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Commodore 64C with a frustratingly simple fault 

CRG
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Its been a while since we looked at a faulty C64 and this 64C is certainly one of them. What turns out to be a rather simple fix in the end was nothing short of frustrating and took me on a wild goose chase of looking for problems where there were none. All part of the fun though so join me as we dig into this machine and try to figure out why its not working!
Follow CRG on twitter / yt_crg

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5 фев 2022

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Комментарии : 85   
@DaveVelociraptor
@DaveVelociraptor 2 года назад
The random characters appearing are classic signs of a haunted commodore.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Didn't help me much on the lottery though :)
@Wikcentral
@Wikcentral 2 года назад
The missing LED is signs of blown fuse, the fuse can blow sometimes with plugging into cassette port with power on or problem with cassette drive. The 9vac is needed for the CIA TOD clock, which drives the times on the diagnostic test. That was a fun fix.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks for clarifying the 9v requirement for the TOD clock. Not sure how the fuse went but maybe hot plugging the cassette deck as you said.
@c128stuff
@c128stuff 2 года назад
Lack of 9VAC will cause timers to fail because its 50hz (or 60 on ntsc machines) line frequency is used to generate the pulse counted by the CIA counters. That is also why there is ac power there at all.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks for letting me know. Probably should have known that already 😉
@Shmbler
@Shmbler 2 года назад
A quite interesting fault. Nice to see how the symptoms (dead card slot and random row 0 keys) all made sense in the end. We've all learned to keep looking for common connections of failng components even if it seems they are not related at all. I wonder if the "magic finger" method would have worked here just as it did for me several times when there were floating inputs due to broken traces. I would have expected that simply touching the broken data line (CPU side) with a fingertip would have changed the random key presses significantly.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Looking back at it now I probably should have noticed on the keyboard connector that the pin wasn't fully low, there was some noise on it and probably an indication that it was floating. While not in the video I scoped the databus at the CPU and when it looked fine there I didn't bother looking at it on the CIA or the cartridge port. Even doing that would have pointed to the fault straight away. Easy to say all that in hindsight though. I'm just glad it got fixed in the end even if it did take me on a ride 😁
@c128stuff
@c128stuff 2 года назад
@@CRG thanks for sharing that ride :-)
@doktor6495
@doktor6495 2 года назад
The CIAs need the 9VAC to generate the TOD (TimeOfDay) out of the 50/60 Hz. Greetings, Doc64!
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
That explains why there was no clock then. Thanks for clarifying 👍
@YogSothoth1969
@YogSothoth1969 2 года назад
Very interessting, glad you got it running in the end, thanks for sharing!!! Greetings, Michael (o7 Commander ;-)
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
I really need to get back into Elite 🙂
@MrFixiit
@MrFixiit 2 года назад
cool stuff another C64 saved from the landfill
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks
@cthlhu
@cthlhu 2 года назад
Another great video! Glad you were able to bring this one back to life.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks
@ThereIsOnly1ArcNinja
@ThereIsOnly1ArcNinja 2 года назад
Nice fix. I've had a C64C showing quite similar behavior - just add some character rainbowing and sparkling - back in the mid 90's with no internet, no test harness or even cartridge to find help. Drove me crazy for weeks until I've found the cause - an intermittent mechanical failure in the power distribution around the fuse. By than I've had swapped out the fuse, both CIAs, the VIC, the CPU, the Kernal and the Combo Chip with known good parts.🤯 What that taught me: Don't freak out if your C64 freaks out. Some mild percussive maintenance may guide you to the cause! 😁 So I could feel your frustration chasing those loose electrons falling out of this board.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks. Never heard of a power issue causing flickering like that so good to know. Its easy sometimes to fall into the trap of chasing a faulty component when actually is a physical break somewhere on the board.
@JosepsGSX
@JosepsGSX 2 года назад
Keep that style of music and that 5% outro viewers might go up a bit. Can´t say about the image thought, I have no sense of aesthetics, but you can´t go wrong with those soundtracks. Superb subtitle work here. The whole ride documented this way has been quite interesting.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video. I just record as I work, nothing scripted so I tend to stick in the text almost as comment to myself. Hard to beat a bit of SID chip music, my normal outro song is from an Amiga game, prehistoric tale, but I couldn't cut that epic song from last ninja. The new image is something I've had sitting for a few months just not used it yet. I like it but then again my sense of aesthetics are probably a bit wanting too 😂
@jarnailbrar6732
@jarnailbrar6732 2 года назад
That is so much work, you have so much patience. Glad to see you got it fixed.
@Hounddoggy33
@Hounddoggy33 2 года назад
Great job! Glad you didn't give up on this one!
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks, it did take me on a bit of a ride but happy it got there in the end.
@Hounddoggy33
@Hounddoggy33 2 года назад
@@CRG You on holiday?
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
@@Hounddoggy33 No, the past couple of months have been very busy with work and DIY in the house. Hoping to get back to videos over Easter. Thanks for asking.
@Flashy7
@Flashy7 2 года назад
What a fault, that trace did not look that bad at all, I think it was everybody else's last suspect, too...
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
It certainly didn't look broken, even looking under the highest magnification I have I can't see the damage. Must just have been a hairline fracture of the copper.
@morantaylor
@morantaylor 2 года назад
9v line gets rectified and provides a 50/60 Hz square wave used for RTC clock.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks for letting me know.
@fra4455
@fra4455 2 года назад
Great vídeo CRG
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks
@Tjuwantjutju
@Tjuwantjutju 2 года назад
Happy hello everyone. Like butten activated
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks
@zx85
@zx85 10 месяцев назад
Great fix! Very satisfying 🎉
@deborahberi3249
@deborahberi3249 2 года назад
Excellent Video which is a perfect example of a non-standard fix or fault. Completely reminds one to stay on their toes when troubleshooting! -Mark.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Absolutely, its not always going to be a failed component although granted a damaged trace like that bound to be a rare thing.
@QunMang
@QunMang 2 года назад
For the game selection to test the sound, my eye was on Donkey Kong thinking of an 8-bit dance party. Different channel though, and probably not even the right Donkey Kong. Good work though.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
That is the same Donkey Kong and while I do enjoy a good 8 bit dance party that's Adrian's thing plus that tune from Last Ninja 3 is fantastic and I hadn't heard it in a while.
@QunMang
@QunMang 2 года назад
@@CRG I stand corrected, and you are right- that LN3 tune is great.
@renepedersen7141
@renepedersen7141 2 года назад
Broken trace can be hard to find. I really like repair videos, thanks :)
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thank you for watching. Plenty of other stuff piled high here waiting repair so hopefully something that will interest you in the future too.
@Plan-C
@Plan-C 2 года назад
Enjoyed that thanks. Nice work! Really thought you had it there after the broken trace. Wsn't expecting the blown fuse on top.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
At least that was easier to fix 😂
@FernandoMagaldiCachoeiro
@FernandoMagaldiCachoeiro 2 года назад
Excelente vídeo. Parabéns e obrigado!
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks for saying so.
@IDK-bf9lv
@IDK-bf9lv 2 года назад
Great watch
@christianlarsen1070
@christianlarsen1070 2 года назад
A look at the keyboard matrix reveals that all the characters are related to row 0.
@nickolasgaspar9660
@nickolasgaspar9660 Год назад
The issues might appear to be silly but they were really tricky. I also have a C64c with unexplained surface corrosion something that I don't find on other 8bit machines.
@inserttanjiromeme5496
@inserttanjiromeme5496 Год назад
Good Job!
@steveaustin4118
@steveaustin4118 2 года назад
when I do silly thing like this, I just take it as lesson learned and next time look closer
@0toleranz
@0toleranz 2 года назад
It would de interesting to see what traces were affected by the corrosion. Maybe the one of them carried the 9 volts to the CIAs and also to the color ram and killed it and blew the fuse in the process. It’s just a wild guess but you never know. Nice fix though - been fun to watch.
@wimwiddershins
@wimwiddershins 2 года назад
Nice one! Another C64c back in the game. :)
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
I'm just happy it worked out in the end.
@dorianbussenius8501
@dorianbussenius8501 2 года назад
As good as the Diag cart is I have seen it miss problems easily, I just did a C64 breadbin with an issue of fastload carts not working and normal loading results in mostly failed loading. Diag said both CIA were OK, I tested them with a tester that test the CIA chips and yeah one was actually bad on Channel A... if I swapped them then the Diag cart finds the bad CIA but otherway round... so yeah Diag cart can lead you in the wrong direction..... Corrosion... does more damage than it looks.. good repair!
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
I think its possible that a partly faulty CIA may work in one position and not the others, fairly sure I've read that somewhere before. I suppose in your case the chip was still working in terms of passing the diag test but had a failure elsewhere. I was surprised that the corrosion damaged the trace as it did. I can't see the break so it must just be a hairline crack. Perhaps whatever that was split on the board while corroding the surface stressed the copper cracking it.
@dorianbussenius8501
@dorianbussenius8501 2 года назад
@@CRG Since there were scratches on the board I would say someone was chasing the original issue of the blown fuse (no audio) the color ram probably died from sitting around, seen that heaps... the corrosion was probably drink or repair fluid spilt while over the board.... amazing how the faults pile up and your chasing more than one thanks to bad handling
@decidedly_retro
@decidedly_retro 2 года назад
I must admit that as soon as the ROM cartridge didn’t boot I’d have suspected the address and data lines going to the cartridge port rather than the chips. However, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
It's not in the video but I did check the databus at the CPU and it looked fine but it didn't cross my mind to check same at the expansion. Lesson learnt on my part though, it'll be the first thing I check in any future similar repairs.
@decidedly_retro
@decidedly_retro 2 года назад
Yeah, though given that the machine was mostly working but not reading the cartridge I would have started just “listening” to the buses at the cartridge port. That would have probably have flagged up that D0 looked either quiet or just odd, probably floating.
@Kerveros1904
@Kerveros1904 2 года назад
The first and original Matrix number generator effect before the movie appears. Maybe it is the proof that the Matrix exists.
@jeffreyphipps1507
@jeffreyphipps1507 2 года назад
Wouldn't be a C-64 if it didn't have a set of odd issues combining into something you hadn't seen before.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
This is true, all part of the fun though!
@Ghost82uk
@Ghost82uk 2 года назад
Just to answer your question mate, the system clock is calculated by the mains frequently, meaning if you don't have the 9v AC you don't get the clock
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Thanks for letting me know 👍
@safatkhan676
@safatkhan676 Год назад
You accent is awesome!
@Gilerajohannes
@Gilerajohannes 2 года назад
I think that Pla on the "new" model is called super pla, I have newer seen a super pla go bad only the old model pla, but at first look on the screen it looks like a bad pla but if I remember right then the whole screen woud be filled with lethers and numbers and symbols when it's powered on, I have repaird some commodore c64 bords but with the old model pla the later ons are in the Commodore c64g or in c64c slimline model like the one in the video, but in 2010 I had to sell my collection of Commodore 64ers and Amiga's it's a long story but can say one thing bad economy and no job at that time, and had a bad sholder joint problem but im ok now and got a good job now, but my Commodore 64 days are gone, the worst thing is that I took no image backup of my floppy discs that hurts a bit
@philb2831
@philb2831 2 года назад
Really like you video I like how you explained your thought process. Liked and subbed Where do you get your spares from?
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Sorry for the late reply but for spare parts I always try www.retroleum.co.uk/ first. Always hold a decent stock of parts and at a reasonable price!
@dr.ignacioglez.9677
@dr.ignacioglez.9677 8 месяцев назад
I LOVE C64❤❤ FOREVER ❤❤❤❤
@CRG
@CRG 8 месяцев назад
Hard to beat a Commdore 64, it is a lovely system and they are always a pleasure to work on.
@PJBonoVox
@PJBonoVox 2 года назад
Hope you're well dude. It's been a long time in RU-vid land since your last video.
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
It has been a long time but all is well, thanks for asking. I've been doing a lot of work around the house, we got a new kitchen and it's taken most all my spare time. That's done now so next job is a redress of the man cave then I'll be back to videos. All being well I'll be back next week.
@42markk42
@42markk42 2 года назад
@@CRG So that didn't go to plan .... Hope to see you back soon 👍
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
@@42markk42 things rarely go to plan, in fact the past few weeks have been very busy with work and family stuff. But the work in the man cave is all done so all being well videos will return next week.
@micflynn1
@micflynn1 Год назад
You missed that the joystick ports are also connected to the keyboard port 1012 goes to the joystick Port you could have a shorted capacitor a shorted resistor I'm short between pins so you should look at your schematics a little closer before you jump to the soldering chips not saying that it was wrong but it might have saved you some trouble
@paulspark7287
@paulspark7287 2 года назад
Isn't that similar to what happens when you wiggle the joystick in port 1?
@SocrateTheCat
@SocrateTheCat 2 года назад
Thank you for this great video but I have a question about a C64C short board. I got the fuse joke. But since I put in a new one, I have the timers of dead test cartridge which works intermittently. (it remains at zero and I have no music). Do you have any idea where I could look? Thank you
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
Check if you have 9 volt on the vdd pin of the Sid, top right pin looking at the chip. If that is missing then you have another fault after the fuse. The C64C schematics are easy enough to find online you can follow the 9v rail on that.
@SocrateTheCat
@SocrateTheCat 2 года назад
@@CRG Thank you for your answer. I found the cause and it's a 2nd joke with the fuse. One of the fuse holder clamps was not tight enough so the fuse was not touching the edges. But visually we couldn't see anything, i found the cause randomly by taking my measurements by pressing the fuse. I tightened the clamp and it's ok now.
@darrenjkendall
@darrenjkendall 23 дня назад
Might have to send you my 64 so you can work your wizardry on it, when i connect it to power and video it just doesn't do anything anymore 😢😢
@peterbilt3385
@peterbilt3385 2 года назад
Really enjoyed this. I don't have the repair skills or kit to diagnose, but I do have 2 recently acquired working breadbins and would very much appreciate if anyone knows of someone trustworthy the UK who would be able to repair my c64's for a reasonable price if I have issues?
@CRG
@CRG 2 года назад
I would recommend joining one of the user groups on the likes of facebook or perhaps discord. There's loads of people out there who would happily get you up an running again should one of the machines fail. One common source of failure though is the power supply. When they go bad the 5V line can go very high frying various components (usually the ram goes first). You might have noticed that inline with my power supply I am using a power saver which is designed to cut the power as soon as the 5V goes above 5.2 (I think might be 5.3). I'd highly recommend either getting one of those or one of the new power supplies.
@peterbilt3385
@peterbilt3385 2 года назад
@CRG Thank you very much. I don't use Facebook, but I have already purchased one of those Electroware replacement PSU's from Poland yesterday (new revision) which sound ok and won't be using the original ones again!
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