Cosmetic Catholics and the Crisis of Authority. Taylor Marshall exposes Calvin Robinson. 

Wow! This is a masterclass at how to critique a friend or at least someone you genuinely care for and respect. This needed to be said as it is such a serious issue and his large platform could lead many souls astray. Thank you! Will continue to pray for your ministry and for Calvin’s full conversion to the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

We KNEW this was inside of you! Jolly Good to see you express Christs Charity and Mercy as Truth! The Gospel is often times a tough pill to swallow. Thank you for caring for Calvins soul as apparently no one else has had the courage and love to do so! God Bless you 🙏 ❤

I have SO MUCH respect for Calvin's courage and speaking, and much of what he says (as a former "Anglo-Catholic" myself) resonates and I find myself sympathizing with. BUT I have come to the Catholic Church (Confirmed in April) to experience the fullness of Christianity and a relationship with Christ, and looking back now after a conversion process that was lengthy (many years), painful (cost me dear friendships and still risks some of my family relationships), and messy, I can see so plainly that sincerely striving for the historic, living Christian faith could have led nowhere other than to the Catholic Church. Based in Rome. Under the Pope in communion with the worldwide bishops. I hope that Calvin finds his way home too.

As always, you speak the truth with love, as scripture says. You have such a gracious spirit in your conversation. Thank you, especially for the exhortation to "pay the price, it's worth it." And also the reminder to defend the Church in these trying times. God bless you and please continue to teach us and encourage us in our faith. To God be the glory. 🙏🏻

You appear to be expecting a lot of your audience intellectually in your current crop of lectures, they seemed to be pitched higher than former ones, and you seem to be happier for giving yourself a free reign to express your personal ideas and to range across many fields of knowledge and cite multiple sources. This is exhilarating to listen to, very challenging in a positive way. Please carry on being emboldened to share your unique point of view with full vigour.

Dr. Ashenden my repect for you grows with every listen. Thank you. Praise God

As a new catholic convert, thank you for such a concise explanation of the interview. When I watched it, and was confused by Calvin's answers, I thought my lack of knowledge was the issue not him.

I was so hoping that you would address this interview because you are uniquely qualified to do so. Thank you for bringing the historical, as well as the theological and ecclesial perspectives which are anything but ‘cosmetic’!

This is one of your best Gavin. You speak the truth!

the best podcaster in youtube. finally a precise speaker

Thank you so much, Dr. Ashenden, for this insightful presentation. Calvin Robinson has been a puzzle to many of us in recent times. While I appreciate his clearly fervent Christianity, and his public defense of the faith during the crises of this modern era, I have been concerned that his - how can I call it - liturgical laxity - will in the end cause harm where it didn't need to and weaken his position. We are all evolving as Christians. My prayer is that CR will heed the wisdom you have presented here, make the sacrifice, and embrace the one holy Catholic faith completely.

That was superb and thank you for it. Calvin appears to be a man of good will but also appears very mixed up as you pointed out. He simply wishes to go his own way rather than submit his intellect and will to the Church. I watched his interview with Taylor Marshall but had to switch off after he made a number of ridiculous assertions. Perhaps he will enter the Church, even though it is led by men who bring shame on it. The Church is still the Church of the Saints and bears the four marks that distinguish it from all others.

Thank you so much, Doctor Ashenden. This conversation was a brilliant and charitable examination of Calvin Robinson and the paucity of Anglican Protestantism. Calvin Robinson needs to enter the faith and some Bishop needs to reach out to him. God bless and sustain you.

This is excellent! Thank you very much. May God bless you.

What an excellent explanation of so many key issues. As an American, I learned a great deal and came away deeply impressed by the combination of clarity and charity on Gavin’s part.

I've listened to this commentary twice now and want to thank Gavin for insight and analysis. Even though I am Catholic I hadn't understood the 39 articles and am actually rather shocked at the venom contained within them.

Wow, such a gem your channel is! I have subscribed!

What a very good article. Carry on doing articles and so forth.

Very astute diagnosis of a reprobate construction such as Anglicanism. I came back into the fold after skipping for 12 years in the angry desert of protest and becoming weary to despair unless I returned to receive Holy Communion this Easter Vigil where i find myself in Common Humanity again and so cheerful again praise Be to the name of the Lord. We are in a real Culture battle and for sure do we need St Peter's posterity to embolden us against the Holy Ship's dodgy pilots and leaking hull. May The Holy Spirit enable us to defend against the inner as well as the outer Wolves. Pax Vobiscum Amen + .

Henry's distribution of the assets of the monastic houses to his friends probably sealed England's fate because it gave the most powerful people of England a vested interest in supporting Protestantism. The restoration of Catholicism would have put them and the government under enormous pressure to see that those assets were returned.

Thanks for a wonderful video. While I have much admiration for Mr Robinson's courage in defending traditional values without counting the cost, I do respectfully agree with your conclusions concerning the possible disingenuity of his position as to his relationship and standing with the One True Faith. He is clearly NOT a Catholic but if he continues to falsely argue otherwise, then he will have only succeeded in re-Protestantise himself and create the 450,000th Protestant denomination!

As a person who has seen this issue and have gone through the stages from being so called Anglo-Catholic to now going on this long and painful journey to Rome through the Ordinariate, I was so blessed to hear this analysis. God bless you.

Wow, wow, wow. Have never heard these articles before. This explains so much. Thank you!

Thank you for the great information. God Bless 🙌 it's sad because evil is all around us.

Thank you for this critique and historical explanation! God bless you.

Sending prayers and love, brother. 🙏

Brilliant talk, full of truth, and I'm grateful for you posting it. Thank you. God bless and keep you.

Thank you for your excellent research and superb talk. Much more interesting and informative than the Robinson/Marshall interview.

Good point about the 39 articles and the TLM.

Shakespeare's 'Macbeth' is, among other things, a brilliant coded commentary on the draconian oppression of Catholics and its inevitable though indefensible reaction in the Gunpowder Plot. For an explanation, see Clare Asquith's book 'Shadowplay'.

Thank you, this is wonderful! I listened to Taylor's interview with Calvin, he sounded very intellectual and very protestant. He knows better then Jesus. I'm in SC and on my street alone there are 2 house churches, and 2 small churches, one in a trailer.

Such an information dense and enlightening talk, so much food for thought here. This English convert to the Roman Catholic Church thanks you so much 🙏🏻 It has been my greatest hope, these past few years, that England will find her way back to true Christianity (which is only Catholic), claim the inheritance that heretics violently stripped from her hundreds of years ago and do her part to restore Christendom whereby His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. 🤍

Thank you. I learned a lot. ❤

Just one minor clarification on a point of doctrine. Now, when I was at school, at about the age of seven, I can remember learning from the Catechism [Question] “Is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass a re enactment of the Sacrifice of Calvary?” [Answer] “No, the Sacrifice of the Mass is not a re enactment of the Sacrifice of Calvary. It is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross.” This was part of the Catechism so that Catholics could refute the accusation made by Protestants that Catholics believe that Jesus dies again on the Altar at a Catholic Mass. Jesus does not die on the Altar during the Mass. He died once and for all, as the one perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, on the Cross. The Mass makes this sacrifice real and present, but it is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross, not a re enactment of the death of Jesus at Calvary. Gavin does not quite make this clear. Sometimes converts are eager to stress, possibly, sometimes, to over stress, the fullness of Catholic truth, but that truth does not extend to an assertion that Jesus dies on the Altar at each and every Mass. It is a fine distinction, I know, however, the Catechism from which I was taught (abolished, of course, as has been so much that was good in the Church) did go to great lengths to ensure that Catholics were aware exactly what the Church did, and did not, teach, as far as the nature of the sacrifice of the Mass is concerned.

This Lutheran pastor at age 90 is very appreciative of your commentaries over the several years I have listened to you!

You gotta to pay the price but the Mass is priceless, amen to that sir.

Thank you Dr Gavin for this video🙏 I had already seen the Calvin Marshall video and wondered by Dr Taylor hadn't asked two questions: - Do you believe in the Real Presence of the Blessed Sacrament? and if so, - Why aren't you Roman Catholic?

I am a big fan of Robinson, but it is a bit of a shame that he has not fully embraced the Catholic Church. You gave an interesting talk on the history Anglican Church. I have an even greater appreciation of your love for religious Freedom. You even mentioned near the beginning of your talk that there is a cost to becoming Catholic. As a cradle Catholic, I did not have to pay the cost myself. However, my mother paid a somewhat of a price for getting me Baptized, which is why I treasure my religious freedom here in the United States ever since I moved here.

A “catholic” is a member of Christ’s church. Such a man has true belief in Christ and is saved. He may be found in a Roman church, an Eastern church, an Anglican church, a Lutheran church, etc. These are the believers saved by Christ’s Paschal Sacrifice and written into the God’s Book of Life. You mean a “Roman” or “Roman Catholic”. While Rome does try to claim the word “catholic”, this ignores the fact that the East also claims this title. They are after all, the Orthodox Catholic Church and have been since the Great Schism in 1054. As such, Rome too must qualify it’s use of “catholic”. With this knowledge, it should also be no surprise that Calvin Robinson, ordained into the Nordic Catholic Church, would also not only use the term “catholic”, but also qualifies it. This is the same reason most confessing Evangelicals (Lutherans, not the radical reformers who stole the term) will also tell you they are the historical continuation of the Medieval Catholic Church cleansed by the Gospel. No, Rome doesn’t have exclusive right to the use of “catholic”. It does, however, have the exclusive right to the use of “Roman Catholic”.

Who is better? Calvin or your local gay Catholic priest? Father James Martin? Calvin could of gone very, very far in the CofE if he had just played the game. But he chose God. That is a lot braver than many, many 'faithful' people who call themselves Catholic but then try to bring in affirming theology into the Catholic Church.

I will have to listen to this again. It was well worth it the first time. Perhaps only a former-Anglican (with such deep knowledge and a good intellect) could be so devastating about the Church of England. I don't know of any cradle Catholics who would have been able to have done the same. Having listened to you I think that many of us have been too charitable towards the Church of England.

Thank you for that, I was struck by the historical background and the depth of explanation. I went to bed last night with thoughts of the great example of intellectual integrity based in truth. I can take some lesson from this in my own efforts.

A good insight, thanks for explaining. Laudate Dominum.

Thank you Dr Gavin! Absolutely outstanding and needed explanation. I heard the entire interview and found myself perplexed many times. Ultimately, I believe you have hit the nail on the head. Fr. Calvin simply does not feel comfortable enough at the time to cross the Tiber (though PF is probably not helping him)...regardless he will need to see Christ and his authority behind the lone One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church He established regardless of the failure of any of its present-day ministers.

Gavin, thank you so much for this fabulous talk. Extremely insightful and informative. I’ve enjoyed it very much. God bless 🙏

This has been a most stimulating start to my morning here in the Southern Antipodes. God Bless, Dr Gavin.

Excellent!

"For myself, I found my own most pregnant evidence in the work of the divines of the Anglican Church; their prayer-books and their *articles* ; and in the visible influence which they had ever had upon the high places of the Establishment, in favour of the truths, which I saw to be true. These were the means by which Providence had led me on, from the beginning to the end, to find a present refuge from absolute religious scepticism, and a bulwark against error." St John Henry Newman, Apologia.

I often wonder if Fr Calvin doesn't want to convert to Catholicism because he doesn't want to give up his media persona/public ministry. To convert may mean giving up the priesthood.

What a superb history lesson, Dr Ashenden. Many many thanks. My grandmother, a convert, used to quote the blasphemous fables bit, and call our lovely medieval cathedrals stolen property. Good for her !

I happen to be reading through John Henry Newman’s Loss and Gain. Much of it goes over my head, but your analysis at the beginning clarified some things. Thank you!

I did like the reference to Eamon Duffy. It was like hearing about an old friend. He helped me understand the revolutionary nature of the Reformation in England.

Brilliant! I had a lot of time for Calvin until he went searching for priesthood as a personal goal. He should, like you, Gavin, embrace the true Church as a layman and let the Church discern his vocation. He should, like you have, pay the price.

Thank you for describing how Calvin acted as a deacon. I was a bit shocked that he called himself Father before being priested. In my opinion, honesty and integrity means that a person teaches the values and beliefs that are upheld by the institution that employs that person.

Dr Ashenden, Calvin reminds me a bit of myself when younger and discerning whether to go into ministry (initially as a Methodist but then thinking about Anglo-Catholic orders). I paid the price and gave it up to the Lord when I entered into the Ordinariate here in Australia and am happy as a layman in my vocation as a husband and ordinary run of the mill Christian. I have some sympathy for Calvin but I too have the same view as you in the end.

🙏Bless you Gavin I love Calvin and find him confused vulnerable autistic soul looking for a right support and direction- church laws and structure is indeed complex and very complicated I pray for him as his work absolutely essential now💖💖💖✝ hope he’s coming back to GB and continue his conversations here at homeland🙏✨

One admires Calvin’s desire for the priesthood but we can ask does he desires this to serve God or to serve Calvin ? My impression of CR is that he is unlikely to be successful in pastoral work. He can sound impressive but he fails to connect. Also, he seems unlikely to learn anything about himself and to change course when necessary. Gavin is admirably gracious and fair in his assessment. Gavin also mentions in passing the obliteration of centres of prayer, the monasteries and convents, during the English reformation. The removal of these conduits of grace was devastating. Not many see that.

The Roman Catholic parish in our university city joined with all the Protestant groups last year by hanging the Pride flag from the church organ. Only the Anglo Catholic group refused to participate. Guess whose building was defaced.

I was ordained a Catholic priest in the Finnish Malobar Free Presbyterian Nordic Swahili Church of Northern Vermont. We are too Catholics! And you better not say any different! And don't listen to those Southern Vermonters!

Thank you Gavin...We are being chastised but God calls forth Saints and great Theologians to guide us.

Very interesting and this overview joins a few dots for me. I will continue to pray for him as my brother in Christ. I pray he will find the fullness of the faith that he is obviously searching for…

as always education from a beautifully enlightened former lost soul who came home after by the grace of God saw the light and now shines it bright graciously

Thank you for the invitation, I prefer the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church from which Rome was cut off. In other words, Enas messed with the four...

SO very interesting. What a profound lesson about the inability to escape the consequences of past actions. And I am very grateful to now understand exactly why there is no such thing as an Anglican priest.

Please can you post these talks on apple podcast, it would be incredible useful. Many thanks

Dr Scott Hahn, a Catholic theologian and a Christian apologist, who was Protestant Minister who has taken on a Catholic teaching role after becoming a Catholic.

Hear, hear!

I'm glad someone called this out tbh.

Excellent summary of Dr. Marshall's interview. The Synodal Modernist Church mirrors the errors and rise of the Anglican church in my opinion. In the same way the Mass of the Ages is being suppressed, although a lot less bloddy.

We ALL have to read and learn who is JESUS CHRIST actually. Not what we think about Him, but WHO is He really and what He demands to us.

A friend shared this with me and it is absolutely fabulous! I have not watched much of Calvin, but I suspect he has fallen victim to the same thing that strikes many spiritual leaders. Pride. I used to watch Taylor Marshall (who notably helped start the Troops of St George in response to the issues w the Boy Scouts of America), but it appears once there was a fawning audience and a monetary stream the tone switched to the dramatic and controversial. When Calvin decides to follow God's will instead of his own, he may step down from the fence he chooses to sit on.

I am a lifelong Catholic who left the Novus Ordo for traditional rite when the bishops ran from the flu and restricted the Sacraments. I'm middle aged and learning my faith for the first time. This video is VERY good.

What we are dealing with here, is a problem for the entire Church (including the Orthodox part). We are dealing with 'CHURCHIANITY'; which is not the same thing as following Jesus of Nazareth in his teachings and his actions. The Eucharist is instituted toward the end of Jesus' life; and well after his care for the poor and damaged. Notice the appeal, here, to institutional authority: even grounding that authority in God, himself. Richard Holloway, in his autobiography, 'LEAVING ALEXANDRIA', scrutinises the Anglo-Catholic tradition (to which he belonged), and notices two flaws: one nostalgic (hinted-at in what you say here, Gavin); but then he continues "If reaching into the past to ransack its wardrobe and props was relatively harmless, the second flaw in the Anglo-Catholic movement was more serious. This was its lack of interest in the future as a source of new inspiration, and an absolute refusal to believe any good could come from it" (p 234). I think Richard Holloway could have included the 'present' here, not merely the 'future': and this is a flaw which could be aimed at the entire Church. It is as though "the mighty works of God" ceased with the designation of some ancient texts as 'scripture'. Of course, the irony is that Holloway concludes that God is, indeed, absent: to the loss of his own faith. With regard to the Articles of the Church of England, remember the religious ferment in which they were forged. Remember the quality of 'Catholicism' against which Luther, Zwingli and Calvin were arguing: as well as the 'quality' of their Protestantism. Both bore more resemblance to the way in which Islam has always been practised, than to a faith derived from that young male Jew, two thousand years ago. And the cause of this collossal mis-step on the part of the entire Church? Why.....worship of texts, rather than the God they are intending to help toreveal. We forgot, "the Sabbath is made for man: not man for the Sabbath."

Well done!

I once met Calvin Robinson (in his Afro days), and he was distinctly underwhelming, although very tall!. Maybe he means well. But these days The Church needs more theologists, spirituality, and less do-goodery. The Catholic Church should be a bastion and fortress, and it's priests truly of The Apostolic Succession. People need this, and they WILL come to a fully authentic Catholic Church and not some waterered down ecumenical mish-mash, or Chrislam, or whatever else Francis proposes (may the Holy Spirit help him please). Anglo Catholics seem to have (whatever their personal discernment or sense of vocation) a rather lower level of spiritual development. Maybe it's the secular culture we live in. Although there exists a hunger for traditional practice and that itself may draw those whose understanding is superficial. Many converts not raised in the culture, seem lacking in deep spiritual DNA. And some just love the cosplay!!

I am a big fan of Calvin Robinson's. We need his sharp intellect in the Catholic Church. I pray every day he'll find his way to the Church. In the meantime, I very much enjoy listening to him when I have the chance.

Wonderful lecture. Thank you.

I am not a catholic but just in the first 15 minutes you have made strong assertions about the Protestants draconian and anti catholic policies (calling them clearly demonic) while simultaneously excusing and the murder of Protestant priests and destroying of their churches by catholic monarchs as unfortunate desperate overreach ( I figured the same demonic forces burning through one side to destroy and murder was equally applicable to the other side for doing the same thing). But truthfully nothing about this is more than you shouldn’t use this term to describe what you believe because I think you’re wrong and the church that I belong said so. For all the mention of chair of St.Peter the current pope sure sounds a lot like Archbishop Justin Welby. So maybe take out the log out of your own eye before taking spec out of another’s eye sounds applicable here.

You are so correct. The dissolution of the monasteries destroyed the social welfare net for the poor. The common people, the nobility and the merchants all believed that some reform of the church was needed as the result of individual corruption, but no one believed for a second that Henry was doing anything other than filling his purse. The result was the Lincolnshire Rising and the Pilgrimage of Grace and other smaller rebellions. In the end and due heavily to Cranmer, they received a muddled collection of Catholic bits and Calvinism presided over by Roman vestment wearing ministers. The continued fracturing of the Anglican community could have been predicted when you can have high church, low church and finally broad church. The lack of a magisterium and submission to authority paved the way for today's total Anglican mess and departures.

someone asked in the comments "When did the Catholic Church become a Roman franchise?". To me the response is in 68 AD, when Peter was crucified in Rome.

Thank you for reading the document of Pope Leo XIII (forgive me if I got the number incorrect here). I greatly appreciate hearing the reasoning verbatim. I had heard of it, but only the outline, as follows: Anglican, and therefore American Episcopalian ordination was invalid because the wording of the Ordination Rite was altered to be made ineffective, and by the time the wording was changed again to try to bring it back into line with the Apostolic ordination, all the successors to the Apostles were dead, and so the line went extinct in the Anglican Church.

As a convert from Protestant ordained ministry, which included a brief dalliance with the ECUSA, I can understand Calvin’ s confusion. In many ways, it was a gift of grace for me to finally understand that simply believing in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, doesn’t mean that Jesus is present in the Eucharist outside of the Catholic mass. You have to accept fully the instrument for the delivery of the Eucharist which God designed, namely the Catholic Church and her priests. The same can be said of holy orders. In time I pray that God will lead Calvin through his own confusion into the light of Christ , which will far outshine his own intellect, and indeed transform it.

Gavin: Thanks so much and God bless you for your erudition and pastoral gentleness during these bizarre & exasperating times!! Is there anyway you could comment on groups such as the SSPX & Old Romans? Thanks so much!! Chris Bates Ithaca, NY USA

You are very well spoken and seem quite sincere. The habitual mistake you are making in your thinking (at least as expressed here) involves the concept that Jesus is found only in the Mass of the Church of Rome. This is just transparently false. There are many good, salvific things about the Roman Catholic Church, but the underlying principle that it is the highest, truest expression of Christianity and that anything else is some degree of Christianity-lite, or perhaps not even really Christianity at all, is profoundly mistaken.

Dr. Ashenden, I think that many of your are criticisms are absolutely valid, Fr. C. won't see them yet, I pray that he does. I have prayed for him to be received into the Church. It would be my hope that perhaps he might pursue priesthood. But that would place him under authority. I have to wonder if that is the problem he's having in the end

Mary Tudor gets a bad rap, and rightly so, one does not go around burning people with whom one has theological disagreements. However for context Mary had approximately 300 executed, Elizabeth I 600, and their father Henry VIII 37,000 of his fellow countrymen from a population of around 3 million.

Calvin is. now displaying what I felt was true of him, but did not want to be true: I think Calvin is a self promoting person, who uses the name of Christ for his own selfish and egotistical ends. Gives me no joy as a Catholic to say this. Let's pray for Calvin.

45:59 It's a perfectly valid and Catholic position, that an office holder, even if he be Pope, would lose office immediatly on starting to preach heresy. This was not defined in the Vatican Council, but it stands in the minutiae of the council proceedings.

Superbly presented, Dr. Ashenden. Dovetailing in with your view, I wrote the following comment to the talk between Marshall and Robinson a few days ago: Taylor did a pretty good job pointing out some of the flaws in CR's rationalization for staying out of the one true Church, but I would have liked to see him make it clear to CR that to the extent he (CR) can show that some papal authority is an abuse of development or over the top, etc., he can fight for a reduction of same within the Roman Church. Staying outside of Christ's one true Church and settling on an incomplete connection to Rome because of some papal personal deficits and other things not liked by CR is just stubborn arrogance. It must also be emphasized over and over again that Jesus Himself purposely singled out Peter for a special role that CR does not want to accept because it took some time for it to unfold, but it was always there. Alas, CR repeats the bogus claim that Peter is merely the first among equals, but that makes Christ's actions and the manner in which He gave him alone the keys to Heaven and nobody else basically ceremonial with no substance. Bottom line: CR is a very good man, but he still wants to dictate to Jesus how he will serve him instead of humbly accepting the reality that one is not a full member of Jesus' Church unless he or she is united to Rome.

I am impressed with Calvin Robinson's defense of basic Christian truths, but he remains Protestant in his flitting from denomination to denomination to be called "Fr." Same problem with his friend Fr. Brett Murphy, who started life as a baptized Roman Catholic! Thanks for your excellent analysis.

Are you referring to the traditional tridentine Roman Catholic Mass or the Novus Ordo Missae?

Even some of the close friends of the King managed to find themselves the victims of the so called reformation.

😂 I was very confused for the first 30 minutes until I realized he wasn’t referring to Calvin as in Calvinism.

God blew with His winds and they were scattered!

Fantastic video

Some Anglo-Catholic priests were accepted into the Roman Catholic church when the Anglican Church allowed women to be priests, they some are among us.

Will Catholics who can. Get to Speakers Corner in London join me to proclaim the Glory of Christ in His One and Holy Catholic, Church, this coming Sunday 16 June. I feel ill equipped for such a task and so ask my Brothers and Sisters in Christ to Join me

It is sometimes interesting to speculate. Let us suppose that I was born in about 600 and lived in Constantinople. As far as I would be concerned, the Emperor would be responsible for the overall temporal good of the Church and the Patriarch would be responsible for pastoral care. If a dispute about a point of doctrine were to arise, I should expect the Emperor to call an Ecumenical Council and for him to summon all of the Bishops from all over the world to attend the Council. The Bishop of Rome would attend, either in person, or by a representative. At the end of the Council, it would report to the Emperor who would accept its report. Then, in the exercise of his Petrine Ministry of “confirming the brethren in the Faith” the Bishop of Rome would give his formal approval to the dogmatic definitions of the Council. So, at that time, I would, of course, be a genuine catholic, orthodox Christian, but the Bishop of Rome would not be involved in any way in the oversight and management of the Church to which I belonged. We have those who say that “outside the Church there is no salvation” and insist that this means being a member of a Church under the direct, day to day, administrative supervision of the Bishop of Rome. However, as a Christian living in Constantinople in 600 AD, this option would not have been available to me. I would have understood the Church as consisting of the Bishops, the Emperor and, in terms of day to day administrative responsibility, the Patriarch. So, the question arises “was I saved?”. Was I part of the Church, outside of which there is no salvation?

Is the 1979 BCP ordinal valid if used by an Old Catholic Bishop?

Gavin.....Book The stripping of the Alters by Eamon Duffy Absolutely brilliant a thousand yrs of Marian England to the destruction of a religion that the English people loved.