Conversations that Matter: "The Bible's Missing Books?" | Dr. Michael Kruger

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Have you ever heard someone argue that the Bible is untrustworthy, inconsistent, and incomplete? How have you responded?
Dr. Michael Kruger joined us on Friday, Feb. 13th, 2015 to engage in a discussion on these matters as we seek to defend the trustworthiness, consistency, and sufficiency of the Word of God.
Conversations that Matter: "The Bible's Missing Books?"
Friday, February 13, 2015
Holy Trinity Presbyterian Church
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22 фев 2015

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Комментарии : 78

@joelrodriguez1232 6 лет назад

Amazing! I am also reading his book. I love Prof. Kruger.

@joelcook311 7 лет назад

It's always a joy to hear Dr. Kruger's insight on this topic.

@joelrodriguez1232 6 лет назад

Joel Gregory Cook talks his book, canon revisited is pretty good.

@gregkalb909 2 года назад

@@joelrodriguez1232 man

@ad70preterist 5 лет назад

Professor Kruger is a great theologian and teacher.

@TimothyBukowskiApologist 9 лет назад

Very informative talk from Dr. Kruger!

@truthexposer7348 5 лет назад

Amazing.

@user-jy5ff3zo3u 3 года назад

Thank you. 🙏🏼🕊🌹

@aramaicpower 8 лет назад

Thanks !

@abhishekalfred3452 7 лет назад

great presentation

@BackToOrthodoxy 9 лет назад

Good stuff

@__________f9433 7 лет назад

Absolutely fascinating presentation. Thanks for posting.

@elizabethwhite3607 7 лет назад

The website Kruger offers michaeljkruger.com is a very well done site and gives us a chance to go deeper into these topics. I agree with other comments: great presentation, easy to understand as presented. Thank you!

@DrMeano 5 лет назад

is it possible to get the ppt and paper he was referring to?

@argerm57 9 месяцев назад

My thought is, we wouldn't necessarily be reading any of those other books if some competing version of "Christianity" won out. My thinking is that they would not have had the Divine staying power that the version that won the day had (even with its flaws and controversies). Would the Gnostics have endured the Roman persecutions as heartily as the other groups of Christians? If they didn't have true spiritual life, I highly doubt it. If Gnostic Christianity won the day it would be just another religion in the pantheon of religions at that time. It probably would have been subsumed by the emperor cult and disappeared entirely. There is every good reason to believe that what survived was meant by God to survive. The proof is in the fruit. But we may have to wait until the end to see what was really true. But I have to think that the Gospel we have today is the true Gospel - it has life-changing power. The others didn't, and don't. I think the fact that the writings of these other groups did not survive is testament enough of their ultimate worth. Maybe they were objects of purges, or attempted purges, as were the writings of what we call Scripture today. But for whatever reason, those writings did not survive, or their peculiar beliefs did not make the cut, so to speak.

@barbhorses 2 года назад

St Ireneaus also identified the Church founded by the Apostles. He writes: "The truth is to be found nowhere else but in the Catholic Church, the sole depository of apostolic doctrine. Heresies are of recent formation, and cannot trace their origin up to the apostles. 1. Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. Revelation 22:17 For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers" (Against Heresies, 3.4.1).

@TruthHasSpoken 5 лет назад

At 58:00, the man asks a great question, self authenticating vs the reliability of the Church to have said so. One asks Dr Kruger what his criteria (or "feeling") for self authenticating is? Has he applied it to all the 300+ early Christian writings? And can others, apply the same "self authenticating" criteria consistently come to the same canonical conclusions as him? In the end, Dr Kruger has created a new way, unheard of in Christianity, to know what is and is not scripture. He does so to avoid what history shows: that 4th century Catholic Bishops affirmed what is and is not scripture. This includes their declaring 27 NT books, no more, no less out of those 300+ early Christian writings. And mere men can only get this right without error if they were led by the Holy Spirit (to *all truth* as Jesus promised). These same 4th century Catholic men, declared the Old Testament to have 46 books, not 39, and they brought all these writings into Church where they read them at Mass where they presided, believing that the bread and wine became the resurrected body, blood, soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. So one asks Dr. Kruger: how is it that these 4th century Catholic Bishops affirmed 73 books in their bibles? How is it that they all error'd? We're they not 1600 years closer to Jesus Christ than Dr Kruger unable to "self authenticate" what was and was not scripture? Did Jesus Christ lie when he said that he would send the paraclete to lead His Church to all truth or did Christ intend that his Church error for 1,100 years and needed correction by a Catholic Priest in central Europe to set the truth straight?

@BornAgainRN 5 лет назад

@TruthHasSpoken ...having been raised a devout Catholic & having graduated from a Catholic college, I discovered some interesting historical facts about the 4th & 5th church councils: 1) None of them included the book of Baruch & the epistle of Jeremiah. Although "some" ECFs included them as part of the book of Jeremiah, when you examine the lists of ECF's & even Doctors of the Church, such as Irenaeus, Athanasius, Cyril of Jerusalem, etc they list Baruch & the epistle as SEPARATE writings from the book of Jeremiah. 2) The Council of Rome (A.D. 382) listed 6 of the 7 so-called "Deuterocanonical" books BY NAME, as well as listed the 12 "Minor Prophets" BY NAME, despite "the 12" being included centuries earlier as a single book (see the book of Sirach). Yet, this Council neither lists Baruch nor the epistle BY NAME, as it does the rest of the "Deuterocanon." 3) Although the Councils of Rome, Hippo, & Carthage of 419 list the book of Revelation in the NT, the Council of Carthage of 397 does not. Although the Internet lists Revelation in this 4th century council, Catholic author & historian Josef Hefele points out, this "list" from Carthage of 397 was extrapolated from a LATER list after A.D. 418 & then retroactively imputed back into this EARLIER fourth century Council of Carthage of 397. You can see this, since the Pope mentioned at the end of the 397 Carthage list was Pope Boniface...even though he wouldn't be elected Pope until the next century, who ruled over the LATER Council of Carthage of 419. 4) Jerome's Vulgate, which was the "official Catholic Bible" for a millennium and a half, did NOT include the Baruch or the epistle for over FOUR HUNDRED YEARS! According to Catholic Answers & NewAdvent.org (an online Catholic encyclopedia), the Codex Amiatinus (A.D. 700) was "the most celebrated manuscript of the Latin Vulgate Bible, remarkable as the best witness to the true text of St. Jerome." Yet, it too did NOT include the book of Baruch either, and the epistle was merely an "appendage" to the book of Baruch...but not "part" of it. Baruch & the epistle would not get "added" to the OT canon until later sometime in the ninth century A.D. 5) The books of Ezra & Nehemiah (which in Greek is 1 Esdras & 2 Esdras) in our Old Testaments, was NOT the same "Esdras" in these 4th & 5th Century church councils, but rather more what we would call "3 Esdras," which are NOT in Catholic nor Protestant OT's today. 6) The ECF's - and even Doctors of the Church - were not "universal" (or "catholic") in their OT lists...and even their NT lists...in the first few hundred years of the church's history. Some even included the book of Wisdom in the NEW Testament! And when you examine their "lists," although they would list a "Deuterocanonical" book here & there, their "lists" more closely mirrored the OT of PROTESTANTS, not Catholics. It's not until you get to the fourth century that you get lists, like that of Augustine (who actually favored the Hebrew Bible) that you find the Deuterocanon - as a whole - included in lists, but again, not universally (ie: Athanasius, Cyril, Jerome, etc). Even Augustine most likely would not have accepted the "Deuterocanon" had he known they weren't in the Hebrew Bible that he favored - which he wasn't aware of. So, while the Holy Spirit guided fallible men in the early church to recognize the already written Inspired NT text written in the 1st Century in the church age, the OT canon had already been accepted by the Hillite Pharisaic school, which both the apostle Paul & Gamaliel from the NT were members of. When Paul used the metonym "the Law & the Prophets" to describe the OT canon (Romans 3:21), as a Hillelite Pharisee he would have understood this to refer to the canon of the Hebrew Bible that Hillel had espoused to in the previous century, but NOT the Deuterocanon that they all rejected. Jesus used this exact same metonym ("the Law & the Prophets") when talking with the Pharisees (Luke 16:14-16) when He affirmed THEIR OT canon (Luke 16:29). So, this is why the much later DIFFERENT canonS of the fourth & fifth century councils, and even the later canon of later Catholicism is NOT the OT canon Jesus & the NT writers espoused to. So, yes, the Catholic church has been "wrong" - but not because the church Christ built was wrong, but because the Catholic church is NOT the church He built. If they were, they would have the correct OT canon too, but they don't, so they aren't. I just completed a book about this, which includes all this - and much, much more - which should be published sometime in 2019. It has over 500 references - most of them are from CATHOLIC sources, including the Vatican. If you are interested in this topic, send me your email address and/or your address, and I'll be happy to mail you a copy when it comes out. BTW, Dr. Kruger addressed your question, just in a much more condensed version, since this was part of a Q & A, which means he had to be brief, since this is a topic which requires a LOT of explanation, which is why I wrote my book.

@harmonymira111 5 лет назад

BornAgainRN I am interested in your book! Thanks!

@GuyStPierre4love 4 года назад

@@BornAgainRN I certainly would love to read your book. I greatly appreciated your response, which I find historically viable and true. Please send me info. The Lord Jesus bless you in his grace.

@3leon306 3 года назад

Nice cut and paste job

@TruthHasSpoken 3 года назад

@@BornAgainRN "So, while the Holy Spirit guided fallible men in the early church to recognize the already written Inspired NT text written in the 1st Century in the church age, " Can you be specific as to who these "men" were ?

@FIREHOUSE731F 6 лет назад

I believe the 66 books are infact scripture. Its because of the testimony of the 66 of the Book of Enoch that I believe Enoch also. Jude quoted directly from Enoch a document proven to of existed hundreds of years before Jude was even born. Jude also calls Enoch " Prophecy ". That's huge. Prophecy means Enoch was inspired not by man but by God.

@morelmaster 4 года назад

Problem is, you weren't inspired by the Spirit to decide which books got put into the canon, the CC was.

@mikepruett1745 3 года назад

@@morelmaster and it goes back to the septuigent its not there so we have enough of his word

@joebidensdiaper8526 5 лет назад

You say a lot that topics are too deep to get into now. I’m watching because I want to know those things. Where can I get deeper??

@SM-4359 4 года назад

I read the books that pastors took out,it's not biblical and it's like a journal it's not really interesting at all

@wjm5972 Год назад

the missing books are the ones prots removed

@juliewestron5260 Год назад

1:31

@barbhorses 2 года назад

Sounds like protestantism. Each individual gets the Jesus they like all depending on their opinions of scripture.

@Rightlydividing-wx1xb 3 года назад

It is great to hear a textual scholar of the Greek New Testament, the usual is that they leave their actual teachings or doctrines out of their work. We all have as close to the actual AUTOGRAPHS as possible. Infact, the mss we have contain the AUTOGRAPHS in them as the ones copying did not discard text by all accounts. But, he has a problem as a bible teacher, he believes one is regenerated before even hearing the gospel. 1)His DEFINITION OF SOVEREIGN, which teaches that men do not have the ability to run contrary to the will of God. 2)and MITICULOUS DETERMINISM, which teaches that God decides EVERY SINGLE thought word and action that every person will think say and do, except that God's breathed words teach His doctrines in PLAIN LANGUAGE and REFUTE CALVINISM from Genesis to Revelation. Believing that God decides EVERY SINGLE thought word and action that every person will think say and do, makes God infact, not only the author of SIN, but a SINNER. It also means that NOONE should be concerned about SIN or RIGHTEOUSNESS, for any reason, even the actions of believers, because by their teachings God HAS ALREADY DECIDED EVERY SINGLE PERSON'S DEEDS throughout every single thought, word and deed of their life. There would be no reason to be upset or bothered by any false teaching because people are not acting on their own, it is God working through them according to CALVINISM. They, concerning their 9-NOT 5-POINTS called TULIP, they CANNOT use words like: willing or unwilling; believe or unbeliever; obedient or disobedient or disobedience, etc. Because NOONE can do anything God already caused before anyone was born. Two clear examples of men with the ability to run contrary to the will of God: 1) Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5, 32:35 where God says that the Jews did something that God not only DID NOT COMMAND, but NEVER EVEN ENTERED HIS MIND. This is NOT OPEN THEISM, this is ABILITY TO CHOOSE TO FOLLOW HIS WILL OR RUN CONTRARY TO IT per the God breathed words called the Bible. God knows everything, including the hearts of men, and what they will do and causes His will, words, to be FULFILLED ACCORDING TO HIS WILL. 2) Jeremiah 18, where God compared the potter with Himself and told Jeremiah that if a Nation turns from their wickedness He will not do what He planned, that is, if he had planned DESTRUCTION. If a nation turns from righteousness to wickedness He will not do what He planned, that is, good. See Jeremiah 18, and Jonah, the complete book, as a clear example of Jeremiah 18. It is important for teaching congregations textual criticism of the greek new testament, but they also need to know what these Greek Scholars believe as well, which helps them see that these scholars do NOT use this teaching to push their beliefs into the ms transmission.

@FIREHOUSE731F 6 лет назад

In Matthew 22 Jesus references a teaching of scriptures concerning marriage in heaven. This teaching is nowhere to be found in the entire Old Testament and according to Jesus these scriptures the Sadducees were unaware of also because they only accepted the Law as canon.The only place I have found this teaching in is the Book of Enoch 15:1-7. Infact the Book of Enoch cover to cover teaches against the marriage of eternal beings explicitly. Enoch even explains to Azazel the Fallen Watcher ( see Leviticus 16 on Azazel ) why God allowed mankind to marry because they were mortal and not eternal heavenly beings. No book in existence today fits the description of scriptures which Jesus was referencing outside of Enoch

@chrisbroussard8335 6 лет назад

26:00ish Yes the books were first century but why did you stop there. Your teacher Bart Erhman went another step and narrowed the books down to decades.

@TruthHasSpoken 5 лет назад

And Tyler, why the first century? Where does this belief come from: that a text must have been written in the first century, to have been inspired scripture? One won't this criteria in scripture, Dr. Kruger's _final authority_ . Thus, one asks: did Dr Kruger read all 300+ early Christian writings and apply his self authenticating "feeling" to know if any of these writings have been left out?

@BackToOrthodoxy 5 лет назад

TruthHasSpoken what do you mean feeling?

@TruthHasSpoken 5 лет назад

Back to Orthodoxy When Michael Kruger speaks of one reading the bible and "doing" something to another person, he is describing a feeling. Yet this wasn't at all how the early Christians decided what is and is not scripture. He is unable - or I haven't heard him describe it yet - what exactly this 'doing" is (feeling), and can it be applied to all 300+ early Christian writings to know if a writing has been left out the should be included? He he applied it to all 300+ early Christian writings? Without a description, it's impossible to have others use the same criteria to come to the same beliefs as to what is and is not scripture. In this video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oLYMLeaVsAw.html he says something quite shocking starting at 2:40, that "I believe in Jesus ... I believe in the Son of God ... I believe he gave his life for me on the cross ... " and *"you only know Jesus from the bible"* We no. Jesus instituted a Church, of which he calls the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth, and where the manifold wisdom of God rests. The bible itself comes from this Church, which books were scripture - and which not - were decided by it, by Catholic Bishops, in the late 4th century. So when some came along and said Jesus was created, the Church said "no way." When some came along and said Jesus had brothers and sisters born of Mary besides him, the Church said "no way." When some have come along and said Jesus is Michael the Archangel, the Church again said "no way." There are just a few. Those Christians in the first few _centuries_ had no bible and nothing was put to writ until nearly 50 ad, some 17 years after his death. When the 4th century Church finally affirmed that the New Testament consisted of 27 books, no more, no less, out of some 300+ early Christian writings, they also confirmed that the OT consisted of 46 books, not 39. They did so at the very same councils (synods). So who should one trust? Dr Kruger's personal sense that what is scripture is that it's "doing" something, a feeling, or by the authority of the Church established by Christ 1600+ years ago, where the manifold wisdom of God rests - and which Christ *promised* to lead to ALL Truth? 7 books and a whole lot of theological truth rests on this question.

@BornAgainRN 5 лет назад

@@TruthHasSpoken and how do you know Jesus "instituted a Church" which He called "the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth"? Because a particular religious organization says they are, or because they say they are the "church" Paul talked about in SCRIPTURE? If this is your basis, then you are using circular reasoning ("the Catholic church 'is' this church, because the Catholic church 'says' they are that church"). But what you aren't realizing is that the Catholic church is attempting to base this on SCRIPTURE, which you even quoted from Paul's first epistle to Timothy. So, the Catholic church can't use Scripture to define itself "as" that church if the Scriptures weren't already recognized "by" the church from the very beginning in the first century. IOW, you are using "A" (the Scriptures) to define "B" (the Church Jesus built) to define "A" (the Scriptural canon). Again, this is circular reasoning. You have to have an already established canon of Scripture BEFORE you can define what "church" qualifies as the same church Jesus built which is in SCRIPTURE. BTW, the Catholic church doesn't qualify, since Paul goes on a couple verses later to define what disqualifies a church from being the church Jesus built: "those who forbid men from marrying & commanding to refrain from eating certain foods." The Catholic church does BOTH of these things. Catholic men in the Latin Rite who are priests are "forbidden" to marry if they want to remain active Catholic priests in the Latin Rite, and they command "refraining" from eating meat on Friday's during Lent on Ash Wednesday, including Good Friday (even though Jesus & the disciples ate meat on this first "Good Friday" - the Passover Lamb). And it doesn't matter that the Catholic church "allows" male Catholic priests in other Rites who have converted from Anglicanism & Episcopalianism who were married & were priests to remain married & remain priests. The Catholic church is still contradicting what Paul wrote by "forbidding" male Catholic priests in the LATIN Rite from marrying. So, the Catholic church disqualifies itself on BOTH of the criteria that Paul wrote on being the church Christ built. If you want to watch a really good debate on the OT canon of Scripture, I highly recommend "The Great Debate IX" between Dr. James White & Mr. Gary Michuta: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AAoNfH1rFtE.html

@TruthHasSpoken 5 лет назад

“how do you know Jesus "instituted a Church" which He called "the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth"?” Through Sacred Tradition, both what has been put to writ in scripture and through the memory of the Church. As St. Paul said, _“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”_ (2 Thes 2:15) “But what you aren't realizing is that the Catholic church is attempting to base this on SCRIPTURE“ No, not scripture only. St Ignatius for example was a disciple of St John, the same who was taught by Jesus for 3 years. This is a great example of “those (St. Ignatius) who hear you (St. John), hear me (Jesus). His words in 110 ad below. Do you have a proper Eucharist? _“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, _*_wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”_*_ Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110)._ Nearly 300 years later, with many writings in between, St Augustine writes below: that Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Catholic Church (translated, the Church, led by Christ all all truth, is protected by Jesus Christ from teaching what is false, as true). _“It follows after commendation of the Trinity, ‘The Holy Church.’ God is pointed out, and His temple. ‘For the temple of God is holy,’ says the Apostle, ‘which (temple) are ye.’ This same is the holy Church, the one Church, the true Church, the Catholic Church, fighting against all heresies: fight, it can: be fought down, it cannot. As for heresies, they went all out of it, like as unprofitable branches pruned from the vine: but itself abideth in its root, in its Vine, in its charity. ‘The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.’” Augustine, Sermon to the Catechumens on the Creed, __6:14__ (A.D. 377)._ "If the Scriptures weren't already recognized "by" the church from the very beginning in the first century." One won’t find a canonical list of the New Testament, exactly as we have it today, until St. Athanasius in 367. And the “Church” didn’t affirm the NT canon to be used universally until 393 and 397 at Hippo and Carthage. There was through time however, a canon that was formed although there was disagreement as to what books belonged in it. The four gospels were being used, but not only them, by the early 2nd century. This formation of the canon over time is testament to "Sacred Tradition" at work. "those who forbid men from marrying & commanding to refrain from eating certain foods." The Catholic church does BOTH of these things.” Both are practices, disciplines, not doctrines. That's why in some Catholic Rites of which there are 23, priests do marry. However, Jesus Christ praises those who would be celibate for the sake of the kingdom. _For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, _*_and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.”_* “Catholic men in the Latin Rite who are priests are "forbidden" to marry” And note, of all the priests I know and have known, I hear no complaints. Young men enter seminary and willingly become priests, consecrating their lives to Jesus Christ. It is a calling to do so by the Holy Spirit. “and they command "refraining" from eating meat on Friday's during Lent on Ash Wednesday, including Good Friday” A wonderful way to keep Jesus on one’s mind leading up to Good Friday and Easter. Fasting as you know, is *most biblical.* However, I find very, very, few protestants who do so, in any form. “If you want to watch a really good debate on the OT canon of Scripture” James White, as well as Michael Kruger, don’t want to admit it because it leads to all kinds of theological problems for them, but they tacitly defer to the authority of Catholic Bishops to know what is, and is not, Sacred Scripture. For the New Testament, they can't and won’t find any writing listing the 27 NT books, exactly as we have them today, no more, no less, out of some 300+ early Christian writings, until the late 4th century. The canon decided and declared by Catholic Bishops meeting in North Africa. Problematic for JW and MK: Those very same Catholic Bishops, descendants of those 318 Catholic Bishops who met 70 years earlier to articulate the Doctrine of the Trinity at Nicea, affirmed the Old Testament to have 46 books, not 39. Both Dr Kruger and James White believe, that they ALL didn’t know how to interpret these writings when they brought them into Church and read them as Mass where they presided, all professing belief in the One Catholic Church, Baptism being Salvific and Regenerative, and the Eucharistic being the resurrected body and blood of Christ to name a few differences. Both James and Michael believe, tacitly so, that Jesus Christ didn’t keep his promise. He lied. He failed to lead His Church to all Truth. Like the Jehovah Witnesses, apostasy crept in immediately after the death of the last apostle, so much so that error was so rampant by the late 4th century that Catholic Bishops were clueless on what they were doing celebrating the Mass without so much as a debate. They were all pagans, yet they knew without error what books were NT scripture. And in their minds that late 4th century Catholic Bishop and Doctor of the Church, Augustine was wrong. The gates of hell DID prevail. Is that what you believe Born Again.... that 318 Catholic Bishops at Nicea articulated the Doctrine of the Trinity against a priest named Arius, but knew not how one was "born again" ... and their successors 70 years later, every one of them, knew not either? And the whole bunch were pagan's in celebrating the Mass, none believing in a Symbolic Only Lord's Supper?

@ABDULKarim-yf7tt 2 года назад

Dear friend give me few minutes to explain my belief Islam and Jesus and Mary We muslims are in middle , between the Jews and Christians, when it comes to Jesus and Mary peace be upon them both. Jews speak ill of him and his mother and christians say he is GOD or the son of GOD or GOD him self or one in 3, we muslims with the grace of GOD say ,He was the messiah and the messenger of GOD just like the other messengers ,Abraham,Moses,Noah ..David and rest of them .They all came with the same message, even though the rules and regulations changed but basic message never changed ,Adam being the first prophet and the father of humanity (who was bowed down to by the Angels,(created by light) As respect for Adam not as worship ,all of the Angels compiled to this order of Allah except iblees ,who said you created me from fire (he was a jinn) and created him(Adam) from clay(the jinn race were created from smoke less fire and were on earth before us and are still present ,iblees was,not a fallen angle, jinns are a creation of free will like us .hidden from human eyes and are able to transform in to humans and animals and also able to fly ,Allah will judge them just like us and their destination either physical paradise or physical hell fire after physical resurrection, ) and Muhammad peace be upon him being the last prophet and messenger. all of them called to the worship of One GOD , peace be upon them all. ALLAH (jews and Christians in middle east have been calling GOD ,Allah(which is his original Name) for centuries ,even the present day bible in arabic says Allah as GOD' Allah has no likeness to his creation,his names and attributes are all perfect , He is above his creation,above his throne (The Throne is bigger than the universe and more) in a way which befits him , He is alone , like it is said in the bible ,listen oh Israel the Lord is our GOD The Lord is alone .In the Quran Allah says ,,Say He is Allah the ONE, Allah the eternal,He does not beget and He is not begotten and there is no one like him . Quran chapter 112 The Prophets and Messengers before Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him,were send to a particular community of people ,Moses to his people,Noah to his people and Jesus to the children of Israel Jesus said “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” but the last Prophet and Messenger Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and all the Prophets) Allah send him to all of the mankind until day of judgment Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all Quran chapter 7.158. Prophet Muhammad is also Prophesied in the bible Well then, who are you?" they asked. "Are you Elijah?" "No," he replied. "Are you the Prophet we are expecting?" "No." Join 1,21 According to this the Jews were waiting for a Prophet who is not John the Baptist peace be upon him and John the Baptist is also confirming that there is a another Prophet which is not The Messiah , so read Isaiah 29-12 And when they give the book to one who cannot read, saying, “Read this,” he says, “I cannot read.” This Prophecy is for no other than Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. It has been narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari 3-The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet added, "Then the angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.'" ... Quran is the only word of GOD preserved in its original form, it has dozens of miracles ,including scientific and historical ,like the big bang , expansion of the universe, every living thing is created from water ,embryology in details ,black holes ,mountains as pegs ,different types of clouds ,water circle, Queen bee ,genders in plants ,Iron not from earth rather send down, ants speaking to each other , the preservation of the body of pharaoh as sign from Allah for the oppressors and much much more ,just type Islam and science and the above mentioned things in internet ,u tube and be surprised .May Allah guide the christians they can't prove the authenticity of the 4 gospels ,which were written 70-90 years after jesus ,mark and Luke never met Jesus , the title according to mathew was added in the second century and the gospel of John was written the last after 70 years of Jesus ,yet John suppose to be the beloved. Don't forget in the council of Nicaea 325 years after Jesus ,the emperor and bishops rejected all those Gospels which mentioned That Jesus was the Messenger and the Messiah NOT the Son of GOD. Even authors of the revised standard version bible comprising of 50 scholars has declared that the word BEGOTTEN and trinity in John as FABRICATION and not part of the bible. Islam does not allow any intermediates between Allah and his creation. One is ordered to worship ALLAH directly seeking His help and forgiveness, All sins will be forgiven by Allah (GOD )with the exception of The sin association partners with Allah ,e.g. saying Jesus is GOD Or son of GOD ,in this case eternity in hell fire (I pray all those who read this,that Allah opens their hearts to Islam As for Mary she is considers the woman of all times so much so that there is a whole chapter in the Quran in her name called soora muryam GOD say in soora Aal-e-Imran َا3,42 And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds, O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]." (And mention] when the angels said, Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].in 3:46ّ He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous.in 3,47 She said, "My Lord, (Allah ,GOD)how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.َّ And in Quran ,chapter 3-59 GOD says Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was. Jesus Not crucified And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.4,157 Jesus will declare his innocence in front of Allah (GOD) on the day of judgment Al-Ma'idah 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. Al-Ma'idah 5:117ٌ I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. Al-Ma'idah 5:118 ,we muslims also believe in the second coming of Jesus peace be upon him Jesus will return to kill the false messiah (dajal) and rule on earth as a just ruler and command the human beings to worship ALLAH alone ,just like what He did when He was on earth for the first time I pray all of you out there ,who seek nearness to Allah (GOD), that He guides you to Islam and showers his mercy on you, As Allah said to prophet Moses ,my mercy encompasses every thing (Quran chapter,7)Ameen pease

@billhesford6098 2 года назад

Like these early gospels say - 'Ego eimi' Unless one was to suggest Jesus did not know what people would think this means? Jesus is the promised prophet.

@MitzvosGolem1 5 лет назад

There are hundreds of variant versions of Christian Bibles none match each other or the original koine Greek NT Papyrus or the Hebrew Tanakh Bible or Dead sea scrolls or the Septuagint... There are 35,000 different Christian sects today.

@BornAgainRN 5 лет назад

motorhead1 engine1...according to The National Catholic Register, it's a fallacy to insist there are "35,000 Christian sects today" - or more specifically, "35,000 Protestants Denominations." The World Christian Encyclopedia (which is where this number comes from) includes the 242 Catholic "Rites" as part of that number, and 22,000 of them are classified as "Independent" - but not Protestant. The various "Protestants sects" in all reality are a MINORITY of the 33,000 number the Catholic article cites. Here is the article from The National Catholic Register that addresses this for your convenience: www.ncregister.com/blog/scottericalt/we-need-to-stop-saying-that-there-are-33000-protestant-denominations

@michealmccoy9249 5 лет назад

And there’s 35,000,000 groups of lost people who hate the God who made them 😉👍

@BornAgainRN 5 лет назад

@@michealmccoy9249 35 MILLION? Who are these?

@gogos869 2 года назад

In my opinion, the English language is inferior to both Hebrew and Greek. Unfortunately, it is the only language I speak fluently. I mainly use the ESV(English Standard Version) which is a word for word equivalent translated directly from the Original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. But, I also study the ancient languages and cultures. I also use a concordance and a Greek lexicon. I was not raised Christian, so I have a lot to learn!

@MitzvosGolem1 2 года назад

@@gogos869 Actually no christian new testament nor old matches earliest original sources of koine greek or hebrew Tanakh. 1 John 5:7-8, 7:53,8:10, Mark 16:9-20 not in original pre Nicea NT. Isaiah 7:14 " virgin in future tense " not in Hebrew as are hundreds of other significant modifications made by early church . Dr Bart Ehrman exposes NT . Rabbi Tovia Singer exposes OT changes. שלום