Daenerys Targaryen’s Evil Advisors in the Winds of Winter (ASOIAF Theory) 

Jorah "where my hug at" Mormont is the funniest shit I've ever heard

she should get rid of her advisors and only listen to Azor Ahai, Ser Pounce, the only one capable of guiding this kingdom

Marwyn “Summerhall was an Inside Job” Themage being on Danys’ side is still such a funny thing to think about for me. I’m imagining a war council being convened and him chiming in at points with crackpot theories like how the Maesters are gonna try and turn her dragons gay

My favourite description of Daenerys’s turn in the Game of Thrones show is “she turned evil in the pre-episode catch up"

"I can't wait to see the interactions between Victarion and Daenerys. Can you imagine Victarion trying to rizz up Dany? Like, 'Hey baby! I heard you hate slavery, as it happens, me too. We have so much in common, haha!'"

Elsewhere someone commented how Dany might hate seeing Young Griff being honored among the Westerosi in the same way Viserys hated seeing Dany being honored among the Dothraki. I thought that was a nice parallel.

I think Tyrion will figure out Young Griff being a Blackfyre and will tell Daenerys about it. Just to watch King's Landing burn.

Great video Quinn! Also Jorah "Where my hug at" Mormont is the funniest line I have heard in a long time. Congrats on finishing your first year of law school!

Damn bro, that desert essentials of Fire and Blood section slapped, great wording

I think Tyrion's outlook shows that he's divorced himself from being "Tywin writ small". Tywin's identity was tied up in his house. That enabled him to take a more, "It's not personal. It's just business." attitude. Attacks on him were attacks on the power and prestige of his house. He acted on that basis. This whole thing is personal with Tyrion. He's more or less abandoned the advice he once gave Jon Snow. He's been slighted as a person and he wants revenge on everyone he thinks owes him. That is pretty much everyone in King's Landing.

One of my most anticipated character convergences is Dany/Tyrion/Marwen. I can't even imagine what exactly the meeting of Dany and Marwen or how he and Tyrion will react to each other. Oh wait, freaking Victarion, I knew I was forgetting someone. Seriously, can anyone predict how these POVs are going to go and what those interactions will be like?

I have been rereading GoT and some throwaway line caught my attention. Illyrio claims the Dragon Eggs he gives Dany were from Asshai. On first read you hear spooky shadow land and think nothing of it. But nearing the end of the book, Mirri Maz Duur shows up. She gains Dany's trust, kills the man who abused her and then died so that Dany's dragons could be born. Then a book later and a magic woman appears who is also from Asshai and suggests she has at least known of Dany. This same woman then uses magic to sway and push Dany in certain directions, showing up at or before key moments. Even showing up at the very end of Dance to tell Dany something important and remind her of why she is surviving. The spesific legend of Azor Ahai has it's origins in Asshai. Dragons are said to be from Asshai. There is said to be Dragons in the mountains by Asshai. Magic is returning to the world as Dany's dragons are born at the exact time when the Others are making big moves. Asshai is the capital of spooky magic. This isn't even mentioning the Red Priests in Essos that are all in on Dany being Azor Ahai. And we know where some of the Red Priests learned their magic. It would also partly explain Euron's obsession with Dany. Yes she has Dragons, but if Asshai have a grand plot to make Dany this prophecied figure, and Euron has been to Asshai... Honestly, i am sad we will never see Asshai in the main series if ever. Hopefully Mel has a flashback of some sort to it in her pov chapters. Anyways, this theory definitely could go much deeper. I'm sure someone has done something similar. But i am too busy with school to dig any deeper

its fucking wild how many different ways it feels like Danys story could go.

I really hope Quathe gets a more prominant role in tWoW. It would be interesting to see Danys small counsil consist of three magic users (Moqorro, Marwyn and Quaithe), and How it Would mirror her father almost exclusively taking advice from the pyromancers in his later reign.

I dont think GRRM will be all that interested in a fight between "villains" and "good guys", but between complex characters with realistic but contradictory motivations. Dany will not do a 180 and just go "mad" or "villainous", but will rather build on who she is and come into conflict with other characters that also have reasonable agendas from their point of view.

I think her destroying kings landing will be somewhat accidental. I think she’s going to burn the red keep with Aegon inside, setting off a chain reaction of wildfire set by Cersei destroying the city

Nah, advisors won't change Dany's heart. She started with Viserys, Illyrio, and Drogo. By comparison, they make Jorah, Mirri Maz Duur, Quaithe, Pyat Pree, and Xaro Xhoan Daxos look not even all that sketchy. Nor Daario Naharis, Brown Ben Plumm, Reznak mo Reznak, Skahaz mo Kandaq, Hizdahr zo Loraq, or Galazza Galare. Dany has kept her compassion the whole time. She forgot Hazzea's name (which upsets her), but not her complicity in the child's death. Her advisors constantly tell her to abandon her freedmen, ignore or give in to slavers, banish sick refugees, focus on conquering Westeros, etc. Dany always chooses to help the helpless, to the extent that she can. If anyone can make her ruthless, it's Drogon. But if Viserys, Illyrio, and Drogo couldn't make Dany evil, nothing will.

I think Dany will get framed as a villain just to to who her dad was, and any attack by her setting off the Wildfire.

I'd say Jorah's influence will probably come after arriving in Westeros. His father gave the family sword to Jon Snow, essentially calling him his heir. Of course, by this point Jeor was more a brother of the Watch than a member of House Mormont. However, that still may not sit well with Jorah.

What I really can’t wait for is when she visits kings landing. I can’t remember which chapter but there’s one moment she romanticizes the lands of Westeros. After having seen cities like Pentos, Quarth, and Meereen, to then see the most disgusting city in Westeros founded by her ancestors, is going to be a culture shock.

I think Danaerys's story will parallel Jon's in a lot of ways. And so I think both will have a point where they will do something morally questionable but understandable and then a point where they would cross the "moral event horizon" so to speak. Both have two contrasting ideals of their selfish wants (the Iron Throne for Dany and Winterfell for Jon) and noble goal (liberating the slaves for Dany and fighting against the Others for Jon). Thus I think these two characters will be set up to contrast with each other, but while both could "turn evil", Danaerys's bad influences and shift towards "Fire and Blood" makes it more likely for her in my opinion.

Adding to Dany's issues is that in addition to being a corrupting influence, her party is slowly morphing into the worst possible first impression to make. She has a bunch of Dothraki riders who are feared, three giant ass dragons that are going to incite even more fear, she is the daughter of the mad king, has Unsullied who definitely raise some eyebrows as a slave army (we know they follow her willingly but its not hard to frame her as having a slave army at her disposal), has an ironborn reaver as her master of ships, a guy who's most infamous for selling people into slavery in Jorah, someone seen as a kinslayer and a kingslayer in Tyrion, a disgraced Maester, and if everything goes well Barristan who's image is doing a lot of heavy lifting for Dany PR wise for the Westerosi. She somehow will come to Westeros with worse PR than Stannis who has a priestess who does human sacrifices. It won't be hard for people to turn the lords and smallfolk against Dany when she arrives because she essentially created a host out of their nightmares.

I don't think Dany will ever go full Mad Queen, but I do think she will become more ruthless and will do things that could be used against her by being described as "mad".

I would agree with you entirely, not just about the tragedy that was Game of Thrones, but also Dany’s arc going forward. It seems likely to me that her whole deal in Winds will be allowing her darker impulses to drive her, and pushing aside her desire for peace. I think it’s very important to consider the themes of her character and where her arc might be headed when considering her place in the story. She will certainly be surrounded be a large number of bad influences, and I am beyond certain this, combined with her newfound uncompromising attitude, will ultimately lead to tragedy and destruction (probably in King’s Landing). My personal thought is that her character will be far more nuanced than the show, and while King’s Landing will probably burn, it will not be the same ridiculous way it was in the show. A central motif of her character is the house with the red door (something the show didn’t touch on), and this vision of hers has been present since book one. In short, above all else (even the throne), she wishes for home. While I think Winds will take her down a dark path that culminates with the destruction of King’s Landing, I certainly don’t think that will be the end of her arc. In a meta sense, that just isn’t narratively compelling. Rather, I would guess she will walk through the ruins of the city and be forced to come to terms with her actions in a very brutal way. Perhaps in the end, she will redeem herself in some grand action against the Others. In the end, she wants home most of all, and I think that will be what drives her to redemption (in whatever manner that comes).

Dude.... THANK YOU. I have all the books on Kindle and I'm always rereading these chapters and the complexities of Mereen politics confuses the hell out me. Its like I need a chart or something and the World of Ice and Fire doesn't explain too much. Government and Politics of Essos 101 would be a great help

I'm something of a Jorah apologist but even I was cracking up with the Jorah "where my hug at" Mormont line. He really is *that* guy who's like 45 but wears monster energy flat brim hats and red and white flannel hoodies

I think Vic died in Dance. He's just too dumb to know it.

I tend to agree with David Lightbringer about Daenerys. He did some in-depth podcasts following GOT Season 8, covering each book and going through her chapters methodically to analyze her character. He also did one Who is the Real Daenerys compilation video and another fantastic video about George’s inspiration for Daenerys coming from Indian mythology and folklore. I highly recommend checking out his Daenerys playlist. I know that this doesn’t necessarily prove what will happen in Winds and beyond. I do expect Daenerys to have a dark turn for a quite a while. Her journey to Westeros, most likely through Volantis and Pentos, is likely to be very bloody. And then there will be whatever happens between her and fAegon. But I tend to think that her ultimate purpose is going to be the freeing of the Wights from their eternal servitude to the Others. Freeing those in slavery has been such a significant part of her story arc since the beginning. I believe that whatever happens between her and fAegon is going to result in a major disaster for King’s Landing. I expect that the people of Westeros will likely consider her to be her father’s daughter. But I still expect in the end, she will sacrifice herself in some act to free the undead. And she probably will not be recognized as a hero for her actions, even though I think she will be. I accept that I could be totally wrong about where her story is headed. But at this time, I feel pretty confident about it based upon her story so far, where she seems to be going and what the story needs to deal with. The Iron Throne is a false prize. Getting it back was her brother Viserys’ dream. Danearys wants family and belonging. And she wants to be a hero. The Iron Throne will give her none of that.

Good Points, good Video, thanks for sharing and creating it.

Hell yes, I've been thinking this for ages. Great to hear your take on it

I tend to think of Daenerys sudden turn to "madness" as the worst plot beat in the entire series, but then I remember they ended the entire overarching white walker/winter plot, the core of the entire series, by having Arya stab it.

Strong Belwas is the smartest man in Meereen

Something that annoys me about Dany X is that people always ALWAYS ignore that Dany is shitting because she clearly caught the grey mare, which is basically just dysentery. This is because earlier in ADWD Dany tries to play Jesus by going out and helping the plague victims herself, ignoring her advisors. Everyone ignores this and the repercussions it will cause. Dany brought the plague into Meereen itself. Any Dothraki horde that approaches Dany risks getting destroyed by the plague since Dany is now a vector.

Dany will remain a good character, who has to fight off bad council. She is the hero of A Song of Ice and Fire

Something I feel people forget about Daenerys is that she _is_ capable of doing horrible things, and we've seen her do so. Either during or after her conquest of Slaver's Bay, she had a number of the old, rich nobles crucified in exactly the same way they'd done to a number of slaves earlier in the conflict. I'm not saying they were innocent by any means, but that's a prime example of Dany engaging in the kind of harsh action the Targaryens are feared for. And, while the show _absolutely_ dropped the ball on this, I do thing Tyrion's explanation at the end works - when you keep telling someone that they're the hero, that any villainous act they take or order is justified, eventually they might start to think that _any_ action they take is correct or justified, no matter how horrible. If the show runners had maybe bothered to actually foreshadow that, maybe the show's ending would have been better received.

A Dany prediction for TWOW video? Subscribed.

I was thinking that Littlefinger might lodge himself with Dany and become a close advisor to her. Though Tyrion being alive and well might make problems for him. It's easier to imagine her going insane with an overload of information that Petyr might provide.

The Bells could indicate that in the books it will be JonCon who will be burning King's Landing down as a result of his Stony Sept ptsd. But of course FAegon beign Dany's opponent instead of Cersei probably does make Dany being more cruel more believable.

Hopefully we will get to see her and Jon meet in the books, one day. I’m sure Jon will have changed if he’s brought back to life; they should be a volatile duo.

Though he isn't an advisor of Daenerys that could cause her to turn evil both in the series as well as the books. After Tyrion's "Who has a better story speech" Bran says: "Why do you think I came?" We assume that has foreseen Daenerys turning evil and even Tyrion's suggestion to make him king. However what if he hasn't just foreseen it but caused it. By sending Daenerys visions to drive her mad or even warg into her or her dragon. He would have killed thousands to become king himself.

I think what would be most interesting is if dany used her dragons to bring an end to feudalism and force a constitutional monarchy. This would definitely get her to be viewed as “evil” by the lords but not in a way the reader would perceive as evil

Im very curious on how Victarion will work in Dany's circle. I personally dont think he'll last long but his dislike of Eastern Slavery was set up in the Reaver Chapters and hes started making Plans to free the slaves in Slavers bay.

Danny did a whole Darth Vader arc in 2 to 3 episodes. wirh very minimal motivation or reasoning.

"not the brightest bulb in the bulb jar" is the new "mind of a mastermind"

yo quinn the gm completely off topic question but what if combining different forms of magic in some special ritual is the key to permanently defeating the others and getting rid of them for good? maybe the part of the azor ahai prophecy where he is supposed to kill nissa nissa, actually means/requires jon to sacrifice daenaerys in some ritual using both the magic of the red god (melisandre's magic) and the magic of the old gods and that maybe also requires the help of the children of the forest and also maybe the flaming sword he's actually supposed to plunge into nissa nissa's heart is a knife made of dragon glass (into daenaerys' chest during a ritual).

Dany X is one of the most important chapters of the entire series. It's more important than the Red Wedding. It's where Dany makes the choice to ruleh through 'Fire and Blood instead of being a diplomatic, benevolent queen, and as a result of that choice, at the end of the chapter, SHE BONDS WITH DROGON. She can ride him without needing a whip anymore and Drogon reacts to her emotions only. It's the chapter that will mark the turning point where Daenerys decides to be a ruthless ruler, AND it is the first moment in the series where a character bonds with a dragon.

I think Marwin is correct in most everything he's shared. He just doesn't know how correct he is. Other things we know of as readers, he doesn't. He's not exactly unfounded in his beliefs and motives. And we should really all know by now... The difference between a conspiracy theorist and the truth... ... is usually only a few months.

4 views, damn I was so close to being that legendary view #1 on a video XD

Argue with me all you want! In my head cannon, Tyrion Lannister and cerci was conspiring against Dany since season 7!

To borrow from Terry Pratchett, show!Dany went from A to Z without going through the rest of the alphabet. The books have made it clear she risks arriving at Z and what the path looks like, but the show did a lot less in this regard. And as for King Bran, we haven't even reached A.

I think Daenerys might not even turn fully villainous. I do think she could unleash the power of the dragons over these advisors, most of Dany's arc also has to do with her finding herself into very bad situation with men surrounding her I think the ~Grassland Retreat~ is also a way to get into her lineage Fire and Blood, she's a Targaryen she won't be hold back by Westerosi standard or ideal, it would circle back into Aegon, Visanya and Rhaenys story too with them having to conform into Westeros

You should have used fanart Danny, to show how young she is.

Let's gooo! First? Second? Who cares? Not me

I think Dany might be looked at as a villain for burning Volantis, but I doubt F'Aegon will be an issue as he and Jon Con are likely spreading greyscale which causes you to go mad. So I think Dany will be more concerned w/ the plague and the Others than she is w/ F'Aegon himself. Plus if F'Aegon does somehow come into power in King's Landing before Dany gets there, I would seriously doubt that Cersie would simply accept it as she has already burned the Tower of the Hand just for Tyrion. I can only imagine how far she might go to deal w/ an invading army aka she has wildfire.

Am I the only one who thinks Marwyn looks like a medieval Frank Reynolds from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia?"

I truly don’t believe dany would just turn evil and murder innocents. It just seems counter to her character. She is trying not to be her father. Also aegon I sincerely doubt will get far. He might have a few victories but griff wants to take storms end for some reason and he might be able to sway someone like bronn to his cause but even with the disarray Kevan and pycelles death will cause Cersei is doubtful to regain power even after her trial.

It seems like another theme for dany is learning the wrong lessons. The shaman woman who “heals” drogo, chaining her dragons to spare the destruction of her people, her failure at attempting to rule mereen. what was the lesson she learned from these moments? I suspect there will be more “lessons” like these coming. Moments that can legitimately occur in life, but without the right wisdom can teach us the wrong lesson.

I always thought that the interpretation of archmaester Marwin you used in the thumbnail looked like a cavemen...

I think Selmy living a while would fit with George’s MO if Lemore turns out to be Ashara Dayne

I think it’s such a hot take calling Victarion evil so far he’s done nothing evil at all. He lives the iron born life and is plotting against his brother but just lacks the intellect to do so. I actually enjoy his character not being a dumb evil brute.

Darkstar would be a great advisor to Dany

Not to give any HOTD spoilers, but...I could see Daenerys going out similar to how Rhaenys does, just in the battle against the Others. That said, if she takes an irreversible turn for the worse like she does in the show, I think Jorah is a much better option to kill her than Jon. I could see him doing a murder-suicide actually. But again, I don't think it'll come to that and if truth be told, Jon will be the one who faces off with Cersei in the end, to mirror the story's opening conflict between the Starks and Lannisters. Great video Quinn!

What about Daario?

congratulations on the end of your first year

Will Varys the Merman also become one of Dany's advisors in Winds?

I think Barristan will betray Daenerys for Jon when he finds out he’s Aegon and he will get Varys death in the show. It will be one of Daenerys’s three betrayals

No Reznak mo Reznak?

In the show, this honor goes the "the imp" of the Lannisters.

Will be heartwarming to see Tyrion council his mother to burn all of Westeros 🥹

Come to think of it, Dany already has been influenced by a lot of “baddies.” Raised by Viserys, foolish petty violent abuser. Married to Drogo, a super killer in a violent culture. Cozied up to Darrio, violent mercenary.

Why don’t you ever edit your audio when mistakes happen , just curious

I think Dany will have a sort of Rand al’Thor arc. I think it’s important for these characters that start off more wide-eyed and naive to grapple with and fully explore darkness (or justifying the means with ends) before they can ultimately make a choice on their ultimate path.

I don’t agree with Vic being the most evil POV at all, he has his principles, he knows gratitude and has his own specific sense of honor

Im pretty sure dany is gonna get killed at some point, jorah is going to give her the last kiss. This will parallel what dany is thinking the first time he kissed her without permission. zombie dany seems a lot more likely to be going lady stoneheart on KL.

You're not worried about any of the Essos characters like Daario, Hizdhar, the Green Grace, or the Shavepate?

I’ve never been this early for a video before.

Varys will definitely make her look like “the mad queen” but she’ll give up King’s Landing to save the North

lmao danny sympathetic even in the show? CMON NOW And viccy more evil than cersei? I swear

I will always defend my girl Dany

It's true, Viccy ISN'T the brightest bulb in the bulb jar.

Is it evil to embody the Ironborn way?

We all knew a Jorah in high school lol

Cersei is definitely more evil than Victarion Greyjoy. She murdered her friend at a young age. Gave Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn to be tortured and murdered. Victarion kills those who wronged him quickly. Plus he is stupid and not as manipulative so he's ability for causing evil outcomes is capped.

I think Ser Selmy just belives in nobilitys right to rule. Its the given order and ofc he, as part of the noble caste, enforces the conservative status quo. Why should he, not just as Semly himself, but as a member of a medieval society, care when some peasents get caught in the crossfire? Its a Kings right to rule and a peasents duty to serve. Thats no justification, just an explanation

Thank god for the video i need to distract myself from The Madrid shit

omg definitely not first

Vic ain’t even that bad yall, neither is the maester

My boy Young Griff gonna be looking great.

Daenerys is nothing without dragons, Euron is everything even with no dragons. She is in trouble.

QuinnTheGM Find 13 Episodes is legally Bad Writing that is an Fact.

She’s totally going evil, ala Raenyra in F&B, just as FAegon represents Aegon I, both will become evil, both are going to die, George like to draw parallels between the past and present

Love your channel, but, no way are Victarion and Cersei the most evil POV characters. Not by a longshot. Euron, takes that by quite some distance. With Victarion, he does have some form of warriors honour and code, moreover, can feel guilt, which his limited intellect can't quite quantify, thus making him look emotionless or cruel, when he is basically a brutish dullard. You don't need to go into Ramsay or Roose Boltons minds to realize, Victarion is positively mild. Cersei, yes she's vile and demented, but you can see pretty clearly were her vileness stems from. Euron, in terms of POV is a pure sociopath, and easily the most evil POV character. A classic case of the pampered rich kid who took waaaaaay to many drugs, and is dabbling into some very deep shit, he has no idea of. Moreover, what he did too Damphair is pretty freaking unspeakable. Cersei and Victarion are a lot of things, but that, they sure ain't.

People talking about how its her advisors are whats going to make her evil as if she hasnt already done extremely evil acts sorry if i dont see her as a sympathetic character i hold her Accountable for her actions

Daenerys will not have the story as in the show, yet you spent next several minutes talking about how and why she will "turn to the dark side", ... so she will become evil, but not like in the show? With a bit more "reasons"? And then it will be ok? So she will not turn evil like in the show but she will turn evil? Or, NOT! in a sudden double twist? :tyrion pukes gif: Besides that this video brings one of the most nonsensical descriptions of who Barristan Selmy is and what his behavior and role were so far. And the rest is not any better, but of course none of this has to make any sense, its just another negativity focused clickbait. Congratulations.

Jorah is going to kidnap Daenerys. He is evil. He has made it clear he'd take her if not for her bloodriders

You didn’t mention Moqorro. Someone,who thinks she is the messiah of a religion that likes to „cleanse“ nonbelievers with fire, will probably not calm things down.

I think Euron will play a pivotal role here. He obviously has Victarion figured out and has little to fear from him, and in Aeron's vision it's hinted he may marry Daenerys (I've also seen people speculate that woman may be Cersei but I think that's just people putting too much stock in show canon. Cersei is a spent force and will die halfway TWOW). Euron is much more Dany's type than anyone else and a marriage would make sense from a political sense as well, as Dany has no allies in Westeros and the Iron Fleet is already partly at her side.

I dont think she will go mad but i think she will have a hard time in westeros being hated by the smallfolk and the nobility

no, she isn't turning on a dime. Have you even watched the show? In nearly every episode of the second season she is claiming to burn cities down and let people die crying. She was a mad Princess right from the beginning of the show. Her Dothraki followers don't care about that. As the dothraki are scrupulous murderers themselves. Johra isn't seeing it as he is in love with that little girl. One of Martins strange perversions. But he always keeps warning her and trying to teach her that this is wrong. She nails hundreds of masters to sign posts and calls it justice. And as someone explains to her that she also nailed people to posts who tried to stop the cruel acts of the masters she is nearly murdering that person...probably by fire. Barristan teaches her about how Rhaegar was a kind and joyful person. It has to be grim for him when seeing how Danny is nothing of that. Tyrion is also constantly telling her to not burn cities and she is always going back to "Burn cities?" In the last season when fighting the lannisters with her dragons and as Danny won the battle. Tarly didn't surrender and she sentenced him to death. The usual way is beheading. But no one who denies Dannies right to rule deserves a "quick" death (we know beheading it's not that quick) but she is burning them alive. In her words: Letting them die screaming. Finally she did the thing she was always talking about. And that was the thing she did to everyone in Kingslanding and would do to everyone in Westeros and Essos. She was a mad Queen. Her "overreaction" in Kingslanding is still understnadable. After seeing her best friend and probably only person to call family being beheaded. You have to see that Danny and Missandei talked a lot about "girl stuff". Probably the only person she couild emotional bond to without having a sexual realtionship with. So there are still some way to see her "just" overreacting and that would mean everyone else is just wrong with thinking that she has to be stopped before it's too late. I probably should tell you what one should tell Johra: Keep your damn fingers from that teenage girl!!! Well the actress is of full age. But still. Don't be horney and call your opinion fact.

Danny has always been evil since she got control of Drogo's Khal