I grew up in Dayton Ohio and they did a flyover of 75% of the still flying B-25B Mitchell's. Growing up next to the Air Force Base I saw some cool airplanes fly over but nothing was as crazy as sitting in my living room and the entire house started shaking from the B 25s. They flew over low in formation one of the coolest things I've ever seen
Im a C-130 crew chief and have flown around on them alot over the years. They don't climb fast when loaded heavy. They don't fly fast at all and don't spend much time over 22k feet. For those of you who got your wings shot off, that section of the wing that went missing is where the ailerons are. So those planes would not have survived. Since B-17s had between 10 and 13 of the .50cal guns depending on the year, you would have been better off with fighter escorts on this mission since your AC-130s can only fire to the left and (at least in real life) can only attack ground targets. This was still a cool video.
as a mechanic this video hurts me deeply. the bank angle warning won't shut up because they're about 40 degrees past the bank angle limit of the aircraft which is like 30 degrees
I keep telling people that just because your kit is from 2022-2023 does NOT mean it would have done well at war in 1940-something. It turns out that recency-bias when it comes to ANY and EVERYTHING is a real thing.
Usually great videos but your postulate that C130s can fly higher than B17s is completely absurd. B17s had 4 supercharged engines that worked well up to altitude. Loaded a C130 can only fly to 26k while a B17 (B model) can get to 37k. Typical runs were made between 25 and 30k. Edit: Yes later models of the herc can fly higher including the ac variant. The point was Cap kept saying the b17 couldn’t fly that high, which was false and also was the premise of the video. Thank you internet nerds for pointing out the detail error.
attacking German planes acted like they were attacking historic bombers, with AA guns all over the hull, making unnecessary flybys and losing a lot of time. Since the AC-130 got no AA guns at all and couldn't outrun in speed or height the BF-109 (at least model E-3 and later), the attacking fighters could slow down and stay behind the AC 130 air group, take their time for easy hits and destroy the AC-130 air group within very few minutes. AC-130 would do a far worse job than any allied WW2 Bomber with AA armament.
This. The B-17 may not have goddamn cannons but at least it had guns that were good for its enemies, and more importantly, the B-17 had good coverage of guns. The AC-130 is like if you taped a claymore (sword or bomb, you choose lol) to the side of a chihuaha, and the B-17 is like if you put a bunch of tiny daggers on a pomeranian, yes, the chihuaha does have a better weapon, but it would be unwieldy and only effective at one angle, the pomeranian, however, while not armed with as lethal of a weapon, has completely adequate protection covering all angles.
just makes it as if AC-130 got back in time and germans thought they were b-17. imagine that small movie: Plane where an Airbus get send through time into WW2
The AC-130 orbits at a relatively low altitude and has no defense against enemy aircraft. So I believe no it certainly couldn't have bombed Germany with impunity.
I agree. In thr grand scheme of things, outside of perhaps more modern engines and modern firepower, the plane is similar to the b25. Lots of guns. But it's still a prop plane, and its HUGE. It's a massive target. I think it would have easily still found itself in trouble given that fighters the Germans had were very dangerous . I still firmly believe you would need air superiority for the AC-130 to loiter in 1944. They would get shot down just as easy otherwise.
I honestly would have gone for speed over altitude if you are going straight in - but if you wanted to use altitude to your advantage, why the hell wouldn’t you just climb over allied territory then proceed inbound?! 🤦♂️
I used to spend a fair bit of time in the back of the C130. Sadly we often only had part of the ride paid for and had to get out halfway through the flight. Mostly through the side doors near the back ;). I always remember the take offs. The engine revs going wild, then the pilot would drop the brake and we'd all try and lean towards the front. With only personnel in the back they'd take off like a scalded cat. We landed at an airfield in Italy once when the plane picked up some engine trouble. The crew called for a ladder, an 8 inch adjustable spanner and a hammer! Up went the ladder, up went the cowling, some wrenching and hammering. Put it all back and "Try that". Nope? Rinse and repeat until the engine fired into life. "Right lads, everyone back onboard". Always felt a lot happier in the back of a C130 that the back of a civil air liner.
I call Shenanigans. Real C-130's used to wake us up all the damn time in the barracks. They'd spin those suckers up for, like, 18 days before takeoff, it was annoying as hell and they were damn loud for what they are. EDIT: That was at Eglin, by the way, right next door to the 1st SOW.
The AC-130 is not in any way comparable to the B-17, or any WW2 bomber, simply for the fact that it's capable of accurate bombing. Most bombs dropped during WW2 landed over a mile away from their target.
I call BS on your assertion that most bombs landed a mile away from the targets. What is your source for this statement? Also, are you talking about the daytime bombing missions performed by the U.S. or the nighttime raids preferred by the British?
Fun to watch and I love that you did it. And all I could think of when that 109 was sitting in your 6 was that B-17s have tail guns that would make life very uncomfortable for that dude.
Your videos are really getting top quality as of late. Keep up the good work, Really like your honest breakdowns up-front, Still the best DCS content creator, & ED knows this.
The late physicist Freeman Dyson relates a WWII story about a study of Lancasters which showed they could fly 50 mph faster (and higher?) if the AA turrets were removed which would save more Lancasters than having the AA in place. The mod was rejected because bomber crews were more afraid of being disarmed.
It wasn't a study. Dyson was 19, saw some mail planes heading east going a bit faster and did some maths on a napkin. In reality, unarmed lancasters used for mail delivery were only 15-20mph faster when heading west (i.e. heading home), far from fast enough to avoid German fighters. But even if they were 50mph faster, it was still nowhere near fast enough to evade German interceptors of the time, and shortly after he made the proposal the first German jet fighters were flying, which put an absolute nail in the coffin of Dyson's poorly concieved idea. Further to that, according to Luftwaffe records collected after the war, half of all their interceptions failed BECAUSE of the Lancaster's gunners. So yeah, it was a terrible idea from a man who is honestly most famous for his consistently terrible ideas and flights of fancy and track record of being wrong on a lot of things (by his own begruding admission). He still contributed to a lot of very important science when inspired by or working in collaboration with others. But left to his own devices he was quite a mess.
gosh, if you'd climbed over England to a desired altitude, say.... 18-20k what would you have been at by the time you got to the target area? speed may not have mattered if you got up to 25k. maybe with better or remotely thought out tactics, you could have "operated with impunity"
The 109 and 190 both have a service ceiling of 35-40k ft. The best bet would have been to climb to 33,000 ft and then accelerate up to top speed, THEN start the run to the target, and hope that it takes time for the fighters to catch you
Damage model my ass, you guys should not just have lost the tips of your wings, but all your control surfaces, flaps and pretty much all of the lift generated by the wing. There were some really nasty strafings by the Krauts in the first attack, most, if not all planes should have been severely damaged.
Even in a simulator, before crossing the red line you should gone up to the altitude by circle in around and once you are at the right altitude you go toward your targets. And one thing you have to keep in mind, B-17 many had a long flight before reaching the coast, that gave them enough time to go higher. And you wanted to go above the flight envelope of the german fighters. You should have taken the time to reach the altitude to go above that flight envelope..
Reapers: I would love to see this same mission flown with the B-29 Superfortress! I recently toured "FIFI" the only flying B-29 left. Many B-29 crews were awarded ACE medals due to their high kill ratio against enemy fighter planes. Their .50 cal. guns could be linked together to all fire on the same target, or used on every angle for air defense. Plus the large bomb load!
Pretty cool combat, but if the Allies get the fantasy upgrade with the AC-130's, I think it would be cool to see another go if they were being intercepted by Me 262s (if the modelling for those is available to you).
Turbo jet powered Hercules could be a cool what if spin off/fantasy warfare scenario. This was a really cool comparison. The Hercules is basically an uprated b17 and I would never have thought of that.
It would be interesting to fly this mission with Tu-95s! I got to fly in a C-130E from the Wyoming National Guard from Boise Idaho to Anchorage Alaska in 1988. That was an adventure, especially when you're 14!!
Umm… Have you not heard that the U.S. bombers had turbochargers? In aviation, these mainly serve to compensate the effects of altitude. The thing with bombers aft that era just is that they are pretty slow and not too manoeuverable in general (Although I have read stories of Shorts Stirlings doing aerobatics and a lucky H.P. Halifax out-turning a fighter) and flying in close formations where anything else than flying constantly straight and level brought you into danger of collisions.
The gunsight is in the wrong spot in the cockpit, it should be on the left of the pilot’s station. There would be no point in using the box formation in planes that are unarmed for self-defense against a fighter attack, scattered would have been better to make it harder to get them all. If they had defensive armament, then a box formation would be sensible.
@@TeenTeenFpv I get the formation flying thing, but different aircraft require different tactics. This is the reason you used the Herky Birds was to highlight the differences. That was my thought process on that.
The B17 had turbocharged engines and cruised at between 20 & 30 thousand feet. That’s why the crews wore heated suits and used oxygen. Which is also why the P51 had to operate at 30k ft. And... all of that is why the Germans developed rocket powered interceptor aircraft and the Me262 so they could get up to B17’s before they dropped their payload.
@@skyhorseprice6591 A-6 yes, but compare those with the Canberra, or even the Mosquito..... then again, throw in the ultimate: A wing of Buccaneers going in at wavetop height ready to drop their knickers to put off any pursuing fighters.
In real life the B-17's circled over the home base until they had altitude. The books i read stated that it could take as long as 2 hours. A fully loaded B-17 had about 300 feet per minute rate of climb. OMG, Could you imagine the stress of climbing that slow? You should have at least taken a long lazy circle for another couple of thousand feet. LOL
Interesting start to your video. My Grandads Lancasters squadron flew more daylight raids from June 1944 than it did night raids. Just interesting you chose 1944!!
@@grimreapers Also by August 1944 Germany would have been in full retreat, most of the 88's would have been redeployed and fighter cover minimal, it's an easy almost undefended target.
Love these videos, how ever Germany did have high altitude fighters, arguably late war and not many were made. Fw 190D-9: Engine: Junkers Jumo 213 of 2,240 hp with methanol-water injection. Maximum speed: 426 mph. Range: 520 miles. Ceiling: 40,000 ft.
Exactly, the Dora was never deployed in significant numbers. I think it has been about 150 at all. So no match for those bomber formations. From what I saw in DCS is that 11km altitude is no problem.
would be a better comparison to use B-52s. Takeoff from england, have absolutely no issues going to Germany, dropping off 999999 tomahawks, not giving a shit about GPS cus tomahawks actually dont need GPS cus they reference terrain data with downloaded terrain maps to gauge position, and blowup hitler.
...it's got a higher ceiling than the B-24, is faster and has a higher rate of climb. There were over 18k B-24s. I don't know what you're smoking. If it was setup for bombing, the C-130 is a better plane than anything available as a prop bomber in WW2. It's cruising speed is faster than the cruising speeds of the B-17 and B-24. Absolute altitude doesn't matter as much if you're in and out of the bombing zone in a fraction of the time.
While watching this, I came up with a bizarre idea. First thought is to call it “Circling The Wagons,” in which the AC-130s attempt to fend off attacking aircraft by flying clockwise circles at a high angle so the ground attack guns are nearly level with the horizon. Not a good idea by any stretch, and probably ranges from difficult to impossible to actually do, in real life, yet if we could practice and perfect this technique it would open up an entirely new way to use these amazing aircraft. Continuing this thought experiment, one other problem would be to manage decent anti aircraft coverage would require a minimum of 4.
Gosh darn, I’m about 10 videos in on a 3 day binge with you all and I must say, I LOVE, absolutely LOVE YOU ALL. Keep up the amazing work my beauties. I’ll be here watching for every vid from now on. Cheers!
If you want to learn how it was to fly in a b17 in in 1940 read or listing to that 📕 Combat Crew The Story of 25 Combat Missions Over Europe From the Daily Journal of a B-17 Gunner by John Comer Narrated by Patrick Lawlor
First time ever seeing this simulator and Christ it was exciting to watch lol. I didn’t expect to be on the edge of my seat full of adrenaline at 2:00am but here we are😂
The props on those are so large that once one snapped off and sawed the fuselage in half. Everyone onboard died. Strange incident since we're supposed to be the maintenance military.
lol, fun video! Still, it's a prop driven plane, so Me-109s, also prop driven, can catch up with it... However... 1944... No Me-262 and 163... That would be even more interesting... Oh, and AAA...
Having worked on and flown AC130 gunships for several years, there was never a gunship equipped with 20mm, 30mm, and 105mm. The only combos that ever happened were 20/40/105, 25/40/105, and 30/105. In reality, that's all you get to choose from. And only the last two were capable of pylon mounted bombs.
The Allied use of Turboprop bombers would have caused a response of German accelerated Me-262 production and use, So you should have put up at least a couple of those ahainst the bombers
hypothetically, the F-22 Raptor is a highly advanced and capable fighter aircraft. Each squadron typically consists of around 18 to 24 aircraft. So, if you have ten squadrons of F-22 Raptors, you would have approximately 180 to 240 aircraft in total. This would provide a significant air superiority capability. helped in the battle of britain
You know the c-130 model that’s a flying broadcast station, with the extra antennae on the vertical tail? They used to be based half a mile from my home, so the c-130 was the most frequently seen military plane around here. Very loud, even from the ground!
I live near Dyess AFB in Texas, I get to see these big ass planes flying around all the time. Pretty sure I've even seen them destroying my town in simulated attacks, but I've never been able to ask a pilot about it.
CAP: *_'I'm not used to a 500 ft wingspan.'_* The standard wingspan on a pre-J model C-130 is about 132 ft 7 in. {That wingspan is _"burned everlastingly in my memory,"_ which in this case is a good thing...😊}
Fun Fact The Bomber Crew of the b-17 Old 666 modified their bomber to carry extra guns One of their first missions they flew back towards the AA guns and flew like a AC130 gunship takings out 5 aaguns
little late but I'm confused in the air combat I saw like 1 or 2 German fighters but yet the map showed 20+ fighters I would assume the German's would have sent more than 1-3 fighters at a time. Since if I remember right the bombers needed fighter escort cause they were getting torn up without fighter support. Which would mean there was a hell of alot more German fighters engaging the bombers. Where were the 262's fighters for Germany since this was 1944.
Headcorn is my local airfield. Aero legends fly Tiger moth,Harvard,Spitfire and Dakota flights from there. Good luck getting a heavily laden Herc out of there.😂
They normally formed up and climbed to altitude closer to the coast, not over the airfield. In low visibility weather, they took older bombers and painted them with BRIGHT colors on the nose and added colored polka dots, zig zags or other squadron/group markings so that they could form up on the old plane, then the formation plane broke off and returned to base while the bomber formation went on to attack.
