Could They Have Won in 94 & 95? 

Sorry for the late upload! Had an internet outage today, and it just finally came back on. In your own words, what happens in 94 and 95 if MJ never retires the first time?

Even if they won in 94 and 95, that doesn't mean they won in 96, 97 and 98. That's not how things work.

There is a huge factor people dismiss: Championship fatigue. It's what makes 3peat such a unique thing.

Even as a huge Jordan fan, I'm somewhat happy he left, and Hakeem got his chance to shine. Jordan, justifiably, overshadowed so many incredible players during his era. A match up beween the two would have been interesting considering they play different positions. The Rockets would be unable to stop Jordan, and the Bulls would have been unable to stop Hakeem so it would come down to the roll players, in my opinion. In that scenario, I'd give the edge to the Bulls.

I think the biggest question is would Jordan and company have had enough steam to play in 8 straight finals. I'm of the mind that Jordan playing baseball refreshed him enough to get that second three peat.

I’m of the belief that the bulls would have had no answer for Hakeem in 94. Jordan just came off of the 7 best seasons ever strung together. That break was necessary because you could tell he was burnt out from the effort he put forth. He came back a step slower but he needed that break.

Horace Grant is the contributing factor to whether they win or not. he left the Bulls when MJ was gone thinking he wouldn’t come back. and that exposed the Bulls’ size weakness. thus they had to gamble on Rodman which help them win the second 3 peat. if Grant stays then who knows what happens in 1995 to 1998.

I think that if MJ had continued to play through the “retirement seasons”, his career might have played out very differently. The continued finals appearances are exhausting and even damaging. I think the retirement served Michael very well. I loved your take ❤on

Scottie's 94 season is vastly underrated. The dunk on Ewing is top 10 all time, given it was Game 7. Absolutely one my favorites of all time. Rockets would've been a tough matchup.

If Bulls kept Grant, yes. Kukoc and Kerr would have grown faster with Jordan AND Pippen pushing them sooner.

Spot-on Jonny! The points you made were absolutely 💯 valid and I agree. Both teams were better in ‘94 but Chi with the edge. Both worse in ‘95 but Hou with the edge.

I agree with your assessment, and I say this as a Bulls fan who grew watching basketball during that era.

As one of the biggest bulls and Jordan/pippen fans and an adult during this time. If he didn’t retire you could make an argument those last two rings may not have been one either. He would have been gassed by then, add in Pippen staying out most of 97-98, perhaps he still wouldn’t have gotten 6, especially 7 though.

We don't even need to watch the entire video before we know it's a good one. Jonny just dropping a video makes it good. No the Bulls would not have beaten them both years. I'm not saying the Rockets win both, but it's hard to believe either wins both. The interesting thing is the Horace Grant situation. I'm not sure Grant leaves if Jordan doesn't leave first.

What people don't take into account in this scenario is that a big part of why Jordan was able to win a 2nd three-peat is due to him ACTUALLY retiring in 93. Like sure, you can go ahead and play out the 94 and 95 finals with the Bulls + prime MJ against the Rockets and maybe he wins 1 of those but I just don't see him 3-peating again in 96-98. They definitely don't beat the Jazz twice, so if Jordan doesn't retire, I still have him winning 6 chips with them losing atleast 1 finals against both the Rockets and Jazz.

The Bulls maybe win in 94, but I doubt it. Hakeem was on a mission in those seasons. Also winning title after title gets tiring. Even if they won in 94, I doubt they would’ve won 8 straight. Plus in the real timeline they already lost in 95 even with mike

At best MJ would win 7 rings. He wouldn’t win 8, Olajuwon was so extremely dominant at that time. He destroyed prime Robinson, Ewing and Shaq. He would’ve killed Bulls’ weak big men. Watching Olajuwon play then in the playoffs was awe inspiring.

My opinion is that if he never left he wins 4, maybe 5. The biggest factor being that I think with where he was as far as headspace, he needed that time away from basketball. Yeah, maybe 94, maybe even 95. But the other big factor is the Jerrys very possibly would have blown up the team after 4 or 5 straight. That idea is a big part of the story at the end of the second 3 peat.

Thank you for another dope content, Johnny!

Jonny Arnett, amazing video bro

I respect this entire page.

Jonny Arnett, nice content keep it up dude

I think if MJ never retired the 1st time in fall of 93, I think they win that chip in 94, but depending on if Horace stays or leaves, in 95, if Horace stays, I think they would still win, but if Horace still left after the 93-94 season, and they didn't acquire D-Rod, I think the Rockets win in 95, then the Bulls go on to 3peat from 96-98

I think they win one out of those two. And to you Jonny it’s hard to find your type these days now social media is filled with toxic minds

What you should focus on is a 1 year of absence in playing Basketball! Then returned 17 games regular season, given the fact that he wasnt 100 percent yet averaging 30pts. Now, what if he never retired, he wouldve never lost his prowess and mastery

I think 94 is a real possibility but afterwards I think their chances of winning drop a good bit because while MJ is one of the greatest winners of all time, he could probably not keep up this pace to win 7 championships. I think that they don't 3 peat in the late 90s but do get at least 1 more championship maybe even 2. MJ would finish with 5-6 rings and maybe 0-1 finals losses. The constant grind would have gotten to the Bulls and the talent pool of the 90s would have certainly given them a run for their money every single year.

Great analysis and video, Jonny! I've gone back and forth about how many rings Chicago would've won if MJ didn't retire. Your case is compelling, and I can see them winning in 94 but losing in 1995. I also think it's feasible that they win 7 and with MJ at the helm, I definitely think it's probable. However, I do wonder about how exhausted the Bulls would be. Plus, there would be a lot of pressure after winning 4 straight and then going for a 3 peat. The Bulls handled pressure well, but the pressure and, probably more importantly, the exhaustion, would've been a factor. Great work again, Jonny. Have a great evening :).

Jonny Arnett, awesome video I loved it

Very compelling case for the Bulls winning in 1994. As mentally exhausted as MJ may have been, a 4-peat would have been tempting for his pride. In 1995, losing Horace but starting the sseason with MJ would have meant trying to swing a trade or free agent signing to stay in title contention. A notable inside player who ended up being available (via mid-season trade) was PF/C Kevin Willis, who would have cost some players but would have beefed up their rebounding and interior defense.

I cannot bet against MJ in the 90s

11:03 These clips were from a game on January 19th, 1997. Charles Barkley was on the sideline due to an ankle injury against the Jazz a few days prior. Dennis Rodman was on the sideline due to serving an 11 game suspension after kicking cameraman, Eugene Amos against the Timberwolves a couple of days prior. Hakeem Olajuwon had a fantastic game that day against Bill Wennington, as this was his stat line: Hakeem: 32PTS, 16REB, 4AST, 4STL, 5BLK, 56FG%. The Rockets won the game in a blowout 102-86.

Take another bow. Great video!

Thank you for another insightful content Jonny. Im always tuning in.

Great video, I'm with you that they probably would've won in 94. But honestly, if MJ never retired I don't believe that they could've threepeated in 96-98. That would also change the GOAT debate completely.

This is why I considered Jordan as the goat, because there are literally hundreds of amazing players that were overshadowed because of Jordan’s greatness

Great video Jonny! 👍

As a person thats played both competitive baseball and basketball, i damn sure couldn't just drop the bat and pick up the ball. When i tried it was like my handles were gone and i was a pg. The ball didnt bounce right it felt like and my shots were way off due to my upper body being much stronger. It shows the pure basketball talent that Jordan was. He could actually do that and still be an allstar level pl.

10 championships in 8 years. No competition

If you watched any of the games that they played against each other from 91 through 93 you would see how they actually matched up with each other. The Rockets could actually slow MJ down. Hakeem made him think twice before driving to the basket and Vernon Maxwell would piss him off so much that MJ would abandon the triangle and make it a 1 on 1. The Rockets also disrupted the passing lanes just as good as any defensive teams in the history of the NBA. They got a lot of quick pick sixes on the Bulls and a lot of deflections that led to long outlet passes for uncontested layups. On the other end the Bulls literally had nothing for Hakeem. Phill Jackson left his centers out there alone with him most of the time because anytime the Bulls double teamed him Hakeem would pass out to the perimeter for a 3. Their inside out game is what the basket ball gods imagined when they invented the universe. So the Rockets already had the head to head advantage through those three years, then you add Sam Cassell in 94? The Rockets take it in 94 in 5 games. If Horace stays on the Bulls + Kukoc, against the 95 Rockets finals line up, The bulls win in 6-7. Without Horace, the Rockets in 6.

YT really loves this guy

Dope vid Johnny, I’m of the belief that had Jordan not left, they winning 8 straight titles ,from 1990-1998, 8 straight titles is hard to ignore

Definitely would've won 8. Jordan was unstoppable and people doubting him would've only made him take it personal 💀

The Knicks topped the East in '93 and lost the top-seed tiebreaker in '94 to Atlanta. The Pacers were also frisky in '94. The chances of the Bulls advancing are pretty strong since the Knicks clinched their series in seven games (without Jordan). The Rockets were a bad match-up for the Bulls; the Bulls were 2-6 against the Rockets from the 89-90 to 92-93 seasons. Hakeem was a match-up nightmare for the Bulls centers. It would likely have been the toughest Finals match-up for the Bulls in the Jordan era. In the 2-3-2 format and Rockets holding home court, Rockets win. If the Bulls managed to get homecourt, Bulls win. 1994-95 without Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong the Bulls still lose even if they got all the way to the Finals.

BJ was on the team in 1995 as well. The guys that left after 1994 were Scott Williams, Cartwright, Paxson and Grant. Also, there was no danger of not being able to acquire Kukoc since he was drafted by the team years earlier and thus the Bulls owned his rights.

Yea that 94 bulls team would definitely have been the deepest one we'd ever seen especially with Cartright plus Horace and BJ, Kerr, and Kukoc shooting 3s. The rockets had a deep bench, but this would have been an all time deep roster for the bulls in 94. I agree with the take on 95. It is worth noting that the Rockets lost some depth like losing Maxwell, but the matchup issue would cause so many problems with rebounding and such.

Thank you for being objective about this. I know the Jordan Stans are going to go crazy, but the reason I’m subbed to your channel is because you are objective and based in reality. I agree with you on both accounts. I give Chicago -250 odds of winning in 94-55. And +300 odds of winning in 95-96.

people thinking the bulls make it past the magic and rockets both years are smoking crack

This is a crazy coincidence johnny im a new creator and you inspired me, my first video was on Olajuwon

Man that 94 team tell me a lot about why Jordan was so dominant as far as team winning

I don’t think MJs athleticism ever recovered from his 18 months playing baseball. He was a lot more polished when the 1996 season started, but his insane athleticism had taken a dip. He was still a freak of nature, but he was never the same as before.

Always lookin forward for new videos 🎉

Interesting to think this Bulls team hypothetically had decent chances to win 10 straight titles assuming most things lined up how it did in our timeline. 1990 if they hadn’t had some bad luck, 94-95 and 1999 had Jordan not retired. Obviously they lost in the East in 1990 so that never happened and it’s unlikely they win 94,95 and 99. add on top of that other factors like fatigue, championship complacency ect. Incredibly unlikely. But hey, maybe it happened in an alternate timeline haha.

Jordan and Olajuwon are my 2 fav players and I completely agree with this!

Hard to say. Bulls split Ws agains Rockets in 93/94 and 94/95 seasons and Hakeem had some bad games versus bulls without MJ. In two of this games he had too many turnovers - 7 and 8. In other one he was shooting 2/18. I guess couch Phil had some ideas about stoping Hakeem.

bulls have no answer for hakeem, he would be by far the best matchup that jordan faced. this would probably be the game 7 series in the finals, and the rockets were 7-1 against jordan before he left for baseball. i think theyd each win one championship. rockets would most likely win with that drexler team

After reading most of the comments, one thing sticks out in my mind. MJ's desire and will to win. Nobody mentions that. No player before, or after, has ever had that will, that need, to win. I'm not a gambler but, if I was, I would never have bet against MJ.

Great video! I’d love to see another hypothetical. What if Hakeem, MJ, and Charles Barkley decided to join forces after 6 years of failing to win a championship to form a super team similar to Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. What team are they all going to and how successful do you think they can be.

Everything you said was facts!!

IMO yes because Michael Jordan is THE GOAT

Over their six championship seasons, the Bulls had a winning record against every team in the NBA except 1. That team was the Rockets, and the W/L record includes a season when the didn't make the playoffs.

The thing is about changing the timeline, keep Grant & no Rodman? Too many variables to accurately say... But still fun. Keep em coming Jonny! ❤ the videos

Now in the 94 to 95 season the East was loaded back then you had the bulls with or even without Jordan had to contend with the likes of the knicks , magic , pacers , jazz , hawks ,heat , nets , cavs , Supersonics ,trailblazers list goes on . hell not even my Celtics or lakers couldn’t of played out of a wet paper bag back then the way they we’re stinking up the joint

Too many variables to consider honestly, and many of them were pointed out in other comments. One thing I would mention is that the '95 run for the Rockets was a tough one, but the Jazz won 59 games, the Suns 60 games, and the Spurs 62 games. Their finals opponent (Magic) had the least wins of any team they faced - and they won 57. It could've been, top to bottom, the toughest finals run in history, one they closed out sweeping the team that beat Jordan's Bulls. If the Rockets in '95 swept Shaq/Grant in the finals, I don't see why it would've been any different in '94 when the Bulls had Grant. That said, if the Bulls lost in '94 with Jordan still there, he may have been invigorated to win in '95 (as he was after the loss to the Magic). Ultimately, the Bulls would've had a chance certainly. But I doubt they would've been massive favorites in '94 - Rockets won 58 games, so I'd probably say the Bulls would've been -200 or so given their three-peat. And if they lost, they likely would've been underdogs in '95.

I agree, the fairest view on this is the Bulls/Rockets probably split the 2 Chips Hakeem got. I'm thinking the 94 Bulls team, still with Horace, would've won. The 95 team with no Horace or Rodman likely loses, also exhaustion of 4 straight Chip runs for the Bulls.

94 was The Dream season... but Bulls would have still took it. 95 without a doubt.

As a Bulls and MJ fan I’d love to think about 8 straight rings but I do agree with you. The only thing to consider in this hypothetical scenario, is that in 94-95 season I want to believe Krause would maybe acquire a center or a pf to complete the roster so the Bulls would may not be that weak. Also in this “reality” I don’t know if the Bulls would be able to win another 3 straight to get to 8, I say this ‘cause already win 3 straight plus other 3 straight in possibility the toughest era was unreal, win 8 straight would be almost impossible from a mental standpoint more than anything else, but for sure in that case at least we wouldn’t have to listen to any kind of Goat debate as MJ would have also 2 more scoring title (so 12 straight!!!!) and at least one more season MVP and 2 more finals MVP!!!

There's another hypotetical.The bulls went after Rodman after losing against Orlando and see they were flawed in the paint. If Grant stayed. Even if they win 5 chips straight, without the worm nothing guarantees the second threepeat we know today. So it would be a commendable thing. To win 5 straight, but in other hand it would be one ring less to Jordan's resume.

Great conversation and video as always brother. I have it reversed. I have the Rockets in 94 and Bulls in 95 with MJ both series.

Two factors I think are huge to what Jordan would be able to do if not retired. He was not playing basketball for the stretch of his baseball career, so he lost the routine there. That he was able to come back so quick when he actually did, is a sign of his will, work ethic and focus. But he never reached that level again. I am pretty confident in my opinion that if he never left, he would’ve played like in 93‘ and that was an unstoppable version of him. Second factor is the will to win. To repeat and repeat again is hard, but to do it 8 times in a row, I cannot see that. Even Jordan himself said, if there was a moment he couldn’t challenge himself to get better, he stepped away from the game. Jordan was on the top all of his NBA career and he never choked, so if one man would be able to do that, then it might be MJ.

What's so crazy is I can see both sides of the debate....another thing that's crazy is the rockets had issues with the sonics...and the bulls took care of them

Honestly, beyond 1993-94, it's almost impossible to say whether they would have won if MJ hadn't retired; the roster construction becomes so much harder to say where it would have gone, and even if they had everything stay the same roster-wise, and hell, even if Horace Grant stays in Chicago, I find it hard to believe that they would have won 8 straight. For one, they would have played a cumulative total of 10 seasons in those 8 years by the end (~20 playoff games a year), and so durability and just general maintenance would have been sacrificed. IMO, if Jordan never retires, they lose in '96 to the Sonics, which was probably already the closest final the 90s Bulls played in. As for '97 and '98, it also becomes far more possible that nagging injuries and the weight of all that playoff basketball would have given the Jazz one of those series, particularly in '98. Ultimately, I think 6 rings is most likely, 7 is the best case scenario, and 8 would have been storybook, but we don't live in a storybook. Nothing ever quite turns out how we want it to.

The real question is his motivation for leaving. Because I genuinely believe that his father's death was the biggest, if not the sole reason why he quit. I think that had he chosen to stay after his father's passing, we would have witnessed a prime Jordan, even more motivated to win in dedication to his father. All bets are off because that would be the ultimate case of MJ taking something personally.

Rockets were just a bad match up for the Bulls. While Hakeem isn't Shaq, an inside out strategy would have worked perfectly against the Bulls. You'd basically need to Hack-a-Hakeem to have a hope and if Grant or Cartwright were fouled out, then you'd have no hope. Plus I do think that people forget how good that Rockets supporting cast was. You can't ever win a Championship with only one good player. It takes a team.

I have been wondering for a while about how much the perception of supporting players influenced by if their superstar team mate was able to will them to championship or not. I know it would be a huge task but I would love to see a video about this

I think the Rockets win most games in 94 against the Bulls, their 3 point shooting depth combined with Hakeem is just something the Bulls were unequipped to deal with. However, the Bulls are going to have home court advantage because they would have a better record, so it's really hard for me to say who wins in a best of 7. It really ultimately comes down to how well Vernon Maxwell plays, not MJ. Mad Max was one of the most frustrating players to watch, especially as a Rockets fan. When he was at his best, he was almost Jordan's equal; basically Rodman's smothering, frustrating defense and a great slasher and 3 point shooter. But then the next game or even next quarter, he'd brick all his shots and make a bunch of stupid fouls and remove himself from the game.

I agree with you about the four peat. I have to wonder after not winning the following year if some dominoes may have changed preventing the next three peat. Maybe the Jazz win one of that timeline.

So I’m from Chicago and I grew up during this era, and I know for a fact MJ would’ve gotten the most out of some of the bigs like Larry Krystowiak, Corie Blount, Greg Foster, and Luc Longley(who u forgot to mention). The overall team iq and killer instinct they had as a squad are reasons I’d never bet against MJ and Scottie.

I remember the mindset of Chicago during the 95 season, their on a verge of a rebuilt coz Pip was getting very difficult already and the team was under achieving, Jerry was already contemplating on trading him, if Jordan was there from the start I think Kruss would have surrounded the team with better or at least at par with the talent of BJ and Horace and they would have still completed better and with Jordan's mindset

Jordan mentioned to Bill Russell that they were going to go after 8 straight before his dad passed. I think they get the 4 peat, but I don't think they get 5 straight. They would've still picked up Ron Harper, as pax retired and bj went to Golden State. Which makes me believe they still go out and try to acquire Dennis rodman, and the other 3 peat stays intact

Remember, the Rockets had a deep roster, with an excellent defense, during their championship seasons and Chicago never had to face a dominant big man in any of the six finals appearances, and at that time Hakeem was the best big man in the world.

Honestly I think Jordan most iconic playoff run wouldve been if he won a chip with the wizards. I know its a one in a billion possibility but still. Think about how they would talk about jordan now if he won a chip in 02. I know that woudlve been better than winning with the bulls. Just beacuse of the narrative. Theyd be saying he was so dominant he just left the front iffice and decided to win another chip . Then again after 02 even if he won the chip he probably wouldve had worse body problems than kobe trying to carry the lakers to the finals on a jacked up body. Hed be like ronnie coleman photos after his career

Im with you , i have always believed that the 93-94 would have been the only yr the bulls could have beaten the Rockets for the reasons you mentioned. Now something not everyone knows or remembers is H.Grant had agreed to come back only to back out and sign with Orlando so i honestly believe he would have still left in 94-95 the bulls would have lost to Houston and still acquired D.Rodman and go on to do what they did.

I think they would have gotten someone to replace the inside presence once they lost Horace if Jordan was there. Not sure who, can't remember the free agency was like back then lol but it would have been a must. Cause after Horace left, that's when they wanted to rebuild after the next season.

If Jordan doesn't retire in 94 I don't know why we assume they still win in 96-98

It's one of the biggest if's ever. It would be a fun series though.

The issue was not that MJ didn't perform in 95 playoffs, the thing is he was rusty. The edge he normally had as the end of the games was not there, the confidence, making unusual mistakes. I mean he was the best player, but with not having played for almost 2 years does make you lose a bit of effectiveness. And btw Kukoc was already signed by the Bulls before MJ retired.

I think a big part of the Rockets winning in 95 was them winning in 94. Heart of a champion.

Jumping in at the 7.55 mark, OT easily cancells out Horace Grant impact on the game. Mad Max is giving MJ some resistance. Houston also outclasses Chicago behind the 3pt line

I believe that Chicago wins in 7 games against Houston in ‘94 but I think Houston comes back the next year in ‘95 with Clyde and wins in 6 games respectively. I think Jordan and Dream put up iconic performances and numbers in those back to back finals. MJ:38.5ppg/7rebs/8ast/2.5stls/1.3blk on 48% Dream:34.3ppg/17rebs/5ast/1.5stls/4.4blks on 64%

The 94 team, if Jordan had stayed would've most definitely been their deepest team. I definitely believe they'd have won in 94 the squad they could've had and if they managed to keep Horace Grant for 95 they would've beaten the Rockets again. Too many ppl keep saying the Bulls had no answer for Dream. Well here's a little secret, nobody else did either. Bulls didn't even have an answer for Brad Dougherty, much less a Patrick Ewing and we handled the Knicks just fine. Hell, I'd say the Knicks and Rockets were built the same and played very similar minus the some of the dirty plays the Knicks were pulling. All in all if Jordan is on the 94 squad and him and Horace were on the 95 squad that's a 5 peat easily.

Lack of motivation from achieving what Bird and Magic couldn't (3-Peat), extreme fatigue from going to 5 straight CFs, 3 of which were NBA finals...AND going up against a centre-orientated team in Houston which the Bulls struggled with throughout the intervening years in the reg. season - leads me to believe that the Houston Rockets would have dethroned the Bulls in 7 games.

physical shape... to a degree... MENTAL SHAPE was the most important...

Bulls might have won 94 or 95 or even both, but I don't see them winning then and still winning 96-98. Jordan needed a break, roster needed a minor refresh, and Pippen needed to learn his place.

I would argue that if Pippen doesnt get that migraine in 1990, they 5peat but fall short in 95 with the absence of Horace. Also think the wouldve make the 99 Finals if they stay on more year but lose to the Spurs in the Finals. MJ wouldve been a legit 8-1 in the Finals. (He doesnt reach Finals in 95?

I'm a big Jordan fan and still dont think any team could beat the Bulls given how complete they were. But that what if is a fantasy: they would not have had the same teams (no Rodman, maybe no Pippen), the injury risk would have been a lot higher, the clash of egos (Pippen's jaleousy) would have come earlier than 1998, and so on. It's not just adding two in the middle, if they were able, it's adding 5 after their three peat. I don't think it was doable, I don't think it's ever going to happen again anyway. A threepeat in itself is a remarkably rare feat in modern NBA, two is insane. More than that is not bound to happen.

Jonny I’m disappointed you didn’t cover the mid 90s Rockets roster more beyond Hakeem and then Clyde Drexler for 1995. I expect other channels and media outlets to gloss over the 90s Rockets as Hakeem and the 11 dwarfs or Hakeem and a bunch of dudes, but you have a great reputation of giving attention to some of the most forgotten role players. I was expecting to see more about the Rockets supporting cast.

Excellent topic as always! I give Chicago 1 out of 2

The only question is whether the Bulls would have been able to secure a replacement rebounder/defender with Horace and Cartwright leaving, if not, I think it probably plays out as in this video because Houston in 95 would basically have done what Orlando did in 95 otherwise.

Jonny, you talk about MJ teaming up with a prime Scottie Pippen in 1994, but I don't think Scottie Pippen would have reached his prime if Jordan were still there.

It would have been fun to watch the passing of the torch to Duncan and kobe if jordan played 2 more years.