Darth vader did not deserve to be saved? 

Anakin was saved. Not Vader

He didn’t deserve to live afterwards, but he earned his redemption

The story is ultimately more about who Luke is as a character. He believed it could be done, so he risked everything on the chance the Vader would make the right decision in the end. The expanded universe does have moments where Luke actually does consider some people irredeemable. He vaporized them.

I don't think you get it. Yes, Anakin was willingly and consciously committing vile acts in episode 3. But he did all of that for the power he desired to save Padme. Once she was dead, the emperor pretty much had him stuck in that suit. The suit is made to be weak to electricity and painful to wear. The emperor could kill him with the flick of a switch if he wanted, just like Watto had that chip that could blow up Anakin's head. Anakin was once again a slave

It you remember in Revenge of the Sith! Padme says to Obi Wan there is good in him, I can feel it! Even Luke saw good in Vader! The title Return of The Jedi refers to a Anakin returning as a Jedi! If he had not saved Luke, Luke would have been dead! The love of his son bought him back! Just because you’re redeemed, that doesn’t absolve you from your bad deeds!

You lost me with your incredibles take. Syndrome is evil. He wasn’t hunting criminals, he was hunting people like a cat playing with its prey. He would take super heroes to the island and study them beforehand to deliberately kill them. What you’re describing as criminal, Mr incredible, doesn’t deserve death. As for Darth Vader, I agree that he is probably one of the most evil characters in history. He casually murders and justifies those murders based purely on his own personal beliefs. However, I think the idea of his redemption is rooted in religious belief that no matter how far you go into darkness you can always turn back to good. If Vader couldn’t turn to good then Luke would have failed on his quest to liberate the galaxy from the evil empire. Though I think redeeming him completely, and erasing all his misdeeds for one good deed is jarring. It does give a lot of hope in the forgiveness of God (or in Star Wars’ case the force I guess).

That's not how it works man. That's why Luke is said to be the greatest Jedi of all time, the true embodiment of the light side of the force by forgiving his father and offering him a second chance. Forgiveness is NOT about whether or not you deserve it.

You don't understand 🤦🏾‍♂️

I think everyone has talked to death the whole “you don’t get it” thing, but something I’ve always thought about was that being Vader *IS* Anakin’s punishment, *THAT* is his consequence for being so evil. He gets to be exactly what he chose to be, no sith is without their ugly scars and shame. Vader’s immense power comes from his intense hatred toward himself, you kinda have to dig into the comics and such a bit, but Vader is very much not doing as he pleases, he destroyed Alderaan as show of force against the rebellion, as the planet was a hub for rebellion support. He did it strategically, not to have something to maniacally laugh about. He does it as his duty to the cause he has fought for since he became Vader. Vader tells Luke it is too late, not necessarily because Vader is who Anakin truly wants to be, but because he has strayed so incredibly far from Anakin Skywalker that even Obi-Wan refers to his old Padawan as *dead*. The whole “I destroyed Anakin Skywalker.” Thing isn’t just to sound cool, it is because there little to no trace of Anakin left UNTIL Luke showed up. Up until then he was the second in command of the Empire, he saw his actions as mere duties to the preservation of the Galactic Order. There are traces of Anakin in there, but only the parts that fuel the Vader identity, raw anger, sadness, and fear. No sith can truly let go of who they once were because it robs themselves of the greatest source of power they can conjure up, hatred towards themselves for their actions in pursuit of said power. It’s a “monkey’s paw” type thing, you get what you want but at a cost. Nothing can excuse Anakin/Vader’s actions, even if it was a “I was following orders” thing. However I’d argue, even though he does bring balance to the force in the end, he isn’t forgiven, but he is redeemed for being strong enough to overcome the continuous digging of his own hole deeper, to take out the root cause of the Fall of the Republic and Order 66.

Being good means forgiving those even when they don't deserve it

I do agree that he made his choices, but some of Vader's decisions were the result of the emperor grooming him since childhood. Remember, while he trained as a Jedi, he was also befriending the Emperor since he was a kid. Anakin didn't realize the depth of his manipulation until late in life, post-RotS and continued doing evil because he felt he had nothing left except service to his master until he found Luke. Luke was his redemption in his eyes. And as for why Vader was redeemed, George Lucas had issues with his own father, hence the rivalry between Luke and Vader is a parallel of that, and Lucas managed to make peace with his father and he implemented that into the story.

You are correct, Vader did not deserve to be redeemed at all. However that's the beauty of mercy. Luke was the one person who believed his father could change, he gave him the chance over and over, and Vader recognized that. It was because some one believed in him that he realized he didn't have to be bad, Luke granted him a peace he did not deserve. Thats whats so powerful about Luke, he gave Vader a second chance, which is something we all need. And there was a character who was irridemable, Sideous, who could NEVER be redeemed. All of this being said your version of ROTJ sounds really cool and is more realistic.

I do like the idea of Vader dying a villain as long he still saves his son because I think it's in character for him to do that maybe force Luke to kill him after Vader saves since he refuses to be a good guy

Of course he deserved to be saved: Disney would have nothing to destroy if he wasn't

Nah Vader’s redemption was perfect. He was able to be redeemed and still suffered the consequences of his actions. Vader spent years as a burnt husk trapped inside a painful metal coffin, he lost his brother and the love of his life, and even though he saved his son, Vader still died in the process.

I think Vader's redemption was perfect, he was manipulated into being a Sith, used by Palpatine to cause havoc and fear across the galaxy, not to mention that Palpatine made the suit worse for Vader. He lost Padme, he got burnt alive by Obi-Wan who he saw as a father-figure in a sort of way, and after the fight with Obi-Wan on the death star, Yoda felt Vader's emotions, how Anakin was trapped and only became sadder when his former Master died. The only thing he wanted to do was save Padme, but when she died, he got hopeless, he blamed Obi-Wan and fought him. He lost his "brother", friend, lover, wife, life, in the matter of hours. He blamed himself for his mothers death after leaving her on Tatooine. He didn't know how to process his emotions and Palpatine took advantage of that, and used it against him.

I think Vader's worst thing he did was Project Blackwing, Imperial Bioweapons Project I71A. The zombie virus from Death Troopers. Upon seeing this video's thumbnail, I thought it was about Vader being the mastermind in that.

And to add to that, he did all that to save his wife. I know that you had to save your wife, but killing other innocents won't help it. What he did got to be the most selfish act we ever seen.

I judge a villain this way. How much heart they have. One who does not have any sort of love or compassion is one that is beyond redemption. No matter what their actions, if they still have a spark of those two things in their heart they are not irredeemable. Palpatine however had no real love or compassion and only cared for himself.

The vast vast majority of villains in fictions don't deserve redemption. The idea of redemption is fine for minor offenders, but there's a point where it just becomes absurd. Still, since Vader died in the act of doing the right thing, its a fair trade off, he recognized his wrongs and then croaked, no pointless trials, no silly life in prison sentences, death is the only suitable end of a redemption story with regards to someone who's done that many horrible things. Now if it were a serial cooky thief seeking redemption, I say they can live after their redemption..... unless it was my cookies they stole of course, I'd show no mercy.

Anakin and vader in the movies deserves nothing like a redemption. He choose to do evil to hold onto padme. He was selfish the entire time to control others

I think the message was that even someone who has always made the evil choice is not trapped into always doing that. Every choice is an opportunity to change. Even after a lifetime of evil there is still the opportunity and option to stop and change.

I think Darth Vader's name should have been dark gravy

“The redemption of Anakin Skywalker is only significant to his son. The idea is that the redemption is not of Darth Vader for what he’s done, because he’s irredeemable for the atrocities he’s committed, but it’s redemption by his son. It’s the redemption in the eyes of his son and the fact that he’s able to save his son. The son is willing to accept the father’s redemption and the father being redeemed by the son is a symbolic act, more than a literal act. The galaxy would never forgive him for what he’s done.”-George Lucas

So, did Anakin deserve redemption but not Darth Vader? It's a question of whether the dark side makes one lose themselves completely like those who commit crimes due to brain tumors that forced them to.

Anakin was confronted by a child who called him by name and did not pose a threat to him. His first reaction was to ignite his lightsaber and attack. Imagine the stomach it would take to kill all those children at close range. How does killing a room full of children help Padme anyways? I don't think Vader was redeemed. If he hadn't died in RoTJ he would have disappointed Luke. His attack on the Emperor was a selfish act, saving his son because Luke is HIS son (and because the Emperor wanted to replace him).

I mean yeah he didn’t deserve redemption but killing the emperor was the ultimate redemption tbh that is had Disney not changed the lore

you don't get to be saved after you killed hundreds of childs and innocents just because you want to...plus Anakin was emotionally silly. You don't save an idiot/murderer.

As a 40K fan, Vader is pretty tame. Ever heard of a virus bomb, second step of a virus bombing is lighting the atmosphere on fire, so Vader is pretty low on level of evilness

I think him killing the younglings was too extreme. It really wasn't necessary to include anything that sinister. Vader's redemption now indirectly suggests that child murder is a forgivable act. For a franchise that was originally aimed at children, that is quite unsettling.

I think the reason people think Vader deserves redmemtion Is because we follow him from kid to adult seeing his good traits and his bad traits and his fears learning almost everything about him The simple answer is that we see him as very complex person But if we just saw him with no back story and how he was before he was in the suit we would nok like him. But yes vaders is an Evil guy with only tiny parts of his old good self left

darth vader is not angry. he is broken.

I agree that Vader should save his son without becoming a force ghost because it makes it seem like everything is forgiven when he was an evil guy who destroyed many lives I don't think he has atonement for his actions let's not forget however the darkside is a supernatural force that corrupts you once you choose to start that path

I used to think that way bit with Star wars message even in the darkness of absolute evil there's always a sliver of of the light

TBF George has gone on to confirm that the only person who actually thought Vader was “redeemed” was Luke. Everyone else still hates him for what he did and justifiably so. George has even claimed that Anakin isn’t really meant to be viewed as a victim but rather a sad pathetic man who fucked up his own life.

Thats the point. He was evil. But in the end Luke lived him and saved him anyway. None of us deserves redemption. Thats why its so beautiful. To forgive is to forgive the unforgivable

Nice one. Good scenario and well thought out!

As crazy as it sounds, you have to remember that Vader's redemption was never about "deserves". It was based on the fact that his son wanted to save him. Even if we equated Vader to Hitler, would anyone refuse Hitler an opportunity to come to his senses and turn away from evil, even in his last moments? Anyone would hope the same for themselves, should they come under judgement of God.

Good video that made me subscribe

It was anakin who died on that space station and killed the emperor not darth vader

TCW and the Disney trash like Rebels are so shallow compared to the absolute beauty of the Republic or Purge comics from the old EU. Now THAT'S an unredeemable Vader and better portrayal of the Clone Wars.

I don't agree. Mr incredible may count as a crimina,l but there is nothing to show the heroes sindrom killed had broken the law before he contacted them. Davey Jones I can't really argue about with , but vader thought the same as Jones even after killing the emperor. He was aware of his wrong doing but he never changed because he never forgives himself. Vader and Anakin are rarely spoken like they are the same person .vader is Anakin but that isn't the real him unlike the other sith except duku, he wasn't like that most of his life. Good vid though

I see it as low honor in rdr2 but you choose the good option. Its too late but you can do one last good act before you cash out. Tldr no he doesn't earn redemption he just does a good act is all.

Vader does kill a lot of people and I do agree that maybe he shouldnt have been refeemed however I keep hearing people say he killed millions which just isnt true... the deathstar was Tarkin and the other Imp officers

Is that a question boy or an statement?

I understand your point, but I don't agree. Don't get me wrong, there are characters and even real people that seem irredeemable, feeling like we understand these individuals can cloud judgment. Anakin was a slave, more than Luke ever was. Additionally, Luke's love for his father is what brought Vader back to the light, especially since he saw that Luke was willing to die for him.

well we arent luke so idk

If Obi-Wan was right, that no part of Anakin was left, then Vader would have let Luke die. The Sith are all about their own personal power. They are obsessed with immortality. They would rather cling onto life in agony like Maul after being cut in half by Obi-Wan on Naboo or Sion in Legends pulling himself back together after every fatal blow than die, because in their mind, all the pain and suffering is better than death. Holding onto their life in any shape is better than death. Vader knew doing what he did to save Luke would kill him. His suit made him vulnerable to Force Lightning. If he was completely gone, if Vader truly had erased any part of Anakin from within himself, he would have let Luke die rather than sacrifice himself because living as a broken man with nothing more to his life than being Sidious’s servant was still better than dying. The fact that he was willing to sacrifice his own life to save his son, to sacrifice all the power he had as a Sith Lord and the second most powerful man in the Empire just to save his son was an inherently selfless act. And that is Anakin’s story; his fall was due to the fact that he became wrapped up in selfish love. He wanted to save his wife, his mother, during the war his best friend/brother, and Padawan/little sister, but not so much for his own sake, but his own. He wanted to save them because of his need for them, to have them with him. It was only when Luke was dying that he finally learned the Jedi’s lesson about letting go. He saved Luke not out of a need to keep his son, not out of a desire to get back at Sidious for what he had done to him, not because he needed a student/apprentice, but simply because he wanted his son to live and have the life he deserved. And this time, he was willing to give up his own needs to do so, something he hadn’t been able to do for Padme. That’s the biggest difference between Vader/Anakin and your examples of Davy Jones and Syndrome: underneath all of the evil things he did, he still had the ability to choose to be good. He still had the capacity to make the choice and try to in some part atone for what he had done when Luke came to him selflessly offering up a chance to be forgiven and was willing to die to prove his father could be saved. The Syndrome comparison really falls apart because it overlooks and misconstrues a lot of the facts in the film. Yeah, Mr. Incredible and the other heroes may have been “breaking the law” in the strictest sense of the term in the sense that they were violating the rule banning their super-heroics, but to call them villains for it is a massive jump. They weren’t going out and k*lling people or stealing form them; they were going out to try and help people, even at risk to their own well-being, either by prosecution or injury to themselves. They were still trying to do good. Syndrome, on the other hand, was not this “benevolent benefactor”. His reasons for wanting to make everyone “super” was purely selfish. He wanted to get back at Mr. Incredible for rejecting him, showing off he could be a better hero than him, and to make money. He wanted to establish himself as Syndrome not to genuinely save people, but to market his technology. He wanted to show off what he could do, so people would want to buy his stuff so they could be like him. Becoming Syndrome was effectively just an overly-complex advertising campaign. He k*lled the heroes who were actually trying to help people just to make his super robot better than before. Their crime was trying to be heroes and help people. And yeah, he may not have actively intended to hurt people when he unleashed his robot or cause them to die, but he certainly didn’t care if they did. Releasing that robot into a crowded city is a HUGE risk, even if it was all a choreographed scheme. The damage it caused could cause people to become severely wounded or die. Yet, he was willing to do so just to make his plan work. Did Vader do a bunch of horrific crimes, causing many millions to die? Yes. If he had lived, did he deserve to face punishment for it? Absolutely. But in the end, the whole point of his story was to show that no matter how far you fall, no matter what terrible things you do, it is never too late to try and atone. It is never too late to try and make amends or realize you have done terrible things and try to fix them/repair the damage or at least try to mitigate it. It doesn’t erase what you did, but it still goes to at least trying to somewhat make things right. Most religions, even if a person lives a terrible life and harms a lot of people, they still usually pray for the soul of the person in hopes of being forgiven. If Vader had somehow survived saving Luke and k*lling the Emperor, he probably still would have been executed for his crimes against the galactic population, and it would probably be deserved. But in his mind, it probably still would have been worth it for his son’s forgiveness and to know that, at least in the end, he rejected the darkness and could die at peace with himself.

he was the choosen one to bring balance to the force, not save the galaxy, like yoda said "A Prophecy, that Misread, Could Have Been", there was thousand of jedi and only a handfull of sith, he killed all the jedi except 2 (obiwan and yoda), and there was only two sith left (him and palpatine), this is real balance

I think it's how the movie portrayed it too. He sneered at those younglings as he activated his lightsaber. Imagine how the scene would have been if he said I'm sorry with tears coming down his face as he did the horrible deed. You'd still get the impression that he'd still do anything to save his wife, but he is sorry. He cries a bit later, but even his conversation with Padme doesn't reflect that. He didn't say "I did what I did to protect you and while I'm so sorry, I'd do it again to save you." In the original draft, Anakin was going to kill a Jedi peacefully meditating, an unarmed person not defending herself. It was Lucas who decided he should kill younglings. Don't say he was capable of it after killing the tuskins. They tortured his mother which doesn't make it right in the slightest, but they are the enemy. He most likely taught the Jedi younglings. They looked up to him and all he had for them was a sneer and a lightsaber.

it´s about the concept of REDEMTION as in religion, we are not worth to live but God in his wisdom he love us even with all our sins but in order to be saved we must repent in our soul even after a lifetime worth of sins same concept George Lucas apply Anakin is the Chosen one, he will bring balance to the Force and he DOES after Luke show him the right path and in the end, by the eyes of the Force he fulfill his destiny you don´t need to acknowledge as we do, maybe with time you do

100% agree. Vader caused the suffering of billions, even trillions across the galaxy but his son forgave him so it's all good. Lazy writing George Lucas.

The scene you play with episode 6, is a poor example. This is before the final battle, He assumed there was no hope to defeat the empire.. He had hope but it he was under watch unable to do anything. There is a reason you got 30+ dislikes. You are taking a steamy mess on good starwars and supporting the lies disney is pushing. Those who shrink your kind on the movie posters. Then you bash good the incredibles... yeah... i can already see why your community is against you.

Nope, he didn't. Luke didn't know him as a person at all and he had killed many people, including other Jedi and even kids. He also did cut Luke's hand as if he couldn't disarm him in any other way. He was toying with Luke the whole time, there was no reason to cut off his hand and then tell him that he is his father. Asshole attitude across the board.

I guess in a way it questions the morality of the force like knight of old Republic 2 did. If someone is bad as Vader can be forgiven/ redeemed why can't everyone else who did less. Kinda how and Christianity where it says that "vengeance is not yours but god's".

Agreed 💯

The kid was a slave his wholee life much like Maul but Anakin was a slave from birth than a slave to the jedi than to the Empier but at least he found peace and some redemption and I felt like it was his destiny to fall and rise again but there are lots of relegions that the say it's never to late the force thought different as other relegions say

You say he didn't got punished.One word suit.My man eated his on poop constantly, had constant pain and coudnt even sleep.

A very interesting video. Very unusual 😉 even. Star Wars is a hopeful Story of the Good Guys defeating the Evil Empire and bringing peace and freedom to the galaxy 🌌 If Vader died as a monster, Luke would turn to the dark side, become the next apprentice and the emperor would crash the Rebellion in a final stroke. Hardly a movie 🎥 you want to re-watch. Yes, Darth Vader did a lot of terrible things under the rule of the emperor. But you forget, that EVERYBODY who turns to the dark side of the force becomes a Monster (Malak, Dooku, Maul) so Darth Vader is not really the embodiment of Evil, that Everybody in the galaxy thinks he is. The one Person he hates more then anything else is: himself. And if you want to punish him: his Life as Vader was a living Hell for Anakin Skywalker. Mr.Giles said it the best: „Forgiveness is an act of compassion, Buffy. It‘s not done because somebody deserves it. But because he needs it.“ And Darth Vader was killed at the end, it‘s hardly a happy End or 🏆 for his Crimes. But very interesting video, very amusing 😅

If I learn anything from Luke journey is that killing Vader and becoming Vader are the same thing ultimately it would just be the Emperor victory who is the purest evil villain of Star Wars will just have a replacement of someone worst. I forgive Anakin Skywalker the boy from tattoine and the Jedi Hero but not Darth Vader because to me and George Lucas agrees take the armor and cybernetic and illusion of power you have a cripple,sad,PATHETIC,sick old man he not a villain he’s a slave. I’m not excusing his actions he got what he deserves is death the only solace he gets was he son was there with in the end and die as Anakin Skywalker. However if I pick a villain didn’t deserve to be saved is Kylo ren I know we ain’t talking about the Disney trilogy but I have to point this out he killed billions,kills his own dad,rejects redemption two times and the reason he turn to the dark side is and I Kidd you not was He did not like his name Ben Solo.

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Excellent take!