David & Ed Wants All The Smoke: An Honest Review Of Shang Chi and The Ten Rings 

Why did you like or dislike the film? curious to hear your points. I can already tell people are in their feelings lol because it's not "OK" to haven an opinion about a movie that's been pushed with a racial agenda. Representation is not a reason a film is good. It feels great to have our people on the screen but I'm going to watch it like I watch every MCU film or any movie in general. We did that enough with crazy rich Asians and I'm over it. I will say this as stated in the pod, 10/10 would recommend watching this film.

Look, man, I don’t care what yall say! The karaoke bit was a perfect ending button and that’s that!

Shang Chi's relationship to his father is more complicated than "he hated him" and "his father was still nice to him". He admired his father, loved his father, needed his father to care about the family, needed his father to properly raise and take care of him and his sister. Instead? His father through his own grief dedicated his time and energy to revenge and to the ten rings. He then shoved all of those expectations onto his son through the training and the mission to kill their mother's killers.You can see traces of that mixed affection/apprehension in their head touch when they first met. The main character growth is Shang chi resolving his conflict with his father and realizing that his purpose isn't to kill his father but that he is as the trailer says "his mother and whether he likes it or not he is also his father". He decides to embrace both, embrace and begs for his father to return to the family DESPITE the fucked up things he's done. And this is honestly just a dramatized version of how a lot of Asian Americans feel about their parents right? We know they love us. We know they often even have good intentions. But their single mindness in deciding the trajectories of our lives and having us live out their goals and desires can often hurt the family relationship more often than not.

I feel like you guys came in wanting to not like the movie.

There was nothing wrong with the karaoke at all. I thought you guys were a bit odd for nitpicking that part of the movie. Like shit, it’s just karaoke lol.

Karaoke, the word originate from Japan, and because Japan actually colonized many countries like China including Taiwan and Korea so that entertainment culture actually stick with a lot of Chinese. so a lot of people still go to karaoke as a way of distress. So it's not just a Filipino and Korean thing it's actually quite popular among all Asian cultures.

puts a child through abusive training to become a murderer. David: Why is shang chi such an asshole to his great dad!?

Like a bunch of other folks in the comments here I'm a bit confused how my perception of the movie is so different from y'alls. There are definitely places where you just have to accept why decisions are made but it didn't bother me that much. Perhaps it was cause y'all are comedians so seeing those places of dissonance are gonna feel more obvious. But like many others here, the movie felt authentic and made me feel emotional in a way I can't really describe. This hit way harder for me than Crazy Rich Asians in terms of feeling seen as an Asian American. Honestly the movie definitely uncovered some shit from my childhood and my relationship with my parents that I've always run from. BTW I fucking love Karaoke and am not Korean or Filipino

Oh man. I always enjoy these reviews. That said, I'm not done with the whole video, but David's first critique about the car, yes I could see that, but it could also lead the the fact that maybe the director was trying show that Shang (Simu) isn't living up to their potential. They reference it at their dinner with their friends. But we already know why Shang doesn't want to be more. But man, I love you guys, but maybe open up a bit more. Shang chi was 14 yrs old, who at that time, watched his mom get murdered. Got trained to be an assassin, and killed a person. At that young of an age, anyone with conflicting morals would run away and not go back to a murdererous father and crime organization. I'll finish this video and see how I feel. Edit: All valid points during the review. Reflecting on the issues you guys brought up i think maybe all the missing backstory and character filler was rushed. Let's not forget this was filmed during the pandemic, I think.

Damn you guys nitpick the movie so hard that some of the questions that you have were actually answered in the movie but you missed it being so nitpicky about it which is weird.

Love you David but Chinese people love karaoke as much as Korean or Filipino people

The film is about forgiving people. The kids have to learn to forgive their father for their childhood, the father learns to forgive himself because all he wanted was their mother back, going to extremes for her. And then there’s Awkwafina. I mean other than Awkwafina’s arc, there’s a lot to unpack here. But I admit it took me until the 2nd time to really understand their character arcs. The fighting is fantastic. And I really just love the family dynamic here

The sister made it pretty clear she wanted to rule. At the fight club she said "If my dad won't let me into his empire I'll make my own". Even the costume design showed she was different from everyone else (she was wearing white, LITTERALLY everyone else was wearing red) which was very telling and odd.

"This is what Mulan wanted to be" is how I felt about the whole movie in terms of fight choreography and cultural homage

I'm about halfway through the video here, and I agree on your stance that the film has a lot of holes. But when you said that the father figure was loving to his son, I would have to disagree. He made his son train until his knuckles bled. He made his young son witness the revenge filled murder of a gang, then asks him if what he did was right, which came off more as a threat to me. He made his son into a killer. His son never got to decide his life, his father chose everything for him. That's why he ran away, because his father controlled everything in his life. Now his father chases him down, sacrificing or risking the lives of some his best trained men to kidnap his son and daughter instead of just telling them he thinks their mother is still alive? They sit down for dinner and again lectures his son what his mantle should be in life. The only point in the film where the son accepts the mantle of the 10 rings is when his father literally dies. His father never processed the death of his wife and became emotionally cold towards his family. He is abusive and controlling, not loving.

I remember from the last podcast where you were taking about Simu Liu and said the reason shang chi didn't have a Chinese release is because Simu got offended and said the film wasn't for the Chinese market. I looked into it and that was false and really makes him look bad to anyone who watched the podcast and didn't look into it.

14:20 I thought their whole point was that they didn't have to change to fit in with the model minority norm...... that they ended up doing something amazing without having to conform to the stereotypical asian american profession like becoming a lawyer to be happy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I liked it cause I felt like even though the main characters didn't fundamentally change, the world they were in did. I also didn't think Neither Katy nor Shang-Chi had too many big flaws that needed fixing at the beginning of the film. In the end he stopped hiding from his past and it seems that she decided to do something concrete, all be it not too clear, with her life. Loved hearing your take on it though 🙌 Constructive criticism is always necessary and a good thing

You guys say you wanted to like this movie but you really didn't, you brushed it off as soon as it was announced calling it sheng chai, you made fun of the action figure, you nit picked the trailer opening, nit picked a lot of the movie, like why would shang chi want the 10 rings and immortality and why he would go find his sister (they explained it in the movie but your negative mind set made you not pay attention), and didn't bother to watch it twice the same way you did with mulan, you went in with a negative mind set from the start and thats exatly how youre gonna see it. You formed an option before the movie was even released.

seen the movie several times now and loved it every time, I don’t think I’ve seen the audience cry so much in a marvel movie before 😂😂

I legit was blown the fuck away, but, had no context before hand. Also, I know you dudes are from Cali, so your perspective of film is probably deeper than mine, but holy shit, I was on the brink of tears the entire time.

I think you guys are missing the point that the mom was killed because her husband is the mandarin - he did some shit in his past and it came to haunt him. I feel like Shang Chi noticed this and was the reason for him rejecting the initial proposal to become the next mandarin.

I just finished watching this Film yesterday. It was an amazing film, in my opinion. The fight scenes were amazing! I heard it was Jackie Chan's stunt team and directors that over saw the fighting, which blew my mind. But like every marvel movie, they try not to take themselves too seriously and had a few funny moments but to me it felt so forced and unnecessary and didn't feel organic enough.

Listening to the criticism - after watching the movie 3 days ago. So I'll make notes to what y'all are saying and how you are arguing. (Or at least try to keep up. I'm sure nobody will read all of this anyways, but meh. It's monday and I don't have anything better to do.) Point : Martial Art Kung Fu - Agreed. The martial art choreographies were top notch. Kinds of which we have not seen for a long time. I'm talkin bout old Jet Li, Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan movies (which usually add a little bit of humor to it). Tony Leung - There is nothing more to say. He is a Hong Kong Legend. The Drama's he's been were AMAZING. And he kept his level. Fala - Never seen a movie with her. She did a great job though. Fight Scene Tony & Fala - For those who know, Scenes like that were very common in old classics like "Hero" with Jet Li or "House of the Flying Daggers". It was beautiful adaption of traditional chinese martial arts cinematography to modern action film. Missed Car Joke - I believe they tried to put a comedic side to the movie, to display a comparison between a "hard working but broke" main character and whatever the other guy coming of the car is suppose to represent. It seemed more like they wanted the audience to WANT that the guy in the car is Shang-Chi, which it obviously wasn't. Character developlement. I heavily disagree on that. Shang-Chi as well as Katy have both realized that there's more potential in them than what they wanted to believe. Katy became determined, pushing through with her actions, e.g. shooting the arrow. Shang Chi became aware that his hurt is the same he shared with his dad, just that both of them processed it differently. While one was running away the other one was seeking revenge. I genuinely believe that they came back together to the same bar and karaoke because their developement manifested on the inside, instead of having to have it be "very obvious". Also they became a romantic couple, which I personally REALLY didn't see coming in the beginning of the movie. Further Character development. I don't understand yall attacking the development of Shang Chi. He CLEARLY didn't want anything to do with his father in the beginning. Only returned to his roots because we was tricked into warning his sister and revealing himself. The moment when they were sitting by the water at night and he said "I'm gonna kill my father" was far beyond what he had intended to do in the beginning. And that at the end he understood that his father himself couldn't let go of the mother, and had to watch his dad die, while trying to forgive him for all his mistakes. If that isn't a development, then i don't know. His return: Ehm... he got the letter? He HAD to return to save his sister, which he believed was in danger. Like...how could y'all complain about that? No he did NOT think she is dead, because he received the letter.(which was fake) Missed jokes: We saw the movie in Original English Version in Germany. People laughed. Dunno what the issue was here. Okay here is my issue with YALL. You ASSUMED that the father killed the mother personally. I didn't. I could tell that there is resentment, but not as to why. Okay. Turns out, it's the PAST of his dad, which haunted him/the family, leading to the mother being killed. As a RESULT the father forces Shang into cruel training. I genuinely believe nobody in Shangs position would want to "take the place by the side" of someone who handles power/loss like that. Critisicm to why Dad took so long, to find Tao Lo: He didn't have "the pet". The Mandarin did. The creature only showed himself to the Mandarin for how long he was captured. The Dad needed to hunt his children down for their pendant. The reason why Shang and the others found it so easiy was because of the pet. The Dad memorized the way to Tao Lo. If he wouldn't have known it, they'd have been killed by the moving trees as shown in flashbacks in the beginning. Point to the weapons: Also again heavily disagree. In the old stories of Sun Wukong, he also carried a stick with him, like Goku. The adaption of the movie to include Dragon Scale might have been a reach, but what else would you want old traditional martial artist to have? Guns? I think the choise of costume and weapons were very fitting to old an asian movie, which tries to have traditional touch. Like in Red Cliff Arrows were used, as well as shields. The only very very typical weapon for an asian martial arts film is a sword. Who/which trailer claimed this to be "the biggest war ever". I was actually quite relieved that it wasn't as big as EndGame or anything. It just showed how "personal" the story is suppose to be. The home of the dead mother which has to be defended. Short comings of death: I personally think the deaths of the old village master and ninja wouldn't have necesarily needed a "longer" playtime. The Ninja was something like the dark, painful shadow which Shang carried with himself. Yes, some confrontation again would have been pleasing for the eye and maybe even character development. I personally would have also liked to know if the Ninja played any bigger role, like a hidden idendity. But dying the way he did, was probably just a necessary evil for the movie to move on. Same goes for old Village chief. Someone who doubts Katy, but sees potential and tells her what to do. His death itself is short, yes. But Katy's grieving is long(er). I think that's a good compensation. Night scene : While I do agree that actualy footage of the assassination would have been nice, I was, in contrary to David, heavily impressed by Simu's acting. The way the focus and look in his eyes and entire face changed when he said he plans to kill his father. Gave me goosebumps. While I do understand why y'all wished there to be picture proof, I think that would've taken away our imagination. Let the viewer think of what the young Shang had to go through. I think what's being missed here is that Tony's character is in denial, imagining hearing his wife's voice while Shang actually saw his mother being killed. He had to experience what his own weakness could mean and because he was so young, he decided that going with his dad's decisions would be the best choise. After realizing that he had killed a man and that his mother would not be proud of him, he started to distance himself from his dad, from which he now realized he had been taught to do things his mother didn't approve of. His dad imagining his wife clearly also comes from trauma and decides that the only thing against weakness is more power. And what better power to be have than to conquer the one closes magical place there is. As yall say, Wen Wu "wasn't" a typical bad guy. And that was also the point of the movie, as Tony Leung in different interviews has stated himself. He wanted the dad to be potrayed to be someone who is misunderstood, grieving, in power and therefore utilizing his power in the wrong ways, without having an actual bad "intent". The mourning process. They did mourn in the end of the movie by the water. Do you expect him to have a funeral while a monster is attacking the other people, who see you as one of theirs? The sister: We didn't see but we HEARD. The said to Katy, "If I can't run the empire my dad had, Imma make myself an own one." The fact that she DID run a underground empire out of resentment from the abodenment and the fact that she DOES take over the 10 rings, instead of shutting it down, like Shang Chi said to their friends at the end, actually speaks to me that she still is very heavy on being on her own and trying to achieve what her dad achieved, without anybodys help, just like how she had to learn it. I genuinely do not understand what kind of "excuses" you both are talking about? I mean, yes it IS a marvelmovie. My best friend, who is an indian girl and whom I grew up with, enjoyed it as much as I did. We both had goosebumps. I am not going to say it was JUST as good as Black Panther or other Marvel Movies. But for itself, it was a solid, good marvel, action movie like the others... Or am I wrong here? I cared for Tao Lo. The big golden Lions? My parents ran a restaurant with statues EXACTLY like those lions in my childhood. It seemed like home, seing them "in real life". Yes Tao Lo was "small". But that's not necessarily something bad. And the fact that we didn't "bond" with Tao Lo, was because Shang Chi's life was mostly in San Fran. . It's interesting that y'all felt like you had to "wait" for someting to happen. Me and my friend felt like it was just right. There was always some input, always something to be involved with and then action and then little dialoges. Snippets of emotions. Nothing was CONSTANTLY on the screen, which made it pleasent for us to watch. The science magic part. I do understand the confliction because the dragon shells are not scientifically explained. But when they analyzed the rings they did say that it was something old and highly advanced, didn't they? Being able to explain every reason to every why seems highly difficult to me. It's interesting. I think if taken the Marvel thing away, I feel like I would have still liked the movie. I think you had very precise expectations to what this movie has to do and what it had to present. I just binged all marvel movies at home, because I didn't watch them over the past years. And I am NOT a big marvel fan. I can say there were some good one, but also some misses. I think Shang Chi is a good solid piece fitting into it. Just wanna put out, I obviously still respect yall opinions. Just agreeing to disagree.

I just Thumbed down this video after 15min and now I know why 600 other people agree as well.

Shang-Chi's mother died for his father's sins and that's why Shang resented him. After she passed, it was an eye for an eye, the wife for her husband's past crimes and if Wen Wu was really a changed man like Shang's mother had hoped for, then he would've let his criminal past go and be there for the family that needed him. Instead, he goes back to his old ways. The movie was about balance and even though Shang-Chi is the protagonist, it was really about his parents. Their open fist-closed fist dynamic and the power of letting go so that you may move forward. Shang's origin story, imo, is beautiful because he uses both halves of himself, in his mother's grace and forgiveness and his father's anger and power to be himself and the moment he "stopped pretending," and acknowledged his father in himself, he was able to channel that to be the hero

I agree with a lot of your points, but there's something about this podcast that rubs me the wrong way. It feels negative, self-righteous, and angry? I mean, I was also let down by the movie, but y'all can complain with a bit more grace. I really wished they highlighed the emotional aspect of being Asian American, but again, this is a Marvel movie. I truly don't expect Marvel to go into depth of their characters to the extent we would like. However, I thought it was an enjoyable watch and am thankful for the representation. Also, Karaoke is a Japanese word and is hecka popular in China, Japan, Taiwan, etc.

But they did change. Their new experiences changed them so much. Even the end credits was Wong telling them that their lives will never be the same any more...

I saw Shang-Chi with my husband (he is from China, and moved to the US two years ago) and this film albeit more western still had a familiar feel because it had many mandarin speaking parts. It made me feel proud actually even though I am not Chinese/Asian myself. We both found it was really enjoyable. Our favorite character was Wenwu and his scenes. We both thought he should have been the lead since he was just so captivating (if only he was younger 😭). Simu Liu is great in comedic roles but I don’t know about serious ones, but I am sure he will improve. I do wish people see that there are other heroic Asian film hero’s in media and that they have been paving the way long before Shang-Chi. Enjoyed the podcast!

These dudes can’t critically think for shit.

The dad was a grey coded character but at the end of the day he is a villain. At some point he tells his son, why didn't he save his mother when she was getting killed, he tells him "why did you just stand there?" Well because Sean was a child and you can tell he was cruel to his children. The sister at some point says he was a great dad before the mom died but after that he wasn't. Emotionally he checked out after the mom died and that severely affects the kids. He used Sean as part of his revenge. The dad was always a bad guy he lived for thousand of years and it's said he would do anything to get what he wanted. Okay when Sean is punching the stump thing the dad says "That's enough for today." meaning he made Sean train till he thought it was enough, it was obvious he was controlling over Sean's training.

Jealous bashing of a successful asian american production and cast. This is why the JK crew is falling quickly in a couple of years they wont even be able to make a living of it anymore too cynical and toxic.

Watch "The Farewell"! It's about an American Chinese girl who discovers her grandmother is terminal with cancer, but the whole family (except the protagonist) decides not to tell the grandma. Maybe Mariel will like the movie too! I was very close to my grandmother and I remember Mariel was also very close to hers :'(

In the context of his wife's death, Wen Wu asks his son Shang-Chi "why did you just stand there?" This literally is the crux of the entire movie. It reveals the true personality of the father - I mean how screwed up should your logic be to not be able to acknowledge the fact that you are holding a child, lemme say that again, literally a child responsible for the mother's death - when in fact the very reason why she was attacked in the first place was because she was married to him. And it also shows the helplessness of being a child and having to abide by and nod to everything a parent says (while you were child) - something that most Asian families relate with. It's not that Shang-Chi cannot communicate, like what @David So was mentioning in the video. It's the suppressive, repressive nature of the parent-child dynamic that exists in Asian cultures that is being brought to light. Once you cross the age of 21, you become an adult and things may be different. Because now you would have biologically grown just-enough to acquire all the faculties to understand the world better than a child. But everything that happened to Shan-Chi, happened when he was a child. So, you can't hold a child "responsible" for not protecting a mother from thugs, or for not being able to effectively communicate to his father that he was projecting all his emotional labor and selfish aspirations and accountabilities on to Shang-Chi, who once again was a little kid. It's just not right. Where I do agree with @David So is that the film should've expressed all these intricate family drama complexities in a more explicit manner. When you decide to make family drama the primary element of your movie, explicit is better than implicit. The director should've actually made it very crystal clear about the motivations of where did the hatred come from, and what makes Wen Hu more of a villain than just a normal guy trying to "save" his wife. I also agree that Simu Liu doesn't have a good range of expressions. He literally had like one expression throughout the movie. So, he needs to get better at being able to express a wide range of emotions. Simu does have fire in his eyes - something that the director has completely under-utilized and just straight-out ignored to capture. Tony Leung is a legend.

I didn't even watch the movie yet, but I knew you would give it a negative review overall by judging the tone of your last pod about Simu. Stop being so predictable lol.

I honestly think it's the dialogue and the pacing. Wenwu's criminal past was the reason Shang Chi's mom was killed. His father, who he had admired, never faced the consequences of his villainy while his innocent mom had to bear the brunt. I think Talou was supposed to reaffirm that someone would have to pay the consequences for his past. But that information is revealed too late in the film. Shang Chi comes across as a coward. He abandoned his sister. He lied to his friend. He left his father who was grieving over his mother. "Everything happens to me, I can only react" kind of vibe. It's supposed to be some breakout moment when Shang Chi reveals he is going to (attempt) kill his father (in the same scene he revealed about lying about killing that guy who killed his mom???) as being the physical embodiment of Wenwu's consequence but you question Shang Chi's morals instead. ESPECIALLY, since Kate (Awkwafina's character) feels like tepid water. She is supposed to be the audience. But she has no reaction to Shang Chi's declaration about killing someone, lying to her about it, and planning on killing yet another person, so the audience doesn't give a crap. It's pseudo morals. (Superhero movie consequences) I still love the movie. I think between the fight scenes, the nod to all the HK actors (so many Hong Kong actors and not a lick of Cantonese, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm), and the fact that it's a big screen feel good movie is great. My bar was so low after Mulan and the other attempts I was satisfied they didn't butcher it to unrecognizable means.

Saw this coming Lowkey lol These guys are “movie fans” not “mcu fans”. They may like mcu films, but I don’t see these guys watching breakdowns, theories, etc. They’ll watch every movie as strictly a movie and not a piece of a whole puzzle of a universe Yes there’s holes and character development was lacking but let’s look at captain America. First Avenger he was this stickler for the rules, always following orders, poster boy. In the end of the movie, same dude. Kind of a pansy. Cut to civil war, he’s literally disobeying orders and going against the government. We see his character realizing that sometimes the right thing to do is the “wrong thing”. Then cut to endgame after losing in infinity war, he’s found the middle ground and become the ultimate captain America. If they just gave Shang Chi his whole character development in one movie, that’s a gg for future films. Everybody didn’t care about Captain America at first, then as MCU went on, he’s the man. Almost more so than even Ironman. We’ll see where mcu takes Shang Chi.

WHAAAAAAT?! Karaoke is also a Taiwanese thing. Have you seen a tour bus full of Taiwanese grannies singing their heart out?! lol just wanted to get that out there. Also, Tony Leung CARRIED this movie. imo. I thought the movie was good. Not THE best, but good. I also really enjoyed seeing all the Asian mythical creatures. Definitely buying those plushies when i get the chance...

So the story of Katie is painted as someone with potential that does not live up to her full potential. Katie's family recognizes this and tries to push her out of her comfort zone to strive for something greater (career wise or family wise). She refuses. As the story progresses, she eventually speaks to Auntie who tells Katie a beautiful quote "If you aim at nothing, you hit nothing". Katie then learns a skill (bow and arrow), albeit in a single day, and she takes aims a shot at the evil dragon. She aimed at a very specific spot (the throat). You need to be very precise and accurate in where you aim in life. I thought this scene was beautiful because it shows that even a regular person (Katie) can alter the results of world changing events by just taking a shot (striving to be better than yourself). This is the beauty of people reaching their full potential and the reason why community is so important to help youngsters advance through life. Katie's help came from the auntie and the bow trainer.

Bro his dad committed multiple mass genocides and was going to commit another one 😂 the bad guy is always the one, in marvel movies, who kill and plan on killing lots of people

I also think because David and Ed also watch "better" Asian lead movies they're only using their particular pallet to "define" what a "good" Asian representation movie should be. However, I do think alot of what they claimed to be a bit one sided. A good example is how they don't think Shang-Chi should either hate or fear his father when it's shown thru the gambling scene in HK of Wenwu killing all the men in coldblood. Shang-Chi was like 10ish that time and it shows him how fearful he is of his father and what he can do. Along side of the abuse he had to go thru and finally killing a life at the age of 14. He ran away out of "fear" and "resentment" of what his father made him into and hence "Needs to stop my father" part. The whole "blood debt must be paid by blood" has a long lasting part of Chinese history (being Chinese American myself) it's one of oldest proverb that led brothers killing brothers and family seeking vengeance amongst family. Granted, there SHOULD be "more scenes" to properly explore this and NOT have the audience "piece it together" however it's been confirmed to be "longer scenes" and "deleted scenes" confirmed by the director and even Simu Liu. If David and Ed don't like it it's fine and they're entitled to their own opinions however I DO believe most of their rebuttal can be properly explained or debunked.

David, you made a really good point that something isn’t good just because it has representation. Which is why this episode sounds so foul. You are one of the figures of Asian-American youtubers, yet your unfair criticism of this movie tells me that, for a man who has done several films, you either have no eye to respectfully critique cinema, or you have some unresolved beef with Disney or Simu. I have watched your content for many years, and you have always uplifted Asian creators. There should be no reason for this crab mentality just because you and Ed aren’t get the bump that Simu and company is getting. Get off your high horse. If I sound wrong then why are you writing six paragraph essays down in the comments 🤔

Criticizing their acting from what merit? Y'all haven't acted in years. Lol this is a sad video full of salt.

The way I saw the relationship between Shang Chi and Wen Wu was a child carrying the emotional labour of the parent. Tony Leung's character felt the guilt of not protecting his wife despite having the means to (the rings) and is projecting it to the son. Simu Liu's plight is witnessing the traumatic event and hearing he could have prevented it, so he goes through the training as retribution. After the assassination he is either re-traumatized or the resentment explodes. It felt like a "if you love me you'd do this" vs. "if you loved ME you wouldn't MAKE me do this" back and forth. I don't doubt the loving father part at all, but see it as an aspect of manipulation; there can be some good in a bad relationship. The killing his dad was a dragon-length jump to conclusions tho.

I really enjoyed the movie. I thought I'd assume the whole "it's the best" mentality just because it's a predominantly Asian cast and creative behind them, but I was blown away as a white washed Asian man. I see this as a stepping stone for something bigger in the MCU, somewhat similar to how Tony Stark in Iron man 1 was.

My only gripe is that yo wheres the honest review of that aladdin ripoff that you where in. (Wish dragon) just starting to see a pattern of bad reviews of movies your not in.

There should have been another guest that did like it. Because you guys did bring up things that actually was answered and explained in the movie. For instance, *spoilers* Shang chi was scared of his father. Hence he ran away after seeing how cold his dad was to his mothers killers. After that his dad trained him. Then you see shang’s asian side, wanting his dads approval but also conflicting with his morals. You see the personality change of his dad when he puts the rings back on. There was other stuff too. But everyone has their opinions. So it’s okay. It was an origin movie, so there was a lot to fit in. There were downsides to the movie as well in my opinion but definitely still a really good movie

I saw the film yesterday and i came out with mixed feelings. Visually the movie was stunning and the fight scenes were absolutely flawless. But I felt like they could have given the main character more depth. They focused on the fathers grief and turmoil of loosing his wife more than the Shang chi. Some of the slow motion shots were unnecessary but my main complaint was how forgetful the main hero is. I loved the side characters more than the main and that’s a problem. In terms of costume for the hero, it looked like he had a fancy top and was wearing skinny tracksuits. I wish they spent more time in the mums village their origin etc. If I compare it to black panther, I wasn’t blown away by this film, I could watch black panther on repeat and it actually made me feel inspired but even being Asian coming out of the cinema Shang chi’s lack of character development made me feel slightly disappointed.

I haven’t watched Shang Chi yet. Whether the film is good or not, I’m just incredibly happy that there’s an asian lead in the biggest movie franchise ever. Feelsgoodman😊

Fala Chen was critized as the worst actress when she started acting in Hong Kong dramas, but is so cool watching her grow from her beginnings to now

can’t wait to see 50 year old David still complaining about literally everything.

Honestly, I went to the opening week just for Tony Leung alone, I had ZERO clue who Simu is before this, so I didn't really care for Shang-chi. Growing up watching Little Tony in all the classic films and then to see him in an MCU film, was really cool. After watching the film, all I could think of was, "They should make a prequel of how Wenwu got the Ten Rings … yeah." PS: During the whole podcast, I just kept looking towards the Sunflower on the floor XD So Cute :D

I’ve noticed your very critical on movies that are pushing a racial agenda or some type of social justice like Wonder Woman , black panther and Shang chi etc although these movies have flaws I would say they were pretty good even if it’s a cash grab or some people want to blindly support It because of representation etc but sometimes I think because you don’t want to be bias u kinda end up being bias but the other way around and become hyper critical. Maybe it’s because I’m just and normal movie goer but I really thought it was a good movie And it’s not for the oscars it’s just to enjoy

I can understand not liking craZy rich asians , but shang chi i feel like you REALLY Have to nitpick to dislike this film man…

What a couple of haters…

Just started watching the pod, but I'mma just say this upfront: I fucking LOVED Shang Chi. The fighting, CGI, and characters were all dope. I do however, wish they went more into depth about the lore and magic that exists in the other dimension...

Shang-Chi might be a trilogy right? So I don’t expect a lot of character development in the first movie.

They claim they're trying to like the movie, but anyone else get the vibe they were doing the complete opposite?

I'm glad you gave a shout out to Andy & Brian Le from Martial Club. That crew is so talented when it comes to martial arts, and martial arts choreography. Those guys definitely deserve more recognition.

Scott Lang (Ant-Man) went back to being the same cat he was at the beginning of the film with the exception that now he had the Ant-Man suit & a bunch of skills taught to him by Hope Van Dyne & Hank Pym. In the case of Shang-Chi, he learned how to master his skill and inherited the Ten Rings Of Power from his father. Made perfect sense to me as Shang-Chi wasn't really a broken character but he did experience a gang of things that made him an Avenger by the end of the film.

Simu Liu going to unfriend David at this point lmao

Simu to David when he watches the podcast: “ I SOWWWWWWYYYYYYYYYY”

I was kinda okay with the main characters not having a huge development throughout the course of the film seeing how it’s a MCU title. At the very least they did establish the origins of the characters pretty well, and I was actually expecting more of the character development to happen in subsequent films. A little like iron man 1. I get that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it did feel like this one was a little too one sided and it did feel somewhat biased for some reason.

Shang-Chi hated his dad because his dad’s past is what got his mum killed, right? It felt like Shang also realized that he did not like the person his dad raised him to be. He was becoming the same type of person who’s behaviour led to Shang’s mother’s death. He resented his dad for that and for raising him to be just like him. I kind of liked the complexity of their relationship anyway, at least the way I understood it.

Salty that Simus a bigger actor than you are and the only thing you've been in is G**k lmao

People try so hard to love this movie they rationalize and 'fill in' the holes by themselves. When they talk about Shang-Chi, so often they don't just talk about the movie itself, they would go into great lengths about their own struggles in their Asian family, with their parents, their unfulfilled dreams and potentials blah blah blah...and how they miraculously feel the pain(s) Shang-chi must have felt but are totally missed out in the plot/writing/acting. Audience in Asian cinemas such as Taiwan and Hong Kong don't talk about how great the movie is, many buy the tickets solely for Tony Leung...

Honestly even though the movie is called Shang-Chi and the ten rings it kinda focuses more on his father than Shang-Chi himself. The movie begins with him and his conquest but then he gives it up for a normal family life after he falls in love. We see him change the most honestly and he had the most developed character arc.

I left the movie feeling kinda whelmed although there were still a lot of things to like about the film (mainly Tony Leung, Michelle Yeoh and Fala Chen), and after seeing your breakdown on what went wrong/what can be improved, it brought clarity to why I felt something was “missing”. And I think the no.1 missed opportunity of the film was not including young ShangChi revenge assassination. The trauma would have anchored a lot of reasoning for his hate to his dad, or even maybe include more self-loathe/destructive behaviour in the beginning, then we can get a character development arc (instead of like you said everyone stayed the same till the end)

So guys i agree with most of ur points but and i do think urs thought about the movie are valid i feel like you guys kinda missed the mark on the dad aspect in shangs life. One of the most important lines in the movie that shang says is that "you choose the rings over your us". Imo this line shows us why shang and his dad disagree in the movie. It shows that the dad actually doesn't change and wen things change for the worse he chose to go back to the rings rather than continue to live without it and just goes back to his old ways. This kinda shoots back to why his dad wasnt allowed to enter the village because of this cause they can see that he hasnt changed for the best and the village was right he did end up leading the village to ruin. At least this is how i see it. Sorry for the long winded comment but i feel like you guys are looking at it in a way that kinda takes away from the mothers role of the movie. Money and power doesnt make a happy family.

That shoutout to Andy Le though 👏🏼 love when he gets recognized for all the hard work he puts into everything he does

I love all of your other stuff but your podcast is starting to get a little whiny you complain about everything . starting to get a little tired of it but i’m going to support all your other stuff but Ed whines just as much.

Shang Chi had good pacing, not so complicated story, and the fight scenes were pretty bomb. 10/10 definitely recommend it

Chinese people loves karaoke too fyi

I feel like you guys are missing that Shang Chi and the sister were neglected, the sister even more so while also being abandoned by the Shang Chi. That’s why they have resentment toward their father. The father was nice until the mother died, then he became a hardass again. They may have been sympathetic to him until he started acting that way. training your son to be an assassin isn’t really a good relationship as David was saying in the beginning. Just my thoughts What I do agree on is that I feel like Shang-chi didn’t have a lot of dialogue to explain that he wasn’t afraid of his dad anymore AND why the hell didnt they show us him getting revenge on his moms killer! That would have been a great moment to witness and the filmed robbed us of it!!

The funniest line in this movie is Michelle Yeoh told Shang Chi “you looks like your mom” 🤣🤣🤣

movie was a 10/10 for the average viewer and the reviews show that. No need to pick out the nitty gritty imo

I loved the movie but you guys bring up some excellent points. A thought however. Maybe it’s poor writing (probably is) but I think the movie relied a lot on Asian American, or more specifically Chinese American, experiences and how we relate those to the character’s experiences to tell the story. An example is Shang chi’s fear of his father, which was something very clear to me. He wasn’t afraid of his fathers ability to kill, but he was afraid of everything else. Growing up he was afraid of losing his fathers approval, so much so that he couldn’t hear his mother’s voice anymore and started to become him. shang chi running away and the 10 years he lived in America was him being afraid of being under his father’s control. When they fought he is afraid of becoming his father. When he asks if his mother would still accept person his father has become, he’s projecting. And near the end he is afraid of losing his father. Scariest of all is that through all this, they still love each other but can’t understand or communicate that. I resonated with his fear because I saw my own experience and my own father in Tony Leung’s character. I grew up idolizing and seeking my dads approval. When our cultural differences began to show I started to resent and distance myself from his control and influence. As I got older I realized we were very similar people and it disgusted me. Later I accepted him for who he is and likewise accepted myself. Now I look at how old he is, and I realize he’s not as immortal as I thought he was and I’m afraid of losing him.

Eh idk about why would he come out of hiding instead of hiding more. The pendant being taken and the "card from her" in the beginning made sense that things weren't normal and he needs to go find her to warn her. Edit: I think everyone just interprets the creative choices in movies in their own way🤷 what's wrong with that lol

I 100% disagree with the shang chi review, but I respect it

I never thought I'd say that I personally believed that Awkwafina was the highlight of the movie.

Lol David got the bucket crab mentality.

Tony Leung was easily the best part of the movie. I personally loved the movie for all the fight scenes & CGI Narnia scenes alone lol I'm willing to forgive the poor character development for that, plus Tony's performance alone made up for all the shoddy plot holes for me.

Tony Leung is something else. His role in Hard Boiled across Chow-Yun Fat was *chef's kiss*. Good to hear that he held his own in this film. Looking forward to seeing it.

Their Shang Chi hate is fuckin' heavy-handed. Haters gonna hate.

Nah, you weird for this one

21:48 all cap from both David and Ed 🤡

I hated how they wasted Andy’s character, I didn’t care that he was a faceless/voiceless soldier i was just happy for a Vietnamese actor in the MCU

I did wish that they showed the assassination instead of saying it happened. With all the flashbacks happening, I thought it was going to lead there. That's a fair point to establish how Shang-Chi truly felt and could've cleared up motivations better. But I don't think training someone to be an assassin is necessarily "loving." I still liked the movie a lot with the fighting in the first half of the movie and how it really told it's own story with bits and pieces of superhero stuff. Also, as much as I like you and Ed explaining your opinions, maybe bring in someone else who may have a different opinion. Maybe you can change their mind or they can change your mind.

It's Ok to have an opinion, but damn...this is the most nit-picking review ever. Go ahead and magnify the small negative details to overshadow the positive I guess. Shady.

Still watching btw, but Yall said why did he want to go back with his father instead of hiding. Correct me if I'm wrong but did Shang Chi even want to go back with his father. After the bus attack, he didn't go trying to go back where his father was but to talk to his sister about a "supposed" letter that she sent him. Then from there, that's where the dad finds them and then they go back. Not by their own will. I could be wrong especially since there were people constantly flashing their lights in the theatre.

Shoutouts to Andy Le! Martial Club!

Shang chai is one my top favourite marvel movies now. Loved it. Disagree I didn’t think was sitcom I though tone down the comedy. That kid actor was amazing also played young version of Shaun. I loved it and found karaoke part hilarious. Loved the Kung fu and Thai chi. Fighting. Do wish more depth with friendship main character. And more more of magic and spiritual but loved it. Overall one my top fav marvel movies.

I absolutely loved the movie, from the visuals, comedic relief, the story, the combat. I’m a huge Marvel Fan and phase 4 is absolutely insane so far. THE GRANDMA FROM KUNG FU HUSTLE. CMON. The Ten Rings are about to be so important!

I wonder if simu himself has seen your review

I think where I disagree here is the idea Shang Chi also wanted revenge was his mom and Wenwu didn't have any influence on his son. Shang Chi was a little ass kid and didn't know how to feel, Wenwu took him and showed him "a blood debt has to be paid in blood". That's what started Shang's training and his spiral into a teenage assassin. Shang's line during the fight where he says something like you should've been there for us as a father instead of seeking revenge I think is the real conflict between the two. It definitely could have been built up better, but yall are acting like it wasn't there at all.

Typical David 😂 always got some sh*t to say that can easily be disputed. Not even surprised anymore. If you just want to hate on something then just say that and move on.

David sorry man I usually agree with you but this one you just hating for no reason 👋

Even if the film wasn’t the best in everyone’s eyes. I thought it was really important for my 2 kids to see an Asian superhero on the big screen. They loved it and that’s all that mattered to me.

shout out to Yuen Wah as well! the village guy in Kungfu Hustle! Tony Leung in this film was like Donnie Yen in Mulan which were the best scenes!

The ratings and reviews says otherwise, y’all represent the minority who didn’t like it and that’s okay.