After Mondas, there was Telos, and a whole new chapter for the Cybermen race. Chimp compiles some of the most prolific media which explained Telos and its history.
Things I know I got wrong… The ArcHive Tapes was released in 89 not 88. I said Tober'men' instead of Tober'man'. (There was only one Toberman) The date in the novel excerpt was Oct 15th not Oct '5th'. Apologies for all. Chimp will Chimp.🐵🐵
In "Earthshock", the Cyber leader tells the Doctor, "We meet again." I like to believe that the only regular Cyberman to be given any dialogue in Tomb" other than the Controller, became this Cyber Leader upgraded and promoted.
cyber leaders and controllers memories are transferred to the next version of themselves in upgrades or death. A cyber leader will always remember the past.
The best thing about Doctor Who canon is how when the Cybermen change designs, the creatives will be there to develop/insinuate a ton of lore and explanation for the change in order to satisfy the natural curiosity of the fans. All this because some 1966 costume designers went "I bet we can make these more comfy to wear" in between stories.
While the comic continuities are sometimes debatable, I've always appreciated how the Doctor was partially responsible for both the creation and destruction of the galaxy's two greatest threats. One of the original comics established that the Doctor had visited Mondas and suggested conversion as a solution to their problem - they just took it too far. Capaldi's finale doubled down on this history by showing how the early conversion process could have originally overtaken all of Mondas, with Missy (the body the Master hijacks right after the episode ends) perhaps being the last true Mondasian left. What we're left with is the Doctor inadvertently creating the Cybermen while trying to save a dying race (in many ways mirrored in his actions at the end of Genesis of the Daleks), with some Mondasians leaving the planet before the mass conversions. One of those ships was found by the Master and the 14th Doctor after it was trapped in the event horizon of a black hole. It's quite likely another ship crashed on Telos, making conversion the only way for the refugees to survive. At that point, they likely began assimilating the Cryons. If the Cyber Controller was a converted Cryon, it would explain why the Telosians believed they were the only Cybermen, despite them having some knowledge of Mondas. As for the initial fate of Mondas, I seem to recall there was some sort of plague and total conversion was the only alternative to extinction since there was no cure. The claim in The Moonbase that the Cybermen had left the planet before its destruction would fit in with the idea that there were people fleeing the planet who turned to full conversion for other reasons, and one can see with the original Mondasian Cybermen that their suits seemed designed to cover disfigurement while the singsong voice was a result of attempts to use artificial voice boxes. Meanwhile, those Mondasians who fled the planet ended up completely converting and removing their ability to feel emotion (the original intent was probably to prevent mass suicides caused by depression from being trapped in a metal shell). I've spent less time studying the Cybermen than the Daleks, but they're one of the most fascinating factions in all of Doctor Who, and reach into our inner fears of losing our humanity in a a type of deliberate psychological horror only matched by the Autons. Their history deserves a lot more love than it's had over the decades (and is less confusing than the time-travelling Daleks).
@@syweb2 The Master had burned through his reintegrations during an encounter with the Second Doctor. Upon his death, he was able to cheat the regeneration cycle, coming back as a a deformed monster. The Fourth Doctor dealt with this version of the Master, but it was established with the Fifth Doctor that the Master had found other ways to cheat death - in this case by taking possession of Nyssa's father. Throughout both the TV series and books, the Master has cheated death over and over again, even being given a new regeneration cycle due to his work in the CIA. So that's the canon background. Now for an explanation of Missy that fits in with canon. While on the Mondasian ship, Missy fatally wounds her former incarnation and he fatally wounds her in return. This creates a paradox, but one that can be solved. The Master is last seen heading back into the bowels of the ship on an elevator. We know that Time Lords can't do spontaneous sex changes according to all canon up until the horrible Moffat's retooling of the canon. This leaves us with the question of how a male timelord can become a female timelord canonically if he can't change sexes. But the episode gives us that very answer. While it doesn't happen onscreen, we can conclude that Missy is a Mondasian simply because the only way for the Master to become a woman is by possessing someone - just like he's done multiple times before. And the only women on the ship were all Mondasians. Thus, Missy is a Mondasian possessed by the Master. The only unanswered question i how far down he took the elevator before he was able to find an unconverted Mondasian. While it's difficult to believe he made it all the way back to the city, there's one bit of evidence to support this - Missy can control the Cybermen. This means it's very possible she worked with the Master at the clinic where patients were undergoing the early stages of conversion. It's possible that the Cybermen have been programmed to see the Master (and his senior staff, which may have included Missy) as something of saviours. I'm not saying the theory is completely fullproof, as there were some shenanigans that completely muddled the canon during the 14th Doctor's time (Heaven Sent is a prime offender). However, since this was the final episode before the reboot (which has a completely different canon), it's the theory that's managed to hold on among fans to prevent an otherwise near-perfect series finale from breaking canon.
I love classic Who as much as you. B&W Cybermen are a 10 out of 10. I enjoy your commentary. Earthshock has a warm place in my heart as well. I love the music when they match in.
My personal headcanon is that Cybermen evolved separately on both Telos and Mondas. However, survivors from Mondas discovered Telos and settled on it, merging together with the Telosian Cybermen. They almost immediately became the same species by merging their technologies. This explains how the Telosian Cybermen are both their own species *and* the descendants of Mondas who landed on Telos.
1960’s Cybermen are characterfully, by far, the best, not just in their design its also how they physically are. Seventies/eighties Cybermen are similar, but maybe it’s their more ‘human’ voices and occasional outbursts of emotion, putting them a second place for me. I think of Troughton’s Cybermen as ‘cold’ and there’s something about that word, scaring me. I don’t like being physically cold and coldness in people leaves me wanting to exit the room. Sixties Cybermen are of course robotic, but they paradoxically possess a human coldness, their obsession on logic, is not too distanced from say an appalling teacher who when clearly wrong, can’t ever admit it. Cold also mirrors a surface conscious narcissism, they want us to be like them, so for all their emotionless logic, they’ve certainly a high opinion of themselves. Opposite the most emotionally acrobatic Doctor of all, these dead-eyed Cybermen seem even colder. Against the kaleidoscopic super-nature of number two, their steely stillness feels a bit more like death, stone cold metal death. I love this history lesson, another beaut of a vid, you really are my favourite Whovian simian. Gx
Chosen Chimp: mentions Tomb of the Cybermen Me: visibly vibrates In all seriousness though, the complicated mess that is the cybermen's history just makes them more interesting to me, (even though it can be a bit maddening). I have even more respect for the Archive Tapes trying to put everything into a comprehensible timeline Keep up the good work, Chimp. Looking forward to the next video
@@TheChosenChimp I’m also get up there amount of research on this subject, this is what I have to say: I personally like to think that in the original continuity, the first batch of cybermen originated on earths twin planet "Mondas" (Also known as Planet 14 or Marinus) which was the 14th planet of the Sol System! The second batch of Cybermen were a result of the Cyberized Mondasians colonizing the Planet Telos and using the natives technology to preserve their own lives! Eventually, both tribes of cybermen would go on to conquer the universe! Meanwhile, on a parallel earth in a separate universe, John Lumic manage to create his own version of the Cybermen, eventually, they manage to travel to our own universe and create an alliance with their counterparts from the main universe. My theory is that maybe, one of those Cyberman Tribes (Mondasian, Parallel Earthling, etc.) evolved to a point that they became just as advanced as the time lords, then they somehow encoded themselves into some kind of universal matrix of nature at some point in history and programmed almost any sentient species in the universe to recreate the cybermen!
I absolutely adore the classic Cybermen and especially from the 2nd Doctor's era. Moonbase, Tomb and Invasion are *chef's kiss*. And hopefully one day I can watch the Wheel in Space too! I love the Atmosphere and sound design of their stories. Also 7:15 Your Billy Butcher is showing.
'Tomb' is by far the Cybermen at their most terrifying (in TV terms at least). It's odd to think the 2nd Doctor was the one to go up against them so much in his run, but I must confess the last two stories they appeared in had me scratching my head in their aesthetics. For one, the Cybermen voices in 'Wheel In Space' were just... too odd! There was something almost comical about them when talking to The Doctor, and it took some of the sting off their overall appearance. As for their look in 'The Invasion', it is amazing... unless you look past their torso and down to where they happen to all be wearing silver Doc Martins. It begs the question, who ties the Cybermen laces, and why didn't the Doctor/UNIT find them and get rid, or at the very least tie the laces together?! The only other faux par I can think of when it comes to Cybermen outfits is from 'revenge' where for some reason their front unit's are held on by nipple rings! (good luck unseeing that), but now I'm veering away from the video's point and into some sort of Cyber fashion show. 0_o
It's really not the confusing when you take a step back and realized that Telos and Planet 14 were colonized, not by Cybermen, but by Mondasians. We know the Mondasians had colony ships (thanks to The Fall of the Doctor) and it makes sense that Cybermen would refer to Mondasian history as their own, after all they ARE Mondasians. Since all the worlds remained in contact with one other, Cyberfactions could have arrised on each other (the same way simular political parts arrise in seperate countries here on Earth) and they could have undergone the same Cyberconverions or have been invaded by each other's Cybermen. Thus these are "other" Cyberman planets that Cybermen come from while Mondas is their original homeworld.
As a bit of a cyber fanatic (understatment im obsessed with them like ive dedicated 3 years of my life researching about them and i will add to that number) but hearing this not only made me feel less insane but also clarified some info for me
Great work as always Sir Chimp! It's a convoluted but very interesting history (that in my opinion) you have covered very well! Thank you my friend! 😁👍
I was 5 in 1963, I saw and remember in a kind of black and white fuzz the original Dr Who episodes, the first appearances of the Daleks and Cybermen. I was part of the children's audience Dr Who was written for, so Dr Who belongs to me. It wasn't until 1976 that I saw my first VHS video recorder, my school bought one with a video camera, if you moved too quickly you became transparent. I remember that effect from the Apollo missions on the moon. Without home video recorders we couldn't check that each time the Daleks or Cybermen appeared on television they were slightly different. Rumor was that as outfits and props were damaged when they all got killed they were thrown away and new outfits and props had to be made. We didn't get Radio Times, we watched Dr Who on TV and didn't see the books very often in W H Smiths, so as I child working entirely from memory I was aware that the Dr Who timeline must be very jumbled and probably impossible, but each story was an adventure that inspired us. For me the classic Cyberman image was Invasion on the steps of St Paul's Cathedral in London. I bought a Corgi Classics 1970's Dr Who set C2003 consisting of a silver Dalek with blue domes and a Cyberman, I made my own Cyberman outfit from this 2" model using Lycra and materials I had available, trying to make a 1968 Invasion version. In my Cyberman suit I had limited vision and hearing, I had to face directly at whatever I wished to see, I felt repressed and potentially violent. First time i wore it at a Halloween party I approached my father, he said "There could be anyone in there" and walked off not recognising me. I wore it at a party last year and although it's a home made, inaccurate 1970's Cyberman, guys were wanting selfies. Without broadband we didn't know exactly what Cybermen looked like and neither did anyone else.
The Cybermen could have left Mondas for Telos (and the Cryons' refrigeration technology) and made more Cybermen on Telos, so a group of Cybermen can be from both Mondas and Telos.
The older style cyber men were definitely more scary. The dead, staring eyes are horrible. Spent many a terrified half hour hiding behind the couch when Dr Who was on the telly😢Worse was my younger brother telling me they were hiding in our airing cupboard - which I believed till I was at least 10😂
I get that convergent evolution could lead two two human civilization inventing cyborgs indepedently... but what are the odds they all have teardrop eyes and head handles and call themselves Cybermen? Also, if they are just convergent, why are the Cybermen from Pete's world and the Cybermen from Exodus taking on the exact same armor design? And why would the Cybertelosians have records of the Tenth Planet if they aren't related?
Love it absolutely love it the telos cybermen are the best and u can’t help but love them and I love everything they say “we will survive” of cause they will, u know the cybermen will always go back there as they always have ancient secrets ready to wake and begin the conversion of all humanity love the video can’t wait for part 2
i'd love to know exactly how peter hawkins achieved this vocal effect. i read somewhere that the bbc gave him a dental palate modified with an electric buzzer but im not entirely sure. it would explain the rogue vowels and silent Gs as he'd be trying to speak around the buzzer that i presume is bolted to the palate. would the combine that with a vocoder or something? i'd love to mechanically recreate the system for a wearable helmet somehow!!!
Did Mondas co-exist at the same time as the Ice Warriors on Mars and the Silurians on Earth? Were they in contact with each other? Why does nobody remember the Mondas invasion in 1986 except in The Moonbase, or the first Cyberman Invasion of London in the 1970s
And that pattern of merging of cyber-divergents continues. Lumic's parallel world Cybermen combine with those evolved from the design seen in 'Dalek'... This head being one of those from 'Revenge of the Cybermen'... The Cybermen of 'Silver Nemesis'. 'Rise of the Cybermen' + 'Silver Nemesis' = Why the Cybermen look like they do now...
Cybermen have always been my favorite Dr Who faction. They way their origins are multiple choice is like the Doctor's and Valeyard's. I also like how in Faction Paradox they become religious order of Silver Smiths and in some books the future Cybermen are pacifistic order of Cyber-Lords who want to become beings of pure soul. Like Rassilon wanted Timelords to become in End of Time.
Given that Attack is set in 1985 (just before The Tenth Planet), and Tomb is set 500 years in the future, it doesn't seem like they are the same Cyber Controller.
Ever since I saw the Cybermen 50 years ago, in Tomb of the Cybermen, I was instantly more scared of them than the pepperpot Dalek limp dicks. The Cybermen breaking out of their Tombs made me cack my pants.
I HATE the paradox of the cybermen and their chest respirator units. Someone needs to reconcile that. How can you choke a cybermen to death by clogging the chest unit with gold if they don't even need air to breathe and can walk around in space or on the moon? Ben even killed a bunch by spritzing the chest units with cleaning fluids. Do they need to breathe or NOT???
The one thing that makes it hard for cybermen to have evolved on Telos is that the native species there ain't well um anything like humans. I think we could just say that the cyrons are just a species that came later on as they clearly weren't there in tomb so they must have came in-between & six is just wrong about the fridge thing. Also changed my mind Attack is worst as it has um just makes the timeline bad. edit: damn I paused it just before you spoke of it fuck. Oh & the wee attack of the cybermen does seem not the worst. I can't really say one is.
Could it be possible that Telos was invaded by Mondasian Humans and then they became Cybermen separately. Perhaps due to having the same cultural and technological background they were more likely to do so.
My headcanon? Fuck you they're all canon. Every name is more or less interchangeable and the nature of cybernetic evolution and human exploration is such that early CyberTelosians and CyberMarinusians could have already been evolving independently and be influenced by outside CyberMondasians at the same time, as well as the simple fact that CyberMondasians would have had to have integrated into other Cyberplanets thus making the proliferation-era racial makeup varied by default. In Junkard Demon we see these two early Mondasion-Telosian hybrid "Cybernauts" found in the same area as some late CyberMarinusians (CyberNomads), this is pretty much all the evidence I need to say CyberProliferation was chaotic as all hell before the CyberNeopmorph era. P.S. I classify Kroton as an early CyberNeomorph. Something happened between Junkyard Demon II and the Orion War that made Cybermen absolutely hate hive-minding...
Please, Please! Put something in that mug. Anything. Just sucking in air like that at the start is really getting on my nerves. You could mute the noise, but I'd still know you're doing it... ;-)
As a trans woman I don't know how to feel about Kitt Peddler's phobia of plastic surgery that the original Cybermen represent. It almost feels like a strawman villain now.
Interesting and fair point.🙂 I believe writers such as Alan Barnes, Marc Platt and Steven Moffat have brought new found depth to the Mondasian Cybs. And Tomb of the Cybermen onwards have made it clear that the main source of villainy for these monsters were their condemnation of personal freedom, which Kit also played his hand in. Oppressors of choice are these cold metal swines.🤖🤖
@@TheChosenChimp They're bad because they remove emotions, not because they use surgery... But emotionlessness isn't as ripe for scares as body horror I guess.
Straw whatnow? Cyber augmentation goes way deeper than the merely cosmetic. The Tenth Planet faces may look like post-surgical masks but are in fact not. Deliberately reminiscent of the compression masking familiar to burns victims and more than a few ex WW2 soldiers from just 20 or so years earlier. Suggestive of flesh-deep scarring. Their look was finally determined by a costume designer - to that level of superficial detail, at least - rather than explicitly by Dr Pedler. His field of interest was more limb and organ transplant, and the study of the human brain, and the eye. He was also critical of the scientific value of vivisection, so it seems that life being snuffed out or abused in the name of medical science was more the fear. Sorry if this reads like mansplaining, straw or otherwise. But you know how it is. I guess we all have our fetishes, to which we can attribute almost anything we encounter. Personally I take the physical evolution of the Cybermen through the various era's as representative of Pedlers original vision - from misguided human to soulless machine over just a few decades. I can find nothing which relates to your view as to what - as you see it - Cybermen represent. But please, cite me the evidence and who knows, maybe there'll actually be something of even a little substance beneath
@@hgwells1899 I feel like Kit simply floated the idea with his wife as a neat thought experiment He didn't think of it as a message he wanted to convey. What if we go so wild with prosthetic that we lose what made us human? Just worldbuilding for the sake of worldbuilding. Science fiction. But you know, our stories don't exist in a vacuum. I feel like whenever media talks about surgery, it's about how someone does surgery TOO MUCH. To the point where most people nowadays think of surgery as something bad. I don't think that trend started with the Cyberman, but they're kind of part of that one sided depiction of surgery as something bad. Transitioning is cosmetic now, but there are already studies to create like working genitalia and so on. The more science progresses, the more autonomy we will have over how we look. And I feel like people will see it as invasive or drastic, because media has depicted changing your body the way you see fit as something negative for years.
@@hgwells1899 Maybe I'm stretching. I remember someone saying he was afraid of how far surgery was going, and that's what created the Cybermen. I don't remember who said it tho.
