As an American living in Europe for the last 34 years, the concept of cultural complexes seems very obvious to me! I had to recognize my own when I moved here (France). I often refer to the "collective shadow" in speech and writing, because I find this very deep collective river very interesting. I think we share similar archetypes, but the values we apply to them can differ vastly. His example of the "childless cat lady" struck a note in me. This idea doesn't have the negative connotations here that it has in the US. Though, I perceive an association with the feminine. A French man that says he likes cats makes people think, "He likes women. He appreciates the feminine nature." (a positive thing here). Because they value women with "character"- the ideal woman has a self-possession and independence, and is exigent! The woman that sometimes wants a cuddle, and sometimes doesn't, and if she doesn't, she may just slap your face to let you know it. The French LOVE this idea. This is a goddess, and feminine power is valued. Whereas I found that even deep within myself, I had negative connotations with this nature. That is "a bitch". It is truly fascinating to regard the same "cat goddess" archetype with a totally different emotional association. I teach English here now, and this subject, of our deeper associations and cultural complexes, is my most favorite subject to explore with my advanced classes. It becomes a very intense self exploration!
Watching people from both sides arguing, debating with the facts and frames supplied by their preferred political party is like watching children ‘fighting’ each other’s action figures to see who is the ultimate hero. Little are they aware that the toys and stories they choose are owned by corporations, and very little by them, who simply pick up the toys for the battles of Ideologies.
Love that analogy of the psychic kidney filtering our world view. An organ of discernment and necessity to simply do the daily in an undercurrent sort of autonomic way. Congratulations on the book! Looking forward to the release 🎉
Thank you for bringing this topic to our ears at this time. And for bringing to the forefront, the historical suppression of women, who lived on the edges of society, demonized...how dare they have thoughts of their own in the patriarchy!...personally I felt rage around the "childless catlady" remark, ancestral trauma of "witches" being murdered...
59:50 ff. - Anyone who thinks the 1950's weren't about "collaboration" should look at William Whyte's The Organization Man (1956) and David Riesman's The Lonely Crowd (1950). Strangely, both these books put the Golden Age Of Individualism a half century or more prior to themselves. It seems individualism always had its day 50 years in the past, no matter where on the calendar one finds oneself, and is outdated "now"... 🤔
Intriguing, expanded my thinking and even helped some in these unsettling days, Thank you. It’s odd too that all that fighting goes on our screens while exchanges amongst people in my town are basically peaceful. This conversation Makes me wonder what you all think of the collective developmental model spiral dynamics.
Love this!! I am a republican in a red state and I see Trump in a way nobody around me acknowledges. I feel alone and I've had to question myself.. Maybe I'm the one falling into propaganda? I have had to self reflection several times. I only watch stuff live so I don't just see sound bites ext... I still feel that Trump is dangerous and that my family and friends are in a cult. They won't even look at facts or anything that is not in Trumps favor. It's just odd and I don't understand. I think they know exactly what Trump is and deep down inside they are just like him. It's like we have 2 different realities or one of the same and these people enjoy the mean, lying, hatefulness Trump represents.
The piece about cultural complexes requiring selective focus and facts is central. The way that mild hypnosis works on mass populations is deeply concerning, and it does seem politics makes people more lowlife as people these days. The fact that the least polarized are least likely to participate in the process is concerning too. I know many lifelong voters who can't stomach participating in the vote anymore, and their approach looks to be Jung's antidote to cultural complexes. Very dysfunctional system now. The nonparticipants are the most evolved, evolved beyond this governmental structure and autonomous.
I really owe a great deal to This Jungian Life. I listen to every episode and discovered a lot of new authors via them. So I am very grateful to Joseph, Debb and Lisa. It was all the more disappointing that in this episode on cultural complexes they were almost completely blind to the influences of cultural complexes in the liberal 'camp'. All the examples were supposed to prove how much conservatives were in the grip of these complexes compared to the 'sane' liberal point of view, in my opinion often as or even more delusional, certainly in its support of woke madness and denial of some basic facts. The analysis was interesting but the concept of cultural complexes can also be misused to turn a blind eye to the rational aspects in certain points of view. For example: not every rational critiscism of uncontrolled immigration can be neutralised by an argument like 'fear of the other' or some other complex. The catladies were completely taken out of context although the line of thought was interesting and absolutely to the point. The real issue here is: why does a culture turn against having children? No word about that. But I loved the courage and the light they shed on this highly destructive regression to a paranoid schizoid position on a collective level. I think the only thing the individual can do is protect himself or herself.
What a fantastic conversation! I just bought Tom's edited collection on Cultural complexes in Latin America. I wonder if the notion of progress could also be traced back to European medieval trauma: black plague, famine etc. Any thoughts?
This is so distorted when talking about 9/11, that it is abundantly clear his cultural complexes are at work.😂 “Go shop” was not geo bush first words to the people after the attack. And that larger “don’t stop your life” response to terrorists that wanted to destroy our way of life was Huge, courageous and appropriate for the situation. It’s a fascinating topic to chew on..
I read your comment, Juliana. I think you make a valid point that the "go shopping" comment by Bush should be placed in a larger context. For those of us who think consumerism is a, if not the main driving force in the American psyche, there was a downside to that comment--as consumerism can be seen as our most basic cultural complex as it seems to determine in many situations our sense of who we are. So, for those of us who objected to "go shop" it was about defining Americans as shoppers--which we are. Believe it or not, the economic myth was not always the dominant American myth.....
