Very cool trick. It's really the Oxy doing the cutting through steel. I learnt wekding from an old-timer who welded aluminium- sorry alUMinum for a coachbuilder, he also swore by oxy-acetylene fir stainless steel too. Back in the day before industrial gas bottles, you used to maje your own acetylene (look up tractorman44) dropping lime carbide into water that self pressurised. The reaction is CaC2 +H2O= C2H2 (acetylene) + Ca(OH). They used to go through tonnes of lime on the shipyards in Belfast and the Clyde because so much cheaper than anything else. Also they made shtloads of hydrogen from old WW2 barrage balloon units which many of the men were familiar with called Silicol. It was 90% Silicon reacting with NaOh (caustic soda) with 3.5% iron and 5.5% Aluminum creating 99% H and H20 as steam (taken out by a scrubber) up to 2000cu feet an hour. And they say oxyhydrogen is new! Lol we'll all be back to horse and carts to be green.
I've used both for many years. LP is popular for scrapping not just due to cost but because it's safer to handle and you don't need to let an LP cylinder that was transported horizontally settle before using it. Quality US-made acetylene regulator (Victor, Smith etc) soft parts are compatible with multiple fuel gases (if in doubt contact regulator maker tech support) but LP can be run at MUCH higher pressures than acetylene for making heavy cuts so I have regulators for both (heavier spring and higher psi output pressure gauge is the difference, I rebuild my own regs using factory manuals). Rosebud tips ain't cheap new so since I had several Victors from a bulk auction buy I added a short extension cut from a Tweco MIG nozzle and TIGed to the acetylene rosebud. Works find as a flameholder same as common recessed LP tips. Oxy-LP for preheat works a treat because you can exceed acetylene withdrawal rates from small tanks. CGA-510 threads mean ya can use larger LP tanks without the BBQ flow restrictor.
Used both for 30+ years, Acetylene is hotter and cleaner, Propane is OK for farm work, but it is so oily, that it will affect any welding afterwards. Neither is ideal to weld after, but codes ban propane. be safe.
@@ericlotze7724 no it's simply doesn't contain the BTUs we used to have to use propane for soldering and it was the most horrible experience there was man oxygen or not it barely melt solder
In Thailand I don’t think I ever say acetylene used, and there are welding shops on every corner. It was always propane for cutting/welding. Propane is used for everything there.
There is a reason that accetylene is easier to cut with, but it doesn't have anything to do with the oxidation process. For the oxidation process: Heating the metal to bright orange - first the metal is heated by combining a hydrocarbon with oxygen to get water and a lot of heat: 2C 2 H 2 (g) + 5O 2 (g) → 4CO 2 (g) + 2H 2 O(g)+heat energy. We are "burning" accetylene or propane (accetylene equation only is above), or we are "oxidizing" accetylene (propane) - same thing. We get the heat we want from this to be able to heat the metal to "kindling" temperature. When things are hot enough (about 1600°F) where the ferrous (iron) electrons in the molecules are orbiting around a larger electron shell which makes them available to any oxygen in the vicinity (as evidenced by little sparks coming off the orange metal - that is iron already combining with oxygen), we don't need the fuel anymore for heat - we have enough heat to sustain an oxygen-iron reaction on its own (that is, an exothermic reaction). This is when we blast it with pure (or almost pure) oxygen: Fe + O --- FeO + Heat (63,800 cal) First Reaction 3Fe + 2O2 --- Fe3O4 + Heat (267,800 cal) Second Reaction 2Fe + 3/2 O2 --- Fe2O3 + Heat (196,800 cal) Third Reaction For this discussion and the extra horse-flogging, all that doesn't need to be figured out. The only thing that should be noted is that each one of these reactions has heat as a result (byproduct) along with rusted (oxidized) metal. The metal actually "burns" (oxidizes). Same theme going on there. Same "burning is really oxidizing" theme. The only reason people use the term "cuttin' torch" is because it looks like that is what it does but that is only because of the speed of gas coming out of the torch that pushes the molten rust (sparks) and molten unoxidized iron (peanut butter-looking stuff) out of the way as you know. It just looks like it is cutting. Only a small bit of the iron is being oxidized, but the reaction is so prolific in producing heat that it melts the iron sitting right under it. Hell, one can make a cutting torch out of an unlit cutting tip. Try heating the metal up with a large regular tip and then immediately switch to an unlit cutting torch and start blowing on it with the O2. (Switchover has to be SUPER fast - can only be done with two people pulling this off.) Accetylene valve completely off, both O2 valves and regulator set as you regularly would for normal cutting operation. You'll see that the unlit cutting tip will "cut" the metal just fine. Just don't stop... If you want to really impress your friends, use a really large welding tip, get the iron almost white hot, and then turn the oxygen up and start cutting with it. The flame will blow out, but you will still be able to "cut". This will be hard to do but is entirely possible. (Make sure your O2 regulator is set pretty high for this. For safety, turn the fuel off - you have to be fast enough.) To be clear, the cutting torch maintains a flame that actually corrects the mistake of not having the O2 stream perfectly on the work at all times. It makes "cutting" much easier to accomplish. Because of this, one might surmise that accetylene is a little easier to cut with. The superior (hot) flame allows for a little more "slop" in keeping the O2 stream on the work by keeping things more toasty. To summarize - "burning" is exactly the same as "oxidizing". To answer a common question in this thread - neatness of cut only has to do with pureness of the O2 and the volume - along with technique. And again, it is easier to work with the extra heat that accetylene provides, but propane is good enough. When one is welding, well, that is another story. Seems to take a lot longer to melt stuff with propane.
I used both gases at work, I find the Propane Gas much cheaper option its great for cutting with Tractors or Profile Cutters, excellent for heating metal, there's not that many downfalls using Propane, but I do prefer using Acetylene for thinner metals using smaller tips, to stop warpage, as warpage is a fact of life using Propane as seen in the video, before he moved the camera.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the rapid heat from oxygen and the higher flammable gases create the greatest thermal expansion or contraction effect. Weld distortion is a nightmare but knowing how to manipulate it is a true art.
Have used both acy and propane for gas cutting. Yes propane is cheaper and easier to get but you will use more oxygen with propane. For cutting metal the cheap plasma cutters are a much better choice. If you have a compressor much cheaper too both in start up costs and operating costs Around $200 for a plasma cutter. . The pilot arc ones cut rusty metal well.
What plasma cutter are you buying for $200? A quality one is upwards of $1000. Oxy propane is much more efficient for heating. Switch to propylene for even better cutting and better efficiency. Propane is also far safer and versatile. Acetylene only makes sense if you’re going to weld. Plasma is great for shop use. I hope to eventually buy a hypertherm.
@@victorfiori105 I have a $230 50amp Lotus plasma cutter from Amazon that I've been using for 2 years and haven't had a problem up to 5/8" material. Consumables are cheap. My 60amp Everlast machine, that's 1000 bucks, has pilot arc and cnc control, is obviously more capable, but if you're working with 1/2"+ on the regular, you can probably afford a nice machine. My point is, in 2023 the chinese machines are getting cheaper and more powerful. You just can't turn your nose up at a 200 dollar plasma cutter anymore.
I think this guy used to be a hand model, or possibly a hand circus star! Check out from 1:00 to 1:40 where his fingers dance with the components while he narrates. I had to watch that part a few times since it was so entertaining. Plus I liked the information.
Just another tip to save $$, Not sure how much psi you need for that size of torch, But I have a smaller jewelers torch and instead of buying oxygen tanks I purchased an Oxygen Concentrator to generate my oxygen and I only use about half of what it can produce and it powers my Oxy/Prop torch really nice. Never have to refill oxygen tanks again.
I use the EverFlo Stationary Oxygen Concentrator and it's been working awesome so far. I've only had it a couple weeks but it powers my torch really well.
Have regulators and tips for both. NG pressure in homes is to low to give it a go. Propane is fine for cutting in general but post prep is required before welding due to high hydrogen levels from burning propane in the cut interface.
Thanks for the tip. I forgot that you can use propane as a fuel for cutting and it costs a lot less. I used to work at a steel service center and one of the cutting machines used a big tank of propane and oxygen, outside our building.
Propane is cheaper, but you need 4 time the oxygen. Ratio is 1.2:1 oxygen to acetylen, but 4.3:1 oxy to propane for a proper flame. Not much economy IMO. As for pre heat, it's about the same. If it isn't, it's because your tip is too close to the work, a propane flame need to be further away than an acetylen flame, if you're right at the tip like an acety torch it will take forever. We use it a lot in steel mills(natural gas)but that's because they have hookup everywhere, so we just need to transport an oxygen tank.
If you check the tank you don't need an adapter. the fitting on the tank has left hand threads inside already. Have been using propane over 30 years.Good video though. Also if you run out on weekend just swap the tank
I have spent more time cutting with a torch than most I prefer acetylene I have worked places where it was claimed acetylene was too dangerous and was forced to use propylene gas I can use either and do good work I prefer acetylene if I can get it
Once the cut starts you use the same amount of oxygen because it's a chemical reaction at that point. If you're torch welding that's when you waste noticable amounts of oxygen
Great i need torch to heat knives and such. And i only cut thin metal. This should work great ty. Now i will go to my welding shop and see what they have
Doesn’t that propane introduce water vapor into your shop? I used to heat my shop with a propane radiant heater and everything in my shop started rusting.
Haven't seen much of a difference usually at the oxidized temperatures water disappears quickly and is cleaner burning than a heater that uses venturi atmospheric air
Too muck carbon monoxide will also make water. If you are using a unvented heater, crack à door. If your heater has a flew, check it for blockages. Either way, buy a CO detector. I paid about $35.00 for a CO detector with a 10 year battery.
acetylene burns with 2.5 mole of oxigen but propane burns with 5 mole :) not only twice because you need to crank propane more up to get same result heat wise
@@Amerikanin2numarali_ustasi This only applies at the pre-heating stage, that is, heating the iron/carbon steel to that temperature where it will burn in pure oxygen. For the actual cutting no fuel or combustion oxygen is needed.
Strange thing that I learnt to cut with oxygen. So the mixer gas is less important. Personally I now prefer plasma but not commercial. Water jet and laser are non pun intended bur cutting it these days. Unless it's scrap the thermal lance is the tool.
I worked as a welder at Sun Ship in Chester, PA, back in the 70's. They used propane for all cutting - I used propane for cutting, brazing and heating for many years, it leaves very little dross, and makes cleanup easy. It's not good for welding (I believe it's too oxidizing), but it's great for everything else. It does use more oxygen to get the neutral flame than acetylene does, but propane is much cheaper than acetylene. It does take a little longer to get the steel up to cutting temperature, but once the cut is started, there's no speed difference. And all it requires is an oxy/propane tip, no different regulators or torch. There's absolutely no reason you can't use propane in the field. And you can get propane just about anywhere, so if you need it on the weekend, or holidays, it's no problem. Try it, you'd be impressed. A tip costs less than $15.
First off let me compliment on the 2 extinguishers that you have on your welding/cutting set up. The reason you're using so much oxygen is not because you have more fuel with the propane but because you need about twice the ratio of oxygen and propane than you do with oxygen and acetylene. Yeah, the benefit of using acetylene is that you'll get through the work much faster. That can make a difference to you or a customer. You should try to avoid ever having an acetylene tank on it's side and be sure that when transporting either tank that regulators are off caps are on the tank. and tanks are secured either on a cart or something solid like a wall or or if it's for a truck build a rack on the truck to secure it from falling. Those tanks fall over and nail your toes you might just lose them, 😲
I'm not a welder. But from what I have heard. You need different tips and different hoses you can't weld with it and cutting isn't as clean with propane. Other than that there's no difference between the two. Lol
I worked as a welder at Sun Ship in Chester, PA, back in the 70's. They used propane for all cutting - I used propane for cutting, brazing and heating for many years, it leaves very little dross, and makes cleanup easy. It's not good for welding (I believe it's too oxidizing), but it's great for everything else. It does use more oxygen to get the neutral flame than acetylene does, but propane is much cheaper than acetylene. It does take a little longer to get the steel up to cutting temperature, but once the cut is started, there's no speed difference. And all it requires is an oxy/propane tip, no different regulators or torch. And you can get propane just about anywhere, so if you need it on the weekend, or holidays, it's no problem. Try it, you'd be impressed. A tip costs less than $15.
Not really and once the cut is started it doesn't much matter, I find the tips last longer as well because the outer jacket somewhat shields the orifices, propane is in a liquid and I believe acetylene is a compressed gas
It is recommended by some but I haven't had issues in a couple of decades using acetylene hoses in the shop, my rig hoses wear out every 5 or so years but that's mostly the sun a the sub zero temperatures we go out in.
Disagree! The fuel is only used to heat the iron/carbon steel to the temperature where it will burn in pure oxygen. Any fuel can be used in the appropriate torch, including natural gas and gasoline. The actual cutting is done with the pure oxygen blast, during which large amounts of heat are produced keeping the iron hot.
@@manosparavida3551 You are correct! However, for cutting carbon steel the fuel / oxygen mix is only used to heat the steel until it burns with pure oxygen. At that point the fuel is no longer required. This is why a cutting torch has three valves: 2 for the fuel / oxygen pre-heating flame, and the third valve for the cutting oxygen only. Many fabricators that do much shape cutting from steel plate use natural gas and oxygen for this pre-heating.
@@manosparavida3551 @BasementEngineer This is a semantic argument. You are both right in that burning is oxidizing in almost all cases here on earth (even though this connection was not directly made). To flog this horse a bit further: First the metal is heated by combining a hydrocarbon with oxygen to get water and a lot of heat: 2C 2 H 2 (g) + 5O 2 (g) → 4CO 2 (g) + 2H 2 O(g)+heat energy. We are "burning" accetylene, or we are "oxidizing" accetylene - same thing. We get the heat we want from this to be able to heat the metal to "kindling" temperature. When things are hot enough (about 1600°F) where the ferrous (iron) electrons in the molecules are orbiting around a larger electron shell which makes them available to any oxygen in the vicinity (as evidenced by little sparks coming off the orange metal), we don't need the accetylene anymore for heat - we have enough heat to sustain an oxygen-iron reaction on its own (that is, an exothermic reaction). This is when we blast it with pure (or almost pure) oxygen: Fe + O --- FeO + Heat (63,800 cal) First Reaction 3Fe + 2O2 --- Fe3O4 + Heat (267,800 cal) Second Reaction 2Fe + 3/2 O2 --- Fe2O3 + Heat (196,800 cal) Third Reaction No, for this discussion and the extra horse-flogging, all that doesn't need to be figured out. The only thing that should be noted is that each one of these reactions has heat as a result (byproduct) along with rusted (oxidized) metal. The metal actually "burns" (oxidizes). Same theme going on there. The only reason people use the term "cuttin' torch" is because it looks like that is what it does but that is only because of the speed of gas coming out of the torch that pushes the molten rust (sparks) and molten unoxidized iron (peanut butter-looking stuff) out of the way as you know. It just looks like it is cutting. Only a small bit of the iron is being oxidized, but the reaction is so prolific in producing heat that it melts the iron sitting right under it. Hell, one can make a cutting torch out of an unlit cutting tip. Try heating the metal up with a large regular tip and then immediately switch to an unlit cutting torch and start blowing on it with the O2. (Switchover has to be SUPER fast - can only be done with two people pulling this off.) Accetylene valve completely off, both O2 valves and regulator set as you regularly would for normal cutting operation. You'll see that the unlit cutting tip will "cut" the metal just fine. Just don't stop... If you want to really impress your friends, use a really large welding tip, get the iron almost white hot, and then turn the oxygen up and start cutting with it. The flame will blow out, but you will still be able to "cut". This will be hard to do but is entirely possible. (Make sure your O2 regulator is set pretty high for this. For safety, turn the fuel off if you're fast enough.) To be clear, the cutting torch maintains a flame that actually corrects the mistake of not having the O2 stream perfectly on the work at all times. It makes "cutting" much easier to accomplish. Because of this, one might surmise that accetylene is a little easier to cut with. The superior (hot) flame allows for a little more "slop" in keeping the O2 stream on the work. To summarize - "burning" is exactly the same as "oxidizing". To answer the very first OP statement - neatness of cut only has to do with pureness of the O2 and the volume - along with technique.
Yeah and what if youre just a diy schmoh working on your own damn car in your driveway? How the f can i justify acetylene cost when you have propane on hand and cut once every couple damn months. Welder = comment generator, everyone's an expert.
cutting with propane is nothing new but you didn't mention that the cut quality is really poor when compared to acetylene.. propane cutting produces a very rough, slaggy cut needing a lot of grinding to clean up if you're going to be welding on the cut area. but if all you're doing is cutting up scrap propane is fine for that.
You might know what you're doing but you certainly don't know how to explain it very well. If you're going to tell someone how to do it, why not SHOW THEM? Afterall, this is a VISUAL medium. Another thing you could do to help out your audience is: Learn to talk without mumbling. Open up your mouth and try pronouncing each word.
