in your deck so you aren't really punished for including these big splashy spells. That said, I don't think they are worth buying unless you already have fairly strong deck, but you want that extra this-deck-goes-to-eleven competitiveness (not cEDH)
deadly rollick is like a 10-15 dollar card, yeah its not pennies but compared to everything you talked about before it I can say buying one wont break the bank on you and its a solid piece of removal
Yeah, I thought he was very wrong about that one. You don't just get one additional land on the turn you cast it either. It's every turn as long as it's out. Your opening hand will have 3-4 lands in it. If has 3 and an Exploration and you draw a land on your first turn, that's 4 lands on your second turn, which is almost as good as having a Sol Ring and Arcane Signet in your opening hand. And it's a lot easier to pull off.
Once you throw in draw spells you’ll likely end up with more lands. Draw 4 cards, dump the extra lands onto the battlefield. I once had a player cast windfall, I drew 2 nonland cards and 4 lands. It took me 4 turns to play those lands, but if I’d had exploration I would have had them all out in 2 turns. As a more specific situation, I would love an Exploration for my Zask, Skittering Swarmlord deck. One of my favorite things to do in that deck is use Demolition Field over and over to eliminate opponents nonbasics. Adding in exploration would allow me to do it an extra time each turn.
@@edhdeckbuildingdepends entirely on your card flow. If you play a commander where you're drawing enough cards to keep your hand full, having an outlet for extra lands does make a big difference. Enchantress is an obvious case here due to the double synergy.
Phyrexian Metamorph is certainly worth the price, but only in higher power pods where The One Ring is ubiquitous. In casual pods, I'd agree that it's just not necessary compared to the wealth of other options.
I tend to wipe the board in a way that breaks parity so I can win in the next turn or two. Cyc rift, farewell+tef's prot, hour of rev+clever conceal ... I like to have a board full of pieces that combo well, so I play some control to hold me over and protect my stuff. Once I have most of my stuff ready I like to clear everyone else out so I have the first chance at my win. Rather save counter magic to protect my stuff than to stop their plans, so I use board wipes to control their side without affecting mine. Knowing my deck is more for mid to late game, I've learned this is the best way for me to play, because if I don't mess with their board at all I can lose in the same turn rotation that I could have won. Heck, I like cyc rift to reset tokens, but not devastate my opponents. At least they don't have to get them back from the graveyard 🤷🏻
Agree on most of these, but Exploration is pretty significant with some commanders. Like Hakbal with all his explore triggers, it's pretty common for me to have 2 lands in hand on a random late turn. granted its not always a game winning card, but it offers a ton of ramp if you can consistently get lands.
I have said for years now that I would never play a mana crypt solely on the fact that you have to flip a coin & if you loose the flip you take 3 damage . I try to get other people to realize that it's not worth it because your opponents already trying to damage you & if you loose 2 or 3 coin flips in a row , you're going to need those life points later on in the match . I've said I'd rather run open the gates or beneath the sands or a soul ring because you won't take any damage from using them .
I cracked two Jeweled Lotus when it first came out, I run Muldrotha, and I STILL won't play it in my decks because I'm a causal player. I just don't feel like it is a healthy card to run at the tables I play at. I do not want to be that guy.
I pulled a jeweled lotus during a commande rlegends draft and managed to beat the other 4 players (not with the lotus, not even sure I played it in my deck) so I'm happily going to play it, BUT I think the only decks where I would consider it are decks with expensive-ish or just... expensive commanders. Well that or decks with "monolith" commanders that tend to die sooner rather than later.
Sea gate is expensive do to 60 card play, as a 7 mana land, edh is not playing it, as you said it's actively bad, unless you're using imoti and keriga, and this is always a cascade 6 spell
My decks on average have really few salty cards (all my decks have salt scores below average) but I just love the combat phase and players being aggroed suddenly give me all of their attention and by that, I mean targeted spells.
Winning off from a resolved Cyclonic Rift feels very much like a Simic (Or maybe Izzet since Red can swarm almost as well as Green) thing. Resolve Rift, then swing in with your Tanazir Quandrix plus swarm to do a ton of unblocked damage, in theory.
There was a recent Reddit thread by someone who got into MTG VERY recently and started a Voltron deck, and they couldn't understand why they were getting teamed up on despite being advised several times that voltron is so weak... Turns out the dude got into the format and built decks worth a few hundred dollars each with over 10 pieces of protection. And it just didn't seem worth it to invest to heavily into decks just to find them not fun because they got 'arch-enemied' for not even knowing how tuned their deck was. I've seen a BUNCH of people go into MTG and start looking at the pricey cards to get a 'good deck' right away.
The Cyclonic Rift situation is the same reason why I took Avacyn out of my angels deck; I always, ALWAYS made everyone paranoid and mad when I cast her and never made me win a game because I became the main target, can't have a defensive answer like that anymore.
@@Dragon_Fyre That's the expected strat, but I usually hard cast her so I was always open for any kind of answers before my next turn comes like counters or exiles. I've decided to swap her for Serra's Emissary, it improved my deck a bit.
@@HanDaimond The same could be said for several of the cards mentioned ie. Cyclonic Rift. If you are going to go on offence and win, great card. If you are just playing it defensively, it probably draws more hate than anything else and gets you killed all the same. So I could definitely see Serra’s Emissary playing better in that context. I use Avacyn in Kaalia and Will, Scion of Peace decks where I am definitely on offence.
I play MDFCs in any deck where I play gitrog monster. Play it early, sac it later and then add it back with something like eternal witness. Wish life from the loam worked with them but then they'd be busted
Crypt is absolutely worth it and saying its worse then Ring is insane. The life loss is trival as you are only losing an average of 9 life in a seven turn game. Being a target doesnt matter due to the fact you win due to the massive mana advantage. Getting 3 drops turn 1 is huge. The cost is high but the fact it goes in every deck alleviates the problem. If you have 4 decks then its $50/deck and will improve WR more then $50 of deck specific cards. If you are only going to play it in one deck there is an argument to be made but thay argument is certainly not that its a bad card.
The Zendikar mythic DFC lands are incredibly good. One of the strongest cards ever printed, actually. All you do it treat them like a regular land, paying the 3-life to have it enter untapped. 99% of the time? You will just play it as a land. In a situation when you are in a topdeck war? These cards are that 1% chance you win. In a casual Magic game? Certainly not worth $25. In a pro scene where you will do anything it takes to win? $25 for that extra 1% win is insane.
Sleeping on Bloomtender. If it taps for 2 or more, it's way above normal dorks. In 5C it's absolutely nuts. Agree with the other picks, but pick up a Bloomtender. You won't regret it
Cyclonic Rift is also good to save yourself from a massive attack or bounce combopieces when the other oiece is on the stack. That card is hyped, since Command Zone showed how it can go off. But i wouldn't say it's not worth buying. On the other hand, i don't know the prices in the US. They are usually absolute insane
Great video man. I agree with Cyclonic Rift not being worth the money, but I disagree that it isn't worth running if you already own it. It's a straight up win con in combat dmg based blue decks and will win you the game outright. There's so many insanely broken things a player can do in commander that if someone gets salty about a rift resolving, they probably get salty about a looot of things.
I play it in my Octavia deck simply so I have a land that counts as a sorcery in my graveyard. I almost always want to discard it with some looting effect, but I can cut down on lands in my very low to the ground cantrip heavy deck
