Dagger Code vs Pyranha Scorch | Walkthrough & On-Water 

Thanks! Glad it was helpful, and I appreciate you taking the time to lmk. 👍🏼

Thanks! And yes, it’s lovely in there. One of my current favorites.

Nice, thx Lee! I think you are spot on ab this boat likely excelling in shallow rocky terrain. I think you are also generally correct ab holes and my weight, though to be fair the Scorch doesn’t do the same, and I’m just as low in the weight range (lower in fact). IMO it’s a combination of my weight and the boat design. I’m heading on a Rogue trip in a few days, and if I had known earlier I probably would’ve waited to sell it bc I’m curious how it would’ve performed loaded. Maybe it would’ve tracked better w the rails sitting deeper, and I’m sure it would’ve punched holes better w weight. Plus it would’ve been easier to access stern (though not the bow) vs Scorch, and the Code seat is more comfortable too. But I loved the Scorch on our Illinois trip, so not too torn up ab it.

Thx! Glad it was helpful, and I appreciate you letting me know. 👍🏼

Thanks. Sounds like you made a good choice. Your description of those two boats is excellent, and matches a lot of what I’ve experienced and been told. Thx for sharing!

I think you are probably right ab my low weight being a factor. I sat in a small and it was too tight (and especially too low in the knees), even though it would’ve been more appropriate for my weight. This is not uncommon for me since I’m 6’ but only 135. I was a little surprised the Code didn’t behave better even at my low weight, since I know a lot of people who could paddle mediums have been choosing a Lg, but who knows. Sounds like the S is working well for you even being higher in the weight range, which makes a lot to sense to me since it engages those soft rails. I don’t think I mentioned it in the video, but I used to paddle a S Machno (which fit me really well, being a bigger size S), and had a M Burn 3 before that. Like you, I have an Allstar (but a 2013), and a M Antix 2.0, and they both fit me well.

Thx for sharing Thomas. That all lines up very well with what my two buddies who paddle L Codes have told me. One of them calls it his “monster truck,” and even asked if the boat looks huge on him bc it feels so big! He’s thinking he may end up in a L Scorch too. He came from an OG, and it was feeling sluggish for him. Interesting that yours is so dry bc everyone I know w a Code says theirs is wet. One guy just taped over his foot plate holes and it helped some but he still took on water. My Antix (and actually every boat I own) are basically 100% dry. Water sloshing around on my legs when I’m rolling and bracing is something that drives me crazy. I know two other people w Codes that moved their seat all the way forward, and they seem to like it. Me and others moved ours forward a bit. One guy moved his back a little after feeling odd. He said it was like being tilted forward too much, so lots of bow rocker, but w a forward lean.

@@kevinhill.8 No longer on the fence, sold the Code last weekend, now trying to find a large Scorch. Got on the Hood at a little over 7 foot, and the Code just doesn't seem to track real well, or gets pushed around. Either way I ended up in a pretty meaty hole right above were the take out used to be for the dam, managed to get a large Code vertical. Anyway, my plan has been to find a boat to give me a little more confidence to step up my game, for me the Code is not it.

@@MrKayaktom thanks for sharing that feedback, and good luck w finding a boat that works for you. 👍🏼👍🏼

Thx for your comment Pop. Lots of good stuff you’ve included here, which should be helpful for those considering a Code. 👍🏼

Thanks! I think you are probably correct that the boat would perform better for me if I was a little heavier. How do you like your Code vs your Machno? Do you plan to keep both?

@@kevinhill.8 I like the code the best but I will keep the machno mostly for my brother to ride and it a good overnight boat as well

Nice! I’m sure it’ll take a while to adjust, but post a comment about how it goes when you get a chance.

That definitely understandable! I just never get very much water in any of my boats unless I swim, and thankfully that’s a rare thing for me, so using a sponge for a second seems easier and gets that small amount of water completely out. I certainly know a lot of people who drain real amounts of water out after every paddle though, so I can see why not everyone would feel the same as me re drain plugs. Thx for watching and commenting. 👍🏼

Thanks. I agree it would be nice to have both boats for different situations; I felt like I wouldn’t use the code enough to justify keeping it. As for the leaking, all the bolts were tight and it’s definitely not my skirt. I have a new Klingon Empire and it’s bone dry on my Scorch, Antix 2.0, Ozone, and All-Star. It’s definitely the boat. I’m glad yours is dry though. I’ve had a few others tell me their Dagger boats were dry too, but the vast majority complain of leaking, including buddies who own Codes and Rewinds. My wife used to paddle a Mamba and it leaked a ton too. 🤷🏼‍♂️

@@kevinhill.8 crazy man. I demo'ed a Scorch today, and I haven't had so much water in my boat since the last time I swam! Not even trying to be a troll. I think it's the cockpit rim shape. I was using a Royale, and we were paddling easy beer drinking fun Class III so I was taking it off and smoking weed of course, but I really had to mold it back around the rim deliberately to not have water come in around the hips. I believe you, but I've had exactly the opposite experience. Really liked the boat, more fun to be in just all around even on the flat water. Main complaints are the leaking, the ratchets (absolute trash), and also tail tapping even easy boofs felt like someone smacked me in the stern with a hammer. Definitely want a Scorch and going to get one somehow, but also definitely appreciate the Code for all the other things that should be easy like basic outfitting common sense that Pyranha is still 10 years behind in

@@UrsaMusic I can’t disagree w you ab Pyranha’s outfitting needing an update, though with some customization (backband hack, hookers, knee and heel blocks), I find the fit to be really good. But that is a lot of extra work. The only thing I dislike ab the ratchets is that the strap can pop out if you aren’t careful and can be annoying to get back in. The backband sucks overall, and the hip pads are terrible (one strap that comes off all the time and no bottom strap to retain the pads). As for the cockpit shape, it’s definitely not ideal for skirts. I’ve spoken to IR about this on a few occasions and they tell me they’ve actually tried to get Pyranha to improve it for a better seal. They said the main issue is the rise from the hips to the knees. Because of that, they said a Rand will actually fit better on Pyranha cockpits, because it can conform to the shape better, where a bungee will try to “bridge” the gap. I can feel my Klingon Empire trying to do that on my Scorch, but I’ve never had it pop up or leak at all. My Royale fits better and is also completely dry on that boat. If you haven’t already, you may want to check out my video on the issue Pyranha was having with their drain plug housing during Covid. They put out a PSA about it a couple days after my video came out. (They were already working on the issue, but when I sent them my video I think it prompted them to drop it asap.) Anyway, if the boat you paddled wasn’t brand new, it’s very possible this was the issue. Here’s a link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Aohp2HejetU.html I also made a video comparing the small and medium scorch. In it I show the outfitting I did in mine, and also how much sealant the new scorches have. Here’s that video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PKl3a4d7yvc.html My wife’s small is totally dry btw, and she said her mamba was the first boat she ever owned where she had to sponge out water mid-run. She paddled various Jackson boats and a 3rd Gen Burn before that.

@@kevinhill.8 ok nice man, I’ll check that out. It was a demo again. I checked every screw except those. I have buddies with this boat who say it’s bone dry. The outfitting ergonomics I don’t mind, I actually like a low back band. And the knee position feels great, just needs foam. Was more just the fact that I’ve swam because of back band failure and it shouldn’t be that big a deal to not have the ratchets slip out. I heard Pyranha finally changed the rim shape on the Ripper 2, they’ve known about it but all their molds are already made.

@@UrsaMusic yeah, I bet the drain plug housing is leaking and nobody has fixed it (easy fix too). It’s true that they did change the R2 cockpit shape, but I’m not sure they fixed the issue. They shortened and widened the opening (so made it less oblong, and more round), which is good for skirt tension, but doesn’t get at the root of the issue, which is the large drop (when looking from side) from knees down to waist. Unfortunately I think that drop is what contributes to the boat feeling so good, so I kind of worry about it if they were to change it. High knees are comfy and low deck height means easy rolling and lots of room to move. Did the ratchets fail (slip out) while you were paddling?! 🤯😳 I’ve never had them slip while in use. The strap holding them slips if you don’t tie a knot at the buckle behind the seat, which is ridiculous imo.

I really should. It’s one of my all time favorite boats. Thx for the suggestion. 👍🏼

It’s such a nice improvement. My wife and I both did it to our Scorches. Wade has a great video detailing the process. I have links to that video and a few other in the Description, which I also pinned as a Comment. Here it is for you: Pyranha Backband Hack: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VXk9kOKfavo.html. Btw, I had always heard it could put stress on the seat bolt holes, but I ran it by Josh at Pyranha and he said it’s all good. 👍🏼

Haha, thanks brother! All that vertical time in the Antix and Ozone came in handy. 😬

Check out my channel. I have four vids on the Gnar, and two of them deal specifically with the Gnar vs Scorch. Here’s a link to the first one: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-c__AVOHWEY4.htmlsi=FBWO-2bTmLXQQMGT

They do share some similarities. My buddy paddles a Recon, so I’m familiar with it. We call it “Frank the Tank” bc it’s such a beast of a boat. Code definitely has more bow rocker though, and (at least slightly) sharper edges. 👍🏼

@@kevinhill.8 I used the recon on high gradient creeks littered with boulders and in turns really fast. But it is impossible to keep straight lines or surf decently, its also pretty slow. I never had any issue with the rocker and it boofed everything without sweat So I replaced it with the opposite, a Ripper 2. Surfs crazy and runs like on train tracks, but you definitely need to drive it and not be sloppy when on the edges

@@MaartenvanNoorden nice! I have a S Ripper 2, and that all sounds right to me. Super fun boat. 🤩

Thanks Brooks! I appreciate you checking out the video and taking time to share your thoughts. I always appreciate your thorough boat analysis (maybe best I’ve seen on the Goat). 👍🏼 I think you are right ab the M Code being extra bouncy (and probably extra loose too) bc I’m so light. At one point I told someone I felt like I was paddling a bobber, haha. It’s interesting though bc the listed weight range of the M Code is 140-220, but the Scorch is 145-200, so I’m technically father outside the Scorch range than the Code. But those recommendations obviously aren’t an exact science. I actually prefer looking at the middle of the range to give the best sense, and the Scorch is lower (173) than the Code (180). Btw, I haven’t paddled a small Code, or S Scorch, but I have sat in both. The S Scorch felt decent, but the S Code knees felt way too low. I didn’t think to mention it in the video, but it’s something I’ve found in other Dagger boats too (e.g., M Rewind), and I’m not a big fan. I like high knees, which has me stoked for the Ripper 2 (hated the low knees in my old S Ripper). And I agree 💯 % that Pyranha crushed it w the Scorch! 🔥

I wonder if you being so light does affect some of the verticality you experience. At ~165lbs without gear myself, I do find the Code has a lot of stern pop due to the aggressive rocker profile but I’ve not come close to looking at the sky like you do in your clips. It’s definitely not meant to be a fast boat so getting pushed around is going to happen some. I don’t find myself getting pushed off line quite like you are in your video either. I’m really leaning towards you being so light that the hull just isn’t interacting with the water as designed. As I think about having had a billy goat for awhile I experienced a similar weight issue where I was simply too heavy and the boat wasn’t doing what I wanted or expected almost ever. Being too far on either end of a weight spectrum can certainly imo effect how a boat handles and I often think of the Code by dimension as a large leaning medium boat vs a billy goat as a large leaning small boat. Currently only half way through your video though so will be curious as to the rest…

I used to paddle a 3rd gen Burn for years, and you are correct ab the rails being similar. But the similarities kind of end there. Everything else ab the Scorch is different…and much hotter, haha. 🔥

Where did you hear that? And who does that?!?! 🤦🏼‍♂️

@@kevinhill.8i worked for dagger then worked for pyranha for a bit. I never got confirmation either way it was just an industry rumor.

Very good point James. I remember the first person who ever sold me a boat (shop owner) was a huge proponent of paddling what you felt comfortable in, and believed you could figure a lot of that out just sitting in it on the ground. To some extent I agree. And I definitely agree w your point ab the boat you know being better. Like I remember after paddling my Ozone a lot, feeling like I could run some pretty hard stuff in it bc I knew it so well, and even though it can be 🌶, I knew what to expect and could put it right where I wanted. That obviously only goes so far w a boat like that, based on skill level (some have been running LW in Supernova!), but reflects your point.

Scorch is a super sick design to be sure!

No, I would not. Code or a Gnarvana will be much more forgiving. I’d recommend the Antix 2.0 before the Scorch for a beginner, unless you are running a lot of holes, but that seems unlikely for a beginner.

@@kevinhill.8 so I run an antix 2.0 as the first boat I’ve ever owned and love it, however, we both know how low that stern sits in the water and on bigger water like class 4 I got my ass handed to me, granted it was my first time running it on class 4 with some pretty big holes and I’m sure as time goes by I’ll get even better running bigger water with it but I do want to add a creeker to my quiver for big water and I’m torn, I was set on the code until I saw this review, I’ve demoed the large scorch which was too big for me but loved it’s stability and wasn’t hard to roll, however, the edges hanging up on rocks in lower flow is what I’m not a fan of but at this point is just something I need to get over and deal with, so what would you recommend between the scorch and gnarvana? I know the gnar is more forgiving but as far as edges between both boats, which one hangs up on rocks less (if any difference) and which one rolls easier? I know I won’t get the perfect blend but a happy median would be suffice.

@@followingrj that all makes sense. While the Antix is a decent first boat, once you start running harder stuff, you will find it’s limits, especially as a newer boater. I agree it sounds like it’s time for you to get a true creeker. Personally I’d recommend the Gnar over the Scorch. (But I sold my Scorch and kept my Gnar, so no surprise there). That said, they are both really good, and it may come down to personal preference and fit. Gnar is more stable and predictable mainly bc of width, softer edges at ends, and more stern rocker. It isn’t like butter off rocks the way the soft-edged Code will be, but it will hang up less than the Scorch. Scorch is easiest to roll bc it’s narrower and stern is lower. Your height and weight may also be critical since sizing on the two boats is pretty different. Maybe share those details and I can help further. 👍🏼

@@kevinhill.8 thanks Kevin, I’m 5’7 on a bad day and 5’8 on a good day lol, currently weighing 160, I actually demoed the large scorch and did find it easy to roll and stable on edge and I loved that but hated how leaky it was so I’ve been toying between the scorch, the gnar and the z3.

@@followingrj let me strongly suggest you ditch the Z3 option and stick w the other two (vastly superior) choices, haha. At only 160, I’m confused ab why you would be looking at the L Scorch; you should be absolutely perfect for the M. In the Gnar you will find yourself between sizes (S and M), so I’d demo for sure if you can, or at least sit in both. I’m 135 and I owned the M and sold it for the S. Buddy I sold it to is 160 and wonders if it’s too big for him. All three Gnar sizes run big. Another buddy is 170-175 and paddles M Gnar. He tried my S and said he could go either way. And a buddy who is 215 tried my M before I sold it and said it wasn’t all that bad (he just bought a L and loves it). If you go w Gnar it may be down to whether you like a boat to feel big or small. If you go Scorch I’d say M for sure. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Yeah, thats all true to an extent, but weight isn’t the only factor when it comes to boat sizing. Because I’m ab 6’ tall and have a lot of upper body strength (w chicken legs), I can do pretty well in boats that are “too big” for me. I don’t get swallowed up in them as easily as the average (smaller) person who’s my weight. Also, I’ve paddle the small Code and my wife owns the small Scorch, so I’m familiar w how both paddle (same w small Antix 2.0, which my wife also owns). They are all ok, with the exception of the small Code, which I didn’t like bc of the low knees w my 31” inseam.

Haha, yeah little honest on water analysis there. 😁

@Kevin Hill my axiom got that very same scolding so many times, it turned into a ripper 😆

@@andrewnau433 haha, smart move! 👍🏼😎 Rip 1 or 2?

@Kevin Hill r1 but the 2 is coming. I can't give up the speedy hull, and the 2 is just ridiculous fun

Mostly Sandy Gorge. One clip of Hood at very end. I think that’s a pretty spot on analysis top to bottom Todd. I borrowed a Rewind once and immediately noticed the soft edges too. I got used to it after ab half a run, but still not my preference. Half slice boats I’ve owned are Ripper, Goat, and Antix. All have much sharper edges, and Antix (2.0) is my favorite by far. Overall Pyranha is at the sporty end of the spectrum and Dagger tends to be at the forgiving end. I have a Nova on order, so I’m hoping they keep the edge at least relatively strong in that one (like I’ve seen on the prototypes). 💪🏼🤞🏼

Probably right. I sat in a small and it felt too small, and the knees were much too low for my liking. The medium Scorch is on the small end of medium, which is part of why it works better for me.

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