This is such a consequential conversation. Well said at the end - "if you aren't outraged, you are not paying attention" and "If you aren't overwhelmed by the Beauty of Life, you are not paying attention." Both simultaneously true; and many of us are holding both the outrage and the Beauty within us simultaneously. My love for the Earth motivates me deal to do 'good work' because I am kin to Earth. That is how I deal with my existential angst. Thank you for sharing the discussion, ~
Your love for the Earth is one-sided!! The Earth doesn't care about you and it doesn't need you. Those lofty ideals are just that... lofty ideals which people need in order to feel good about themselves. There are plenty of flaws in their approach. Getting goosebumps doesn't mean what's been said is applicable!!
Oh *friend! I feel your spirit* and share it. The earth provides for *the butterflies!!* Miracles from large to small, animate and inanimate, *earth provides for all life.* We are all related. We are all made of the same atoms, and use the same DNA blueprint system. We are truly related Ken, and this earth is a paradise, a literal paradise of creativity, beauty, playfulness, joy, and above all *interconnection*
@@youtubehatesfreespeech2555 absolutely agree. I mean I love nature since I surfed growing up constantly and went on many backpack trips in the sierras but I find that hippy love Gaia shit so nauseating. Yes Earth is beautiful and amazing but it does not care about you and homo sapiens first!
@@idnintel I find it very hard to see the beauty of Nature. The endless carnage is something which draws my attention more than the "amazing" sunsets! Nature is brutal if you look at her totality! Far more bad and good!
@@youtubehatesfreespeech2555 I know where you are coming from of course but it is both. I have like I said surfed and backpacked tons (and experienced great beauty) but both activities can easily kill you and the earth does not give one shit about you, take care!
“You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.” Mary Oliver Wild Geese Nate and Daniel thank you for this vital conversation. In these times I find hope in poetry, arts, and community like the one you are forming one conversation at a time.
That "let the soft animal of your body love what it loves" is the root cause of all the turmoil we find ourselves in today. The animal body has too many demands and it uses itself to increase consumption via science and tech. The brain is also the body and we have been using our brains to give this animal body all kinds of pleasures and niceties. And here we are... the machine is destroying the ecosystems as well as human life. What have we done?
Finished listening to this conversation at 2:50am in China, want to send my deep and heartfelt gratitude to both Daniel and Nate (whom I should've discovered earlier), do feel like my heart and mind is transformed after this, and can't wait for the next one!
Wow you cant use youtube without using a VPN or similar tech? How do you think the US-china relationship plays out over the next few decades? I hope it goes the route of a healthy competition within the non kinetic warfare categories ie. Economic, information, cultural. My guess is china moves past the US. So many more people and 5-1 engineers.. and overall from my perspective china seems to have a culture that is advantageous to long term growth such as the importance on education and frugality. Our culture has degraded significantly over the past few decades. We celebrate famous people and dont save as much. The American story and ambition seems to have lost it's way.
Changing the price of goods to reflect their true system cost is a very powerful idea. The closer we move toward true cost pricing, the better we will be able as a society, or superorganism, to move toward conservation models of consumption and thoughtful, regenerative growth. This is the idea that needs to spread.
I literally have zero people in my personal circle that would be able to digest this conversation. I have no one to talk to about it that would pay attention long enough to understand.
Here are show notes and references w time stamps: (copied over from thegreatsimplification.com). Show Notes 01:45: Daniel’s website and other works civilizationemerging.com/about/ 2:30: Nate’s work on Macro-issues Economics for the Future - Beyond the Superorganism www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800919310067 Reality Blind book Volume 1 (online) read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/i/ Reality 101 Videos 5 hour series: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YsgxopIZzto.html 1 hour series: ru-vid.com/group/PLdHV4AV3ixB2GIi8SyuCANgMmBKYRtyJS energy only series: ru-vid.com/group/PLdHV4AV3ixB2J2PQrvbDnDg_93YAlklTK 2:45: Daniel’s work on micro-issues civilizationemerging.com/ 5:30: consilience project consilienceproject.org/ 8:40: Marvin Harris - cultural materialism anthropology.ua.edu/theory/cultural-materialism/ 11:20: Energy is the currency of life and a core driver of nature www.wiley.com/en-ie/Behavioural+Ecology:+An+Evolutionary+Approach,+4th+Edition-p-9780865427310 Lotka: Contribution to the Energetics of Evolution 12:12: Climate warmed and stabilized, propelling agriculture and creating more energy surplus www.dandebat.dk/eng-klima7.htm link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10818-013-9156-6 13:20: Since the 1800s we’ve been using stored fossil energy surplus 10 million times faster than it was sequestered www.pnas.org/content/112/31/9511 13:52: Economics treats energy consumption like interest rather than principle read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/212/ 14:05 One barrel of oil is equivalent to 5 years of human work www.iier.ch/pub/files/Sun%2C%2007/31/2011%20-%2016%3A11/Green%20Growth%20DFID%20report.pdf Economics for the Future - Beyond the Superorganism - section: 4.3 15:10: There is no substitute for energy www.theguardian.com/news/2015/apr/08/can-world-economy-survive-without-fossil-fuels 15:32: GDP cannot decouple from energy journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0164733 16:25: The current financial system requires growth to continue www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/11/economic-growth/506423/ 16:50: Central banks are blowing up their balance sheets keep the system going www.yardeni.com/pub/peacockfedecbassets.pdf 17:20: We are a superorganism read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/126/ Maximum Power Principle and the Human Superorganism 17:45: Technology is dependent on energy read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/222/ 19:30: Fourth Law of thermodynamics - Maximum Law Principle read.realityblind.world/view/388478403/170/ 20:22: Kleiber's Law en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleiber%27s_law read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/198/ ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hLGDJFGAmic.html 23:08: Anthropocene www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/what-is-the-anthropocene.html 23:45: Inequality of consumption correlates with surplus www.smithsonianmag.com/history/aracheology-wealth-inequality-180968072/ 24:16: Dunbar’s number royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2021.0158#:~:text='Dunbar's%20number'%20is%20the%20notion,other%20individuals%20in%20the%20group. 24:54: Individual and cultural plasticity www.bibliovault.org/BV.landing.epl?ISBN=9780226712840 25:20: Exosomatic energy - the average american consumes >200,000 Kcals per day www.ejolt.org/2012/12/human-energy-use-endosomatic-exosomatic/ 26:13: We use 100 billion barrel equivalents of oil, coal, and natural gas, equivalent to 500 billion human workers read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/190/ Energy is Merely a Commodity 29:35 timestamp from Earth and Humanity 29:07: Stone age and overhunting www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/19/604031141/new-study-says-ancient-humans-hunted-big-mammals-to-extinction 31:00 Humans and livestock are 98% of mammalian biomass www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/21/human-race-just-001-of-all-life-but-has-destroyed-over-80-of-wild-mammals-study 31:17 Total biomass is 700% of what it was 10,000 years ago www.pnas.org/content/105/Supplement_1/11543 31:47 60% of nitrogen in our bodies today has a chemical signature from natural gas from synthetic fertilizer cen.acs.org/articles/86/i33/Haber-Bosch-Reaction-Early-Chemical.html vaclavsmil.com/wp-content/uploads/docs/smil-article-1999-nature7.pdf en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process (last 2 references) 32:32 For most of history our food system was a net energy producer, now it is a net energy sink www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2935130/ 33:15: our entire food system uses 10 times the energy that it produces blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/10-calories-in-1-calorie-out-the-energy-we-spend-on-food/ www.postcarbon.org/publications/the-future-is-rural/ 35:33: Over the last 50 years GDP has been growing 100% while energy is growing 99% Figure 2: synapse9.com/drafts/2021-NewSci-IndividSys-MS.pdf 36:24: Energy intensity of GDP, some countries have been reducing their energy intensity due to exports and imports voxeu.org/article/myth-decoupling 37:03: Global GDP is still very tightly coupled read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/195/ 38:00: Financial manipulation also create the illusion of decoupling link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00191-017-0514-8 39:58: Wide boundary thinking read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/20/ 40:56: Nate’s Hagens ~ Economics for the future - Beyond the Superorganism www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800919310067 41:11: Jevons paradox en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox#:~:text=In%20economics%2C%20the%20Jevons%20paradox,rises%20due%20to%20increasing%20demand. 42:42: Energy depletion www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/03-arthurberman 43:10: Two categories of technology read.realityblind.world/view/388478403/143/ 47:55: We are at diminishing returns on oil read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/265/ 48:25: The nature of interest requires financial growth www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521915001477 49:30: Potential vs Kinetic energy read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/289/ 51:24: Renewable are actually rebuildables read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/285/ 51:50: In 2019 we grew the electricity demand by more than all the solar voltaic capacity ever built www.iea.org/news/global-electricity-demand-is-growing-faster-than-renewables-driving-strong-increase-in-generation-from-fossil-fuels 52:40: We are using more wood today than we were 100 years ago www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/7/12/7955/htm 54:45: ER/OI - Energy return on Investments en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_return_on_investment ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mATjPdV3tcI.html Dynamic EROI of Global Energy System in Future Scenarios of Transition to Renewable Energy 57:33: Intermittence and variability read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/291/ 58:21: Fossil carbons have a higher total system return on investment and is simple for our systems www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421513003856 59:37: 20% of total global energy is electricity and many things aren’t replaceable by electricity www.un.org/en/chronicle/article/role-fossil-fuels-sustainable-energy-system 1:00:37: We traded out human labor for mechanical labor, exponentially growing our system read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/192/ 1:04:06: We have underpaid for the core economic input and don’t pay for the negative externalities www.nature.com/articles/d41586-017-07510-3 1:05:15: Tim Garrett - GDP and CO2 chart twitter.com/nephologue/status/1455271331902099458 1:06:35: Price difference when adding negative externalities of coal www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/08/coals-externalities-medical-air-quality-financial-environmental/401075/ Full Cost accounting for life cycle of Coal 1:08:50: 95% of taxes are on human labor www.untax.org/ 1:09:57: Relationship between material consumption and GDP is 1:1 over last 50 years www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16941-y 1:10:02: 2lbs of non-renewable materials for every dollar of GDP unstats.un.org/sdgs/report/2019/goal-12/ 1:10:11: An American baby born today will use 3.1 million lbs of non-renewable materials in their lifetime www.manhattan-institute.org/mines-minerals-and-green-energy-reality-check read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/202/ mineralseducationcoalition.org/mining-mineral-statistics 1:10:45: Lithium and electric cars www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m 1:11:10: Everything made from a barrel of oil www.energy.gov/articles/hows-and-whys-replacing-whole-barrel 1:13:05: Waste that comes from mining www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780123814753100051 theconversation.com/mine-waste-dams-threaten-the-environment-even-when-they-dont-fail-130770 1:14:55: What it takes to make a computer scmresearch.org/2018/09/28/the-supply-chain-of-a-computer/ 1:15:40: 2022 current events in Taiwan thehill.com/policy/defense/navy/591015-us-aircraft-carriers-enter-south-china-sea-amid-tensions-between-taiwan 1:17:50: Dick gephardt and advanced policy www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/01-dickgephardt 1:18:14: Untax Project www.untax.org/
Thank you Nate and Daniel. After watching this podcast, I came across a piece on the Carbon Tracker website on the promise of green energy that claims that wind and solar could provide 100X current energy use on less land than the current fossil fuel industry affects. I stopped short at the following couple of paragraphs: "The fossil fuel age is over… The fossil fuel industry cannot compete with the technology learning curves of renewables, so demand will inevitably fall as wind and solar continue to grow. At the current 15-20% growth rates of solar and wind, fossil fuels will be pushed out of the electricity sector by the mid-2030s and out of total energy supply by 2050. … and we begin a new era The unlocking of energy reserves 100 times our current demand creates new possibilities for cheaper energy and more local jobs in a more equitable world with far less environmental stress." Who wouldn't want that? But you have shown clearly that access to huge amounts of cheap energy would accelerate environmental stress (I'd use the terms degradation or destruction instead), not reduce it. Here's the link to the article, in case anyone wants to see the whole thing: carbontracker.org/reports/the-skys-the-limit-solar-wind/
I lead a team in the energy space and am trying to build fundamental awareness of Net Energy and EROEI amongst the other voices there preaching neo-classical GDP models. Your work is impactful, so please keep it up. I am trying to implement a sustainable Integrated Assessment Models (MEDEAS) but the information gulf is so huge that your work is critical for me to build consensus. Thanks Nate for sharing this wonderful conversation with Daniel. I've been following you both independently for a while now and you could not believe my delight seeing the two of you in one call. If you haven't heard of him already I would recommend trying to get a conversation with Timothée Parrique. I would say his framework for degrowth/postgrowth that he developed in his PhD would be valuable to discuss upon the transition pathways to the inevitable Great Simplification.
Wow, great to see Daniel amplifying lesser-known voices. I don't know you Nate, but I found this vid because of Daniel. I'll be looking more into you, and the work you do.
This is really brilliant Nate. This is like a one-stop-shop that covers our current predicament. I met you at ASPO in Lisbon in 2005. So impressed you're maintaining this momentum. Please keep it up.
This expansive and passionate dialog between dedicated, kindred spirits begins the explanation of who we are and where our possible future paths lie based on their shared system understanding of the relationship between increasingly more remote energy/ materials and our growth/ debt based social system.
Nate, I’ve been following Daniel for years now and am myself in the renewable energy space. This is really a critical and important discussion. I’m so glad I discovered you here and intend to read through all your stuff. Fantastic!
I came across Nate on the Planet Critical podcast and was aware that he was involved in the Consilience Project with Daniel, so it was an absolute pleasure to find this conversation. This knowledge and big picture thinking deserves a wider audience.
Love the work you guys are doing. I really think you have the potential to make this podcast a big deal in the space of broad picture and long overdue thinking and conversations. Much love from Germany.
Positive Realism and Stoic Optimism are two terms for the sturdy mindsets needed for us Humans whom seek, hope, and wish to understand our collective if not also individual Predicament, THEN working towards finding meaningful & workable solutions going forward - yeah, that's the stuff. Of resilience...
There have been cultures of downshifting and sufficiency as long as we have civilisation. But the actual variant of that tradition, that I try to be part of, is the first one that‘s motivation is to preserve our precious biosphere and the very existence of humanity itself. Nate and Daniel are inspiring leaders in that respect. 🙏
@Nate, what a fascinating perspective. Your explanation of "energy" as a fundamental currency of measure has already changed the way I look at the behaviors and habits in my own life. Only took 1 hour of listening to this episode! Hats off to you! For so many people including myself, "energy" can be so abstract and intangible. Often the modern concept of energy is clouded by simplicity of language and lack in knowledge of material systems. Thank you for this video and being a NEW teacher in my life. Glad you chose Daniel as your first guest because that is what led me here, clever on your part because you two share a similar ethos of life. One thing that would be great for your channel going forward would be formalizing your goal for your listeners. What is your reason for teaching us this information besides awareness? Are you simply trying to provide content for the masses? Are you trying to educate those who already pattered through the Nihilistic phases and are coming to light? Are you trying to shape people to be stewards of your information? As a teacher, what is your objective for us? In the words of Alfred North Whitehead: "What are the aims of education?". Specifically your educating of us.
@Nicholas Porter. What is my goal? To inform and inspire humans towards acting as pilots/beacons to better adapt to coming cultural transition away from material growth - and in doing, change the initial conditions of coming events in some emergent way. We've made some short animated videos as an explanatory backdrop for where we are headed - to The Great Simplification - and why which will be coming soon (first one next week -Energy Blind). The podcast is going to be about explaining and simplifying the many connections between energy/technology/money/growth, human behavior and Earths ecosystems to illuminate which cultural paths are dead ends, which are still open and what actions we can take as a society, as communities and as individuals. To be blunt, I'm much more confident about what won't happen and what can't happen than what will so am trying to build discourse and understanding and grow a community of humans that act as catalysts in their own corners of the world. So, in a sentence, I'm trying to raise awareness, an ethos, and a tribe of people willing to meet the future halfway -if enough people do that we can change the initial conditions of events to come. Daniel and I view the future through different frames (his more technology/AI and mine more ecology/energy) but on this goal we are fully aligned - there needs to be a change in the cultural conversation about our place in history - and that starts with changing the hearts and minds of people. Thanks for your feedback and being keen to learn and change the future.
@@thegreatsimplification I'm lovin these aligned hearts and minds--it's so nice to be understood! From a philosophic, systems, evolutionary, and social sciences perspective, I've been working on a consilience concept that led me to address the inherited barriers to reconciling. Someday I'll make available: "Humanity’s Plague: Predisposed Blindness to the Roots of Destructiveness, Division, and the Barriers to Reconciling". Dancing our way forward, luv you. Greg
At 18:52 Nate talks about the Maximum Power Principle and describes it, approximately, as plants dissipates more energy (by lowering the temperature) and those organisms that are most efficient will have an evolutional advantage. I don't mean to critize Nate, but plants do not dissipate more energy, as it is the same amount of sunshine that reaches the forest as the road next to it. The following is how I think about it, for whatever that is worth: By utilizing the sunshine for evaporation and photosyntesis the residual temperature from the plants will be lower than the temperature above the road, where the solar energy only heats the surface of the road. The difference in temperature approximately reflects the amount of energy plants use for the work. I would think this is the physics underlying the Maximum Power Principle.
This is a great conversation. I would like to add, that macro-economics starts with micro-economics. The problem's roots lie in the lifestyles of the people in society. This means that people will have to reduce their industrially made goods because the availability of the resources and cost will dictate this. The question is: Can we live a good life without consuming lots of fossil fuels. Can we have electricity? Can we have heat? Will we have enough food? Yes. It is possible, and more and more people are doing this. I've been living off grid in the mountains of Vermont for over 5 years now. I heat my home with wood from my 10 acre forest. I only burn already dead wood. I rarely cut live trees. I've learned techniques to grow abundant food using hugelkulture, and permaculture without any fossil fuel imput. My overall ecological footprint is one fifth (or less) of what it was for me 6 years ago. Interestingly, my expenses have dropped to one fifth of what it was, so I don't have to work that much, (for money), anymore. Less stress, more free time, better food. Its a better life to live simply. If only people knew.
This is a conversation packed with detailed information, spanning many domains, and a huge span of years of human evolution. It's going to take me several rounds to catch everything. Many thanks for the conversation, much appreciated!
This a a DOPE HIT! Thank you Nate for hosting D.S. If i could choose to sit down and talk with one peron on this planet that is alive, It would be Daniel!
It's great to hear these problems and potential solutions articulated so well. It appears our shared symbolic credit system is rapidly disconnecting in relevance from our physical world of energy and materials. Stress is building and when it snaps a huge face melting imbalance will become apparent to everyone. That will be the moment our shared system of credit goes through that singularity of change that's coming. No government or corporate entity will have any meaningful influence over this transition. This is something only the superorganism will be able to deal with. Hopefully the superorganism will be healthy enough when this happens. Thanks to excellent conversations such as this one.
Most people have no idea of what is coming. We have overshot by billions of human beings and I suspect the retracement will be devastating beyond belief. Nature, in the end, will not be cheated. ‘ Hopefully the superorganism will be healthy enough when this happens.’ As George Carlin said “the earth will be fine, it’s us who are (likely) going away”
@@noahbrown4388 It's difficult to see past the singularity coming at us. I agree the point of maximum change during the transition will be devastating for many, well beyond what we currently understand. Humans are not static beings though. It's still possible the superogranism may decide at the last minute that radical change is preferable to self termination.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Really appreciated both your closing comments. Now I understand you even better. Keep going, keep reaching out, keep sharing. Blessings!
Immensely relieved and grateful to you both for pulling everything in like master fishermen. Definitely the best platter of potential and perspectives being served in this corner of the universe. Thank you.
I love this final point in regards to paralogical thinking that we must "pay attention" to beauty of life so that we can be outraged enough to do something to vernerate and protect it and at the same time honor the moment and not let the outrage over come us. Balancing the opposites is the key here, like most things.
Oh sweet, I do enjoy compersion often and I didn't know it had a word. I also like that it's presented as an alternate to jealousy, like a subversion. Many of us would do well by practicing that actively, especially when we encounter too much competition or jealousy with lacking depth or care between people. And it's so clarifying that Daniel describes a "meta-crisis", because I've found I need to use terms like that to really articulate the problems I've been working on in my research. One of the areas most important to me is the youth independence crisis, which is an epicenter, a crossroads. A lot of people do not realize how serious this is and how deep it goes. They failed to take it seriously as much as they failed to take social justice as a serious threat. But all is not lost, because post-2020 a lot more people are waking up. Thank you for a great conversation. I took notes and will follow up on some of the resources mentioned.
Thank you so much for this conversation. Daniel became a great inspiration for me 18 months ago. I'm so glad that you two are talking. Thank you for helping us all to Brock our perception of what's going on right now.
Absolutely brilliant. I've long been aware of the negative externalities. But, I had never thought of it from that angle: the market is operating what would be unprofitable if they had to pay for all the externalities.
The idea that I can - and maybe should - make a habit of translating the value of a dollar into BTUs is a very useful heuristic for a simple pleb like me.
What an incredible discussion. Thank you both for sharing and in this way. Please keep pounding away at this as you are. I will reach out to volunteer. I resonate 100%. Thanks again, I can’t say more how I appreciated both your minds and efforts in this mentoring this necessary change.
Nate Hagens! I was a big fan of his writing on the Oil Drum (I think that was the name) back in the mid naughts. Always had a sense this is a guy that really cares.
Excellent conversation. I've opted to call the global human collective a "supra-organism optima" rather than a "superorganism" for a few reasons. First, humanity simply does not fit under the definition of a superorganism because an agent within a superorganism cannot survive outside of the collective for an extended period of time; but a single human can. Granted, it's not an easy task (see Survivor, Naked and Afraid, Alone, Dual Survival, etc.), but humans are capable of surviving alone for extended periods of time. Second, though humans are capable of surviving alone, we cannot attain a state of self-actualization or self-transcendence without a social unit. We are social creatures and we require a social structure in order to become our best possible selves. This element of humanity is a key ingredient to our existence. So - that is why I have chosen to use the term "supra-organism optima". We are a social creature that need each other in order to optimize, but not necessarily to survive.
Can't wait for part 2, thank you Daniel and Nate! My first time seeing Nate and I see I'm not alone as the sub count was under 2K when I subbed. Hello fellow friends who are seeking to hold both the outrage and appreciation for beauty in equal measure :)
Great video. I call them "replace-ables" now. "Renewables" I think was a PR strategy. "Replaceables" because they do need to be replaced/restored. They don't just "renew" themselves.
Thankyou Nate for your inspirational work. We need a global network of well qualified highly motivated activists like yourself, & the guests you introduce, to somehow impact the decisions of the global power elite & ensure that some of us will survive the global disruption in the decades ahead. Despite the IPCC output being based upon the best science, it fails to motivate nations to implement (promised) safety measures to slow down the disruption & environmental destruction, & incorporate more alternative clean energy.
There was a lot of earnestness on display in this conversation. These guys are obviously intelligent and articulate. I think it's too late for voluntary solutions. Nature is going to take care of this mess by eliminating most if not all humans in the next 500 years.
Great to see Danial in a conversation with a guy who has more knowledge than he on this particular topic as there's no better interlocutor than Daniel to bore in on the new info he's getting (and undoubtedly absorbing).
Thank you for having this conversation. I really love the idea of completely axing the tax on labor and implementing a heavy tax on consumption instead. Regarding the point toward the end that nations won't be willing to put themselves at a competitive disadvantage by proper pricing via taxation, what about a border adjustment tax as proposed by Citizens' Climate Lobby, the Climate Leadership Council, etc.?
I've been following daniels work very closely, trying to get my own mind around the complexity and distill it for others. Thanks for the great take on energy, that put a few pieces together in my mind. That's what it's all about - amplifying the message.
Thank you both for your service. What an important conversation. I'm particularly interested in the comment by Nate in around minute 46 describing solutions for a move into the post-growth era. As it relates to new technologies being introduced, especially Quantum Resource Extraction and Recycling.
Nate ran through Vaclav Smil's work in a concise and eloquent burst. Oddly, it seems as though educated people from 1900 onwards haven't had energy in the forefront of their minds. Of course, the players always have understood the marriage of energy and technology. Certainly, it's of foremost importance for ordinary people in their daily lives whether they recognize it or not. Our clique attends the same libraries. How do we make more people thirst for crucial, mundane knowledge? Expanding our culture will take generations, and there will always be obstacles. I am reminded of Karl R. Popper's "The Open Society & Its Enemies." If Plato were here now, he might not initially understand our energy systems or technology, but he would surely find the discourse excruciatingly familiar.
Great talk Nate and Dan, love your work! What we need are "models" for better ways to live, that are all inclusive, but function in, cooperation/congruence with current systems and leaves no one behind. Win, win, win systems that tackle, climate crisis, inequality/poverty, food security, safety, high quality of living for everyone. Solution: A volunteer based system owned, managed and run for and by the people. A veritable Agrarian Altruistic Utopia. I call it Social Democratic Capitalism (SDC) or Socio-economic and Environmental Evolution (SEE). Model 1 is here, let's create more and get them out guys!? Leo Lentz.
Thanks for putting this out Nate. I have to pause every few minutes to think about what is being said, and it will likely take a me a few weeks to begin to have a grasp somewhat you're saying. I had never heard of Daniel Schumachtenberger, but he is now on a list of thinkers I need to look at. Thank you for bringing this energy perspective to the conversation. I am not sure there is an implementable solution to our human predicament, but I am reasonably sure that any solution which ignores energy will fail. Maybe your illumination of the problem will help better minds than mine work towards a solution.
I do that too! I've been listening to Daniel for several years now, and think he is the most perspicacious thinker of our time. You must check out his interviews on the Rebel Wisdom channel. This my first intro to Nate and I am very appreciative of his ability to describe in a fairly simple way, the Energy Blindness phenomenon.
@@barbcarbon9440 Sure! Steven Pinker and Johnathon Haidt profoundly changed the way I think about how humans work. Robert Sapolsky and Richard Dawkins helped me develop a rudimentary understanding of biology. E.O. Wilson and the evolutionary psychologists that came after revolutionized how I think about evolution. I haven't read even a fraction of what all these guys have written, but they all changed how I view the world in some way or another. Your turn.
I saw your "Earth and Humanity: Myth and Reality" video a couple of weeks back and it blew me away. I lost your channel I guess although I had saved the video and shared to multiple friends. Then this pops up! Subscribed and excited to see more, keep up the good work.
That was fab! What minds you have. There are so many insightful gems all the way to the end, even though some of us (like me) will find some niche language difficult until we have learned more. I think there are actually many of us waking to this need to find and plan the bend. But I’m concluding that, because of the imperative of the super-organism, we will have to organise and network for local, interconnected resilience from below now. Because the ecological impacts including GHGs, will now dictate events, and the humans most invested in the super organism will be the last to let go.
Energy is everything! Society is influenced by availability and cost of energy. And the manner of energy's source, and how it is utilized. It is the bedrock of all organisms.
Small point: Something like 46% of a barrel of oil is used for gasoline yes, but that's not what the shipping/transportation industry runs on so you need to add diesel and other fuels which account for 26%, putting you at 72% of the oil going towards (non-jet) fuels.
This is very interesting, michael saylor and Robert breedlove had this same conversation in the saylor series in the what is money show, the economic solution being bitcoin, and thjs podcast more focussing on energy itself rather than money.
fourth law of thermodynamics/maximum power principle/Kleiber's Law 18:53 Haber-Bosch process/700% increase in animal biomass 30:09 what's in a barrel of oil 1:10:28
Small point about the barrel of oil: Something like 46% is used for gasoline yes, but that's not what the shipping/transportation industry runs on so you need to add diesel and other fuels which account for 26%, putting you at 72% total of the oil going towards (non-jet) fuels.
Fantastic conversation. There is a simple way to prosocialise and it involves understanding humanity as a conscious organism and culture defining our behavior. Promote altruism, organize altruism with Free Collaboration Networks and teach others to promote and organize altruism.
Bill Mollison's book Permaculture- A designers manual, takes a deep dive in the false promises of modern agriculture. Bruce Charles "Bill" Mollison was an Australian researcher, author, scientist, teacher and biologist. In 1981, he was awarded the Right Livelihood Award "for developing and promoting the theory and practice of permaculture".
Energetic conversation! After listening to you guys, I have more energy than before, you count as one of the good sources. Embrace from Buenos Aires, following up both, and ready to help spreading your nutritive interchanges. Thank you.
Immensely good. Defer the 2nd marshmallow! All my life, in my subtle way, both as a 2 bit politician and as a writer/artist, I have tried to encourage smaller marshmallows, knowing, and finding, it is hard, if not impossible to resist not only that one more fat, and we might say burning pile of sugar. Then there are the shiny apples. Gibran tried I guess, maybe Thoreau, others. Besides fighting the power of the predominant growth paradigm, the agenda of those genes just keep pounding. Still, some can defer, maybe you two, the creeping knowledge and thread that needle. Here in the upper Midwest, I see a glimmer with many who are, almost intuitively, grasping and holding a different vision. Push gentlemen on; you are on to something---and have to be.
