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Could Modern Games Learn from Retro Games? 

Pat the NES Punk
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Could modern games learn anything from classic games of yesteryear? We discuss what they could implement from retro games.
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14 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 131   
@SegaTron64
@SegaTron64 2 года назад
The replacement of a physical Instruction Manual in a game box with a digital manual is the equivalent of replacing a physical restaurant menu with a QR code taped down to the table.
@Savannah_Simpson
@Savannah_Simpson 2 года назад
Most games don’t even have a digital manual, it’s more like the restaurant relying on you going online and looking at menus other people have posted to know what to order.
@leeartlee915
@leeartlee915 2 года назад
Am I the only person who’s been gaming since the 80s who doesn’t give a shit about manuals? When I buy games used, I’m happy when it doesn’t come with a manual because I can get it cheaper. What am I gonna do, read the manual every time I put the game in my system? I’ll tell you what happened back in the day in my house. You’d read the manual in one of two situations. 1) When you first got a game and you read it before you had a chance to play the game (e.g. the car ride home). 2) I legit couldn’t figure out what I needed to do. That second one often wasn’t even solved by reading the manual. I’m just grateful manuals were replaced with the internet. Now I no longer have to call a 1-900 number or shell out for a stately guide. Not all things from the past were good. Some of them sucked or were relics of the times.
@devilmikey00
@devilmikey00 2 года назад
Resident evil 4 is a master class in how to do a tutorial. You're given the basic controls in about 5 minutes and then tossed into a meat grinder where you need to master the controls or you're going to die. It's tense, it's scary, it's effective and best of all it's fun. You don't even realize you're in a tutorial. Every time I play I find the controls kind of wonky and dated but by the time I've survived the village it feels completely natural. It's perfect.
@mattjohnson6916
@mattjohnson6916 2 года назад
As a librarian I can confirm print media is not dead. While our Ebook and digital services have grown, our circulation of physical books is bigger than ever and continues to grow. I do get patrons in occasionally looking for printed guides or manual to recent releases they think just weren't sold with the game, or don't want to have to shill out the extra bucks to Gamestop or Amazon for something the game should have originally came with.
@evad999
@evad999 2 года назад
MANUALS = YES! Some of my best memories of buying new games as a kid, was the car ride home, crack that sucker open and read the manual... the anticipation gettin' home and kickin' butt... of course, I'd power it on and die in the first 90 seconds, but the whole experience was undeniably memorable. I feel the current generation of youngsters are really missing out.
@WithScienceAsMySheperd
@WithScienceAsMySheperd 2 года назад
imagine my shock opening HADES and seing this gorgeous manual , not standard for switch games nowadays! And I loved my Zelda, Mario 2, Mario 3 Dragon Warrior, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana booklets !!!!
@deedeeramone34
@deedeeramone34 2 года назад
Same here
@neverwin2518
@neverwin2518 2 года назад
A game without a manual is like an album without accompanying art/inserts. Part of the experience of ownership is lost without them. My favorite manual for a game was Warcraft III. It was basically a book complete with background story, concept art of the characters, not to mention the how-tos that would let you hit the ground running when you got to playing the game. It really added to the experience.
@leeartlee915
@leeartlee915 2 года назад
I disagree. I thought manuals were a fun thing to flip through but I rarely found them useful. Would it be nice to still get them? Yeah but not because they are practical. Retro gamers have this odd obsession with CiB stuff. Now that games ARE CiB with just the case and disc, it’s like you’ve been scammed or something.
@leeartlee915
@leeartlee915 2 года назад
I should add that a VERY select games did need manuals (you mentioned an RTS). But even then, most of the time you can just learn what to do through normal gameplay.
@midimusicforever
@midimusicforever 2 года назад
Tutorials are best done in a spread out way, yes. Learn the basics, then a little bit more ta the time as new mechanics are introduced.
@jasonmpeate4887
@jasonmpeate4887 2 года назад
I find, for example, that no man's sky did that really well.
@midimusicforever
@midimusicforever 2 года назад
@@jasonmpeate4887 Yeah, some games do it right.
@pixelpoppyproductions
@pixelpoppyproductions 2 года назад
I really, really enjoyed Stray for the reasons stated here. Beyond the “it’s a cat!” initial hook, there was no stupid 90 minute tutorial. You learned as you went and it felt natural. The story was great, it was “open” but actually linear, and wasn’t so damn long that I could actually beat it without giving up my entire life.
@metrorican
@metrorican 2 года назад
Ah, video game manuals. When I was a kid (and when my mom had the money), we would go to Toys R' US, Electronics Boutique, or KB Toys in Midtown Manhattan and pick up a game. On the subway ride home, I would always open up the box and read the manual so that, when we got home, I could just jump straight into the game without figuring out what to do through trial-and-error. I especially liked the way the WWF Royal Rumble and Raw manuals were written in character with the game, giving it a cool kayfabe feel to it.
@linkgrayson8994
@linkgrayson8994 2 года назад
I love and miss game manuals it was an extension of the game and often time's needed and they're needed even more now because of the complexity of games
@JZekis
@JZekis 2 года назад
I think because of the cost of these AAA games it's become super important to the publishers that these games have long tails where they can keep selling content to players over years and because of that Open World has become the preferred style.
@leeartlee915
@leeartlee915 2 года назад
There’s a lot of reasons why old school game designs have died. But yeah, AAA games are SO expensive to make now it literally can be the difference between a studio staying open or going bankrupt making one game. Consider a game like Mega Man 2. That was considered a AAA game back in the day… but it was made by like 8-12 people. If that game failed, Capcom would have been fine. That’s the reason we have seen the rise of the “indie” developer. They are able to make less risky games that are simpler in their construction. But they typically sell a fraction of what other games do (with some exceptions). Imagine if a company like Ubisoft was trying to stay afloat with games like Blasphemous. That game sold alright but it wouldn’t even keep 10 people employed at a major studio. It’s kinda like AAA games twisted these studios into monsters that have to keep being fed to live.
@jammycooks
@jammycooks 2 года назад
Open world is an illusion! Glad to see Ian echoes my thoughts on the genre.
@spencers4121
@spencers4121 2 года назад
Open world is very much a BS genre tag, very few games are true "open world".
@ianvincent5069
@ianvincent5069 2 года назад
What they really need to learn is finish the game before you release it
@575forza
@575forza 2 года назад
I 100% agree with Ian on the bloat. From fire up to really starting a game can be an hour. I have a Quest 2 and thankfully you cant really have bloat in VR games rn because theyre so technologically demanding, and big. Just beat RE4 a few times on it because 1 its awesome, HIIIIIGHLY recommend, but 2, the tutorial was quick and easy, a few steps but then you figure it out. Everything in the game had a purpose, no waste to random extras. Its like a Honda. It was refreshing.
@IvyLeather13
@IvyLeather13 2 года назад
I'm with Pat in the same way I feel about anime. If someone recommends me some 18 season show that's an immediate no.
@Sly88Frye
@Sly88Frye 2 года назад
You know I've honestly felt kind of the same way about huge open world games. They seem so big and overly complex because there's so much to do. Sometimes I just like actually having direction and I don't mean the stupid hand holding tutorials I just mean like okay I just have to go here and then next I go here and the next I go here and it's really obvious where I go without actually needing to be told where I'm supposed to go as opposed to just choosing wherever the hell I want to go at all. Sometimes I feel like it's just too much choice and then I just kind of lose interest and don't really want to do it.
@bigr4u03
@bigr4u03 2 года назад
I agree 100% with Ian. Too many open world games. I don’t have the attention span to finish them. Lol
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
And now with the live services game, games no longer have an ending. They'll keep going as long as people play them and buy microtransactions.
@magicknight8412
@magicknight8412 2 года назад
I remember the days of buying a game, then on the way home reading the manual or instructions. Always enjoyed that
@mumfnah
@mumfnah 2 года назад
I always have thought Abe's Oddysee was done nicely in how the tutorial is done, wasn't a chore. I've been put off even giving games a fair chance because of long intro tutorials, sometimes I don't have the time. I used to read the old Megadrive manuals on the way home from buying a new game too, was the ritual, get a basics on the controls layout and most the time enjoy some nice artwork too
@EmeraldLavigne
@EmeraldLavigne 2 года назад
Pat channeling his inner 70s pop bank when he says "Gimme, gimme, gimme a manual after midnight"
@enriquepinero707
@enriquepinero707 2 года назад
100% agree with all the items mentioned to bring into modern games; especially that last bit about a good instruction manual (with great art work, a mini synopsis of the back story and the controls/mini strategy on how to play.
@TBustah
@TBustah 2 года назад
If nothing else: bigger isn’t always better. Games have become too big for their own good in a lot of ways. It’s great that we have big AAA titles to play, but how many of those do we really need in a given year? It’s gotten to the point where everything worth playing is either a tiny indie game that doesn’t get enough exposure and has too small of a staff to be supported properly, make sequels, or expand the line, *or* a massive brand-name that costs sixty or seventy dollars to play, a third of the content or more is locked behind paywalls, and it’s made by toxic companies that overwork and underpay their staff. There doesn’t seem to be room for something in between. In part, I think the problem is our lust for the cutting edge. It’s a graphics arms race that eats up resources and often comes at the cost of stable builds and good gameplay. It doesn’t need to be this way. The last twenty years have shown us that there’s plenty of room for a variety of graphical styles. If the studios could learn to dial it back a bit and explore visuals that don’t require a ton of horsepower or manpower, the industry could become more sustainable. More games for the consumer at a lower cost, less stress on the workforce, and more money in the pockets of the studios and publishers. Everybody wins.
@soulless_swede
@soulless_swede 2 года назад
11:53 So Pat thinks that getting tutored while playing is like "cramming for a test", but studying a printed manual on the bus, at breakfast, and in the bathroom before playing isn't? How does that logic work?
@spencers4121
@spencers4121 2 года назад
In game tutorials can throw "everything" at you in a short time. And then throw you into the game, not everyone is going to remember everything from the tutorial. I have experienced this very thing, to the point I had to restart the game just to do the tutorial more then once. Granted this is less of an issue, with so many have the internet on their phone.
@chadbyron1886
@chadbyron1886 2 года назад
I remember Final Fantasy 12's opening in an enormous open world city that took hours to get out of and all the running honestly just to equip some leather boots and leave. The worst starts to a game ever is a huge tutorial and meet and greet in a city.
@claytonwinter374
@claytonwinter374 2 года назад
The diablo2 manual was fricken intense. It was a phonebook!
@spencers4121
@spencers4121 2 года назад
Was very common back in the PC gaming days, to have manuals the size of books. They not only covered the controls etc, but they had details about the complete game in them.
@BobSentell
@BobSentell 2 года назад
I simply want the game industry to settle on a common control scheme so I am not jumping when I mean to interact when I jump between games. The plus side of the NES was A=Jump and B=Attack for every game.
@connorpeppermint8635
@connorpeppermint8635 2 года назад
Dark souls has the best modern tutorial. A handful of pop ups that are one line of info each and you HAVE to interact with them in order to even see them, allowing you to naturally avoid the hints if you're on a second run or don't need them.
@PhillBowser
@PhillBowser 2 года назад
Pat's point about manuals is spot on
@TheRickHoward
@TheRickHoward 2 года назад
Good points. If games were shorter, you wouldn't need so many save points and a kid and his friends could sit for hours strategizing how to beat a game. Better game manuals would be a win! Also, Kudos to me for getting a question answered. It's easier to do when both questions are yours. LOL
@Infinighost
@Infinighost 2 года назад
"Replay factor" used to be a priority in game development and design. I think modern games are far less interested in that quality. Single player AAA titles seem to place emphasis on storytelling and discovery which is great for a first play through, but I rarely find myself wanting to go back through these games. RDR2 is a revelation of game storytelling but I never want to sit through those first snowy hours of the game again.
@575forza
@575forza 2 года назад
And I think that nowadays, especially since Dark Souls ish games, games like gear towards the hardcore speedrunner, grinder, collectionist person who needs the hyper hard challenge. Like for example Cuphead. Cuphead should have been a little easier with a cuphead phycho mode or something, but unlike Mario, you jump in at level 500. There should have been a more progressive challege like SMWs, not just the content geared towards the masochist gamer fan.
@ihavetubes
@ihavetubes 2 года назад
They need to make tutorials fun, just look at Myth 2 for pc, the narrator starts to yell at you if you press the wrong button enough times. Modern gaming just needs to add little details like that to make it more enjoyable. Also, I find it interesting that there are no controls for are feet other than racing games, I can see it being helpful in a lot of different games other than racing.
@Lynxan
@Lynxan 2 года назад
The master class in how to do a tutorial is Portal and Portal 2. The entire game is made to show you how to play it and is so good that you don't even know it is doing it most of the way though.
@shsrpr
@shsrpr 2 года назад
Re: Game length. I agree game length gets out of hand with extra padding that doesn't add anything to the experience. But, with games that are costing more and more to buy, it's good to have a good amount of value for that money, and game length/replayability is a good thing from that perspective. I used to think "if I'm paying $50 for a game, I want to be able to waste at least 15-20+ hours with it." At $70, that sentiment still stands, but I think they've gone overboard in that direction with 100+ hour games.
@BoboBreez
@BoboBreez 2 года назад
Pool is a mile wide but an inch deep. Couldn't have said it better myself
@cutieincosplay
@cutieincosplay 2 года назад
I wish more games were like devil may cry 5 or streets of rage 4 both games have triple AAA graphics/music but the gameplay feels like playing a modern PS2/genesis game 🥰
@ozmond
@ozmond 2 года назад
I swear people are stretching with their questions at this point. It’s been a decade now almost we can just keep regurgitating the same retro topics and questions
@ThatsOnYoutube
@ThatsOnYoutube 2 года назад
Are you too shy to ask if Pat has Mario tattooed on his groin?
@TheRickHoward
@TheRickHoward 2 года назад
I promise you I didn't stretch, i jumped right into the exercise of submitting this question :D
@WithScienceAsMySheperd
@WithScienceAsMySheperd 2 года назад
@5:40 = yes ! When Zelda originally came out it made astatement of open world 8bit gaming. Now every game tries to be Assasin Creed, Fallout, FF7... Some feel empty like QUEST 64!!!! Return to a game concept, don't follow trends, make an HADES, a DarkestDungeon, a Cup Head !!!
@ta7sint
@ta7sint 2 года назад
Yes goddammit. Bring manuals back. It's so stupid that they decided to get rid of them
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
Old DOS games had the greatest manuals. Often a part of the story you could only read in the manual. I remember Doom having a half page of background story on how you got stranded on Mars. PSX games as well. Resident Evil had character bios. Chris was a former air force pilot I learned from the manual even though he was in his early twenties. But got kicked out for not playing by the rules. Rebecca, the team's medic was only 18. Pretty sure, it takes a little more training to become a medic in what's basically a SWAT team. I always found that kinda weird that these special ops guys were all very young. Did Chris join the Air Force straight outta junior high? Except Barry who's 40 or something. Even had their blood types. Which I later learned is a Japanese thing. Kinda like horoscopes. Your bloodgroup is associated with character traits in Japanese folklore (or superstition or whatever you call it. You don't learn these things in the game)
@theSpaceLumberjack
@theSpaceLumberjack 2 года назад
I used to take my PS1 game manuals to school and read them at lunch
@shsrpr
@shsrpr 2 года назад
I used to take my NES manuals to school to do the same. :-)
@stevetrabec9894
@stevetrabec9894 2 года назад
Love the podcast. Since there aren't any new NES Punk vids or much FMM, can Ian get a promotion since you two have been co-hosting the podcast for about 10 years? I think he deserves to have the channel called CU Podcast or Pat and Ian. Make him a full partner!
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
WItcher III did open world good. Because all the side quests are cool little stories with characters that feel real. Rather than your average open world game where the sidequest boil down to "Fetch me ten mushrooms in some cave"
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
I think Doom & Doom Eternal did that very well. There's a lot of Doom AND Quake in those games.
@tiagofernandes8389
@tiagofernandes8389 2 года назад
Prodeus is amazing.
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
@@tiagofernandes8389 Don't know it. Is an old school FPS?
@PrinzessinRamode
@PrinzessinRamode 2 года назад
Here are the problems: 1. Games these days try to be much more than what they actually are. 2. New gimmicks are shoehorned in literally everything. 3. Games are incomplete (1/2 the game is available, 1/2 the game is DLC / paid DLC / patched later). 4. Games are released in broken states, then patched later. 5. Games are simply too damn long. 6. New games try to cover the fact that they are baron and lifeless with famous IPs.
@jaysilva5854
@jaysilva5854 2 года назад
20 to 30 hour games are a perfect sweet spot! Once you get to 40 hours and up devs gotta respect adult gamers time. Also even a small manual maybe 10 pages or less is good to learn the basics while it takes an hour or 10 to download the damn game. Especially games being $70 now.
@DarkZenith
@DarkZenith 2 года назад
The volume levels on this upload is very quiet for ian, I mean like half of normal while pat is spiking super loudly. Did someone forget to volume level?
@bikesnmore
@bikesnmore 2 года назад
Ian, I'm with you RE your comment on liniar games. Playing God of War pc at moment and unlke Elden Ring i don't need to navigate and run in circles half the time.
@michael2244
@michael2244 2 года назад
Are you guys going to the Portland Retro Gaming Expo?
@tiagofernandes8389
@tiagofernandes8389 2 года назад
Videogames are about fun! That's the difference between the old and new.
@superdupergaming8406
@superdupergaming8406 2 года назад
My experience is some of the best games being developed are the AA games and Indie Game developers. There are some games still with the linear aspect. I rarely purchase AAA titles anymore they just don't focus on the parts of the game that makes a game great.
@PhillBowser
@PhillBowser 2 года назад
Ian dropping truth bombs
@RobertGuido
@RobertGuido 2 года назад
I think they have learned. But gaming has evolved more than just the kid thing. As an adult it's nice to be able to go through a game like a book. That's one thing I will say about modern games. It's also why I like the Game Genie for older stuff so that way I can just go through and play Mega Man 2 for example without getting my ass whooped. I'm not 9 years old and I don't have all summer to Beat It
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
Yakuza does it right. The world isn't that big. You can't even drive around and the open world is filled with stuff you can visit and play mini-games and those mini-games are fun and diverse (unlike those in GTA 4, no I don't want to go bowling, cousin) The karaoke and whatnot. That's just fun. If it didn't have those things and it would just be brawling all the time I think it would get old fast. And ofc the many over the top dramatic cutscenes
@whildhair83
@whildhair83 2 года назад
How about learn how to release a finished product on day one
@SFJPMoonGames
@SFJPMoonGames 2 года назад
Good question and one that had been asked since my memory. Yes of course, gameplay will always trump graphics. Simple question and simple answer.
@beast9839
@beast9839 2 года назад
Funny how you talk about that. My friends and I are at that point with controls. I think having similar controls across the board.
@alexanderh.2604
@alexanderh.2604 2 года назад
I‘ve read all my Atari 2600 manuals intensely
@DSoverPSP
@DSoverPSP 2 года назад
On the mile wide but an inch deep thing, sometimes I actually prefer the simplicity of older games. I recently started playing Xenoblade Chronicles on 3DS and it's systems on top of systems, every game mechanic has it's own game mechanics and it feels like everything affects every other thing in some way....I'm nearly 20 hrs in at this point and still haven't gotten my head around it all. Granted I've been taking my time and doing lots of sidequests but still, just the combat by itself can feel overwhelming. Just one example, stop me when it gets to be too much--you can equip different weapons and armor on your characters to adjust their stats like most RPGs, right? Some equipment comes with slots, so you can equip the equipment with gems that alter the stats further in different ways (and some equipment comes pre-equipped with gems which can't be removed). You can get gems from doing sidequests or trading with NPCs, or you can also craft them from ether crystals you collect from defeated enemies. Still following? OK great, so to craft a gem, you can't just pick a crafting recipe from the menu and be done. Each ether crystal has different percentages affecting different stats and you have to stack them so that at least one of the stats reaches 100% or higher, or after 8 crystals the crafting machine is full. Got all that sorted? Wonderful, it's time to start crafting! Except first you have to choose from your party who will be the shooter and who is the engineer, since each character works a little differently in each role. As a shooter, Shulk gets into a Fever easily, but Reyn does better with a stronger flame. As engineer, Reyn is poor with a gentle or medium flame but great with a strong flame, while Shulk is average with medium/strong flames but good with gentle. Keep in mind those are just two characters, there are several more party members later in the game. During the crafting process the shooter will raise a random stat from the crystals over a number of turns, while the engineer adjusts the flame and fills up a meter on the right, the more times the meter fills up the more ether cylinders you can pick up as leftovers for any stats under 100% after all the turns are over. If any of the stats reach 100%, you get a gem for that stat, and at 200%, the gem will level up (did I mention the crystals/gems each have different tiers? because that's also a thing and there's different elemental alignments too) Oh and the numbers of turns you get are determined by the affinity level between the characters you chose, which can be affected by helping each other out in combat, defeating enemies with chain attacks, special heart-to-heart cutscenes if you make the right dialogue choices, accepting or completing different sidequests with the right character as an active party member, or presenting items in your inventory as gifts to your party members which they may like or dislike to different degrees. Just. One. Example. For a side mechanic that's ultimately designed to simply boost a few stats. And this was originally a Wii game, I have no idea how much more convoluted games have gotten in the current gen. So of course, I like having enough depth to sink my teeth into but not so much I choke. The games I like best have clear, strong fundamentals and then let the level/enemy design, atmosphere, skill-based challenge, and overall feel do the talking.
@garygorrent9917
@garygorrent9917 2 года назад
Xenoblade on Wii definitely felt like the largest any game should be. I really liked how open it felt but I agree with the gemstone crafting. It also feels like I'm missing some grander strategy because some gems only give plus 1 to movement speed or reduced fall damage. I can't seem to find enough gems to make a fast build with low fall damage viable. I just do attack and defense. I'm hesitant to start Xenoblade 2 or 3 because they have only made the games bigger.
@DSoverPSP
@DSoverPSP 2 года назад
@@garygorrent9917 I guess it depends on if you're just running around exploring and collecting stuff vs. actively seeking out fights. I'll stick with it as long I'm still making progress but I could see myself bouncing off at some point if it gets too difficult to push through and I still haven't gotten the mechanics down. It's a lot to process but I guess they give you plenty of time to learn it. And yeah I don't want to worry about any of the other Xeno games right now, I'm good lol
@showoffvideo
@showoffvideo 2 года назад
I don't see physical manuals coming back at all, as physical media is disappearing. However, not supplying a digital manual to older remake of games on modern platforms is shameful. I don't understand when people are not more upset about this! My playthough on the Zelda NES on the switch was much easier once I googled the manual after reading 'INCLUDES INVALUABLE MAPS' on it's box art. And the remake of the Mario 3d mario games on switch. It was my first playthough of the GameCube 'Super Mario Sunshine' which have hints in the manual about what to do when you're stuck which I didn't read. I was stuck for hours until I googled the manual and read 'Can juice be used for things other than shooting enemies... ?' Optional hints that were in the manual were great. Allowed you to go at your own pace, and get hints when you actually want then, not when the game thinks you want them.
@Gigabyte1002
@Gigabyte1002 2 года назад
Manuals should make a comeback, but instead of it being game instructions it should just be story to read about the game, extra artwork, and maybe some game tips. No one needs to know that the start button pauses for every game over and over.
@smokeybones598
@smokeybones598 2 года назад
Hey Ian, the last of us is a really good linear game if you haven't played it yet. As for gameplay, I have over 400 hours into skyrim and still haven't beat it
@sasamichan
@sasamichan 2 года назад
Tutorials are a big part of what modern games need to loose. 1. Im not stupid I KNOW how to open a door 2. The Manual was a cool thing I could read in the car on the way home. Oppen my game now, get started learning about it before I play. 3. Manuals had story Good news Story of Seasons Pioneers of Olive town has a manual. Tutorials do have good things in them however I have seen people play games and get stuck because they skipped some thing in the tutorial part. examples 1. a person playing threw all of Zelda with no Fairy bottles because they didn't know you could put fairies in bottles 2. A person getting stuck on a boss because they didn't know how to do the move that hurts the boss that the tutorial told them how to do 3. Some one not knowing where to go in a story when the game just told them where to go I do enjoy open world games and artificial difficulty to make the game longer isn't fun for me either but there are some game play styles that I do miss that only come back when games are intentionally trying to feel vintage. 1. the side scrolling beast em up 2. Heath pick up items and save points 3. Turn based RPGs with random encounters and open world exploration in the case of RPGs modernization made them too linear , removed choices and decreased the number of stats and status you need to keep track of and even made bosses easier to defeat including some fights were you can't loose. where as Side Scrolling plat form games have turned in to 3D free roaming open worlds with quests and NPCs to talk to and chests to open and villages to explore. I also enjoy games with inventory over games that only let you hold one item at a time modern games also add in the ability to auto clear a stage if you get stuck Modern games got rid of cheat codes and sound tests and level skips and replaced them with achievements and un locks modern PC games also made it harder to open up the folder directories and view and save over or copy game assets and made copying and sharing the game harder. I used to be able to put in Sam and Max or the Sims and with it get the game's sound track and view and edit all the sprites and even add my own creations to the game now its harder or impossible to find that information. at least not as easy as click on and open the folder. and if I wanted to share PC game I just had to get a blank flop and copy the old game to the new floppy and have 2 perfect copies of that game to freely share with friends who couldn't afford games now you need to enter codes to prove you bought it. It was a real hit to PC rentals and now with digital games you can't even rent a Switch game.
@deedeeramone34
@deedeeramone34 2 года назад
You have valid points but the internet does exist and I find it hard that someone with a modern gaming console/PC can’t look up basic things like “what do you do with the bottles in Zelda/etc”
@sasamichan
@sasamichan 2 года назад
@@deedeeramone34 The thing is they are too lazy and try to seep through the game but I've seen variants of the example happen a few times
@Morgil27
@Morgil27 2 года назад
That grading/reselling question is never gonna win, lol.
@drunkenbuttons606
@drunkenbuttons606 2 года назад
For starters modern games should go back to being complete on release. Couch co-op shouldn't be an after thought. Every genre of game does not need to have souls-like, rougue-like, or have rpg mechanics.
@Lynxan
@Lynxan 2 года назад
I would say Zelda was one of the first open world games. It was basic, the first Zelda let you go anywhere on the overworld map. That is as open as a game could be on a system like that.
@spencers4121
@spencers4121 2 года назад
Maybe for the consoles, even then I'm sure some would argue even that point. Just off the top of my head something like Adventure for the Atari, might be seen as "open world" to some. To me "open world" means I can go any place in game, and the "NPC's" don't scale with me. Something like Morrowind comes to mind, can skip the main story. Explore all the world, and die to monsters higher level then you.
@groalerable
@groalerable 2 года назад
-Have challenge and consequence for losing. -Only use RPG stats/Itemization if the game has real build variety. Otherwise just give me the items at the necessary time. -Try to innovate gameplay rather than doing the same thing as every other game. -Make some games with highly kinetic gameplay rather than stat based. Or try something new with turn based gameplay. -Open worlds are not always needed. Linear is not bad. -Sometimes generative is better than "hand crafted.' -Make more games that focus on one thing. -Let me get into the gameplay. A lot of story is not always needed. Role play and especially faux-roleplay are not always needed. -Make games with a variety of graphic styles.
@JohnKelly2
@JohnKelly2 2 года назад
Open world games marketing: You can do anything you want! Reality: 98% of buildings are just walls, there's nothing to see except the same 7 textures over and over, we only have 5 missions, but now we have ray tracing!
@Tuxon86
@Tuxon86 2 года назад
You can "win" or at least "score" in a retro game. Modern game seems to be endless, with no end goal.
@Arsene_Lupin_the_3rd
@Arsene_Lupin_the_3rd 2 года назад
We desperately need a "game design bible" to comomerate all games that introduced revolutionaly gameplay, UI and quality of life solutions. So people would stop making games with backwards 90s era mechanics that just don't work and default key bindings that "were desinged for someone with 3 arms and 1 leg".
@Svante
@Svante 2 года назад
No tutorials and handholding. And less cinematic crap. I wanna play a game, not watch an interactive movie.
@MasterZebulin
@MasterZebulin 2 года назад
Interactive movie? You mean like Metal Gear Solid 4?
@eightsprites
@eightsprites 2 года назад
Totally agree. Same for me. Still playing Super Mario on NES. For that reason, no BS just game!
@elektrosoundwave
@elektrosoundwave 2 года назад
I'd be fine with a PDF manual.
@marceltiel7919
@marceltiel7919 2 года назад
Hah, interesting title... First thing that comes in mind is; substance in game design over graphics and replayability... Most annoying thing about modern games is indeed tutorials, retro games from the 80-ies had that...or cutscenes which cannot be skipped.
@fabledghost
@fabledghost 2 года назад
You guys explain most of my complaints with modern games. Sometimes less is more. Doom eternal too many rpg mechanics I just want to shoot demons and rip and tear like in doom 2016. Persona 5 I loved it but stopped playing after 90 hours I just got bored even though I want to finish the game but it has been so long I don't want to just jump right back in and i don't want to restart it from the beginning either. Open world games I can't follow the story. I come across a quest talk to somebody and they act like my best friend, but it's been so long since I last saw them I don't remember who they are.
@BillyBetYT
@BillyBetYT 2 года назад
When tutorials are done right you don’t know they’re there…
@thomasberry4486
@thomasberry4486 2 года назад
While the first level of Super Mario Bros was a great tutorial, I recall the first 30 minutes of Super Paper Mario on the Wii really testing my ADHD. I’m not sure why they added so much dialogue and tutorial to a simple platformer. I seem to recall a lot of Nintendo games of that generation being released with too much handholding. The tutorials in Skyward Sword are painful to sit through again.
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan
@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 2 года назад
I also remember game reviewers giving short linear games worse scores for not being open world and short around the time we went from PS3 to PS4. And games were worse off. Mass Effect Andromeda would've been better if it wasn't open world but streamlined like the first three. Same with Dragon Age Inquisition. Go pick your own damn mushrooms you random NPC Same with Metal Gear Solid V. I love that game, but the level design isn't as tightly designed as the older games and it was bloated to the point some sidemissions were literally the same but with more enemies.
@live2ride9696
@live2ride9696 2 года назад
Perfectly summed up. I can't stand open world games. To me, they lack direction and focus. I've avoided Witcher 3, even though it looks like it's right up my alley, because I won't invest 75-100 hours into any game.
@paulhart7739
@paulhart7739 2 года назад
The manual costs like 5 cents to print. For a game that sells 20 million copies that’s a million bucks in extra costs
@CuCuz305
@CuCuz305 2 года назад
Ian, have you played the Uncharted games? Love them!
@TheCreepypro
@TheCreepypro Год назад
how to make a good linear game with engaging gameplay or story or even both
@noir66146
@noir66146 2 года назад
@ 9:07 bruh.... true i think if you follow the game guide booklet, final fantasy 12 takes you around 300 hours to beat, if you grind out every map before every boss and go for 100% completion. but that's not my point... there are NUMEROUS hidden MISSABLE items... which means you could easily sink hundreds of hours into a save file only to realize you'll never unlock an ultimate weapon or spell simply because you forgot to open a particular chest here or steal from a particular dungeon boss that won't ever respawn. now i'm a fan of old school games that base their replay value in such content, or games that give you a save+ file after completing the game; where you can restart the entire game but retain all of your items and stats or something.... not ff12 man.... not ff12.... you play for 125 hours and forget to grab a particular item from a boss fight because you were so amped up for after dungeon crawling for 3 hours you forgot to save before hand ? HAVE FUN RESTARTING YOUR ENTIRE GAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CUHZ THEY DON'T CARE !
@MrJechgo
@MrJechgo 2 года назад
"Making complete games without resorting to DLC or microtransactions to fill the blanks"...
@matthewcortazzo2739
@matthewcortazzo2739 2 года назад
Ian you would probably like Kena bridge of spirits
@KrytenXBP
@KrytenXBP 2 года назад
WWE 2K should learn from Fire Pro Wrestling that you don't need realistic graphics to make a fun Wrestling game.
@jasonmpeate4887
@jasonmpeate4887 2 года назад
Issue nowadays is that games have "content" and not substance. And the manuals were effin' great.
@paulhart7739
@paulhart7739 2 года назад
Stop making random generated rogue-like game
@leeartlee915
@leeartlee915 2 года назад
But what about old school RPGs? Those are some of the most bloated games ever made. I get what you’re saying about tutorials but retro games have a lot of bloat in them too. If we are talking platformers, sure, I’m with you. But people forget how some games did hold your hand back in the 90s. I am with Ian on linear games. I don’t have enough time or patience for games that take 30-50 hours. We need more bite sized games. It’s one of the reasons I loved the Uncharted games. The new God of War games are worth it though. That game was fucking awesome.
@ThatsOnYoutube
@ThatsOnYoutube 2 года назад
None of the modern games are released on Nintendo 64.
@michael_stout79
@michael_stout79 2 года назад
I gotta poop let me think about it
@khiclark31
@khiclark31 2 года назад
A return of the game manual would be better
@juicybear1986
@juicybear1986 2 года назад
I think nintendo is way ahead of the curve with how they are approaching gaming. Xbox and playstation are in this graphical race where so much of the development process is focused on making things look realistic. This is so fascinating to me because it's been proven time and time again that graphics do not make a game good. The gameplay itself does. Graphics can help but at the end of the day it's only a small part of the equation. Look at the success of the switch. Breath of the wild is not a graphical masterpiece but it still is a masterpiece. Nintendo is genius in that they can experiment with games like mario and rabbids which in the end makes a console like the switch far more appealing because the library of games goes way beyond "the next call of duty, madden or GTA" which is how I see the other consoles. And frankly it's boring to me. It's a classic case of sometimes less is more.
@thecunninlynguist
@thecunninlynguist 2 года назад
I would hope ao
@chicawe
@chicawe 2 года назад
Yeah!!! bring back manuals !!!!!
@j-morecoffeepls
@j-morecoffeepls 2 года назад
Wish we could just always have the option to skip tutorials.
@DucaleEfston
@DucaleEfston 2 года назад
I wish modern games focused more on making fun gameplay than making these super generic stories. I play games to play them, not to watch 3 hours of cut scenes. Maybe that's why Souls games appeal to me so much and the current narrative driven games just bore me to death.
@ProWrestlingReality
@ProWrestlingReality 2 года назад
Ian should be behind bars...If the allegations about him using fan donation money for his medical issues in which he was told to do 5 min of stretches each day are true...Sickos....
@mikel6989
@mikel6989 2 года назад
Reading the manual is like watching the trailer before you go and see the movie.
@SaviorGabriel
@SaviorGabriel 2 года назад
One thing modern games could learn from retro games is to learn to make the most of the hardware you have, and learn to work around limitations. Developers had to work around limitations back then, and they achieved wonderful things as a result. Another thing modern games could learn from retro games. Make your games "games", not "experiences". Seriously, I'm so fucking sick of that term! It sounds so pretentious. You're not making the next Titanic, or Citizen Kane.
@casualfocus1371
@casualfocus1371 2 года назад
Remove scripting for a start
@chocolocojames213
@chocolocojames213 2 года назад
I remember wanting to quit Astral chain because the tutorial is so poorly designed. The whole game was really mediocre to me. Nothing to write home about 😣😣😣
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