Most people are saying they prefer the Gold. I bought the s75-pvc AFTER watching this video. People who go this deep down the rabbit hole often forget that guitars DON'T "cut through the mix" on their favorite mastered album tracks that much. They just fit in. I don't know if I've actually heard a guitar part poke out on any of my favorite records as much as it seems like the Celestion would. As far as live situations go, just use a properly voiced drive or boost WHEN YOU NEED TO STAND OUT. The Celestion kind of gives me immediate ear fatigue, to be honest. The transients are so percussive. It's all personal taste in the end. Been a fan for quite a while, Joe. Thanks for this one. I think the Scumback will suit my playing well :)
This is true. Many guitarists (and other musicians like bassist) always want more midrange and it’s a classic “more isn’t always more” situations . Infact mixers don’t tend to boost the midrange of the guitar , they tend to boost the lower end of what they polished up and the high end grind. Guitars in mixed songs that sound polished are not super heavy in the low mids or range where the guitar sounds “hard”. Often the guitars sound kinda airy. And also on real life it’s brutal to listen to at loud volumes too. When it comes to professional recording it’s about what sounds best first then you can figure out how to mix everything else in. A lot of people do use v30s or greenbacks but again you only end up hearing the high end the most usually. Obviously it all matters in context, amp head, cab, etc..
Hi Joe. To me the Scumback is a bit weird. It seems to smooth too much the highs and lows (you can hear it with the ES330) and when you played the Strat it sounded muffled. With the SG it was slightly better but, still, i hear it muffled. The Celestion is still the king in my book.
Really appreciate these videos you do Joe, easily some of the best I've come across. I know I'm not the first you've heard this from, but it's really obvious in comparison with speakers that have very different efficiency ratings that you just can't get an honest sense of how they compare tonally without normalizing the audio excerpts. I came away much preferring the Gold like everyone else when I first listened to this. Then I decided to take some excerpts into my DAW and level match the two so it's apples to apples and WOW what a difference that made. Volume is a hell of a drug, they are extremely similar speakers after all! Really the scumback sounds to me almost exactly like the gold with that spike in the upper midrange pulled back. It's more balanced, but still very similar.
I've started doing speaker comparisons a little differently nowadays - I tend to start of with everything equal to show the sensitivity differences, and then match the levels to better compare the EQ etc. Gives the best of both worlds :-)
Both are great , Joe. I'm always glad to see the beauty of the Gold AlNiCo remains the same along the years, in my opinion sounds rounder and at the same time with richer mid-lows. Keep these comparisons coming mate!
That overdriven stuff with the SG really favored the Celestion Gold. In fact, they were very close at lower amounts of overdrive and the Gold got more and more "gooder" as the amount of overdrive went up. I wonder how they compare when it comes to breakup due to volume? My choice would be the Celestion Gold.
Hi Joe! Firstly, I love watching your speaker videos and comparisons. Always highly enjoyable, excellent playing, and with the right mix of chords and arpeggios which truly demonstrate the various speakers and their attributes. Now, on to the Scumback S75 PVC. I have owned a pair of these which were fitted in an open backed Cornell 2x12 cab. I found them to be great sounding whilst playing alone in the studio or at home. However, as soon as the speakers were used in a real band context ( loud drums and bass etc), they kind of disappeared in the mix. The celestion alnicos ( blues, golds and creams) always stayed present with plenty of punch, retaining all the right midrange and clarity when playing as a band. In this demo, I have to say the gold wins for me (even though I have always preferred the tone and feel of the original blue). It displays the right punch, and clarity whilst also retaining some of that beautiful alnico chime and sparkle By the way, I am also a huge Fane A60 fan. How about an a60 Vs Scumback demo soon? Keep up the excellent work !
Basically ( and to clarify) I found the Scumback S75 to be great for lowish volume jangle, but once you give the speaker some more powerful riffage, it gets a little too soft and mushy in comparison to the Gold
I had an SC75 30 watt scumnico that paired well with the reissue Blue.The Scumnico was smoother - almost too smooth while the reissue Blue is hyper jangly - they balanced each other out tonally in my AC30cc.The Blue was louder but the Scumico moderated the sound and filled in the lower mids while producing nice extended sparkle (nice,not unbalanced at all)
I'm on the fence about getting a Celestion Gold 50wt for my 1983 Marshall JCM 800 4010 1x12 combo. Its bone stock decked out in the best tubes and has a Rola Celestion G-12 80 in it now - but I think the Gold will be a tonal upgrade after watching a few of your video comparisons. Thanks for doing all the vids on the Gold speaker I appreciate it - also nice to see a fellow lefty who can lay it down! Good work man!
That portion between 7:30 thru 8:03 was very revealing. The Gold definitely sounds much louder and fuller at the SAME volume but what if the Scumback had the volume turned up to equal the gold? Then you might end up concluding that the Scumback is smoother and more evenly sensitive to highs and lows. Or, you might conclude that the Scumback seems to sound muffled in comparison to the Gold. My best guess is that the Gold would tend to ride certain frequencies and sometimes seem harsh during overdriven tones. I do own a 4x12 loaded with Scumback S75s but I don't have and never owned a Celestion Gold. I have owned Celestion Blues concluding that the crunch tones they offer is not what is in my head for typical 60's/70's rock, but the clean tones were what makes a Vox sound like a Vox. I've had a Celestion "Cream" alnico, loved the clean tones, but I didn't like the overdriven tones. My conclusion: Un-deniably, about 90% of the rock made in the '67 - '74 period was done thru Celestion Greenbacks (Cream/Hendrix/Led Zeppelin/Deep Purple/Free and many others). Marshall, started to install the ceramic "Greenback" speakers as soon as they were available which was about 1966. I don't claim to be a hard boiled speaker expert, I'd think I wasted a good portion of my life if I did earn that tittle unless I was a speaker and or amp builder:) I'm just sharing some knowledge and experience I've picked up over about 45 years.
Scumback all the way for me. Its much more equalized and articulate on the cleans. I would chuck the reissue P12N in the mix next time. For what you were playing its a good middle of the ground option to both of these with the added advantage of being only 97db sensitivity. Fella called @fiveightandten has back to backs for all these speakers in a Deluxe and I got to say I just don't dig the Gold's flabby derriere.
I have a 2x12 with golds and a couple of the scumbacks. I prefer the golds, but the Scumback works better with a closed back. Adds the fullness the gold already has. Like it’s half blue half gold?
And coming back, my golds sound like yours, but when I put the S75 in an amp I can’t get the treble I want. Do speakers “fall asleep” like acoustic guitars? Some have been sitting awhile.
I was actually about to put together a 4x12 of the s75-pvc’s but after watching this now I’m thinking maybe I should be doing golds which I wasn’t even considering before. Do you find that the gold is ever too harsh?
It can be - but sometimes 'harsh' is the right sound you need for a sound that works in a band/mix. Same with the Scumback - sometimes it can feel a bit relaxed in the mids, but that can work too for certain things. For me, I love having the two in the same cab as they a) sound great together, but b) it gives me the option of micing both in different ways for different effects. So if it were me, I'd go for two of each in a X-pattern as they compliment each other really well :-)
For every person wanting the volumes normalised there's another wanting to hear the difference in sensitivity rating. Lots of decisions and compromises to be made in a speaker comparison, and you can't please everybody.
Joe, I don't think the Scumbacks hold up to being comparable to the Celestions. If I were you I'd be glad I'm on the Celestion side of the pond. Not one single example brought the Scumbacks even close to the Celestions. Rick
