D&D 5e - Thats NOT how Perception works 

True!!

plot twist: wisdom is their dump stat and they have no proficiency in perception

Only if their passive perception exceeds their stealth rolls

@@krissybaglin9206 I mean, he WAS trying to roll perception for things in the room. I say he gets a roll to perceive the guards coming. It's not like he was busy investigating anything. =D

His PP was to low

well they HAD to dump one stat to make it fair

​@@BirdCyclops If someone is playing a low-INT character you can add to the roleplay by not correcting their errors before you play out their actions.

Y-you mean wisdom right? Or are you making a joke. "No no you see, I make an intelligence investigation check. Because I need to use my intelligence to put things together" "That's wisdom. In D&D wisdom represents intuition, rather than crystallised knowledge. The people who made D&D were high and decided to give the knowledge bit to intelligence for some godforsaken reason. Just pretend their meanings are switched if it helps" "Oh interesting. Anyway, what species is this plant? I'm very wise about such things so..."

This could also be a high INT score as well. But she's so smart that she constantly overanalyzes and overthinks everything

@@sploofmcsterra4786 intelligence is your knowledge/memory, logical thinking, and reasoning, wisdom is your insight, perceptiveness and how attuned to the world you are. Insight, in this case, means your pure feelings; how you feel on something. Its your gut feeling on a situation in isolation, whereas if you are putting information together (logical thinking and reasoning) that is intelligence. To give a computer analogy, wisdom is your inputs- your mice, your microphone, camera, and intelligence is your cpu and hard drive. Wisdom in dnd has nothing to do with the real world definition and the real world definition is more accurately represented by proficency bonus. From the DMG: "A character with a high Wisdom but low Intelligence is aware of the surroundings but is bad at interpreting what things mean. The character might spot that one section of a wall is clean and dusty compared to the others, but he or she wouldn’t necessarily make the deduction that a secret door is there. In contrast, a character with high Intelligence and low Wisdom is probably oblivious but clever. The character might not spot the clean section of wall but, if asked about it, could immediately deduce why it’s clean. Wisdom checks allow characters to perceive what is around them (the wall is clean here), while Intelligence checks answer why things are that way (there’s probably a secret door)."

i have a feeling i would have ACTUALLY worked on these guys...

And if they have good enough persuasion they can say "No I didn't do it, you did it"

@@realdragon That would be deception. You are deceiving someone into believing something that isn't true. "you use persuasion when acting in good faith" (Player's Handbook 179). Lying is not acting in good faith. "deception can encompass everything from misleading others through ambiguity to telling outright lies" (Player's Handbook 178).

@@thewonderfullymadejaraid7015 Ok but I want to persuade them into believing the lie I made

@@realdragon that is deception. Knowingly "persuading" someone into believing a lie is the definition of deception. "telling outright lies" is deception.

"Oh, so Arca--" "NO"

‘I’d like to perceive that flower Shmeebus is holding’ ‘Ah, so nature’ ‘No…no…’

One 'observes' history. Observation is sight based... Therefore you perceive history. Legit check!

No, I want to check the runes for any kind of hint to say what it means. So investigat- *shut*

You see the details. If only you decided to use a skill that would tell you what the details mean.

Shatter: little Billy BECOMES jam

Deception: It's not billy, it's jam. And I didn't do anything. - Guards leave.

@@DerGruenschnabel Sleight of hand: Mix the Shattered Billy with actual Jam in secrecy

Objection! You can LICK the blood to perceive whether it's indeed blood or if it's jam 😉

Religion: Sacrifice Billy to the Jam gods.

Wouldn't that be Investigation?

@Karak Dalík I think it'd be investigation if they were looming for something in particular

5e players would be really upset right now if they knew how to read.

@@Exuinexe nuclear launch detected!

Unless they're looking it up while they're playing, that'd be a history check, or mayyybe intelligence at DM's discretion...

Reverse engineered perception into stealth, of course, classic trick

Roll advantage on stealth

@@Squeekysquid That's my headcanon on how hell works, actually.

The secret to flying is to throw yourself at the ground, and miss. -Douglas Adams

Too blind to see your organs on the floor

this is kind of sad and true :/

@@mirageowl sad?

@@rednidedni3875 @rednidedni3875 I personally didn't enjoy the overuse of perception back in PF1e, so I kind of liked the Investigation checks in D&D. In 2e they merged even Sense Motive to be an action using perception. It solved the issue(?) of people overfocusing on perception on character creation but doesn't seem to affect the use of it in-game.

@@mirageowl It makes perception often used, yeah. But that's not a problem if it's just a basic stat instead of a skill you have to spec into.

Yeah, man, people really don't perceive the little things. Our perceptions are so narrow. Good on you for that perception.

perception makes sense in literally every skill, stealth- have to look where to go, history- have to be able to see what is relevant to remember it.

It's so hard to be sneaky in Pathfinder 2E because of that. Everyone has high perception because it is now tied to initiative.

@@Zthewise gotta just beat a fixed perception DC. And if they try to search for you, its their roll vs your DC. If you're specializing in stealth, you should be able to keep up with a creature that specializes in perception. The way stealth works, a failure actually still maintains some degree of stealth too. You might have your position known, but you still count as unseen, which still keeps it from being a total failure.

I mean it really depend from what the games is about, there is no wrong answer just different game design. In a combat heavy game, where investigation and social encounter are sparse, splitting perception into three skills could make those skills bad investment, reuniting the skills under one solve that problem, but in a court intrigue it might be the opposite having a skill capable of doing so much will make it mandatory and overpowered. Perception isn't even a skill in other systems, it is a base attribute like strength or charisma. This doesn't just apply to perception in a court intrigue do you really need different skill for weapons, maybe just one is enough. And using persuasion for nearly everything might be overpowered so maybe you could split it between persuading with emotion, and convincing with logics. Maybe getting people to like you might even be a different skill too.

@@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977 If you stare at something long enough, it'll eventually get done. That's what I always tell myself, at least.

Only if you are a beholder.

No, but you could do it with insight (and some creativity)

@@Norwyn Would being a beholder increase my charisma score? No? Because beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

@@EdKolisMaybe, but in which eye?

I think that's called intimidation

Pathfinder players stop being cool and based challenge (impossible)

i was looking for this comment, lol

Don't you mean you don't *perceive* the problem? ;D

Then maybe you need more perception

As a fellow GM I had these discussions about a million times over multiple editions, too. And after we tell them "no" it's always how we cockblock them from having fun -.-

I think a case COULD be made for using acrobatics (not just dex, but acrobatics proficiency specifically) for jumping. Like, an alternate rule could be cobbled together for it, not that its necessarily easier or a gimmie. Maybe make them make a higher DC check or make more checks, translate it to less feat traveled than strength does, something like that.

@@SolarFlairIsBestPony My issue with that is in 5E Strength is already considered weaker than Dexterity. Dex can be used for AC and Initiative. Dex Saves are by far the most common saving throw. And Dex has 3 skills (plus thieves' tools) while STR only has Athletics. So by letting someone use acrobatics instead of athletics then suddenly the only STR skill in the game becomes weaker.

​@@J_BiggityBar add more enemies that grapple, or large objects that could be used to gain an advantage, like rolling a big boulder through a bandit camp to knock their numbers down before engaging, it's all dependant on the scenario, yeah, strength is gonna be next to useless for solving a murder mystery, but if there's a big fucking rock, you're not gonna acrobatics it away, using acrobatics for a jump is just logical, and not allowing that breaks immersion in my opinion

@@J_BiggityBar I`d just let them make a Strenght (Acrobatic) check. If their character is very acrobatic it makes sense for them to parkour they way, instead of bruteforcing it.

And if he's looking for his mistakes that's investigation

ive done one on intimidation already! but i might do another if i find a different funny take one it :D

I've always thought it was due to the persuasive part of intimidation. Anybody could be scary, but to cause a specific effect from your fear requires careful communication. Unless you're in combat and just what to make them run away, in which case I swap Cha with Str or Dex

Goliath: "H-Hey, I'm a, I'm a big scary...guy....and I'll, uh, hit you? I swear, I'll do it. Believe me." Gnome: *stares into your soul* "May all the Gods have mercy on your hemorrhaged soul if you make me so much as lift my wrist. (Also, I have your browser history.)"

Characters with high charisma seem more daring, more willing to take risky actions...even when they actually aren't. A big strong guy is clearly physically able to punch your face off, but you can't be sure he'd actually be brave or stupid enough to do it just because you aren't doing what he asked you to do. That takes hutzpah! It takes bravado! It takes a certain je-ne-sais-quoi! In short, it takes...charisma!

The basic books themselves make a case for helping out here. I think it might be the DMG, but I forget. Intimidation is literally the example given, with strength being the substitute. Basically, if it makes sense, the DM might very well allow it. Just, like, be aware of how you're intimidating. Looming, lifting, et cetera, pretty muscle boy stuff. But threats? Ehhh... maybe, but pretty 'charisma'-y. Another example I bet you could make a case for is Wisdom for various intelligence skills, depending on what you want to know. If you just want to know if something is safe or dangerous Wisdom is pretty good at interpreting the meaning of symbols and phrasing even without deep knowledge.

Well....that would arguably be perception or investigation, but never strength.

I mean...investigation could theoretically do that

i percibe my life coming to an end and then i percibe it not actually happening and i dont die

@@BirdCyclops "I percieve myself getting rich and ripped and owning an awesome castle where a million servants do everything for me." "I percieve you looking drunk as hell rn, man. Put the bottle down already and shut up."

thank you so much!!

@@BirdCyclops I would also like to know if you have any covers of your songs in a channel! I watched most of your D&D Stories(I love them! Can we have more c:?) and the songs at the end just fire!

@@skoomad i remember making a playlist with all the songs and cover videos ive made! should be on the playlist list on my channel!

@@BirdCyclops Yeah, I found it and it's great! But I also thought that there may be your covers on a songs like El loco or Tan Solo, which you put at the end of your vids

It is also used to search around.

20/20 stars

yeah! when it comes to PF2e at least i think perception is everything in here, although in dnd 5e perception, initiative, insight and investigation are all separate skills!

its a great sequel but the team got so WOKE, whats next? pee pee poo poo WOMAN???

Perception is good for quickly knowing when new videos are uploaded so you can watch them!

@@BirdCyclops that sounds more like a “subscription check” to me.

@@Nazo-kage on youtube those are done with a d100!

Nah I have 300 hours on WotR and I personally prefer perception as a catchall skill

typical 5e player you mean. Despite PF2e perception doubling as both investigation and insight. but PF2e perception is class based and not a trainable skill

I have told my players this a million times and they still think in videogame terms. Stop telling me you want to roll for x, just tell me what you want and I will call for a roll, if needed.

some players (at least in my table) have favorite skills that they always look forward to using jajja