Cylinder Replacement Gone Bad - Grumman Style 

Glad you liked it

@Dillan Baker Why not, I've been a "Shadetree Mechanic for over 40 years and do good work to a high standard. Key points to Teardown are 1) speed, 2) do no damage, 3) look for clues and other problems. After this is cleaning and inspection, and the last part , assembly, is where the skill and knowledge make you money and make a happy customer.

@Dillan Baker Thus speaks a man who has only been paid by the hour or has a yearly salary. Get paid by the job and you don't faff around on the less important bits. Time wasted is money lost. Oh, if I wasn't good or I was doing it "Wrong" I wouldn't have generations of repeat clients. My best is a Granddaughter so far! Just a child's bike but the trust is there.

Glad you liked it

Could work!

ihdieselman basically at this point it would need a engine overhaul

That is why when you start any engine The oil must get hot enough to get rid of the Moisture. A lot of Pilots that do not know any better go out to the field and start there engine and start it for 5 min or 10 min. then shut the engine off. OMG they are killing their Engine little by little. No one tells pilots not to do this. The A and P should be telling the Owners. That is never happen as most or 99% of the A and P's do not know that.

Yep

@@ctsteve1967 Yeah, if you have any sort of vehicle that's started only occasionally, you need to run it 30 minutes or until the oil gets up to 180F, when you do start it. Not getting the oil to full temperature is worse than not starting it at all.

It's a comedic tragedy... and a disaster waiting to happen. Please don't work like they do.

@@scofab Yep, these old boys are going to kill their customers, shocking trade practices.

Maybe we will

Yikes !

that's very true.

How true...you can’t even spell airplane!

@@johnorchard6158 hahahaa yeah but he is completely correct. Put it back together and find extra parts when done!

Ya it has me cringing too many people doing different things tossing parts on the floor...

Agree

That depends on whether that sign off was twelve flight hours and, say, sixty months ago.

Agreed

A&( can't sign off an annual!

@@DHMovie100 A&P can sign off 100 hr inspection, IA for the annual.

@@GrummanPilots Is it legal for an A&P to do the work *with* an IA and the IA sign off?

Glad you liked it, all my ball peens were is use elsewhere

I have seen many people with a million dollar snap on tool set and yet still had no clue, dont always judge by tools

Long hours sitting in the weather, that evidence of water in the oil would not be restricted to just that problem. I'd bet there's extensive corrosion right through that plane. I would also never pull a cylinder without a complete overhaul after such extreme compression loss, it's just asking for trouble, but looking at the rest of the plane, it should be a scrap job anyway.

@@alasdair4161 Cars Engines also sit for years and years and years.

@@alasdair4161 There is a reason for the broken rings or rings.

Yes

yes he must have left them inside that last engine rebuild ???

@@WayneCook306 Eh they're just the 10mm sockets. 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 drive 10mm sockets just disappear into the ether.

@@TestECull And 1/8 drill bits, everybody steals the 17 mill spanners.

@@TestECull lost tools = trash worker.

@@rbarnes8169 No. Lost tools = human being. Everyone loses things once in a while.

Glad you liked it

No respectable outfit in the business of aircraft maintenance would allow that many hands to touch an engine, certainly not casual passers-by and none would allow a picture of a claw hammer in a maintenance cart to make it as far as youtube. Cripes ahmighty, they're terrible.

OK

It was restored

Pretty much. It was eventually trailer and got to a new home and is in Paint shop now for finish. Nice plane now. Lots of love and money and time.

ok

It had happened

No worries, fly safe.

Shaun Olinger Did you happen to notice the ignition system? At least on the right the ignition leads were disconnected. Nothing would’ve happened as long as all leads are disconnected. But I agree it’s a good practice to watch the prop and ensure the keys are removed.

Maybe

claw hammer?

@@johnaustin6673 These boys are living proof that Charles Darwin was right!!

that's why IAs have IAs inspect their work

I have not much idea what I'm looking at but the mechanical skill really seems to be lacking. Don't work on my aircraft. :-)

Larry, Moe, and Curly.

Maybe

It did come off and get overhauled. FYI

@@GrummanPilots Oh I imagine. The ole gal deserved (needed) it. Great video.

Glad you liked it, and she shines now

Yep

This plane was restored

k

All he needed to do was pull the cylinder off or there is a lip on the crankcase end that allows you to pop them out

ok

Nice

Glad you liked it

Yep

OK

I have been less than impressed with the A&P mechanics I have encountered. I'm a master tech at car dealer, we have A&P mechanics(as customers) that can't put a water pump on a car. I wouldn't trust them working on my plane. Which is why I went experimental. S repairman cert makes sure my kitfox is in good hands.

Kris N real shame

@@krisn8820 aaaaaaaa

Thanks

Or mine

Could have been

k

Comes in handy

No parts left over, put it back together for trip on trailer back home.

They stick the left over bits down the carb! Lol

Ebay!!!

ya think

Yes

as a retired mechanic, I agree, that engine should be completely disassembled, inspected, cleaned, repaired and rebuilt to specifications.

Time for a major overhaul. Those in the know realize what that means.

Norbert Siewert $$$$$$!

Yep

Overhauled and restored

I was waiting for the pipe wrench. With a cheater pipe.

OK

Been told it was a great learning tool, and Grumman designed her to be simple, safe and with little automation so students would get used to a higher work load and greater speed on installed power . Kinda like teaching a guy to drive on a 5 speed mg, rather than an automatic toyota.. manual tank switch, higher performance, the student would come out of the syllabus more confident than on a 172, or a Cherokee.. it doesn't coddle the student, and they can transition more easily to older aircraft with less automation, or higher performance aircraft due to it's own higher performance,.. Strikes me as a good investment for a flight school. I think this was Grummans philosophy when Roy LoPresti modded her up from Bede's design..my opinion they should have sold her abroad as a military liason/ trainer instead of breaking into the saturated us market.. India, South East Asia, South America would have been great markets for this plane. give it some more power and range and it would do very well in Brazil..too bad to see this example in such bad shape..

Yep

Yep

That tells you almost nothing about what wear is occurring, when and at what rate. If you want to track things like that try pulling oil samples and having them tested on a regular basis.

k

@@deeremeyer1749 Yes but in this case I'm just interested in the engine shedding significant amounts of metal, and on Lycs it's slivers from the cam lobes and followers. Sending oil out for analysis is a whole other level.

Restored now

Glad you liked it

OK

With a title of 'Cylinder Replacement Gone Bad' you were expecting something different I say.

Not what I could see in the little time available, you would be able to tell pretty quickly by rocking the prop anyway

replaced at engine overhaul in a few month down the road

ok

Great idea

@@GrummanPilots I almost spit out my coffee. 😂

Looks like a lawn mower engine

fucken claw hammer

That's what I thought, a brass drift would had been better.

i agree..

@@aramirez8427 and I thought I was the only one to notice that! hahaha!

Cannot be too careful.

The easy past is the wing off and wing on about 2 hours for all of that. Scrapping the old sealant out, cleaning and then reseal can take several days.

@@GrummanPilots thanks I was just checking my engineer took 24 to 26 hours , and I found another engineer saying you don't need to take wings off you take panels off then remove the tank it takes 14 to 16 hours all completion.

Yep

No

Yes

OK

Why silicon?

OTTO runs for a long time even broken.

yrp

Time between overhauls is based on engine hours not decades tied down in a field. Light use may also allow oil on internal parts to dissipate and allow moisture to get at that metal. Time based atrophy takes a tole, like the Corvette a mother was keeping for her now deceased son driven less than 100 miles a year since the 80s. Just damp winter/spring/fall cycling outside can do that given enough time.

by the color of the oil looks like a lot of water is in the engine.

Plane restored, engine redone by Lycon

Someplace not flown

In the latest video

Now about a plane that flew here.

Owner had a low cylinder and we had a spare, was going to put it on, but engine was done

All good points, not all owners are so stringent.

the best comment

Glad you liked it

NO!!!! I don't know what the boxes on the firewall we're, looked like regulators or something similar, but they sure as HELL should not have looked like THAT! This poor airplane needs a better owner!

Far from normal!

NOt with regular use

Exactly, yet in the last month 5 people did buy without a prebuy just to get their hands on one.

And to thing these idiots work on this plane it’s scary id never let these idiots touch a wrench.

I'm not an airplane mechanic, but I fly them - in all areas of aviation, there is somewhat of an attitude that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This may sound lazy, but there is actually good data to show that messing with things too much CAUSES more problems than it prevents. That being said, there are annual inspections which are mandatory, and depending on how particular your local mechanic is, a plane could find itself in the condition as seen in this video. There are some modern methods involving engine monitors and oil analysis done at time of oil change that can prevent the issues shown. Another cost to worry about for sure, but small when you are talking about the safety of you and your family.

Snob

@faa inspector- who lets their engine get that bad. think they should be working on that?

Utter nonsense. There are replacement requirements based on hours of service for some equipment, as well as mandatory maintenance requirements in every planes POH. Every plane owner I've ever known have been uber anal about the condition of their planes. @@jsteiger2228

I bet It would not surprise anyone if all of them present had a hand at various times in the routine maintenance of that POS..

Yep

Yep

No, HF

OK

It was not now

It came to us, not maintained by us.

Thats why you should only fly planes that leak oil, they never rust!

No but redone now.

Yep

Not needed yet

It is

ok

Good luck with it, they are well engineered and will last a long time.

@@GrummanPilots It's a cute little trainer, getting my ppl this year in it (half way there :D )

20:18 carbon deposits on the piston tops may have contributed to ring damage. ?

Rings do break.

It was overhaled

I have built and tuned bike and car engines all my adult life and I was surprised at this remark, surely you want to find the nasty before the thing is in the air?

I don't think they maintained this plane. They found these issues as they were fixing the #3 cylinder. This airplane needs more than an engine overhaul.

ok

I think some of y'all don't understand old-guy humor.

Yep

Thanks for watching.

Airplane costs are more than cars, so you are right.

Doubtful it ever will, limp home is not a good mode at rotation.

Why would you need a VTEC when airplane engine operates at a very small range of power setting. VTEC is for automobile that operates from idle to WOT and back time after time. If the automobile operates at 75% - 100%, then VTEC is a waste of mechanical complexity.

No

ok

N74087

Grumman Pilots. “Thanks”

It was

See A&P

Nice to know

It is why the cylinder last most compression, broke while running.

Low flying yes.

Yes a design flaw but if you fly it alot not really an issue with no sitting.

Yes

Yes

OK

OK

Good to know

with your Money Right

New owner did, see video

Yep

Cables were fine, engine now overhauled.