Regarding the first part - your Dad is very against oral tradition, but when I was Graham Hancock's researcher I interviewed an academic from Canada (for his book Underworld) who dived off the Queen Charlotte islands and found a landscape IDENTICAL to that recorded in an indigenous (Haida) myth, which had flooded 12000 years ago. Oral tradition had preserved the exact layout of the flooded landscape - this convinced me that oral tradition CAN survive that long.
Studies done on human memory were done on modern, normal humans who don't need to remember things in detail. They should do a study on people who are experts at recollection. People in the past had to remember everything. They trained to remember, and they repeated it until they did. There may have been some drift over thousands of years, there may have been a lot. But to dismiss people whose whole deal was remembering based on our stupid, squishy brains is a false syllogism. We are the same physically, but we are not equivalent. Test a bunch of random humans at running long distances, and you'll see that we suck at it. But test somebody properly conditioned, and you'll find them to be the best endurance runners on the planet. How we train our bodies and minds matters.
Before modern times (where we have information at our fingertips, get taught to absorb factoids instead of actually learning, television, and 3 second attention spans), the human mind was trained differently. Oral tradition before our times was far more accurate. Thousands of years accurate.
@@WolfintheMeadow … plus a tradition structure that included expert panels that corrected any confusion an ancient bard might create because memory loss or embellishment. The ancient Sumerians told the flood and Ark story in the first recorded language. This story morphed somewhat as it was handed down to descendant cultures, but remained the same core story for nearly 6000 years. This rate of morphing is a good known reference to compare with the rate of change of Plato’s prehistory story from thousands of years earlier
It's so strange Jahana that your father who is younger than me or the same age (1968) that he's very stucked in the manestream history that they tell still today Ower children! Since my first history lesson when I was 13 I felt sick because of it felt so wrong that since than I start to dive into this topic and still am. I could see that you get annoyed some moments that of your dad's manestream thinking. For many mainstreamed people who watched this they opened may be there eyes. I know you because of Jimmy that I follow many years. I love your video's. Keep the good work .And your trip with brien forester will widened your view even so much more. The next trip I hope I can come to ... Jan van schil,Antwerp/Belgium. My aka Spacebike 68. 😉🙏💜
As a father myself, I love that your father respects his daughter so much that he challenges and counterpoints your position. True debate. Well done. You're a fortunate lady to have such a good man for your dad.
It sounds like your dad is looking for every reason to not believe in Atlantis and funnily enough, I'm on the fence myself, but it's looking more and more like it's a legitimate place.
Her dad's attitude is the same one of Troy. 'oh that didn't exist, because the consensus is' blablabla.... until some smug decided to follow up on what the 'myth' said and found Troy. True, it wasn't really archeology as we know now, going over an area with a broomstick dusting things off... no he went in there 19 century style, with bulldozers. (figurative speech but you get the idea)
You've got that wrong, because she's working back from her conclusion that Atlantis existed, and there is no evidence for it, and archaeology works on evidence and there is none, so dad is correct.
To her dad, I wish I could ask this question, Why seek consensus when you are careful to not be in a religion? Consensus is the definition of being in a religion. Yes people find what they're looking for... But they also do not find what they are not looking for.
He's name calling others as wacko (ie. He wouldn't want to be labeled as one himself) and is waiting for scientific consensus.. let this inform you on where he's coming from, and who is the one that has a biased belief here. Name calling is a huge turnoff for me and tells me a lot about a person, and their attachment to being right or accepted by a group or sheds light at their identify
I think people get to caught up with the name "ATLANTIS" and then forget the part that all the evidence points to an ocean fairing civilization with Astronomy, Archeology, Geology, etc... just in general a whole age of people that sites around the globe point to existing that were waved of as myth for the last hundreds of years. Love both parts so far and needed to comment! Thank you!
Atlantis nesos (Timaeus 25d) -- this gadget doesn't have Greek font so you're gonna have to trust me -- does not mean "The island of Atlantis." It means the Atlantic Shoreline, and the judges will accept the Atlantic Facade (a term the learned Professor Barry Cunliffe employs). The Peloponnesos, ie, Pelop's Nesos, is not now nor has it ever been an island therefore Pelop's Nesos cannot mean Pelop's Island -- can it? It means Pelop's shoreline. The Atlantic shoreline, then as now, is greater in extent than Asia as Herodotus says. It includes Senegal, Morocco, Spain & Portugal, Brittany, Cornwall & Wales, Ireland, Scotland & Orkney, Norway, Denmark, Greenland, North and South America, even the Falklands. This really shouldn't be arguable any more. Things do get lost in translation though, don't they? It allows dissenters to make much ado about nothing and in this case a massive distraction from making any proper progress into the past.
Even if Atlantis was purely fictional on Plato's part, I refuse to believe that modern day humans could have been around so long without building some sort of civilization ( or civilizations) before now.
Yes, I think it's a bit arrogant to think that "we" were humans for 100 thousand years, just barely surviving, and then suddenly in last couple of hundreds years became engineering geniuses and - whoosh! to the stars!
I think the story is an embellishment of an oral tradition that was past down about what was remembered of a long lost civilization that had many civilizing knowledges that helped reboot civilization from the brink of return to absolute caveman days. The Younger Dryas Comet event was a near extinction level event for humans and every other living thing. A whole list of animals did go extinct at this time as well.
@@julia061174 I get what you are saying, but about 70,000 years ago the Toba volcano blew up and nearly wiped out humanity. So that was a reset if there was anything much in the way of civilization beforehand. And there are a lot of people who are still living in conditions pretty close to the stone age -- the Amazon and the Arctic come to mind -- because there are not many people and the environment is so sustainable there's still enough food to live as a hunter-gatherer and survive quite well. Don't get me wrong. I want Atlantis to be real, but I can see where humans could have hung out on the globe for 350,000 years before they started building cathedrals.
@@ty9884 this ignores the fact that from the accepted date of the building of the Pyramids to walking on the moon is 5,000 years. Even if there was a reset before, that doesn't mean we didn't build civilization. Hell, there could have been several resets. 350,000 years is 70 multiples of the time it took us to go from ancient Egypt, to walking on the moon.
they found remains of a city about 10km off the coast of India bout 10 years ago...this they think may be the ancient city of Dwarka, which was considered a legendary city... Dwarka was rebuilt where it is today..
The reason Atlantis remains undiscovered, I feel, is because we're looking for the wrong thing(s). NOBODY has the slightest idea what existing in that time period would involve. I personally feel like they'd've been far more advanced that us, possibly living with entirely different abilities than we blindly assume. Telepathy, for starters, would explain SO much!
The dynamic between you guys is amazing to watch, it warms my heart to see. I believe you were a "daddys girl" growing up, because i can see that you love him to death. Thank you so much for uploading this, and you should give your daddy some credits for raising you in the right way. Very very interesting talk between you two, lots of information from both sides you may have swayed me a little bit more towards your side in all of this as well! Edit: im so going to subscribe to your dads channel!
Holy crap, let her talk lol! Responding to someone immediately (especially cutting them off) is a sign that they are NOT thinking about what the other is saying but only focusing on what they want to interject with.
Thank you!!!! I'm over here reading the comments, feeling like I must have watched something completely different then everyone else? Like the people saying that they "love how he listens to her with respect" and "patience"?? Where?? Legitimately, where? Where does he listen, much less show respect or patience? Because the second she steps out of speculation, and tries to show or even prove the sources behind a single piece of this puzzle of proof that has been amassed - she can't get a single word in over the (ever louder) "Yep yep yep yep... none of this credible proof [that she is trying desperately to show him, for the millionth time in a row] exists though...." LET HER TALK. 🙃
Except they both constantly interject each other....... It's exactly how a discussion between me and my dad would go. Not exactly a good formal debate with opening statements. But just throwing as much evidence at the other person as you can. Idk, maybe you have formal discussions with your parents where you are allowed to develop your arguments. But that's not how people in informal settings usually discuss this type of stuff. ;) They constantly interject if they think they have a gotcha or disagree with the argument. That's how normal people have conversations. smh Please check if your side is not doing the exact same thing as the other side you're trying to paint as dogmatic. Kinda weakens your whole argument. ;)
Historically, about 75-85% of humans have lived within a few miles of water (ocean, lake, river). Consequently, there would be many settlements 400’ down below the ocean surface.
The story does have an interesting logic to it, and I love how often it says in both the Critias and Timaeus "I know this sounds like a crazy myth but I swear it's true." And STILL today people are like naaaaah it's a myth you damn trickster. "while the fact that it is no fictitious tale, but a true story, is surely a great point." - Socrates "Strange though it be, is yet perfectly true." - Critias CRITIAS: Let me tell you this story then, Socrates. It’s a very strange one, but even so, every word of it is true. It’s a story that Solon, the wisest of the seven sages once vouched for. This bit from Solon's discussion with the Egyptian priest brings up things that are totally plausible. ‘Ah, Solon, Solon, you Greeks are ever children. There isn’t an old man among you.’ On hearing this, Solon said, ‘What? What do you mean?’ ‘You are young,’ the old priest replied, ‘young in soul, every one of you. Your souls are devoid of beliefs about antiquity handed down by ancient tradition. Your souls lack any learning made hoary by time. The reason for that is this: There have been, and there will continue to be, numerous disasters that have destroyed human life in many kinds of ways. The most serious of these involve fire and water, while the lesser ones have numerous other causes. And so also among your people the tale is told that Phaethon, child of the Sun, once harnessed his father’s chariot, but was unable to drive it along his father’s course. He ended up burning everything on the earth’s surface and was destroyed himself when a lightning bolt struck him. This tale is told as a myth, but the truth behind it is that there is a deviation in the heavenly bodies that travel around the earth, which causes huge fires that destroy what is on the earth across vast stretches of time. When this happens all those people who live in mountains or in places that are high and dry are much more likely to perish than the ones who live next to rivers or by the sea. Our Nile, always our savior, is released and at such times, too, saves us from this disaster. On the other hand, whenever the gods send floods of water upon the earth to purge it, the herdsmen and shepherds in the mountains preserve their lives, while those who live in cities, in your region, are swept by the rivers into the sea. But here, in this place, water does not flow from on high onto our fields, either at such a time or any other. On the contrary, its nature is always to rise up from below. This, then, explains the fact that the antiquities preserved here are said to be the most ancient. The truth is that in all places where neither inordinate cold nor heat prevent it, the human race will continue to exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. Now of all the events reported to us, no matter where they’ve occurred-in your parts or in ours-if there are any that are noble or great or distinguished in some other way, they’ve all been inscribed here in our temples and preserved from antiquity on. In your case, on the other hand, as in that of others, no sooner have you achieved literacy and all the other resources that cities require, than there again, after the usual number of years, comes the heavenly flood. It sweeps upon you like a plague, and leaves only your illiterate and uncultured people behind. You become infants all over again, as it were, completely unfamiliar with anything there was in ancient times, whether here or in your own region. And so, Solon, the account you just gave of your people’s lineage is just like a nursery tale. First of all, you people remember only one flood, though in fact there had been a great many before. "I have just told you, remarking how by some miraculous coincidence most of your account agreed unerringly with the description of Solon"
Jahanna, I just wanted to mention that over a decade ago, I was doing similar research and found over 30 references from different societies in many different parts of the world about the great flood and the atlantic isles. If I'm ever able to find my notes I will post again with details.Over fourty five years of research have led me to question a great deal of the common thinking about deep history. But with young researchers like yourself we have a chance to break the old paradigm and see the past in a new light. Good hunting.
I believe 2 things after watching this pair of videos. 1. Plato was probably embellishing, but not nearly as much as most people think. 2. You and your dad are freakin' adorable while interacting together.
I almost posted this exact same idea. It would also make sense how people living at Gobekli Tepe could have both land armies and naval ships fight an opposing city at the Richat structure in Mauritania. I think they had settled the canary islands also. Ten colonies it's supposed to have. And I think the tower of the gods ruins in Fiji make it one of the other colonies.
What a pair you are! This was an immensely enjoyable conversation and I genuinely think you should have a podcast with Dad. I don't know if either of you would even have time for such a thing, but I for one think that would be very successful. Would love to see more Dad Debates at least. Good show!...hmmm, that's not a bad name for podcast
Your dad has a good point about where is the material, cultural evidence/diffusion (which, as someone with a master’s degree in archaeology, I very much appreciate). It is in this light that the prehistoric megalithic circles become very interesting, as they are all over the northwest coast of Europe, many times in areas that were sparsely populated (e.g. the Orkneys).
Most likely to humble his people and the politicians of his city and time. Letting them know that no matter how powerful an empire can be it can crumble in a day and night.
Thank you Johanna for doing these 2 w your Pops! So refreshing. Reminded me if my Daughter and I's debates about similar topics. You will bring your Dad to the light... eventually haha. Love allllll your content I have seen so far. Love ya!
I love the energy and enthusiasm you bring to your historical explorations(!), as well as your dad's insights and support -- bravo to you both! The best stories are built on a kernel of truth. Here, IMO, Plato was trying to redeem himself in his writing after his post-Syracuse exile. Quick background: Years before the Atlantis dialog, Plato wrote The Republic largely as a job-application for a plumb job with the poor youth-king of Syracuse.* It worked (as far as getting a job goes). Plato was hired as the Philosopher to advise the King (the dual-role Plato envisioned). But, Plato ran into a "little problem" -- the king didn't like his advice and eventually sentenced Plato to many years of house arrest. Plato, upon returning to Athens in his last years, was, again IMO, trying to redeem his failed Republic experiment by delivering a story which, as its point in context is: "my experiment failed but the ideas behind it were and are sound." Plato's point was that his ideas failed, 'but they were noble -- almost perfect -- but only if not for that little king!' In other words "it's not *my* fault!" 🙂 * they are so similar that one wonders why Plato didn't use the Atlantis story to support his thesis for The Republic(?). Here's the Kernel of truth behind the story: Egypt: The markings on the Temple at Edfu to indeed describe the land rising after a great deluge (one of four primary Egyptian origin stories). In this specific story, the Followers of Horus arrived in Egypt (Abydos) from an ancient island (however that island ROSE from the depths). This story very much parallels the old path from what we call The Book of the Dead. Here's the cool part: you can trace the locks on the traveling path back in time and geography down the Red Sea, around the Arabian Peninsula and to an ancient island ... which today we call Bahrain (and the Sumerians grouped into a story of "the land of Dilmun", of which Bahrain is the only remaining island). It's where the Hero Gilgamesh ends up after meeting with Utnapishtim). Tying the above back into the flood and the story at Edfu, one can imagine the primordial mound rising from the flood, unusable, and the survivors fleeing home to settle in a land we now call Egypt (PS: there are glyphs of the trip on canyon rocks in several of the Eastern Egyptian wadis). The story on the Temple at Edfu, and The Book of the Dead leading back to Sumer are further supported by the earliest temples -- for example, the step-pyramid (Zoser) is surrounded by temples with Sumerian flower and plant motifs, and some temples even match in their stone construction drawings from Sumer of reed-constructed buildings. Also, the nich-wall-type construction in late Sumerian/early Egyptian construction are practically identical in form and proportions. Source: Origins, by David Rohl Please read it. You and your dad will thank me 🙂
Yess it's all in cycles! Sacred Geometry! It's happening again Now Atlantis Rising/Shambhala/ The Blue Mother! These waves of Blue Energy we all are experiencing now will lead to these truths! 🙏💙
Another great video Jahannah, your father is about my age early 50's and alot of tales have been told and we have heard and read many of them. There is so much undiscovered past that will blow our minds that is buried under where we walk every day. Atlantis I do believe existed somewhere near the Azores and was sunken due to earthquakes and tectonic plates shifting causing huge tsunamis. I like to think that our past and the time we live in today will someday reunite. There are just too many coincidences with what archaeologists are uncovering linking our past with present day life. Thank you dad and Jahannah for opening our minds to Plato's interpretation of Atlantis. Great debate! 💙❤
Big fan Johanna...It has been a blast listening to you and your father... there's a ton of love there that is obvious...not sure who won this debate but with all the respect in the world due to Dad; I couldn't help but hear "show me the pot shards". LoL. love the work, don't stop
Really enjoyed this! It’s been fun watching you learn and seeing your Dad I can see why! Neither of you mentioned Sumer? I know it doesn’t have a direct Atlantis myth that I know of, but it clearly says the Annunaki arrived. If the Annunaki were worldwide, couldn’t they have been the original inhabitants of Atlantis?
Eyyyy your Dad is really cool! He cares about your project a bunch! My Paps likes to talk but won’t care on other opinion - seeing such a healthy synergy is inspiring!
Scientists do not question things that they consider closed; when the continent of Lemuria was suggested as an explanation of the presence of lemurs in India and Madagasgar, and nowhere between, it was feasible. But then plate tectonics was proven and it was dismissed because continents don't sink. However, at that point, we did not know that the sea had risen due to melting ice at the end of the iceage. This has not been revisited. Similarly, when the Sphinx was dated to at least 9,000 years B.C.E in the 90s, via water erosion, the ONLY counterargument was that it was impossible because no human civilization existed at the time capable of doing it. We now know this is wrong, people existed who could do it at the time. But the Sphinx has not been revisited. History and archeology are massively vested in the current orthodoxy because if they're wrong, they're wrong about basically everything. It makes them all idiots. Edit: To be clear, I don't necessarily believe in Lemuria, but the reason it was originally dismissed is somewhat moot.
@@mver191 Sure, it's probably older. That's just about the youngest it can be. The water erosion is clear; wind and sand erosion looks completely different, they're horiztontal for starters. And the patterns on and around the Spinx are veritcal, and again, very clearly from water. As I said, the only genuine argument against the geological evidence was that there wasn't anybody about to carve it at that time, but as been proven by discovered in Turkey... that's not true.
@@mver191 Yes, I'm sure they supplied the equivalent of thousands of years of rainfall that ran in specific rivulets, and that in a desert, the priests were all about transporting all the necessary millions of litres the roughly 6 miles and 500 feet up hill to do it. Incredibly plausible. And then, they poured it in such a way - just onto the bedrock mind you, not in any channels - that it specifically ran down the face of the rock in a pattern that specifically matched rainfall. There is a reason that when the rain-dating was proposed, nobody used this as a counter - because even Egyptologists couldn't justify that level of nonsense. You understand that at the proposed orthodox dating of the Sphinx, the Sahara was already bone-dry beyond the green of the delta? That the Giza Plateau is a plateau? As in, up high? And that the Nile doesn't run over it, but is miles away? All these theories around water that people are proposing require either more work than actually building a pyramid, or they require techniques and technology that were not invented for thousands of years. So take your pick, either the Egyptians were thousands of years more advanced that is proposed, or the Sphinx is older.
Thanks Jahannah and Andrew. A refreshing and entertaining take on Atlantis. I have never seen both sides of the debate argued with such passion AND respect. Keep 'em coming 🙂
I believe there was an Atlantean nation. As for the mythology of advanced technology, maybe, maybe not... But Robert Sepher makes a pretty good argument from an anthropological perspective.
I enjoy his work, I just hate to see other creators on YT review his work and call him racist and W. S. for his views, even though he references everything he talks about. You just can't break some people away from what makes them feel comfortable.
I could be wrong, but my understanding is there are flood stories from ALL OVER THE WORLD. And when you look at the stories they correspond to the same time frames. And when you compare it to the geologic record, where you can see damage from flooding/tsunami activity - then that makes it a stronger association. I think if we look more closer under the water, I think we'll find more evidence.
This is great content! Original, funny and interesting on several levels. PS: I'm firmly in camp dad, but I do find fun and engaging presentations of myths to be good entertainment as well.
Many myths were the way ancient peoples tried to explain the world. Just because their explanation sounds silly, doesn't mean the world they were trying to explain didn't exist.
I love this, you should make this like a thing of your channel. I learned so many things from both sides, thank you! One little tip, wear headphones to minimise you two talking over eachother ♥️
Resources for people who have a oral story of this place: The basque people have an origin story of Coming from an island called "Atlanitcas" that was sunk very quickly. The Maya have a story of coming from an island with beautiful gardens, and perfect beaches, rich in gold, and silver. Not sure what they called it. But they talk about it. The berber people also have an origin story about an island that was sunk. Weird thing is, all of them put this island in the middle of the Atlantic. Look at Robert Sephyr, and research Atlantis origin stories from tribal people.
He’s a stubborn one that one! But, it’s good he isn’t just a yes man to you. I think you’ll push each other to unearth every spec of supporting evidence known or as yet unknown to man. As always, your passion is captivating.
That was one of the best video's I have watched on YT. I had read, long ago, that a tribe of people on the Yucatan peninsula were called Aztlan and had claimed to have descended from now submerged islands. Also the Basque people claim similar heritage.
Just read the chapters of a book that describe the sinking of 'Atlantis' (which was just the main city), although the whole civilization, including colonies at that Tech level were called the same. It does mention the appearance of a comet. tectonic plate movement, earthquakes, eruptions, tidal waves, why it happened etc. It describes the 'shoals of mud' afterwards, which JJ's Dad picked up on in Part 1, & how it impeded sailors of later generations.
Thirty years ago I'd have believed your dad...today not so much. Finding Gobekli Tepe and getting a better understanding of The Younger Dryas has moved Atlantis into the realm of "possibility". The people of 9000 BC were capable of some pretty amazing things, imagine building such intricate massive structures while having to hunt for dinner...makes sailing and living on an island kids play.
I'm in your camp Jahannah, and I want to believe in the whole story of Atlantis which made it all the more annoying when your dad was making perfect sense at times! Would love to see more of these!
Round 1, Johanna. Round 2, Johanna. Johanna 2 - Dad 0. 🥊 I love your curious disposition, and willingness to think outside the box, which I'm sure dad had a lot to do with, perhaps he needs to take a page from your book and loosen the bonds of academia. I'm sure he would find it freeing. I'm not an academic, but even I've heard Atlantis sunk in the middle of the ocean. Love to you both. Keep bringing the debates!
I hope you and your dad do this on many megalithic structures and places. Very fun BUT then I do like most all your shows you do. I feel you have a great career in all this megalithic subjects a head of you Jahannah!
I agree with you on everything except the trident thing, I think they were energy-resonating devices used by them, they're depicted in ancient Indian statues as well
I agree. I don't like the three peak trident thing either. There's no way I can see that someone on a boat would have been able to see all three peaks at the same time. Google Earth shows its 200km between the first and third peak. They're just too far apart. Of course, if you were cruising around in a crystal space ship or if the world was flat, you could have a chance :)
So... gotta admit, I never realized we didn't have Greek history that backed up the Greek side of the story. I'd suggest that most people don't even consider looking because they believe it is a long established fact. Great points all around though. I enjoy how passionate and evidence based your videos are. Enjoy your adventures into the past and I'll catch ya next vid. Found you because of Brien Foerster's vids, super cool guy.
Another thing to consider is that because the Azors are at the center of 3 tectonic plates, there is likely to be a lot more tectonic activity in the area. So while these "islands" have been underwater for 12 thousand years, they've been presented with some of the most hard oceanic conditions on the planet.
A possible site for Atlantis: drowned high & lowlands in front of Morocco's west coast. Under the sand, the shapes of many city states in an area larger than Morocco. After a tectonic plate collision, that side went down and the other up, probably.
Complete admiration for the fact you hosted someone with a different take on the topic of Atlantis than yours. Nicely done. Shows your effort to maintain intellectual honesty & your conviction. And your dad brought some very interesting points to the discussion I'd never heard or considered before, like where any other historical references to Atlantis are. I assume you know Robert Sepehr and his other RU-vid channel Atlantean Gardens. An anthropologist, he explores Atlantis extensively and addresses other cultures with a great flood and peoples who migrated to South America & other places and became the rulers of the indigenous peoples.
14:51 i like how they've named the "Cruiser Seamount" (presumably) due to its side profile looking quite like that of a WW2 cruiser battleship or 'battle cruiser'.
I've always thought the azores plateau was the most likely candidate simply because of its location - exactly out from the pillars of hercules, just like Plato said, and 'Atlantis' being in the middle of the 'Atlantic' just works too neatly in my brain - not that that really means much.
Well, the Atlantic Ocean was named that precisely because the educated who were making maps would have known of Plato's works and named it after Atlantis.
i know its not really any of my business, but when i see the name Funny old world against the opening intro, i feel your name is so much nicer and even exciting
I haven't formed a real opinion on the topic yet but what videos! Very interesting and seemingly well informed. Atlantis may well be real but even if it isn't, many places (cities or civilisations) that were similar were bound to have existed.
Just love him. Cognitive dissonance is strong. Essentially your dad is saying it is an incredible coincidence that Plato told a story about an ancient civilization that died in a huge deluge out from the straights of Gibraltar when in fact there is evidence for a sunken land mass that was above ground at roughly the exact time that Atlantis existed & exactly in the same spot that Atlantis existed. Not to mention the map of Herodotus.
@UnderBridge Rock oh I'm not. At this point there is more evidence it existed than not. Can we say for certain? Of course not but neither can we deny the extraordinary circumstantial evidence.
@UnderBridge Rock “Name any evidence whatsoever . . . “ Sure, just keep in mind I said it was circumstantial. 1.) Plato spoke of an advanced civilization that existed out past the straights of Gibraltar 11,500 years ago the perished in a deluge. Low & behold, just outside the straights in the Atlantic are the Azores who’s now sunken land mass lays beneath the waves 2.) About 12,000 years ago the YD event occurred which would have definitely caused giant tsunamis & the Azores are not that far from Greenland where the YD event occurred. This fits precisely with the story that Atlantis perished in a single day & night as it sunk beneath the waves. 3.) The Azores are on top of 3 continental plates, a type of place where the land mass is known to rise & fall over time. The last known time was about 12,000 years ago. Again this fits nearly precisely with the time frame. 4.) Herodotus’ map of the known world includes the location of Atlantis or presumably the main city since Atlantis was actually a large kingdom. His location is about as precise as you can get with his knowledge of the world he had & the Richat structure. The Richat structure just so happens to have concentric rings just as the city of Atlantis was said to have had. Further there is ample evidence that area was mostly under the ocean at some time because of the massive salt deposits AND animal bones from sea creatures that litter the desert. Again, coincidence? 5.) To the north of the Richat structure are the Atlas mountains, Atlantis had mountains to the north of it. Coincidence? 6.) To the south of the Richat structure is what appears to be an opening to what would have been the ocean about 12,000 years ago, Atlantis had an opening to the south that lead into the ocean. Coincidence? 7.) The size of the concentric rings at the Richat structure are a near identical match to those said to be in Atlantis. Again, just a coincidence? 8.) The King of Atlantis at the time was named Atlas, the Mauritanians hold that in ancient times, there was a great king named Atlas that resided there & for whom the mountains were named after. 9.) In & around the Richat structure are a plethora of black & red stone deposits, again the stone work in Atlantis was said to be black & red. This is yet another coincidence. 10.) The Atlanteans were said to have used elephants & once again there is ancient drawings of elephants on the stones around the Richat structure. 11.) When viewed from satellites, it appears as though there was a great runoff of water from roughly where the Richat structure is to the Atlantic. All of these things have eerily parallel accounts in Plato, not to mention there is an actual map that precisely pin points Atlantis at the Richat structure, or at least the main city. There’s plenty more circumstantial evidence. Again, while none of this actually proves anything, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, & quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. No one may actually say that this is Atlantis, but to deny the amount of circumstantial evidence does indeed point to cognitive dissonance.
@UnderBridge Rock I think my favorite part of this conversation is when you called them a "delusional fluffier" or an idiotic dick sucker and proceeded to ask for proof then they kindly offered it amd them you followwd with yea well maybe she should go work for these other implied crazy tv channel or radio broadcast/podcast without any other ofference of a conversation. Classic youtube comments.
@@realherbalism1017 Cognitive dissonance works both ways. See how it can be used as a weapon against you? Your compilation of speculative circumstantial coincidences is intriguing but for the fact that Plato incorporated philosophical allegories and myths in many of his philosophical writings known as Platonic Dialogues. He presented his philosophical ideas in the form of philosophical conversations between characters discussing philosophy. Not history lessons. The Critias Dialogue (360 BC) is based on Plato's ideas of an ideal state / Utopian society -- primarily discussed in Plato's Republic (375 BC). The character Critias relates the story of Atlantis in response to a request by Socrates to hear about how an ideal state (Athens) interacted with other states (Atlantis - corrupt and imperialistic). Plato invented the story of the Ring of Gyges, the Allegory of the Cave and the Myth of Er -- just in The Republic alone -- to expound on his philosophical views. These myths are found only in Plato with no other recorded source in all of the annals of ancient civilizations. Same as Atlantis.
Your dad is lovely. I'm on the ancient wisdom side (that there was a land mass with seafaring people who could work with stone)...I also agree the library of Alexandria likely contained information and honestly once in a while I still remember that it was lost randomly and get depressed lol
I really enjoyed these arguments. Something that needs to be mentioned is oral traditions. Knowledge was Guarded and only the most trusted would be taught it. Masonry is taught by oral tradition and to move on one pass test, then they can learn more. All build’s together, and we only the top person knows the whole story. Plato could have just became top dog of some organization and spilled his guts over a drunken party.
regarding oral tradition: Gurdjieff in "Meetings With Remarkable Men" recounts about his father who was renowned ashok, how he found a translation of Gilgamesh which coincided exactly with his father's recitation of it. From this, he realized how ancient information might be transmitted.
Re: 21:45 "trident" = "tri" (three) + "dent" (teeth). The trident is also linked to the myth imagery of Cadmus casting the dragon's teeth into the land and indigenous warriors emerging to fight. Also linked to the mysteries of Samothrace, the use of sailing, mythological "allotments", Sanchuniathon's history of Phoenicia, and the story of Noah in Book III of Sibylline Oracles where Noah is called Kronos. I love mythology! ps Your dad is doing a great job throwing everything at you, and making you test your own ideas to him. I find that when you are scrambling to get your words your da is smiling at you - he's thrilled to do this with you.
Similarly to how the South of England is sinking, and the North is rising as the Greenland ice sheet melts, when the ice was on North America - it was a counter weight pushing up on the edge of the North American plate at the Canary Islands plate boundery with Africa and Europe - which similarly had a counter balance to push up on that place. When the Younger Dryas occurred - that moved the trillions of tons of weight from the center of the surrounding plates, to the center of the Atlantic Ocean - pushing *down* on the crust there.
Loved this so much. You guys made debate so fun and interesting, I learned so much. I actually think you have 2 parts of the same puzzle, I didn't know the Egypt origen story, it makes sense that Plato borrowed and embellished. My dad always says 'never let a few facts get in the way of a good story's Also I live in Australia and just visited the gosford glyphs, telling of the Egyptians that got stranded in Australia and one died from a snake bite! (Imagine that) they are so cool, but utterly neglected, and regarded as a hox, naturally, but deserve protection even if they are. love your work. 😍
I think the most fascinating evidence for Atlantis in the Azores is the stone temples which were there before it was discovered by the Portuguese. It's a shame your Dad didn't even acknowledge the literally solid evidence for a civilization in the area that predates the current accepted history.
Note to Dad: I hope that you remember that knowledge only progresses when we question everything we've been taught. Established facts are only ever provisional. Plato didn't have ground penetrating radar at his disposal -- only the general story he'd been told. There is a pretty good possibility that exploring the NW Adriatic coast might be a plausible location.
Excellent, I agree with your Dad that there’s more to discover underground in Greece, but even more in the Egypt, the primordial mound creation idea in Egypt suits “Atlantis” more than the Nile Valley, this story is not finished yet, thanks Jahanna to you and your Dad🙏🏼
@@FunnyOldeWorld Exactly! And this is a very important information because it bear many indications. Mathematic induction and deduction is very helpful in this case.
Actually, there were pyramid-building civilizations in South America that say they came from an island nation that was destroyed by a deluge. The Conquistadors burned all their writing, so now we mostly only have the oral traditions.
..One last thing.. My friend's 8 year old son asked him a great question and our answer was this: We can only dig up and find now, the things that those who came before us did not already find.. So, there may have easily been civilisations before the modern, recorded, currently-accepted timeline of civilisations... But, like Egypt - some much of the modern Egypt is built from the disregard or lack of documentation of the societies that came before it, that were broken and taken down, altered, eradicated and changed to suit a range of purposes, and repurposed and claimed -- we will never know what we have missed from the necessities of our ancestors that did what they did.. But, historically long-term sites were chosen/used/adopted for whatever that first reason was to choose it in the first place... Generally, food, water, heat, shelter, protection, longevity, sustainability and plentiful natural resources.. Then the organisation, power and greed and need messes everything up...
The topic of Atlantis is so fascinating and controversial. I think there is enough evidence to show there were many antediluvian civilization. The Earth goes through regular periodic catastrophes. Most ancient cultures have these kinds of stories. The truth proves itself stranger than fiction.
