Very true. Most peole do that. Live for today; worry about the future when it happens. I don't have excess money to put aside in case insurance doesn't cover something. Individual condo owners have little control over what the board does or doesn't do. As pointed out in the video, planing for capital expendatures in the future isn't in the cards today. Mismanagement of the funds is a disaster waiting to happen. But no one could have predicted this $100,000 assessment instigated by the State. Unless there's an unknown option, setting up a payment plan might be the only way for the association to avoid BK and/or condemnation of the building as uninhabitable. Gloom and doom.
@@danburch9989 The association should not be allowed to run anything without a prudent reserve set aside or a line of credit that would allow everyone to make payments instead of a lump sum.
@@danburch9989 In most cases the owner is the one responsible. As there are multiple owners, the association is responsible. Past mismanagement now causing current fees seems wrong... I wonder if a case could be brought against the association and or/past owners somehow, similar to how one might sue a previous homeowner or association for failure to disclose, or some form of gross negligence. Definitely curious where these stories go.
@@skutchBlobaum Correct. I believe the law requires that a reseve fund account be established as part of their corporate charter to be allowed to operate by the State. FL does but some states surprisingly do not (but I hope they do on their own). It's impossible to be 100% prepared for the future. The gov't has an endless supply of money that the rest of us don't - but they think we do.
Don't buy a condo in Florida because of the special assessment. Don't buy a stand-alone home in Florida, because a sinkhole may swallow it. Don't buy any home within 20 miles of the coast in Florida, because a hurricane will eventually destroy it. And whatever home you do buy in Florida, you'll find you can't afford to insure it.
I love all these Florida haters.. in actuality you can't afford to live here, so stay were you are. we live in NE Florida.. On the Ocean, have no problem with insurance, and live in Paradise .. Ha. Actually on the beach now with my Dog..
@@joemancurreri6635 Ha, ha ha. I'm a five generation Florida native, we own the east slope of Clay Hill in Pasco county, my grandfather was a founding member of Florida Citrus Mutual. We do all possible to discourage more immigrants and encourage those already here to go back up I-95 where they came from.
The only condo associations caught off guard are those with years of poor association management. I was on a board for years and constantly fought to make sure we had the appropriate capital reserves in place. 90% of the people want nothing more than to keep the monthly fee low even if that meant not collecting the needed fees for future repairs.
My spouse was on the condo board and it was the same situation. The attitude for most owners was that they were likely not going to be there when big things needed to be done so why should they be paying more to keep an adequate reserve. The issue is those people will vote like minded people on to the board if there are some running.
Absolutely right. I was on the board & they only wanted low fees, didn’t care about anything else. In 2022 heard of new Florida laws to be implemented, sold immediately, 5 story building, now hoa fees are extremely expensive.
Hubby inherited a Condo in Ormond Beach, Florida. He decided he would go ahead and sell it, and the sale closed a week before the surfside collapse. He chose to sell it without a realtor, but we were all much relieved to get it sold, especially after the collapse.
What happens if a condo owner refuses to pay the special assessment? Can they just squat there for the rest of their lives? There needs to be some legislative relief. Or could you take out a 20-year second mortgage and pay $5,000 a year?
@@MLenninger Steve covered that in the video. The condo association can go as far as foreclosing on the condo and using any equity to pay the assessment without the owner's consent. Any leftover equity would be returned to the owner.
@@joemancurreri6635 For reference, I stated: "Hubby inherited a Condo in Ormond Beach, Florida. He decided he would go ahead and sell it, and the sale closed a week before the surfside collapse. He chose to sell it without a realtor, but we were all much relieved to get it sold, especially after the collapse." and your response was: "rmond beach is not within 200 miles of the surfside building.. Are you folks OK? Comments here are so un-educated," Not sure how or why you thought I was saying anything about the distance between the two. (I wasn't) Are YOU okay? I guess you are right, comments on here can *definitely* be un-educated.
Over the years of watching this channel I've learned that there are 2 things you should never buy: an RV, and any property in Florida that is either a condo or under the control of an HOA.
Yeah because the people buying them are corpos and flippers. They don't plan on owning the condo longer than a few years and plan on making money off it. Instead of using it as a place to live. So their incentives are to lower the fees and maintenance as much as possible so it lands on the next guy. Eventually it comes to a head, the building falls down or legalities hit and the people who DO use their condos as homes get the short stick.
This is why I don’t get the people who want more multi family housing instead of expanding suburbia. We need more people to own their own chunk of land with their own house on it. We don’t need to be stacked on top of each other.
When we threw out the Board of our co-op, they had neglected all repairs to pretend they never had to raise the maintenance. We saved ourselves just in time.
And that's the core problem, the maintenance of the building is beyond what any homeowners sees as 'theirs' (it's not theirs, btw). Also the costs involved in maintaining a building are much higher than most homeowners understand, especially if you have structural problems. It's pretending that a bunch of people that understand what it takes to maintain a ranch style house will accept the drastically increased cost of maintaining a building; a building they don't own and have no control over. It's a bad plan from the start.
The homeowners elect the boards. The problem is the board members are just homeowners with no construction experience, no experience in interpreting laws, no experience in any of it and they make decisions based on professionals they hire. Those professionals are licensed to manage properties by the state, but there is a conflict of interest in that those professionals are making recommendation to maximize their profits at the expense of the HOA. HOA board members are often lambs to the slaughter by paid professionals who know a lot more about how to game the system than the owners. The board members usually have jobs and families and you make ZERO compensation for serving on an HOA board.
My Mom owns a rental condo. The association manages a large number of buildings that each have 5 units. They tried to pass a special assessment to replace the roof on the building where the association president owns a unit while ignoring other buildings that also have roof problems. It didn't go over well.
It's a shame that these condo associations haven't been assessing owners for the past ~30 years for reserves to address these issues. Selling now, you realize a severe reduction of value (or risk fraud). We looked at buying a condo on Florida's coast, but feared this very issue.
How do you anticipate that the state is going to pass a law that is going to significantly increase the common expenses. The members would be screaming bloody murder if they had hundreds of thousands of extra money in the account that had no planned place to go. This is why I would never be a partial owner of a common property.
The problem is they have been, but corporate greed has taken the place of corporate responsibility and longevity so they didn't reserve the money as they should have and now they're passing the buck. There are currently more irresponsible real estate companies in the US than responsible ones. The responsible companies have been getting bought out for the last ~35 years by the quick cash earning capitalists. It's easier to grow faster and quicker if you cut as many corners as possible then use those proceeds to buy up the competition so you won't have to compete long-term.
Many condo owners in florida at least are not permanent residents. A family friend has a condo near Daytona, and in their building only a quarter live there year round. It is very hard to get the "investment" types to spend any type of money that will not provide a return next year when they sell, or allow an increase in rent. These "investor types", retired people(most of the permanent residents), are hesitant to spend money by choice and need. These voices tend to be louder than the guy saying, lets set aside 20 million to get a new roof, ac units, ect. in 10 years starting today. Now you are the "bad guy" telling grandma she needs to pay extra per month on her condo morgage and you get defeated in the comitie meetings. The collapsed condo had arguments like this going back years, with many people bringing up issues, and others putting it off to when they need to spend the money.
What you have is a reassessment of the current value to reflect the ~30 years of lacking maintenance. If you let a house run down that long without adequate repairs your property value will reflect that.
Meh. You’re only hearing the “horror stories”. Terrible things happen to people living outside of HOAs that could have avoided them had they bought in an HOA. People buy every single day into HOAs, live there for decades, and have little/no problems. YMMV.
@@JosephEllis-ep7sg How would you ever know that unless you’ve experienced them? There’s literally hundreds of thousands of HOAs in the US, and yet you KNOW the good ones are “minuscule” in number? Nonsense.
Years or decades of irresponsible management and boards delaying repairs in the interest of low monthly assessments is coming back to bite homeowners in the posterior.
Don't blame the boards, it is the owners who resist mainenance because it costs money. Now they HAVE to take care of those decades of neglect and are crying.
Sounds very familiar...they leaned it from government... It's an interesting reflection of human nature playing out...very predictable but when called into question is always denied and defended with the same flawed reasoning and rehtoric...
Dade county resident here - this place is so wildly corrupt that I’m surprised more buildings haven’t collapsed. Even the new buildings are garbage with leaking pool decks, deteriorating balconies, and plumbing issues galore - let alone rampant self-dealing on the governing boards. Unsurprisingly, condo prices are dropping while non-HOA single family homes keep going up.
@@Tommiejeffs Oh boy…one you. If we’re already awful and only getting worse then just leave. It’ll make it easier for us to work together without the friction of having such negative people in the voting booths.
@@v-2010 yeah, I’m one of those lousy Americans that prefers not to have books banned, that people have access to healthcare, and not have our tax dollars wasted on political stunts like flying Venezuelans from Texas to New York. God forbid us apparently unworthy Floridians stay and fight for basic civil rights.
It amazes me that an association wouldn't have standard fees that are paid over, let's say, 30 years, knowing that a roof is going to have to be replaced. Surely people must know that buildings need repairs on a regular basis?
The problem is the unit owners have to vote to raise the dues to pay the expenses. Expenses raise every years and usually require a majority vote. The unit owners rarely show up at annual meetings and nothing ever gets increased-then when shit hits the fan they all get mad that someone else should have done something. Our condo has paid the same dues(200 per month) from 1996-2022. And we were losing money every year. We had to quit all maintenance except mowing and it wasn’t until we faced losing our insurance that we had enough people attend a meeting to raise our dues-all of which complained that we had not been maintaining our building despite not having a dime to do it with
Corruption on the board, inflation, owners voting down any increases. Many owners are also not residents, and sublease, flip, ect. and are unwilling to spend money on a repair after they have sold. Why should I pay for a new roof in 10 years when im selling next year, I vote no. Meanwhile that 100 buck increase would have covered the new roof cost, but now you need 50k for an emergency repair this year cause no one paid 100 bucks a month extra for a few years for a routine replacement.
@@bbokc6942This has been my experience. Especially owners who own multiple units as rentals, but pretty much everyone votes against any increase, then complains when the big assessments come.
@@bbokc6942 : Perhaps the rules can be changed so that voters present are sufficient if the vote is held at a monthly scheduled meeting that has been anounced monthly with door hangers and is kept on schedule, with the issue having been read fully for perhaps the past three months and the meeting having been held on schedule at least nine times in the past twelve months, *or else* the meetings should be held partially on a well published and accessible virtual forum with all business repeated there and at a live meeting, and votes taken over a week. So, no one can sneak anything in, but everyone doesn't have to get involved if they don't want to, and business still can happen as needed. And the dues should be locked to local housing inflation and deflation.
I am a president of a condo hoa. I have been saying for 8 years we needed to raise our dues to build a reserve(we had nothing in reserves). This year we had to pass an assessment of 15k to replace our roofs or face cancelation of insurance. This year was the first year I was able to get the homeowners to vote for a dues increase to build a reserve and not have to have these lump sum assessments. The truth is you can defer maintenance but eventually you will have to pay that bill. To me it’s easier to pay in increments instead of a lump sum
I actually lived in a reasonable HOA. When the six foot high border fence needed to be replaced there was money saved for that purpose. The only thing we lost was an in ground hot tub when the repair/replacement cost was too high and there were too few of us who used it regularly. The HOA was instrumental in closing down a couple of puppy breeding mills operating under the town's radar. The monthly meetings were always well attended. Good and involved residents made the difference.
Deferring necessary repairs would costs more for everyone. The costs goes up every year because of inflation and the percentage increase is almost always larger than the percentage increase of your income. Also, some insurance companies would not cover liabilities due to damage/injury from something in which the repairs were deferred and it is because of the condo's negligence.
It's the HOA's responsibility to pay for expected upkeep and repairs, a roof lasts for 30 years, funds should be set aside so when the time comes, there is no special assessment. etc...
I’ve lived in a couple HOAs, and they have all required an outside company to come in, look at all the common property, estimate its lifetime, its anticipated replacement cost, and use that to create a reserve study. The HOA is required to fund the reserves, and when you follow the reserve plan you have money on hand to replace stuff like roofs, swimming pools, landscaping, etc when it’s time to replace it.
Facilities manager here. What you're describing is called an envelope inspection. All HOA's have them and they're supposed to be performed by a licensed company once a year. However, the inspection report is only a recommendation, and the HOA board doesn't have to follow it.
We had to pay over 70k for an assessment on a condo we own in South Carolina. I could afford it but there were people in our complex who had to sell and move. People who were retired and had lived there for years.
ANY property with an HOA or POA is a terrible retirement plan. It's ALWAYS at risk; they'd have been better off to just rent, an apartment at least represents stable, predictable costs (because the complex owner bears the major repair costs and manages splitting them among all the rent collected), are easier to get out of, and represent a 'deal' that most people understand. The lines of ownership and control with an HOA/POA are very blurred, in a manner that is NOT in the favor of the homeowner. The association retains the rights to how the property is used, the homeowner retains the responsibility to pay them based on the current rules (not necessarily the rules in place when they purchased). It's VERY risky.
If well managed, it maybe should have been spread out. But if the retired people couldn't pay in one lump sum, they wouldn't have been able to pay gradually either.
@@diegojines-us9pc wait, you mean you aren’t going to blame the car salesman you bought the car from, or maybe your mechanic, for not forcing you into a long term service program? Seriously though, I am so tired of people refusing any responsibility for their actions, it’s disgusting
It was just announced on the Local10 (television station in south Florida) website that all residents of a 170 unit condo complex in Pembroke Pines have until August 29th to vacate their places....
read the details ! the building was built in 1958! no improvements in the last 45 years! HOA fee was less than, $150. The roof has been leaking for 10 Years.. The residents voted down EVERY HOA increase, over the last 30 years! now their investment is worth "0". Good for them. They can move back North.
That's exactly what I had to do. I joined the board and sat on it for 15 years to make sure I didn't get screwed just like the people are getting screwed now. Reality check is you have to get involved if you share building with other people. You cannot trust that they will do anything in your best interest.
Or, DON'T buy in an HOA and only have to keep track of all of that for you own home and lot. Then you only have yourself to argue with, yourself to thank for saving for an emergency, and yourself to blame for not saving for expected expense. Plus you get to choose your paint colors, trees, flowers and curtains, and can still park a pickup truck in your driveway.
Caveat emptor. When buying into a HOA, condo, or any jointly owned property you must do your homework. What is the current condition? What are the finical reserves? What is the maintenance plan? Read the previous minutes of board meetings.
It may make them immune to this bill, but if the building is not kept in good condition the city can still come in and force the repairs of condemn the building.
As someone who owns a house without an HOA or other similar organization, and who has to plan and pay for the maintenance and repairs on that house, I do not understand why people who own residences where some of the maintenance is handled by an organization think they are being mistreated by having to pay for that maintenance.
I was in talks to buy a property in a council owned block the one I was renting was the only private owned in the block and I found out that the council were about to hit the owner with a large bill! I pulled out! A few months after I moved out part of the balcony collapsed!
Sending money to foreign wars to get laundered by corrupt politicians in the hundreds of billions… sending aid to all these countries that ends up in the leaders pockets and they can’t fix the aging infrastructure in our own country. Shameful and pathetic
A lot of people criticize CA (a few of the criticisms are legitimate), but the The Davis-Stirling Common Interest Development Act of 1985 was a groundbreaking piece of legislation that was the first of its kind to offer comprehensive rules and regulations for common interest developments. Ever since then, HOA's have been required to have certain reserve levels for anticipated costs. Just a smart way of running a development. I would never buy a condo or townhouse in a large building for a few reasons, but one of them would be to avoid the possibility of crazy high special assessments for structural repairs. Also, always check the financial solvency of a HOA before you buy. Make sure they have the required or enough reserves that would prevent a special assessment in the future.
Our condos in Dallas have finally gotten the attention of Dallas City Code. We have to fix everything not new, even things that are not our responsibility, the homeowners are responsible. We are having to pass multiple special assessments that will essentially bankrupt the HOA, and its homeowners.
Now you understand the point of building codes. My house was built in 1920. The contractors said they wouldn't touch it unless it got up to code. Instead we did the work ourselves and saved over 50k. The city has very happy and was confused why the contractor was charging so much. It's all a rip off game
Condo should maintain a timeline of things to be replaced that will then impact resale values, creating an incentive for owners looking to sell. If a potential buyer can see that the roof is xx years old and should be replaced soon and the current setup of funds means it is not paid for yet, that will impact how much they would pay for the condo. And in general, buyers should be made aware of if the current condo association is maintaining a fund for future repairs or not.
Condos have to have some kind of organization to maintain and manage the common expenses. I too would never buy in a condo because I will not co-own a single property. But my HOA is very good and my expenses are extremely low, less than $100 a year and the HOA manages it very well.
@@mikeslater6246 For now. But let the wrong people take control of things and new people buy units and get on the board and you might find yourself up against the wall. I live in a private lake community and that's what's happening here. Has been great for the 39 years I've lived here but things have changed over the years and the now we are facing $4K special assessments on top of $1800 a year dues and membership fees. I can afford it, but don't think we need a new office building and a new clubhouse. But the new members all think it would be just grand. I feel bad for the ones here that can't afford the new expense, they're in a bad situation.
@@mikeslater6246 I rented to own, and quit after 3 years, because the HOA board were tyrants. They tried to enforce things that the Courts had ruled illegal. I am afraid of getting into another one like that. They even tried to force me to dig up my Narcissis, because they weren't yellow daffodils even though they were in back and out front daffodils were planted
Even if you somehow bought a condo without an association, you'd just personally be on the hook for the bill without a group in the middle. This issue has nothing to do with the associations, but with the inhabitants not wanting to pay for expensive maintenance. These issues aren't unheard of in standalone homes either.
Don't know about Florida but in many states a special assessment, once levied, is the obligation of the current owner and doesn't transfer on sale so if you get a $100K assessment and have less than $100K in equity selling doesn't solve your problem.
The reason these condo owners have to pay so much now to cover repairs and a healthy reserve fund is that they haven’t been paying enough to cover repairs and a healthy reserve fund for decades. Deferred costs are still costs, they just hurt more when they all come due at once.
Just imagine.... a high-rise condo just falls down in the middle of the night because of a lack of maintenance and "deferred repairs" and suddenly all these folks living on the cheap are now forced to face reality. Kicking the can down the road catches up with you eventually.
You really have to meet the folks that live in these places. Most rent their units, and never come down except in January and February.. They complain none stop. some of the most miserable folks from NY you will ever meet. Nasty. cheap and just plain horrible. Most HOA's don't even have Board members, since no one wants to deal with them. So a management co. is basically the HOA. the buildings are falling apart.. most in the South Florida area where the folks from NY are always looking for a deal.
Wow, in Ontario there have been laws for decades requiring condos to do regular engineering reports, and to fund estimated repairs in advance. In that way the user absorbs the cost of his/her use rather than loading the costs on future owners. In advance of a sale, the reports and funding positions must be provided to the prospective buyer.
It's sad that the state has to force people to do the right and moral thing. And what did the Real Estate Agents tell these buyer about possible assessments and state of the building's reserves??? My guess is NOTHING. Just get the money and run.
One of the things I learned about various condos is to be extremely vigilant when there's a very high proportion of 'retirees' occupying the building combined with seemingly reasonable condo fees. One of the things that can happen is that an attitude of "Why should I put money aside for the future when the odds are that I won't be here when the bill comes due?" takes hold. Especially when self managed, this kind of thinking is a recipe for huge shock bills like in this story. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement, many, many retirees are extremely good with money and are very forward thinking and responsible... but it's just one more reason to heavily scrutinize the condo financials when buying in, and an even bigger reason to be active on the board to ensure that everyone is paying their fair share NOW so that nasty surprises in the future are minimized.
Most people think a low HOA fee is a "great Deal" - in truth, you are walking into a nightmare. An underfunded, poorly maintained structure. There are condo's in the Miami area with HOA fees of less than $150 a month. impossible to maintain any structure for less than $550 a month min.
The fact that the inspections are mandatory creates more demand for inspection companies. There probably aren't enough of them to be available for all the condos in Florida which drives up demand even more, further increasing prices and hanging the poorer condo associations out to dry for fines, making things even worse. I wonder if any will be turned into apartments or torn down.
I do remember that the apartment that my boss owned in a condo in NYC ended up with fees of nearly $10k a month to rebuild the capital fund after the legally required five year check on the Facade showed a lot of issues that drained the capital fund just as the roof was reaching its 30 year end of life mark..... apartment ownership can be very very expensive, more so in 100 year old buildings.
Yeah, but it's also all relative; 10k a month sounds like a lot, but for a nice place in NYC that's basically one month's rent/mortgage (maybe less). So in most areas that's realistically more like '3k a month' which is high, but isn't 3 times what I pay to live monthly. And that's assuming it's an average middle class to sub middle class living space, which it may not be, meaning that number would comparatively be even smaller.
@@TheTerryscotttaylor that was on top of the $16,000 paid in monthly service charges…. it was a triplex with terrace and east river views…. With door man and such.
Usually there are rules within the condo bylaws that cap the limit for special assessments. In my case, it is $5,000 per unit. Each unit’s fees are based on the percentage of square footage they occupy in the building. So once any unit’s assessment hits $5k that’s it. Another assessment would have to be levied
This is why having dues for occurring costs is not enough. Have to have dues that build a bank to cover those common elements. Someone will always bitch, but when 120k siding bill or an 80k roofing bill comes up you need that money in the bank, not hedged on the members paying in one transaction
If they were smart. The hoa would open a land trust using the condos as backing. They could set up a private bank and issue loans to themselves. This is what rich people do, like the Walmart family or mcdonalds
@@RipliWitani The HOA I used to belong to had that capability in the bylaws. However the board never used it. We raised the yearly maintenance fee by a small amount each year for several years to build up a reserved. We also maintained a 15 year budget. We did have one assessment during the 10 years that I was on the board to cover replacing the roofs but more than half of that cost came out of the reserve.
Bingo. These folks were members of the HOA, and could have voted in the way that avoided this. Better yet, they could have run for office and put their own hands on the information and problems. When voting members cry about the association they partially control rings hollow to me.
Years ago, when I lived in an HOA (townhouse), before I knew to stay away from HOAs, the board wanted to do a special assessment to replace leaky roofing. Although I wasn't keen on adding a couple hundred to the monthly assessment, I voted in favor - I figured the leaky roof wasn't a problem for my unit, but it probably wouldn't be too long before it was a problem for me. That said, I have no idea how I'd come up with $100k. It's not like I have piles of cash just collecting dust.
condo HOA - "we charge a monthly fee for repairs and maintenance" condo HOA - "we also charge special assessments for repairs and maintenance." condo HOA - "oh, and we also have a tip jar."
Because those things are not free. Do you think a home without an association gets free inspections and maintenance to make sure the structural integrity is good? Things have a cost and that has nothing to do with HOAs.
@@matirion Yeah, but without an HOA you control use of your property. They don't add value to the homeowner, only some very nasty risks since the board can A) charge you as much as they want for any infraction [real or imagined] daily, B) can foreclose on you for past due fines, and C) to clear the foreclosure you have to pay their attorneys (and they're not stingy with YOUR money at all!!!). If you fight them legally, you need to ensure that you clear the foreclosure legally in either case, since that will legally go into force even if your counter suit isn't handled yet. You have to clear the foreclosure and then sue them again to get all your money back IF your case against the fines goes through. In most states it won't, because they can fine you for an infraction whatever amount they want and as many times as they want. It's a VERY nasty game, and it's not designed for the homeowner to win. The only way to win is not to play.
Do these associations not have a ‘savings’? Or are they all ‘hand to mouth’? Shouldn’t the board that Steve was on been putting money aside for the inevitable new roof, instead of charging a special fee? Now that complex in Miami that is 30+ years old should have been abele to eat the cost from all the fees it’s collected
Own a house and have the freedom/responsibility to handle maintenance yourself, rent and have someone else deal with it without you being liable, or own a condo, and someone else makes all the decisions but you're stuck with the bill, and have an investment you can't walk away from.
@@BigKandRtv That assumes that you get to vote on things. Most don't. We went 4 years without a board election, and on the 5th year (after a petition of the homeowners to force an election) BAZAM! There weren't enough votes cast so the existing board stayed. Since there was no election that was valid, when one of the board members sold, she APPOINTED someone to take her seat. The election was overseen by the management company, hired by the board, and offered no way to audit even how many votes were cast (we were told by their attorney that we couldn't force them to show us anything). It's an adversarial relationship between the board and the homeowners, and a good management company will spend your budget with their contractors (taking a cut as they go and boosting their profit from that neighborhood) as long as they have a compliant board. And the management company controls the election process. So yeah, just vote, yo.
Why not just buy a camper? I've seen some decent campers for about $20K. Also, why stay in such a hot area? If you have a camper, just go up north in a camper and live in 75 degree weather.
Former Condo president here (Ontario). The new laws are things we already had here. It's shocking that they didn't exist in the first place. We did engineering assessments every year, of varying grades, per schedule. We had a reserve fund that was adequate, as required by the engineering assessments. Whole works. One year we did have to do a special assessment to bring the reserve up to spec due to the economy, but that was only about $400 per unit. The net result is we had the reputation as one of the best run buildings in the city. And yet, because we were diligent year after year, and were sensible, we kept our fees relatively cheap compared to the city average. It isn't hard to run a condo. You need to have a good property manager, and you have to be willing to put in a modicum of work, and plan for the future. And never, ever cheapen out on safety. Badly run buildings, in my experience, always come down to either ego or negligence. Also, spot on about the rules! We had a few people who whined and complained about rules (because they didn't read them before buying, usually). We'd explain how to petition to change the rules. We'd offer to HELP them with the process! No. Complaining was easier than putting in the effort.
Some people just don't have what it takes to enter into that situation and survive financially. If one does not understand that they are buying financial responsibility for the common area when they enter an HOA, they do not have what it takes to manage through it. They should NOT buy in an HOA.
@@TheTerryscotttaylor understand them. maybe. Follow them..eh, not so much. Crammed up against that many people, it's just not a way to live. I know our progressive political overlords want everyone trapped in urban gulags..err, "affordable housing" so we can live as they decree, but I'm not into that.
@@BigKandRtv most HOAs control far more than just the common areas - most problems within HOAs have nothing to do with the maintaining of the common areas such as clubhouses, pools, game courts, or even roads: most are issues dealing with the private homes
Too many people live above their means, then they wonder how to deal with things like this. They need to reduce their liabilities before the surf hits the strand I can't afford to live above my means. I'm approaching the 10th anniversary of living in my vehicle because of high rents.
The really bad news is that if an assessment is needed to cover an underfunding, the condo board is usually prevented by law from taking into consideration the ability of any unit owner to pay the assessment. Just went through this. It wasn't $100K, but was big enough that some folks had the same problem. It was almost funny when some got together and said they were going to sue the association. They didn't understand that they were actually talking about suing themselves. Even if they could come up with a new source of funds, paying it back would ultimately just come out of hugely increased fees.
People are dumb, and they like painting every problem as an us-against-them situation. Dude gets a $100k assessment in the association HE is a voting member of, then says "they"? Crocodile tears.
If you own a house.. you have maintenance! New siding, roof, pavement. these old miserable Condo owners feel everything should be "Free".. no HOA increases! cost over the last 4 years on all construction activities is up 260% ! and the HOA fees remain the same.. do the math Hammer.
I had bought a condo in 2004. Right after I took possession I got hit with a ten brand special assessment. I was pissed since there was no mention from my lawyer of this. No new laws were passed. The condo board finally decided (after being told by the city) that they had to renovate and fix the underground parking or it would be condemned. The condo board kept putting it off for years, they kept putting of large maintenance for years keeping then fees low. The fees started at $450 and after the SA the fees were $950 by the time I sold it.
It's on the buyer and buyer's agent to look at what they're buying and if there's a reserve in place from the HOA to deal with future maintenance and repairs... People are just lazy and don't look at the anything that they buy and the realtors are trying to sell as many properties they want and don't tell homebuyers any of the potential issues/costs.
You should stay in NY.. You wanted a deal. No deals in life pho. things cost money.. Good that you sold.. let someone that is willing to maintain their property live there.
@@joemancurreri6635 the condo board that was in control before I bought my condo ignored the engineering studies that said what needed to be repaired and what condition things were in. The condo board ignored the reports, and they chose not to have a reserve fund. The reserve fund is supposed to pay for expensive repairs, like the underground parking. They kept the monthly fees low by not repairing anything expensive and not creating a reserve fund. A couple months after I moved into the condo the city engineer says fix the underground parking or it’ll be condemned. The repairs were put off for so long that by that point it was several millions of dollars to fix and would take five years. The condo board was completely replaced, I got a ten grand special assessment since there was no reserve fund. The monthly fees went from $450 a month to $950. I was paying more for condo fees than I was for the mortgage. Since I had just bought the condo I didn’t have ten grand. I had to borrow it and once the fees jumped I was losing money living there. I was making about $2400 a month and was suddenly paying $2000 just for the condo. Leaving me $400 to pay for food, $500 monthly car payment, and $200 monthly car insurance, and living expenses. The condo I bought was a three bedroom. Had I known about the upcoming repairs I either would not buy in that building, or just bought a single bedroom.
if they can re-mortgage their property, then they'd need to find $7000 a year or $590 a month. Then they can find that with additional work or sell and downsize.
So you sell, and the first portion of the money you get from the sale covers the assessment. Sure hope that you got enough to cover it and pay off the loan.
Who would have thought building huge concrete structures on sand next to a salt water ocean was probably not a good idea. Apparently many of those condo buildings in south Florida were rush built using drug money. Including the one that collapsed.
I was in a HOA in NYS, they had 6+ million saved for expenses. This HOA started to save from day one. HOA’s need to read Dave Ramsey book.🤣🤣🤣 question: should we be able to sue past HOA board members for not saving for future renovations?
It’s hard to avoid in many places. As a condition of lots of developments getting approved, the city or county often times won’t approve it unless the developer builds the roads and has it be an HOA to provide for their maintenance. The government doesn’t want to care for those new roads. I’m lucky in that I live in an old neighborhood, but I haven’t seen a housing development built in 20 years that wasn’t an HOA. There’s only so many older houses, lots of people are going to be in an HOA.
This is not an HOA problem. This is multiple owners of a single property problem. The HOA was just a convenient way to manage the common expenses. The problem here was created when the state changed the law decades too late adding astronomically to the common expenses.
Have not heard a peep from my HOA in 9 years. All they do is take care of the roads, gravel so require occasional grading, and the common areas. Not all a a problem
@@mikeslater6246 There are also federal laws in play. Things like the clean water act that required that new developments have water retention ponds. Someone has to take on the maintenance of that pond. It would be great if it was the municipality. But that requires taxes. So instead of taxes people are paying HOA fees.
It’s a very interesting situation. We’re condo situations are so bad because of a lack of maintenance and a lack of forethought and basic greed of not wanting to give up their money for the future well-being of the structure they live in. For some residents, the problem did go away when the whole building went away.
Are there long term borrowing products for these condo associations? At the municipal level you have 20-30 year bonds that take care of facilities upkeep that can be structured in such a way that you don't have a huge tax impact from one year to the next. If the bonds are staggered correctly and properly managed the debt service line can stay mostly flat.
I live rural, own 22+ acres of land. No matter where I live, I will NEVER put myself in a position of having to answer to an HOA or condo, or any other 'neighborhood' association. I live rural and love it! I can do anything I want on/with my property and have to answer to nobody except the county.
People are stupid, aren’t they? I live in a house that I purchased 12 years ago for $410,000. At the time of the purchase the home was 24 years old. My wife, who formerly worked as a CPA has kept a log of every expense do to repairs we have made since the purchase, new roof, replacement of both AC systems, kitchen remodel, bulkhead replacement around pond, painting both interior and exterior etc etc. All this has cost over $135,000. Things break, things wear out and some things you want to change so you feel better about your life. Since I know this about houses I can extrapolate the same thing occurs with condos. Many pretend to be stupid and say they don’t understand why. I rest my case. People are stupid.
The municipality with the most stringent code and engineering standards (Miami Dade) started this debacle. Now, everyone in Florida has to live with this. This is a failure of Condo Associations that don’t know what they’re doing. All of these buildings have concrete spalling issues. To combat the spalling, they started requiring the rebar to be epoxy coated. But, I and many others have pointed out; “Concrete doesn’t stick to epoxy.” So, now, instead of microfissures allowing salt in to corrode the metal, we have artificially created a problem where balconies have started to fall apart even sooner because it cannot stick to the ring it was supposed to stick to. These buildings are literally falling apart AS THEY ARE BEING BUILT!
The testing they did was with very controlled epoxy coated rebar in the concrete. In reality this rebar is banged around so much the epoxy gets holes in it and the rebar was lower grade since it was coated. Rebar near salt water will oxidize and cause spalling faster. Lots of bridges with this epoxy rebar needed repairs much sooner than predicted. I blame the agencies involved with testing and approval of this new product. They should have just required more concrete coverage and higher grade concrete and oversight.
@@RAWBOT301 well, now you’ve pointed out a whole new set of issues. Coated rebar has engineering spec’s for repairing the nicks and cuts and a fix for end cuts but you don’t think everyone follows them, do you? And, yes, there needs to be a minimum thickness but that thickness cannot even be achieved in a balcony slab, especially in the corners. Even if you are full of post tension, you still need edge bars. Still need pockets and areas for embeds. It is just wild. I think I saw the epoxy stuff being used about 10yrs ago. I literally said out loud; “that’s not gonna work.” I was told they were just doing what the engineer said to do.
Concrete didn't stick to steel either which is why the re-bar is ribbed for her pleasure. The problem is epoxy coated isn't handled properly, inspectors don't do their job, contractors don't care, and everyone guilty of causing the problem is long gone before the issue surfaces years later. If the people who hold the people accountable are never held accountable, the problem will not ever be solved
There is a third option they can condemn the properties and they will be out all there money, People" Government has to do something" also people "what is the government doing they are making people spend money on not dying."
A HOA that has waited to fix problems & doesn't have funds on hand to repair minor issues and inspections is in trouble now - most companies have 3 & 5 years plans
HOAs and special assessments are why I will never buy a condo, even if the prices go way down. I almost bought one in California but the LA based management firm's HOA fee for a Sacramento condo over 10 years ago was over $300 a month, plus a gardening fee, and new owners among other things were not allowed to rent out their condos. Less than a year later I drove by the complex and they were roofing the complex and doing siding repair. I always wonder what the owners were charged for their little roofs.
When I was in an HOA townhouse, at the regular meetings there were discussions of the escrow accounts for roof, pavement, common area clubhouse/pool upkeep, insurance premium increase, as well as special assessments for things like fences, tree removal. But the health of the escrow accounts was paramount. Get to know the status of HOA cash reserves before you buy. If the HOA has next to no funds for known major unavoidable maintenance, don’t buy.
Unfortunately.. people think that a low HOA fee is a good deal.. The truth is, a low HOA fee, means a poorly funded and maintained building. You can't maintain a home for $200 a month, how can you maintain a condo for that. here in NE Florida, most HOA fees are approx. $550 a month to $1,600. if on the Ocean,, $2,500+ a month minimum. If you can't afford it.. don't buy it.
Take it from me, don't ever buy into an HOA. For ten years, I was a facilities manager for what was at the time the largest apartment-to-condo conversion ever attempted in WA State. If these folks are getting a 100k special assessment, then previous board members deferred maintenance of the property in order to keep the monthly dues artificially low while at the same time keeping their popularity amongst the community high to stay elected. But, eventually the issues pile so high, that an assessment must be done or the dues tripled or more because the problems can't be hidden anymore. Usually by this time, the folks on the board who had foreknowledge of what was on the horizon and who kept the dues low for their own benefit, sell their homes and get the heck out of there before the new board comes in and finds the turd that's been left and orders the assessment. I've seen it happen.
The wear and tear on the property is happening as you live there, so yeah, you should be charged and the money should be held in reserve, with interest.
In Canada.... Because I think in the usa, they can just jack up your rent to whatever they want. In Canada, it's law that you can only jack up the rent for your tenants by 2 or 3% per year.
@jakefriesenjake depends on the province. BC, for example it's rate 2 percent up to 3% depending on the year or you have to apply to the tenancy board for special permission. One of the Atlantic provinces I know don't have this rule and it's causing their rents to rise way faster than inflation
@@RichieRich20000 When a landlord lets a property degrade, the landlord is on the hook for the financial loss, and you may have to move out. When a condo association lets a property degrade, YOU are on the hook and still might have to move out with no equity left over.
We have similar to a condo board in Sweden they are elected every year. Old and well maintained condo with good economy tends to sell for more . The monthly fee is in average around 850$ (depends on location/city. Newer builds has higher fees because no stable economy yet/expensive to build. Before we buy a condo we look up what is the condos economy, how well is it maintained, is it going to be major work done that can affect the fee.(the board should be able to tell that and the records are by law public) If it has structural damage or example a lift dosent work it can bee penaltys. Here wee need to build so people in wheelchairs/disabled can live there and if a lift dosent work they cant.(if the condo is old when renovating it must be fitted) And its also for paramedics. We would never see a "shockingly" high one time cost because the board would put it on the monthly fee if they need to take a loan for the repairs. (a good maintained condo would not need to take loans)
Never, ever ever ever ever ever, buy a building attached to another building, a portion of a building, or a building that you don't own the land, mineral rights and water rights to. Ever
These same people saw their property value increase by 100% in only a few years. No rational person feels sorry for those who refuse to be responsible and maintain their property.
Remember, this only applies for three story and higher. Plus, within 3 miles of the coast. People move to Florida and think they can live the bless live. Not going to happen. Can not afford it do not come. To many homes are built in dangerous areas, expect the government to take care of them. Usually, the owner must pay fees before they close. There is no reason for the condo to work with the owners. As a person who family lives in Florida over 100 years, I have no feelings for people who are greedy.
Which people? The lawmakers trying to avoid a tragedy? The condo association forced to follow the law and perform upkeep? The owners who thought that buying an apartment meant that they didn't have to maintain the building it's part of?
Do your homework. As a potential buyer, you will have access to building records, previous and future maintenance plans as well as what kind of cash reserves the COA has on-hand. Never buy if there is little to no reserves and/or if no history or planned maintenance is available. The COA has to make all of this known to potential buyer.
Except that there was documentation. Pictures from someone who was brought out to look at the condo that collapsed prior to collapse (nearly a year beforehand) and had told the owners "You need to fix these various issues or this building is going to collapse!" The engineers in question were quite 'period and done with' on those terms.
The Surfside collapse was the result of multiple issues, some of them from when it was constructed, some from later changes, and some from lack of maintenance. Changing any one of them probably would have prevented it because of safety margins. There were changes between approved plans and actual construction, later additions that added weight, and exposed rebar rusting which weakened the material. The collapse didn't have a single cause, it had a series of issues that all added up until it was too much.
Here in the Netherlands VVE (HOA) by law needs a reserve of 0,5 % of the rebuilding costs. They need a long-term maintenance plan translated to yearly costs. Furthermore, more there are yearly operational costs ( lighting, elevators, etc.) On average results in 200 - 700 euros per month.
My neighbor's landlord dumped his Hurricane Ian assessment on her in one year. He locked her in, she was month to month and raised her rent $500 a MONTH.
Renters are at the mercy of the landlord and the issues the landlord has to deal with. Someone has to pay the landlord's mortgage, insurance, maintenance & repairs, taxes, retirement fund, plus a profit, etc. All that is in the rent.
@@doom4067 The LL can charge any amount they want. And if the tenant doesn't agree to pay, they look for another place to live and the LL looks for another tenant. Month to month allows LL to change the rent every month. But the tenant can move out any month. 30 days notice form both sides. A lease locks the rent and the tenant for the duration of the lease.
@@danburch9989 "Renters are at the mercy of the landlord and the issues the landlord has to deal with" That's really ironic you'd make that comment on this story. Renters are not "at the mercy" of the landlord. If these condo owners had been renting, they could just find another place to rent, leaving the landlord stuck with the $100k bill. It's the renter who holds ultimate power over whether or not they will continue renting. Once a landlord annoys a renter more than it would cost them to find another rental and move, the landlord loses. If as claimed a renter was month to month, and got locked into a year lease with a $500/mo increase, it only happened because she agreed to it. She was probably outraged at the increase. But when she looked for another rental, she found out the landlord had been undercharging her all this time. So even with the $500/mo increase it was still competitive with similar rentals. So she agreed to a year lease at the higher rent. She then complained to her friends about a $500/mo increase just so she could gripe. When in reality she had been paying $500/mo below market up til then.
@@danburch9989 Depends on local and regional laws. Where I live, a LL can only raise rent once a year and can only raise it up to a max % I cant remember off hand.
This happened in Ontario not long ago. The govt passed a new law that changed the math for the minimum amount a condo has to have in the reserve fund. Lots of condos saw huge rate increases or special assessments to make up the difference. But now many years on I'm glad they did.... When the dust settles on this one it's going to be for the better
