"Controversial" Choreography 

Share your opinions and experiences as well! To be honest I struggled to find a proper structure - it turned more into a "thoughts I associate with this topic" type of video. I also realized that I don't have much to say about my own background: I don't have ill feelings towards it and I don't think it harmed me in any way, but I do side eye some choreos that we performed on stage looking back lol

For the Enhypen situation at 3:00, the answer seems quite obvious. Men are stereotypically considered the 'active' party when it comes to sexuality, whereas women are expected to be passive. Thus, people often don't consider young boys victims when they are sexualized (here we have Niki dancing to Fever but we can also think of interviewers asking a teenage Justin Bieber about his sex life). During Bite Me era, on one hand, we had some fans who got jealous of the female dancers and who used the argument of underage sexualization as an excuse to complain. On the other hand, we had a second group of fans who realized how strange it was for Niki to be sexualized because a second party was suddenly involved (the female dancers). (IMO, the concerns of the second group of Niki fans are more legitimate.)

I think Hwasa's case is very interesting, because other idols dress and act provocative like her, but it seems like the difference here is that Hwasa clearly does it not only just because she wants to (which is true for many idols who do sexy concepts, ofc), but because it's often not serving the "male gaze". I don't know if this makes sense, but to me it feels as if she dances provocatively as if to portray "I love how sexy I am and I am feeling it" rather than "I want straight men to look at my body". Nothing wrong with that either of course, but it seems like it's the first attitude that gets all the backslash. It feels really unfair idk.

1:10 I attend dancehall and twerk classes! My dance studio used to have dancehall queen style classes marked as "14 and above (at least 16 recommended)". Our dance teacher was amazing and superinclusive. Before a VERY provocative move she would always ask, if anyone was under 16 and if so, she would tell them to do a "shy" version. She never called it "modest" or "calm" or anything that could be taken as targeted towards those who did the "regular" move being promiscuous or vulgar. That way girls who were actually shy were also included hahaha After the 2020 wave of pandemic, this dance studio grew in popularity and now they have classes divided as "dancehall junior 11-14", "dancehall 14 and above" and "dancehall 18+", which I think is really great! Twerk classes are marked as "16 and above" but now they accept 14 and 15 year olds after parental consent

Honestly, just so thankful that you talk about all sorts of dance related topics. Your channel is so unique! I completely agree with you and I really wish male and female idols would at least receive the equal amount of praise and criticism...

There's a misunderstanding between how you move depending on the context in which you are dancing and what the intention of the dance is. I feel like there's a fine line between artistic movement and inappropriate movement; certain moves are not inherently sensual or wrong if used well with appropriate artistic uses, but if you have a minor dancing such action in a suggested manner, then that is where you are crossing that line. Overall, this is an issue that has been around in dance history and sadly will continue to do so because there are too many layers and perspectives on it.

Your videos are always so interesting! I think debuting of minors in general in kpop is a recipe for disaster (Taemin- sherlock photoshoot, Suzy-bad girl good girl, hyuna- change/troublemaker, etc), but i definitely agree with your point that even if they're over 18, idols shouldnt be coerced into doing sexy/provocative dances bc they're of age

Thank you for another great video! One case I think about often is Le Sserafim's Fearless MV dance break: it was clear the company knew it was inappropriate for the two minors in the group (hence they were cropped out of the shot and the group never performed it on stage) but it was added as part of the choreography and the minors had to perform it in front of staff and the filming crew anyway. I still don't understand what was the thought process behind that. And although I'd say their other choreos (Antifragile, Impurities, Eve Psyche, etc.) are not as explicit, I still don't find them appropriate for the minor in the group. It is incredibly frustrating since it seems like these companies are purposely walking a fine line to cater to creeps while avoiding a full-blown controversy (Or to allegedly *create* a controversy as in New Jeans' case).

This is so interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. The clip from Sera Ryu was honestly kind of hard to watch... I'm sure so many idols have stories about feeling uncomfortable with something like that. Your final point about wanting to just see idols' own visions and preferences taken seriously is SO key. Personally I think this is all an unavoidable outcome of being so socially messed up about sex. Every culture has its own rules, which goes to show how arbitrary it is! Like I rarely see anyone commenting on a female kpop idol being oversexualised/too sexy because of wearing a REALLY short skirt, because bare legs are just seen as normal in that context (while in other places/situations, that might be seen as very sexualised). I think it also has a lot to do with body type - maybe if that idol had bigger thighs or butt people WOULD say that about them. (We can see it with comments about eg Momo or Jihyo in outfits which are very similar to the other Twice members, as though their boobs make their bodies inherently more sexual/acceptable to sexualise!?) Also your mention of there being predators in all fields is so important. I think there's sometimes this misplaced sense that we'd be 'protecting' young idols if they didn't learn hip isolations or wear sports bras in dance practice. But the much scarier truth is, if someone's going to prey on them, it won't be because of those things. It'll be because they see someone with less power than them. The same thing would be just as likely to happen if they wore baggy trousers and long sleeves and only practiced ultra-cutesy choreo...

i don't think there is anything inherently sexual about certain dance moves but song choice and styling can reframe the context of those moves. i don't want minors to debut period but if they do, i think it's important for companies to pay attention to the context in which they are presenting their idols and to make sure said context cannot be interpreted as sexual.

As a 35 year old woman, I wish there was a space for us to do sexy kpop dances without worrying about minors' involvements. Kpop is so targeted towards kids now, but these same kids are not protected. It doesn't feel appropriate practicing or performing a sexy kpop choreo, bc minors are everywhere. It also doesn't feel appropriate seeing most current groups perform anything sexy, bc so many groups these days have very very young members. It's just... It feels like there is no space for anyone above 18 to be feminine and sexy anymore.

i think the main issue is just that idols are public figures. i definitely did age inappropriate/"scandalous" choreography as a minor but also it was just my parents and some people in my neighbourhood watching me perform and i think that's probably why it didn't really affect me in any negative way. with idols it can literally be millions of people watching and people will go online and then talk about it. i don't think that's good. like personally i didn't really have an issue with enha's bite me in concept but i do feel like... niki is still a minor and it's not like being 18-19 suddenly makes you a super mature adult either. i think companies should be more cautious with okay-ing suggestive choreography

In regards to Enhypen, I remember when Fever first came out, I felt very uncomfortable reading the lyrics, especially since NI-ki was only 15 years old at that time. He said that he is the type of person who thinks a lot about the lyrics and tries to sincerely deliver the message of the song every time he sings so I did not feel comfortable hearing a 15 year old singing those kind of lyrics. I didn't have a problem when Bite Me came out, because it had a clear concept (vampires) and the lyrics fit that concept and it would be easy for them to play a character (Ni-ki said that he did research on vampires and watched Twilight to understand and get the feel of the concept). Regarding the pair dance in Bite Me, I don't find it too provocative. From what I read of the Korean/Chinese people who were protesting (and ignoring those delusional fans screaming 'get away from my oppa'), I read a lot that what they didn't like was what the female dancers were wearing (the dress w/ the slit) and wanted them to cover up. Personally, I really liked the outfit because it fit with the vampire image (or at least it fit the image of vampires that I grew up watching). Later, when the female dancers were covered up from head to toe in plain black dress pants and button up shirt, it actually broke the vampire imagery for me and detracted from the performance.

This was a really good video on a really difficult topic, thank you for sharing! Tbh coming from a liberal, Western perspective the amount of sex negativity in the kpop world kind of concerns me. I think the message "sexualized performances should be the idol's choice and they should always be in control of what they do with their body" gets distorted to "sexualized performances and by extension sex is bad and harmful." Which really worries me because so many kpop fans are kids or teens and they'll internalize that messaging and grow up with a terribly unhealthy relationship to sexuality and their own bodies, which ironically makes them far more vulnerable to being exploited and abused. I know it's not a kpop idol's responsibility to teach young people how to live and I do hope most kids are getting better messaging at home/school/etc, but frankly a lot of them just aren't and are specifically looking to the media to teach them how to feel about human sexuality at a very transformative time in their life. It's pretty worrisome tbh. ETA: also obviously only adult idols should be opting to perform in a sexualized way, but I figured we were already on the same page about that

Forcing someone to perform s*xually when they have none is cruel and is a form of abuse. The operative word being “forced”. Whether someone is “legal” or not isn’t the point. Some people who are “legal” are culturally conditioned a certain way that they have yet to experience certain things.

if there are kids watching this who do dance lessons or want to, just remember that you should be able to say no to a move if you feel uncomfortable, and the instructor should be fine with letting your parent/guardian see it 💪

A tough topic but an interesting video ! Thx u so much for your work !

Literally one of the reasons, again, minors shouldn’t debut in Kpop. I’ve got many reasons about it and this video became one of them, companies/choreographers should find choreographies that are more appropriate for minors, seeing minors doing sensual moves for their age is kinda weird and disturbing imo. Hwasa’s situation is totally different from that, she’s an adult and she wants to show to the industry how beauty standards don’t matter at all, and she wants to show how loving your body is. She’s being « provocative » for her own battle with the standards. Here with minors is different, because people will ofc sexualize them, like Niki, his fans are one of the reasons why men being sexualized is normalised, we should’ve talked about since Fever era. With Eunchae too (that one Fearless move). Dance is about expressing yourself with your body and moves too imo, and minors don’t have any battle to whatever their body blah blah blah.

I just want to point out that Niki is 17 right now. Even if he choreographed the dance for bite me, it's still not okay. I wish you had more examples of inappropriate choreography for minor kpop idols because I can think of several.

Facts in fiction never disappoints in dance ❤

Does it mean that teenagers are not allowed to express the feeling of being sexy or living a comfortable sexuality ? Because you say that contrary of dance students, they have a huge audience so they have to be careful with these concepts in order to not influence badly other kids and not shock parents ... But I believe there are lot of teenagers who have a sexual life, who feel conforted by this representation. It shows that they are not the only one in their high school to have such an experience wich can be seen as bad or taboo by parents or other teenagers who don't live like this. This topic of sexualization is complicated for me. Because for me the problem is how adults perceive minors in sexual ways because of the way they dance or they dress (for me a minor can dress or dance like he or she wants, it's the adult responsability to not think of them as sexual objects) Also maybe it's because in my country people have their first sexual experiences around 16 year, I know in Korea it's more around 21 year ... So in my country it's like there is the same amount of people who does their first time at 12 than at 21 years ... Maybe that s why I m not shocked by Enhypen Bite me or that teenagers can talk about sex. Also I m not in a very puritan country, and the time where adults were like "don't do sex until you re married, sex is terrible you can catch diseases , you can be pregnant , stay pure, wait until you found the love of life" is dead, people are more chill about sex where I live, it's not diabolised this much even for teenagers (but only if they experience it with other teenagers, if it's with adults, we have a big problem with it obviously) So I m not saying I disagree with you, it's just that I don't know how to think of this topic. I m mad at people in the companies who use idols bodies and sexy choreos to gain more money or fame. But I'm also mad at people who act like teenagers sexuality should be hidden, forbidden, diabolized, criticized and never showed or talked about in any media ... The thing is that we are not inside their heads, we can't know if they are comfortable doing these concepts or if they forced themselves to do it, or don't realize they are uncomfortable and they will regret it later ... Anyway, it's a really interesting topic, thanks for the video. And Hwasa is a queen