Crown Vic wing off - how many bolts?? Is there more rust?? 

As a welder this job wouldn't bother me much (other that the fact that it was hidden and badly bodged - really annoying when people do that) but if you just work on one small section at a time you will get through it. It is a lot of work, but worth doing. At the end of it you will have a solid car and documented proof of the work being done should you ever sell it. Be sure to apply seam sealer to take care of pinholes. If replacement panels are unavailable you should be able to fabricate them if you take your time. I would advise you to get a box of 12mm closed grommets/bungs & matching hole saw and place access holes in several places so that you can add bar and chain oil or wax oil every six months. You will be able to place those where they cannot easily be seen. Good luck. 👍

I'm going to be perhaps a bit blunt, but in order to make this car solid and properly roadworthy again, you need to really, really, really like it. As in, you need enthusiasm for this car above and beyond what would be normal or considered sane. And if you fall into that category, then I say go for it! If you don't, then cut your losses here and now.

I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure that a Ford Crown Vic repair manual would read something a bit like this; Fender Removal: Undo 45,000 bolts, discover it's still attached by another few hundred thousand bolts, then sit in a quiet corner and have a nervous breakdown.

My guess about the crazy mixture of metric and imperial fasteners is this: the Panther platform was basically designed back in the 1970s and was in production for so long (33 years) during the period when metric fasteners came into more common use in American cars. So, each time they made a revision or facelift to the car, they just went with metric. Meaning, all of the untouched places remained imperial.

At $75 dollars each someone in the USA could cut off the sections you need and send them over in a moderate size box for Lot less money. Check the upper suspension arm mounts on the chassis. The rear one looks to be rather rusty. Surprisingly it doesn't look very heavy duty either.

Now the expanding foam makes sense… “ain’t got time to undo all that nonsense, you want it back or you want it back” I should the imagine the conversation went

New Crown Vic content... It may be scary, but I'll watch anyway. She still is an amazing car.

This is "built like a tank" in all the wrong ways 🤣 I really admire your fighting spirit. I had an old Mercedes C-class with lots of rust in similar places. Every time I did any work to that car, I found more rust. Every time I fixed the rust, I found some other rust. I ended up selling the car for parts in 2020. I just couldn't take all the "fun" little surprises anymore. I really hope you don't give up on this car. These are truly rare cars in Europe. I think I've only seen Crown Vic's a couple of times here in Norway.

Matt, I hope you manage to somehow sort this out. Utterly heartbreaking to see the Crown Vic in this state.

That 1996 Chevrolet Caprice seems pretty tempting at this point.

There is a large following for American cars in Germany and Scandinavia. Might be worth a look there for some wings. If not then American airbases - iirc there are American car breakers near mildenhal. Good luck

Sir, you are a Star. I would have left the wing on, repaired the bottom bit and fitted new sills, Jobs a good 'un!

Utterly devastating finding that your dream classic turns out to be a bit of a rusty lemon. However, it isn't dead and it's all repairable... eventually... Yes it's good content but at the same time, you'd rather be driving it rather than disassembling. Glad to see you're still smiling. Keep up the great work Matt :)

Oh dear, now holes in the super strength frame chassis too. Not looking good and I wonder what else is hidden from view currently?

I would definitely check out the fabrication route Matt , sure it would be hugely cheaper than ordering from USA parts and save on respraying the whole wings / fenders especially as the repair is at the bottom of them 🤔.

Good to see progress - as Churchill said “when in hell, keep going”. If anyone can do it, you can.

It is bad no denying but it's not massively bad. You're nearly on 90k subscribers and this content will no doubt boost you up. Keep it going!! Your skills and knowledge will improve no end.

Well, I hope you're filming every single nut and bolt that comes off. You'll it again when it comes to putting it back together! That's a mind-bending arrangement of brackets and fixings.

How you keep smiling, is a credit to you, it’s not as if it only cost you a few hundred pounds to buy it . I think your mechanic friend is amazed how rotten and bodged it is Well it keeps us viewers entertained 😊

It's great to see you a bit more upbeat, Mat. Good luck finding the parts, matey.

Good to see you more upbeat with the condition of the crown Vic, if it was me I would have been upset. Good to see Chris again as well assisting you.

We had a similar mix of imperial & metric fasteners in our 1978-1988 Holden Commodores here in Australia. Due to the body’s German origins, all body and suspension bolts were metric. Because Holden used drivelines dating from the 60s, the mechanicals were mostly imperial. The exception to this was the Nissan sourced engine/trans in the ‘86-88, but the V8 was still imperial. Some accessories were also metric - like the alternator and A/C compressor. Oh, the power steering pump changed from imperial to metric during the run too - many traps for people unaware….. But working on them as much as I did in the 80s & 90s, it just became second nature to pick the right tool. If the 13mm was too loose, grab the half inch. If the 3/8 just won’t fit, then it’s a 10mm. Same again at 5/8 and 16mm. At least you only had to carry a 14mm and not a 9/16, as they are so close in size. All of this came flooding back when I restored a 1987 V8 model in 2010.

In the late 1970s American car manufacturers started mixing metric and SAE (imperial) fasteners within the same vehicle. Actually in the mid 70s there was a huge push in the elementary school systems to educate kids on the metric system. Being interested in math I was intrigued by it and memorized every unit of metric measurement. In the 80s the mix of fasteners became much more heavily weighted towards metric. Today some SAE remains but it is minimal.

When I removed the front damaged outer wing on my Mercedes W123 . I was congratulating the manufacturers on the ease of removing all the bolts. I then changed my mind. The sealant between all contact places was as good a a weld. Took me a whole day with a heat gun and perseverance to eventually separate from the inner wing . 😅

I would of thought it would be easier to repair the wings, specially as they are genuine wings. good luck with the work

All is not lost yet. Great job, Chris!

Being honest you need to sell on the other cars (Volvo, Tourer, Rover 200 and 75) and free up the space before going further with this project.

What a palaver to get a single wing off! Good that you have help on this project Matt - surely it helps to keep spirits up!

Speak with Ron at STS imports he's brilliant for bringing over larger parts from the USA. All you will need to do is have the wings shipped to his warehouse in Georgia and he will bring them over in one of his containers.

After spending half a day struggling to replace the anti-roll bars on my MGB it was consoling to minimise my troubles by watching what you have to deal with Matt.

I'm exhausted just watching this!

I've got a box of matches

There's a great on-screen dynamic between you and Kris, really fun. I'm looking forward to the ongoing improvements.

I think the cause of your fender frustration is the way these cars are assembled at the factory. All the bodywork forward of the windshield bolts to the frame and bodyshell as a unit. If you get stuck finding any bits, I would be glad to pick the local yards for you. Sadly, I'm also in Ohio....

Glad you are still smiling Matt. It makes a big difference to get some help from a mate, thanks Kris. Hope you can locate some repair panels as the top of the wing is all solid. It’s creating content. Mmmmm.

I saw a rusty Town Car this week and it had some yellow foam in the fender as well. I will put a video up of it. Thanks for sharing.

What a faff! I am sorry that a car that you were so very delighted to buy, to import from America, has turned out to be what I would consider a nightmare. I have to say that Kris Smith seems to be a very good mechanic.

I love the Beeeeep I may be 50 but I still giggle like a 10 year old whenever I hear that sounds. 😂😂great vid

Chris is a Legend and extremely patient. This is a labour of love and they always take a little longer using lovingly sourced parts, welding with skill and pride and bolting carefully back together with sweet little pixie spanners and a sprinkling of Fairy Dust. BUILT FORD TOUGH.

Looks like this Crown Victoria feels like at home in UK with typical UK corrosion, the rust is not as bad as my 1968 Cutlass and you might get away with spot repair without repainting the entire car. The problem is some section are so rotted, you have no reference to fabricate a replacement, Google have plenty of images of body panels for reference.

Wow this is one very well built car! It is sad to see it so bad but it’s also in good hands buddy you will sort this one. Hopefully the wings are repairable.

The Crown Vic was built in Canada. Canada use the metric system which is probably why there is a lot of metric content in your US Ford. A good example of Ford's wayward attitude to the measurement system was the Transit. UK built Transits were Imperial while German built Transits were Metric.

As i said before, this car was always going to be a keeper and at least, by being forced to take it apart, you will have peace of mind that you're able to check all the main structure and then know it's all been properly repaired. You'd have probably had to do this in the future anyway as the car aged and you'd enjoyed it. It's just happened a tad sooner than expected

Just think that when it's all fixed, it will be better than new, and should last you out - and you will have the satisfaction of knowing that it will have been fixed properly

As me Scottish Grannie would say 'Your Daft for Buying on East Coast' Crown Victoria, all of them have severe rust :) I only buy western states cars! And that Fender, not a 'Wing' that takes me about 30 minutes to replace, but I'm a 64 year old Ford Guy! Got a good metal fab Guy?? He can make patch panels for all of the Rusty Bits your finding! My 2004 Crown Vick LX is completely rust free, as well as my 1972 Galaxie500 2 door :) Live in the Desert Southwest! Best of Luck on this Vick, Mate!

Alas, there's always more rust. Best of luck fixing it.

It is probably just easier to take the front fenders to a body shop and have them fab up a patch panel for them rather then pay a crap ton for USA shipped fenders. Though these cars were made in Canada so perhaps it is cheaper to get them from Canada because there is some kind of commonwealth shipping thing? It is not really a bodge job and you will probably find this thing with most Crown Vics as most were sold as fleet cars (state, local and federal motor pools), police and fire cars, Taxi and to rental car agencies. Most US car buyers did not have interest in them by 2000 and ether bought the Grand Marquis or the Lincoln Town Car if they wanted a big Ford car. With the exception of the rental cars, most of these cars were used hard and put back together cheap and quick. The object was to get them back into service quickly and not prettily. Most police cars were worked hard and then sold where the taxi companies snapped them up and they were used hard for even more years. With the exception of diehards, most folks looking at this type of car bought a Grand Marquis which would have been in better shape as they were owned by older folks and were taken care of. Other things to note, all US fords that have those beauty covers on the sills, get rusty there because Ford failed to drill holes in the underside of the plastic cover to let the water drain out. (Make sure before you put holes in the underside of those plastic covers before you install them). All US Fords seem to rust at the dog leg (the front part of the rear wheel wells). This is because gravel and other crap seem to get whipped up there due to the wheels and that basically "sands down" the paint. Also these cars were tools so that they were worked hard and will never be perfect. For the battery tray bracket and those other roundish supports, just sand them down and remove the rust and paint them black. Good luck

Also looking online the wings support the slam panel as you can take the whole nose comes off basically, so the slam panel dropping shouldn't be worrying

This is awesome to watch but Utterly heartbreaking at the same time

My Grand Marquis is a Floridia car and I'm finding rust on it now. If you fancy seeing the precursor to your Crown Vic, I have an 88 LTD Station Wagon thats only just hit 100K miles but the front brakes have seized up.

The wings wont cost that much in shipping.Ron at STS Imports brought all my body panels over.He runs containers from California. Tell him I sent you 👍

I dont envy you trying to deal with a rotten frame, rotten sills, and probably rotten everything. Once its rusted, you just chase it forever. Good work by Chris though

Can't imagine why anyone would buy a crown Vic but I guess he's stuck with it.

These cars were made at the St Thomas, Ontario, Canada factory and that is why there are metric bolts etc. And they all rust. It's a Ford after all.

counterintuitively it turns out the body of a body on frame car has to be built 10x as strong and complex as the body on a monocoque chassis

One more thought, try and find a ford parts recycling yard in Arizona USA, as that area is desert and you may find rust free panels that can be cut to patch size and therefore reduce shipping costs

I am sure you know you have to strip the interior plastics and peel back the carpet and remove the drivers side seatbelt Reel if it occupies the hole in the lower pillar so you can check for flammables and see in for Fire , and have a fire spotter armed with at least a washing up liquid bottle with water in and a fire extinguisher for worst case . you remember the nineties ford's with the piece of foam under the seat belt reel inside the sill/ post section , burned many a place down they did.

Fords in the 1980’s in North America were notorious for rust. The company built an ineffective improvement called the Ford Duraguard system. Their cars remained rot boxes. Overall, I suspect you will have to find someone to fabricate repair panels. Do not bin it as it will be will be needed to pattern the patch panels.

I haven't even started this video yet and I'm dreading it.

I recently took the wings of a BMW E39, really easy to do, no faffing with the bumper. Feel your pain.

Your fun with ordering parts from the States reminds me of every time I go to a vendor in the UK for parts for my Stag, 2500S or Mini. I can chuck a couple of hundred quid's' worth of parts into the cart and depending their size or weight (or some other random algorithmic factor) the shipping can be as much as (or twice / three times as much) as the parts I ordered. It gets less of a percentage the more I order, which makes me wonder about the algorithmic factor, but its still horrific. Ordering parts from someone here in New Zealand is just as bad as they have to pay the same huge freight cost plus import duties and although they can write some off as tax breaks, they still have to make a profit, so it ends up being cheaper to order direct from the UK.....which is complete madness. However, the freight companies sort of have us over a barrel in this case, because you wouldn't order it if you didn't need it, so they can charge what they want. This figure has doubled since the beginning of 2020 as well.... You reckon you could get the front wings into the passenger's side and back seat area if the passenger's front seat was laid back flat-ish? That might be a way of getting them in country with someone else's import.....just a thought :) All the best

You should re name this episode: Crown Vic 'Defective Special '

Despite all, I honestly think it is worth sorting the Vic. You will do it Matt!

Matt, I hate to say it but you've been well and truly screwed! It's really sad that this happens. Good luck.

Good luck with it. It's going to be worth it

The joys of a body on frame car. Lots additional body strengthening. I am surprised how hard it is to take body panels off as the crown vic was a favourite of taxis and cops. They needed quick repairs. Call them fenders not wings and maybe they will cooperate.

It’s your CrownVic Matt! Don’t give up on her, you’re all she’s got and what life is left in her it’s with you. If not, her days are over my friend🛞💨💨🏁

So sorry you have to deal with someone's bodge job hope you can get the parts to get this beast of a machine back to its former glory

Wow Matt. How complicated just to get one wing off. Crazy, hope you can get the parts sorted out.

fascinating stuff. body on frame, its a truck lol. and that wing is quite different to European stock because it has a whole load of structure built in instead of being a simple trim panel. back in the early 80s when I was mechanicing for a living and we were in that transition from imperial to metric, I used to keep my metric and imperial sockets and spanners mixed together in size order, so 3/8" was next to 10mm, 7/16" with 11mm, 1/2" with 13mm and so on. it had a number of advantages over separation.

I'm glad you're sorting it, I saw this car last year at the NEC

It was a very well concealed bodge, but it looks like caught it in time. Welding torch ahoy!

Shocking how complicated it is to remove a wing. I like my 1996 Volvo 940. Hope you get a good deal on some wings or find repair panels.

Your best trying banger racers for the wings. Lincoln limos would be a good source.

I've just read the feature on your car In Classic American magazine. So nice to have found out the history of the car. I'm surprised there was no mention of your channel. That wing did look hard work, I think the previous body shape are a bit easier looking at my 1988 Lincoln Town Car, not that it's much help! I've come to the conclusion that usually, older is better.

Wow Matt the work involved in removing that wing. A great video and explanation by you both I hope you can find a solution for the wings cannot believe that shipping price Well done on locating the sills Looking forward to seeing it come back to life! Love the crown vic always been one of my favourite cars from trips to the USA

This is how big long restorations start…. Ask me how I know?!

Criminal what has been done to the crown vic! A real bodge job! Hopefully you can get her good again!

Here in the USA, we don't call nuts and bolts Imperial, but rather SAE (for the Society of Automotive Engineers), named for the standards body that governs the standard. Similar to Whitworth in the UK...

I would make my own repair panels for the wings, thats what i did on my mx5 project

It's a totally unexpected situation with what I consider to be his best asset - It's fantastic content and he's going to get it done!

You should stop now, get the grinder out and establish the full extent of the problems. At least then if ordering parts from USA you could combine shipping and reduce the cost. Fabricating sections for repair looks favourite but whatever you do it's going to be time consuming. Get that thing over to your shed, it will at least give storage for stripped parts. 😅

I always wanted to buy an american v8 car, You have changed my thinking on that.

Great job Chris !

Just a quick fix and then a re-test then. Some hope.

11mm is 7/16" AF. There is some commonality between imperial and metric. Another near identical one is 8mm and 5/16th AF

See if you can find a front or top damaged fender that has a good bottom part then cut off the bad section on your fender and graft on the good section from the damaged fender. I had to do this on my 69 Mustang Mach 1 when I was restoring it 20 year's ago and was struggling to find a pair of decent fenders....I'm UK btw. I feel your pain but keep at it.

If i had to bet who'd done that bodging, it'd be the police themselves. As you say, end of life, tart it up to keep it presentable before punting it off for a bit extra at auction. That level of bodge is way, way too involved for a dealer. Maybe the sill, but those wings?, Crown Vic parts aren't exactly rare in the US, they'd just slap on another pair and dust them over badly, not waste all that time wobbing it up and sanding, that's 100% been done 'on the clock' trying to eek some more time out of the fleet with no new parts, IMO.

i hope this doesnt end up like the w123 (dont mean to sound negative but one welding project is enough in my experience)

If just the bottom of wings, find breakers in usa, get the to grinder of the bottom bits and box up. The weld on.

Repair what you have. The paint looks good and most all of it will match perfectly. And as someone else said it is on the bottom so not very noticeable.

I don't envy you, chaps! But good to see you getting stuck in!

matt armstrong, another uk youtuber, bought a car over in the usa, but could not get parts for it over there, he traveled back to the uk, bought the parts, packed them in suit cases and flew back to america with them. maybe if ya contact him and he is still back and forth to the uk, he might able to fit a cut wing section in a suit case, or what ever small parts you might need, i know the car he has over thee is not finnished yet, worth a try.

With the cost of the wing you might as well try making the repair panels (or get a professional to) I'd copy the profile you need off another car with one of those panel form things. I also suggest you look on frost tools and buy a stretcher / shrinker so you can get nice curves and a joddler. If you get a hole punch (often combined with the joddler) then open the holes out to 6mm as it make the plug welding easier. But that will be an easy panel to make and it's not in an area that will notice and the rest of the wing looks good. With regard to the sill you will need to cut the outer part off to get access to that inner panel, unless you intend on lifting the body up and welding along the side hidden by the frame. I don't get the crown Vic thing, I love rover p6 and sd1, but I drove a Vic across California and let's just say I was underwhelmed.

On a Wing and a Prayer!

As for the vehicle being straight, there's a good chance that it's been collision damaged, due to its former life as a police car. One of the reasons that police departments and taxi companies on this side of the pond loved these cars was the relative ease of collision repairs compared to more modern cars...

$1000 to ship...Jeez! Surely a few wings can be luggaged aboard a plane...More wings the better! Good to see you walking on American Soil...(debris from said wings) The song 'Right said Fred' came to mind watching this.....Wot a palarva!

I'm a Yank and I have NEVER seen a slew of underbonnet crap attached to an INNER BLINKING PLASTIC FENDER LINER. Fords, man. "And we always leave a lot of rust and bondo for the next man." [parodying the exact opposite of the truly honest pros Rob and Chris of Salvage Repair UK]

Great vid - those wings would repair with some metal fabrication. Good luck

I had a similar car to this during my youth, the floor was rotten and I bought it on credit. The repair was going to cost more than the cars worth so one night I parked it at the local lovers lane spot and set it on fire. I got my money off the insurance and paid the loan off. Its just so much less bother than buying spare parts and welding etc.