@@Brascobadboy that wasn't it, he did the technique wrong. A single is an inside drive then run the pipe (keep their leg trapped between yours so you control posture/distance and tuck the chin to defend chokes). He did a single and finished like it was a double with his head on the outside to drive and exposed the neck.
How can the commentator says that a general critic for Craig Jones is his games is one dimensional and that now is more diverse? In 2017 in EBI he pull a sick armbar against OConaill, in adcc 2017 he pulled a flying triangle against santana, and took Lo’s back and got a RNC with a beautiful rolling backtake. It has surely expanded and change, but it was never 1D.
He’s much better overall now than in 2017. Used to just play z-guard and leg entanglements. Now his game is great all around after training with danaher
Makes you wonder what would have happened if the ref had given Fowler points for any of those takedowns. Maybe he wouldn't have forced a shot in the closing 30 seconds.
To come in wrestling-heavy and still escape all those attacks down to 30 seconds was impressive indeed. Most wrestling focused guys get choked way quicker.
I spent my blue belt days with mason at dethrone, first time I rolled with him he collar dragged me fucking thought I had wings damn near lost my shoulder that day
I played rugby with Mason at Bullard high in Fresno CA back in 2010. His first year he was easily among the best and had the most savage attitude towards the game and training. Love you mason keep doin your thing
I like that ADCC is the wild west for gear requirements and they don't force anything. That being said I think it's possible the darce at 5:30 could have finished if they had been wearing rash guards with the increased friction. But it's also possible Craig wouldn't have been able to slide it in the first place. Rafa Mendes used to always say he liked going shirtless at ADCC so that he could slide his arm chokes into place more easily.
I like both points. I am just thinking the evolution of mersa, sepsis. Infectious skin disease has developed over time. But both of you present valid statements.
A very complete looking Craig Jones. I am amazed that Mason did this well to escape all those submissions. Mason had some nice sweeps from half guard and was good at avoiding leg lock positions.
one of the commentators talks too much, jumps in to fill any gap right away. a few seconds of silence now and then would improve analysis quality instead.
Crawling around on your ass has to be the most undignified tactic in the world of grappling , why anybody teaches that as a legitimate technique ill never understand
They didn't give Craig sweep points. He totally went from top to bottom. It was a bit of a tumble but Craig came out on top. Around the 3:59 mark on the ADCC clock timer. The sequence starts around there. He rolls him, gets rolled then rolls him again and comes up on top. No points. Totally a sweep unless he somehow did not use his legs or something. I saw a sweep all day.
Any time there is a position reversal points should be awarded. If a grappler goes from their back to top position they should get the sweep/reversal points. If they are on bottom and end up on top while in a submission then they should only be awarded the points once they clear the submission attempt. The commentators don’t even know if the ref will award points during the match. If they are confused how will the general public follow along?
Unfortunately ADCC started as a rich man's play thing. There was never any desire to have it be something for the general public or even the grappling community to be able to follow. No days the guy running the events is trying to make the rules a little easier to follow and more clear, but he's said that it's very difficult to get changes through. A few competitors that have done the event many times have a deep understanding of the rules, like Andre Galvao, Cobrinha, and some others. in IBJJF the competitors often know the rules better than the refs, but in ADCC it's the other way around. it's also tricky because the ref on the mat makes no decisions re: scoring. All of that is handled by the guys at the mat-side tables.
Andre true. The Sheik created the event for his own personal entertainment. It was never designed to be seen by the public. The real money to be made by the competitors was the opportunity to train him privately if you impressed him. People always get in a hissy fit for me saying it but BJJ/grappling is now falling into to the same pit of despair that we said judo was in. And that is 100% okay. It is fine for it to become a sport as long as we view or correctly as a sport and not a self-defense system.
Bad Wolf MMA good points. I’m with you. I am fine with separating the sport from the self defense applications. I do try to keep real combat in mind though when rolling. I like Chris Haueter’s take on it. “Think the street. Train the sport. Practice the art.” Something like that. Lastly I’d say I do think adcc is probably the best ruleset with some real fighting practicality (along with CJJ) due to the increased focused on wrestling, as well as it being such an open ruleset for allowing slams and all submissions (besides the full Nelson weirdly enough).
Andre you have a very good outlook. I stress the same thing with my students. The sport USED to be a way to get some street application into our training. Not so much anymore. But, that’s cool. Things change. We just have to be honest about the direction things have gone. A lot of sport focused practitioners are a little delusional. ADCC format tries to be a decent meeting ground to allow a variety of grappling arts to cross compete.
This was a really good match. Mason almost scored but Craig stayed on the neck and got up, but there was a takedown I believe mason definitely should’ve got credit for, which would’ve made him less desperate to shoot late. Also the ending was weird with them going close to OB and the ref touching masons back. Not the greatest reffing imo. But great match and awesome performance from both.
I'll give the ref a pass because at ADCC the ref doesn't score any points. The scorer's table put their heads together and score points during the match. And anything that happened before 6:12 cannot be scored due to the no-points period, and any takedown points from Mason after that point have to pin Craig on his back for 3 seconds. Also, sweep and reversal points do not count if the person has a submission hold. It's incredibly difficult to score takedowns at ADCC and the infamous Pena vs Rodolfo match has about a dozen takedowns that don't score but would score in any other ruleset.
I don’t understand adcc scoring.. Also, the fact that competitors frequently end up right on the mats of another match or smashing into judges tables and whatnot is ridiculous. This is supposed to be the pinnacle event of the sport. Get them some proper space
There's no points for the first half of the match. That might be part of the confusion. Also you do not get points scored on you if you're on top and end up on bottom (either on purpose or getting swept) if you have a submission hold locked. The rules are very weird though. Sweeps and takedowns that land you past the guard get 4 points instead of 2. Those are the only things that give you 4 points. The back position for example gets 3 points instead of 4.
rian dunneleavy that too. It was started in 1998 by the Sheikh and Renzo Gracie as a mixed styles submission grappling tournament. They wanted rules that would help give all styles a shot. That’s why there’s funky rules like 4 points for a throw or takedown that lands you past the guard. They did that to help wrestlers and Judoka
BigB00tySlayer totally understandable. Adcc is definitely confusing. Even to me and I’ve been watching them for 15 years. There’s also not much transparency. That doesn’t help. And it’s an infrequent event so there’s not a lot of practice events or hobbyist events to learn the rules better. A lot of the top guys and girls only get one shot.
Lol shut up. It is fighting under a certain set of rules and therefore they are sometimes called fighters. Just because there is no striking involved doesnt mean it isnt real combat. That like saying boxing isnt real fighting since there is no kicking involved.
@@TJ-vl1ff I wouldn't call boxers fighter either, but a least boxers know they'll get hurt in every single bout, but they still step in to the ring. Sure sounds like a fighter to me. Jiu-jitsu players know they can tap-out at any point before any pain/damage sets in. That's not exactly what anyone would call a fighter; quite the contrary, that's a quitter by the very definition of the word. LoL. Let's be honest here: if jiu-jitsu competitions would be expected to get hurt in every single match like they do in boxing/muay thai/MMA matches, 99% of jiu-jitsu practitioners would quit the next day.
Casual MMA Fan he doesn’t he have to take the shot that lead up to guillotine if points were awarded. Craig scored the guillotine off of Fowler’s aggression. He didn’t score it off of his own set-up
Casual MMA Fan Craig Jones is very popular. Ppl go all out of their way to build cases for him. If you cannot keep your opponent in the position you want them you do not deserve the position. If Craig could not keep him from scrambling away then the guard was not a controlling position. If Craig was taken down and scrambled to his feet nobody and I mean nobody would be saying Craig was scrambling around around avoiding the ground. They would be cheering him for getting off his back. It’s not your opponent’s job to do what you want them to do or how you want them to do it. The problem with guard first grapplers is they need their opponent to press the pass. If their opponent doesn’t press the pass then the guard lovers say “grappler X just stalled...”
In these ring outs to reset in the center is waste. Karate combat has a great “ring” thats pit with 45 degree slanted walls. Which allows the action to continue. Would be nice to see jujuitsu tournies like these invest in pit.
@@adrianarroyo937 oh i was looking at right when you stamped it not before. But the commentators touched on it possibly being points and I think it was definitely arguable. From personal experience, in any match especially close ones, the ref will usually wait for solidification of control before awarding points. This prevents any high level matches being lost on momentary lapses. So although not necessarily fully by the rule book, ensures a more fluid match. Again just my perspective.
@@michaelmay9236 I chose that time stamp because before I think anybody could argue it was still scramble, and therefore no points were awarded. But since that moment, Craig ends up with his back on the floor for 10 seconds! I was thinking it may have to do with some loop on the rules, maybe? I read the rules a while back and can't remember anything that explain this. But anyway, thanks for the insight! 🙂🙏🏻
3 second turtle zeroes all point attemps. And they count all positions where either of shoulders are of the mat as a turtle. In ADCC if someone passes your guard and then you turtle and give up side control its zero points.
@@juicyjmma It doesn't change the whole match. Not only does he not deserve any points as we've already broken down the video and I've shown why he didnt' get points in another thread, but more importantly, he chose to risk it for that takedown when he could have just waited. He was not forced by a lack of points to act then. He had the option of overtime. He lost the match because he CHOSE to do something he didn't have to do. He could have waited for overtime. He didn't deserve any points anywhere, and he didn't get them, then he made a mistake in calculation thinking he could steal the match right before the time was up. Had he waited, things might have gone his way in overtime. HE botched the match, not judges.
These BJJ guys need to work on their wrestling. I remember Gordon Ryan tapped Keenan with a guillotine off a single leg and now this. It's such a necessary adjustment to keep the head safe when doing a take down. There's a reason why Khabib has never gotten trapped in a guillotine despite performing so many takedowns.
"Fuck Caig Jones" (according to him) Mason beat him twice..after this. Nobody cares about THOSE matches. Like musical classics, THIS match remains the opus one
I'm naive, never done bjj, can you sqeeze with your knees into people's ribs or mid section, that would be excruciating. I feel like it's obvious when in guard.
Great Match! This is how guys no gi BJJ and submission grappling matches and practices are supposed to be, shirtless. A legit guys no gi BJJ and submission grappling matches are done shirtless. This video makes me want to learn no gi BJJ. Rash guards look ridiculous on guys . Also rash guards make guys look weak. Submission grappling and no gi bjj isn't supposed to be cozy. Rash guards and shirts are like sponges and hold the sweat it. Rash guards are not more sanitary than grappling shirtless. Grappling shirtless is more sanitary than grappling in rash guards. All legit Wrestling ,Submission grappling and no gi bjj competitions are done shirtless to show that you're not cheating and your opponent can hurt you by grabbing your clothes. If guys are going to submission grapple and no gi bjj in rash guards then they should treat the rash guards like a gi.
hey, look. if your shorts are so long that you have to pull them up 30 times while you are in the middle of a world class match, you may want to get some shorter shorts, go full Dan Severn or something, there is a reason grapplers wear those.
Having only superficial knowledge of wrestling I was wondering this myself before. After watching a couple matches from recent ADCC´s in particular, many grapplers go for the outside head position in order to switch to the bodylock and hunting the back. I rarely see standard singles being finished, often times it´s really just to set up the (rear) bodylock and going into takedowns from there. I don´t think it´s an actual ´mistake´, especially when it´s such high level grapplers, often with a dedicated wrestling background aswell. If someone knows more about that, I would love to hear someone explain it properly:)
Looked to me like he shot with his head on the inside and switched as he was trying to ‘run the pipe’ but failed and switched into a double leg attempt
Ilya Il explain for y’all. Don’t worry I’m black belt who’s beaten Felipe Pena and competed at the highest levels. No I’m not special, just trying to show I come from a place with some knowledge. I respect all others opinions and am open minded to change of my own opinion. So I understand it a little bit. ILya is right as the wresting is running the pipe and helps him apply more chest pressure and change the able but it exposes your neck. He’s firstly a wrestler so when he was tired he went to his natural tech from wrestling without modifying. Hard to keep your tech composure when your exhausted. Mason did great. Also if he did get points people think he deserved you can say well Craig got the submission because mason probably wouldn’t be shooting if he was up points. Everything makes a difference. Happy to see so many people living and loving the sport.
Yes, being able to play it smart within the given ruleset definitely is an aspirable attribute. Even without points controlling the fight is more important than hail mary submission attempts. Not to say I didn't wish every fight could end with submission.
Going for the submission 100% of the time is not always a good strategy. This is especially true in MMA or Self-Defense situations. If you give up good position to attack submission and the submission fails, you're in deep trouble. Being able to maintain good position while attacking submissions is a notable skill amongst the best fighters of all disciplines.
