Thanks Tom, it feels mostly like a tricopter in the air. There’s a bit of control coupling between pitch and roll that can create small oscillations, but a fast enough controller takes care of it just fine
@@rcaviator8408 I’ve been tried on several objects and got problems of having everything jammed up. Seems it’s way better to get stuck on a single object so that able to finish it…
Reminds me of the Voith Schneider propulsion system that some ships have. It does work, and it has a few advantages over traditional propellers, but there's a reason why only very few ships were equipped with it. Maintenence cost mainly, an awful lot of moving parts.
It's the same idea (both use cyclorotors), but the VSP (Voith-Schneider Propulsion) system has a more sophisticated control linkage that adjusts both thrust direction and pitch (and thus thrust) magnitude; this cyclocopter changes rotor speed to control magnitude, which would not be practical in a large size.
I love how this cyclocopter seems to be flapping its wings to stay airbourne. What a crazy little machine! Loved this vid, Nicholas. The editing and graphics were great!
Hey, I was just thinking it's a bit like the magnus effect plane you and PS made... although very different and more complicated with it's moving blades
@@Chris.Davies Then you should really be into free flight gliders. The point is clearly to build a fun experiment and proof of concept it's only stupid if you fail to see that.
Pretty cool that this concept has been used in boat propulsion for a long time. Voith Schneider is the company. It's used in tugs and some other specialty craft. It can drive any direction basically instantly. Good work!
OOOOH. I didn't really understand how this method was meant to work, but your comment reminded me this was how the old steamships with big wheels used to propel themselves forward and it all clicked
@@K3end0 Actually, that's slightly different. Paddle steamers as they are called, with the big wheels at the sides, have fixed paddles rather than movable ones. Voith Schneider make vertical-axis propellers of the same type as the horizontal axis blades of this cyclocopter. A key advantage is that by adjusting the central point about which the blades are offset, you can change the direction of propulsion to any horizontal direction, 360 degrees. That's why they are used for boats such as tug boats and car ferries that have to be very manoeuvrable.
Really cool design. Especially how forward and backward motion is achieved just by adjusting the pitch of individual blade per cycle. Really impressive.
From an old military helicopter pilot, I sure enjoyed your venture into the realm of a 'new' VTOL design! Fascinating! GREAT WORK, Nick!! However, if that design were attempted, for a full scale creation, I believe that it would be tough to handle an engine failure, for a pilot!! I don't think that an Autorotation would be possible. But for an RC model,.. GREAT DESIGN THAT EXPLORES NEW AREAS OF ADAPTING DIFFERENT LAWS OF FLIGHT!!
@@NicholasRehm T-37's and T-33 fixed wing in Jet fixed-wing flight school,..., then, from Helo School onward: H-19's, UH-1F's,... then, after 2 tours in Vietnam, (including flying President Johnson, and his family, during my 2nd combat tour),...and then going to Washington to fly VIP's: H-21's, UH-1F's, (again),.. and CH-3's, and the twin-engine UH1N model,.. and, after completing the Army's Maintenance Test Pilot training, (at Ft. Eustice),...being assigned as Vice President Spiro T. Agnew's Senior Command Pilot for 4 years. (Nick!! you are TRULY amazing!! I have just recently discovered your work, and you have seemed to fully understand, and employ a WHOLE RANGE of different capacities: Software design, application of different principles of flight, 3D printer designs to make your various parts, etc.!! AMAZING!!) I TIP MY HAT TO YOU, NICK!! and I look forward to see your many other videos as well,... that I have just found to be a REAL TREASURE-TROVE of ideas!!!! Thanks!!
When flipping, could you theoretically keep adjusting the airfoils so they always create lift upwards, (making it possible to not only maintain altitude but also have it front flip very slowly)
@@darrenthompson6115 Collective pitch R/C model helicopters can flip forwards, backwards or sideways. Do a search for Radio Control 3D helicopters to see what I'm saying. R/C Pilots fly them like hummingbirds on crack.
@@hifinsword well.... I took you advice and came across Tarek Assardi.... OMGgggghh... never seen precision snd sheer talent flying like that.... totally astounded...🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Efficiency is slightly less, but only because it has not been 'optimized to heck' like multirotor propellers yet... Really, its not a fair comparison to directly compare efficiency as your main metric of 'usefulness' since the aerodynamics are so different. There are other benefits/design considerations to factor in too like thrust vectoring ability or disk loading/tip speed!
In copters/drones tip speed is so to say a resolved issue. The total weight is a factor too, as is construction cost (and also efficiency, as it too determines need for power and fuel to reach set goal.) Interesting anyhow. A comparison to Flettner too would be interesting!
Sweet! I'm sure someone out West would pay for this - they already use drones to check fences and stock and once it moves and has a camera, if it's three times more efficient, clear winner! I envisaged a "planarcopter" which would work with a linear foil like a glider but the idea never got past a sketch. Well done!
Enjoyed the heck out of it. As far as practicality is concerned though, it doesn't have much payload area for commercial use in large scale....not that you intended it to be. Very interesting. Thanks!
Brilliant. You win my 'youtube video of the day' award, a very prestigious award appointed by me. I do actually watch quite a few, so it does mean something!
Very interesting, if slightly mad! Your talk about how lift varies along the length of a helicopter blade reminds me of another problem helicopters experience: retreating blade stall. As the forward speed of the helicopter increases, so the speed of the retreating blades relative to the air falls until ultimately they aren't going fast enough to generate lift, and the helicopter stalls on one side. This could also happen to a cyclocopter, if you got it to go fast enough, but the "blades" stalling would be the ones underneath the wing assembly, so there would be no change in attitude.
(If I correctly understand) For a cyclocopter going forward, with blades at the top going forward the top blades would get increased airspeed and lift. The bottom blades going rearward would create lesser lift but the increased lift of the top blades would more than compensate. This would create more drag above the centre of mass but should not increase the angle of attack so there should be no blade stall. I believe for a helicopter the retreating blade has to increase the angle of attack for the lower airspeed while the advancing blade decreases the angle of attack to compensate. which is what creates the stall issue (as speed increases) to one side as opposed to (for the cyclocopter) the load just being transferred to the top blade with similar angle of attach but different airspeed/lift. Once the airspeed approaches/matches/exceeds wingtip speed then you are in trouble and exceeds my understanding right now after a bottle of wine.
@@peterjones3113 I would think the added drag of the blades when they are between top and bottom position would make it a non-issue though, haha. It would be interesting to see a design of two servo hubs in each end so the pitch angle can be adjusted separately within the pairs of blades, to allow for the blades moving up/down to pitch and get the angle of attack of the blades in transition closer to zero. Though this also requires the servo to be constantly changing positions (4 times per rotation) when the craft is moving at speed. I suppose this would also be an effective way of introducing horizontal acceleration without effecting vertical lift when the craft is hovering, by having only a single pair active with the other pair in a neutral position, if it is even possible to find a neutral position without adding even more complexities.
WOW! When I saw the early version of this type of design I Was sure it could be made to work, I've seen the four rotor models that have been proven but you have made a craft that is very unique and awesome, Thanks for sharing
I thought it was going to be using the Magnus effect with Flettner rotors... But no! Something new to me. What a great device! I could see miniaturised battlefield drone versions. Great video along with excellent model making! Thanks!
A similar take is actually in current use around the world: the Voith Schneider Propeller for ships. It allows excellent maneuverability and is used for tugboats, ferries and other ships requiring omnidirectional control. It's pretty awesome!
Exactly my thought. The mechanism is same, just tilted and wider "propeller blades" Question is: where are the limits for scaling this up? Mechanical stress to the joints? Vibrations? RPM? Torque? Moment of inertia? Stalling-like effects? I think, the by-now wing-like design might be improved dramatically for this motion pattern and airflow, as compressible air makes other conditions than water (Reynolds number)
A big worry I have is how it handles motor/engine failures. It's the same problem I have with things like quadcopters. They're basically rocks when the power fails, which is why I have difficulty seeing them as viable for moving humans around.
Crude as it is, my solution for making quads safe and same thing here would be a parachute. I get why airlines don't issue passengers with a parachute. It's just not good optics, and it will create more panic in those afraid than not thinking about it. However, I doubt anybody who ever got a plane would not be very happy and grateful to know their plane has one. It makes lemonade from lemons so to speak in these cases.
@@GrassPossum In an almost always uncontrollable situation, getting hundreds of passengers out of an airliner would be impossible. The only way parachutes in an airliner would be workable is an emergency where control is possible for about the normal disembarkation time that would be done, not the usual emergency. It's hard enough when there are only a few people trying to bail out. A parachute for light aircraft is already available and used by many. What would make multicopters safer in case of a motor failure would be a hexocopter or octocopter. A failure of one motor wouldn't condemn it to a crash.
Very cool. I like the design and wholeheartedly agree because it's more manageable Harrison aspect of a squirrel cage design. I believe the market has gone with the four propeller blades like a helicopter for a maneuverability that's more instant. I subscribed to your channel I can't wait to see what else you have.
Makes me wonder if you could do collective pitch as well, so that you don't have to vary the speed between the two rotors for roll control, but rather adjust the angle of attack between the two so one makes more lift
The Voith Schneider propulsion system does that (with huge heavy blades in water for ship propulsion). The control linkage is definitely more complex, but it's viable.
What is the relative efficiency in power required to lift generated when compared to the quad. I live on a coastal bluff with an afternoon updraft of about 15-20mph. I have considered building a cyclorotor to capture this energy. Is this, in your opinion, worthwhile?
Efficiency is slightly less, but only because it has not been 'optimized to heck' like multirotor propellers yet... There are other benefits/design considerations to factor in too like thrust vectoring ability or disk loading/tip speed!
A conventional 3 blade type horizontal axis wind turbine has efficiency of 40 to 50%. A vertical axis turbine has 10 to 15% efficiency. If you align the axis of a turbine with the direction of air flow, all blades are generating lift, or are used to capture energy. If the axis is across the air flow direction only part of the blade arrangement is working for you, the rest is working against you. No, in my opinion, this is not worthwhile. This propeller arrangement is used in situations that require rapid flow direction changes, like in tugboat applications. They have tremendous power inputs, and the losses are acceptable as the benefits of flow direction control outweigh the need for power conservation. In your application, you want maximum efficiency, and have little need for flow vectoring. Besides, the complexity of the cyclorotor adds many more failure points, increased maintenance and shorter service life.
I wonder if you put two cylinders, one slightly smaller inside the other with a bunch of tiny holes and bridges connecting, or sliding past, for movement in the same way as the flaps on this cycloidal rotor, if this can hybrid with the Magnus effect. It would require many smaller pieces, which also increases complexity. But would it also increase efficiency with multiple downforce generations in one space?
Great video, from the airflow view it seems a lot simpler than a helicopter, even if less intuitive for us humans. The cycloidal rotor allows for a much more stable flight than the helicopter or quadcopter, the simple mechanical way of steering the "wings" for the movement in two dimensions is also a big improvement compared to the "rolling around" that a "normal" ´copter design has to cope with. Basically it is an ingenious design and I would be very much interested in the forces it throws at the ground compared to the predecessors. The flip would have worked, if you had a bit more ground clearance. You could see in the video how the machine made a complete flip and was just not able to compensate the received downwards thrust. Either build in a limiter, so that it doesn´t power the rotors if the top faces downwards or make the flip at at least double the height. Maybe triple, I am just guessing, but gravity is also a component next to power to weight ratio. And my brain aint no supercomputer. Every writing mistake can be kept by the finder, as I am drunk af.
I've often thought a regular quad copter design with servos tilting all 4 blades is the best design concept. This would keep copter body straight and level but all 4 blades would tilt forward, back or side to side.
Congratulations, I didn't think you'd get this to fly! Even with a model there are large structural forces (bending forces) on the wings because of the high rotation speed. There is an application in shipbuilding for ships that need high maneuverability at low speed (harbor tugs, ferries) with a vertical rotation axis of the system. Unfortunately, the description in Wikipedia is only available in German under the title “Voith-Schneider-Antrieb”. If you switch Wiki to English, you get to the title "Cyclorotor", which unfortunately does not describe the application in ships.
It's used a lot in ships that have to be very manoeuvrable, such as car ferries and tug boats because you can change the direction of thrust to any direction very quickly and efficiently
WoW, I always wondered wich machine would really flight when I saw the movie or show where your black and white clip was from. You got to love dedicated engineers and thank them for our technical wonders of the world
Well done! Have you seen "Cyclorotor's" 83kg prototype craft with 4 cyclorotors? I am also interested in producing lift from the blade less ring design
dude you are totally awesome I think you're pure genius i've been watching your videos and seeing the things that you do and come up with and if you don't have an aerospace engineering degree or some kind of education like that you definitely should pursue it because you're way above and beyond any anybody else I know
Awesome work! I'm curious to know how much you can increase thrust and flight time compared to props. Pro tip: if you want to flip, consider having more height so you have space to recover.
@@Dark0neone i know what you're thinking but as strange as it sounds, the more height the more time you have to get it back levelled. For the same reason cats survive more falls from 9th floor compared to 5th floor.
@@swishpan unless you don't level it and then my point still stands. I wouldn't do the first test at a great height. I would rather fix it than rebuild it, especially without getting much useful information.
Nicholas, you have a great RU-vid channel and I think you do some of the most amazing projects, this being one of them. Thanks for all the inspiration.
Would be awesome to be able to quickly make an electric car into a drone by attaching these to the wheels. Then you could fly somewhere, disconnect, then drive to the final location. Once energy density gets better, who knows!
No No No Don't You Dare Give up on Cyclo Copter… This Is Quite Probably the Coolest Flying Machine I've Ever Seen… Do Not I Repeat Do Not Give up … See if you can perfect it a little bit and make a casual everyday flyer reliable one… I repeat no no no no do not give up. This is the most beautiful flying machine I've ever seen… Please please do not give up
Looks cumbersome, but love the fact that you thought outside the box and created something so different that actually worked! Good job! Keep usin' yer noggin!
You remind me of genius Mark Rober. He talks 90mph with assurdness on what he's explaining and is SO confident in what he says, that it is a factual truth ! You do the same. Your knowledge quotient must be way up there ! THANKS for a great demonstration. (lesson to be learned...mow the grass first in the landing area, or provide a tray for it to land on, so your landing gear won't get tangled in the grass.) The air foil looks like nothing a strip of clear packaging tape wouldn't fix, & I believe your forward loop would have worked just fine if it had been preformed with more altitude. This would give more "belly" for the recovery to the normal flight aspect.
You know, I bet this would make for a nice hover bike set up. One in the front and one in the back. They both spin horizontally. These spinner things have a quick and responsive way to control thrust direction without changing throttle which rotors blades are bad at.
Fascinating concept. Many of those who saw daVinci's plans for a 'traditional' helicopter said it would never work. Stick with it. I think it shows real potential.
