The captain of the Belgrano said Maggie Thatchers decision was legal. But you are so wracked with hatred for the woman his opinion means nothing to you expert in the law of war. How dare he think otherwise. Moron doesn't adequately describe your low level of cognition.
Héctor Bonzo, captain of the ARA Belgrano, stated in an interview twenty-five years after the sinking: “It was absolutely not a war crime. It was an act of war, lamentably legal".
@@thedolphin5428 @thedolphin5428 It's International law and what hinders with it is, therefore, considered impermissible. “Similarly, during the Falklands/Malvinas War, both Argentina and the U.K. declared legally questionable exclusion zones. Argentina threatened to attack any British vessel in its declared war zone, which extended to the entire South Atlantic. The U.K. “total exclusion zone” (TEZ) was equally problematic. The U.K. declared any military or civilian ship or aircraft, regardless of flag found within the TEZ without the permission of the U.K. Ministry of Defence would “be regarded as operating in support of the illegal occupation” of the Falklands and would “be regarded as hostile” and liable to attack by British Forces. Despite its apparent overreach, however, the TEZ was located away from the main shipping lanes in the South Atlantic and was of relatively short duration. Arguably, the TEZ was designed to support British military operations in the Falklands by facilitating the identification of legitimate military targets rather than target all contacts in the zone. In this regard, the British declaration indicated that ships or aircraft within the zone were warned of possible attacks and there is no evidence that foreign-flag vessels within the TEZ were actually attacked by British forces.” (Maritime Exclusion Zones in Armed Conflicts, by Raul (Pete) Pedrozo, International Law Studies, 2022).
That's how she dealt with them. I was a schoolboy in USSR approx at that time, I still remember how she literally tore apart two soviet journalists interviewing her. I laughed out loud though I was about 13. The next day soviet TV banned the interview.
When you enlist in the armed forces you accept that you may be killed on the line of duty. Sinking an enemy ship is not a war crime, especially if it is a war ship and not a merchant ship. Argentina provoked war and they got what was coming for them. Nobody claims the sinking of HMS Sheffield was a war crime, so how is that the case with the Belgrano?
We should give the penguin Islands back to the Argentines. In 2014 we have no business in the South Atlantic . Our days of colonizing the world are over. We should hand back Gibraltar also ;-)
***** It seems to me the only decent and honorable way of solving most of these issues is to recognize them as a matter of self-determination. If the people of the Falklands/Malvinas want to be part of Argentina, then they should be. If they want to remain part of Britain (as they apparently do), then that too should be respected. DItto Gibraltar. For example, Canada has a similarly strong geographic (though weaker historical) claim on the islands of St Pierre and Miquelon. They're 20km (!!) from Canadian soil, and over 3800 km from France. The people of those islands, AFAIK, still wish to remain French. Fair enough.
Belgrano sinking was prior to Sheffield. In fact all events after the sinking of the Belgrano were in retaliation. Countless lives were lost due to an act of cowardice by the British government.
David Frost did say it was a turning point, actually he’s quite right, the Argentinian Carrier was taken away from the theatre, thus the Argentinian fighter bombers then had range issues. Margaret Thatcher was absolutely correct to order the sinking of the Belgrano.
The enemy ship's captain even said he was preparing weapons to fire against the British, so yes she did the right thing. I would love Maggie to be here now to rip Boris Johnson apart.
HMS Hermes sunk. Several hundred British sailors killed. David Frost "Ah well, these things happen." Well done, Maggie. The first British leader since Winnie that actually had a pair.
Unless Belgrano was flying a white flag it was a legitimate target AFTER Argentina started the war. The direction it was steaming is irrelevant. Had the Argentines discovered a UK Vulcan bomber on it's return trip after bombing Port Stanley's runway would it have been illegitimate to shoot it down? It was leaving the area. No. Belgrano wasn't a hospital ship. It wasn't a civilian ship. It hadn't surrendered. The war was on and it lost.
They started it!!!!!! Also people forget it was a military junta under Galtierri and basically a dictatorship. They ousted Peron. They were trying to be bullies and they picked on the wrong stubborn Englishwoman. Had they got Blair or god forbid Starmer all those Brits on the falklands would have been on their own. There’s nobody around like her today.
The Belgrano had to go. It didn't matter which direction it was sailing in. It formed part of a pincer movement against the British fleet. If we'd lost either carrier, it would have meant the end of the war.
I am so divided by this woman. I was born in Scotland and sadly missed the 80s but was brought up to think of Thatcher as a monster. In fact, you simply didn’t mention her name (and still don’t) yet she is a fascinating woman. She divided the country as much as (ironically) Eva Peron did in Argentina. She is a fascinating historical figure at any rate.
I am with you, I was born only knowing MT as the PM and being told she was nasty and responsible for all evil. When she died, I did not batter an eye lash. I can say I have watched most of the interviews and documentaries on you tube and my opinion has totally changed. The fact is she is very intelligent, not scared to face these guys 1 on 1, and tells it how it is. So many politicans could learn from watching her. You might not like them, but she has her principles. Too many MP's today, go with popular opinion. I encourage anyone to spend time watching her debate these people. She does not shy away
I'm northern english. I vote with my heart (i.e not Tory). Yet she did a few things right. That's the best I have to offer. She defended british interests in regards to foreign conflict with passion. 99% of British people I know don't have any issues with Argentinian friends. So she at least didn't persecute people. History is crazy. The stopped clock metaphor etc.
@@jde9711 I’ve been saying the same recently and have received several verbal beat downs. I’ve never once said we need Margaret Thatcher back, but we need someone forward thinking with a backbone. Glad I’m not alone. Thanks!
You bloodythirsty fucking poms are always in the right. Bachelors' walk. Amritsar, subsequently Gujranwala Chumik Shenko. North King St. Peshawar Bazaar. Athens. Palestine. Just a few from the first half of the 20th century. I don't think there's room in these comments to list even 1/2 of the British military's brutality.
Hello, Friend, despite being from the Losing Side, I agree with your answer, since El Ara Gral Belgrano represented a great danger and even though he was outside the conflict zone, the good thing is that they have already begun to declassify some documents by For example, the Mikado operation or the Plum Duff operation that were already directed to attack on the continent, These are things that I hope will not happen again, a hug from Argentina.Sorry for not knowing English (it's the google translator)
Have any of you read comments made by argentinian forces about this? It was definitely a part of their strategy and had just been ordered to act as a pincer ship with the others in the area and attack british forces. Thatcher made a great choice and the right one end of.
In another interview she stated perhaps 30 years later all of the facts will come out, and here we are over 30 years and the accuracy and brilliant action taken is made undeniable by revealed facts! She's iconic ✨️
@@stephensharp3033 Glib accusations do not work with adult discussion. What, in your opinion, were the three most "evil" things that Mrs. Roberts committed? This should be good! She is, according to you, worse than Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, to pick but a few...
In a different interview she stated perhaps when I leave politics I will go into business and call it "rent a spine" 😆 My shero indeed...legendary and iconic ❤️
The Total Exclusion Zone was a protective measure for civilian merchant shipping. It did not apply to the Argentinian Navy. Argentinian Naval warships would still be a legitimate target sitting in home-port in that situation. Sinking the Belgrano was a legitimate act of war, and her skipper is on the record as agreeing.
Do you think Mr frost that i spend my days prowling around the pigeonholes of the ministry of defense then if you do then you must be bonkers lmfao hahahahah
She did the right thing in the circumstances - that's what strong leadership is all about. Let's face it, those who "hate" her do so really because she was a woman and they have no basic argument or alternative to her policies - which were right and exactly what the UK needed.
Best PM we've had, smashed the corrupt unions who were in bed with their corrupt labour paymasters, saved industry from terminal industrial decline and put Britain back on the international stage as a world power by establishing a more market driven economy. Love her or hate her, she was always blunt, had balls of steel and believed in Great Britain, something todays politicians should take note of.
If the Belgrano was sailing away from the Falklands and back to Argentina, why didn't the Argentine government announce that the battle ship was being withdrawn in an effort to foster peace negociations??
Because they don't need to? They were literally going back to Argentina sailing OUT of war territory, England saw an opportunity to act like bloody coward pirates and attack from the back a boat that would've given England lots of trouble. Dumb
But why was the Belgrano going back to Argentina when the war was not over.?There were reports that the Belgrano was going to pick up more Exocet missles . Also the Russians had started to support the Argentines sending submarines to follow British ships and sending intelligence information to the Argentines. Today we have the Chinese as the threat. I don't think Argentina will ever be able to take over the Falkland Islands. Did you know that the Falkland Islands are one of the wealthiest counties in the world. Check out the CIA Factbook. Argenitna goes from one crisis to another. As does Venezuela, Peru, and other Latin American countries. The Falkland Islands are a stable and wealthy country.
@@maginot2u lol, did not expect you answering me after 6 years. The thing is it doesn’t matter if it was going to get more missiles or if they were being helped with russian intel. England was being helped with US and chilean intel too, that’s not the point. The point is like Frost very well said, the argentines had not killed any british soldier before that and the Belgrano was sailing out of war territory so there was no reason to sink it. It was a war crime
@@giuliovaloppi4756 6 Years ago? I just got your message today, Oct 15, 2021. Was the sinking of the Belgrano a war crime? It depends on who you ask. Do a Google search on this topic and you will see that many say the sinking WAS a war crime but as many say It WAS NOT. Pick your side. The fact was that the Argentines invaded and took control of the Falkland Islands on April 2, 1982. The Belgrano was sunk a month later on May 2, 1982. The war was a month old at that time.
Margaret Thatcher accomplished her duty. Defend the sovereignty of her homeland's territory and recover the Falkland Islands. And she achieved her mission in the brightest way ! The Iron Lady at her best.
To have an opinion on this subject you have to look at the full facts. Many facts were kept secret at the time. In particular, the British monitored Argentinian signals and knew the plan to use the Belgrano against the Royal Navy. The Belgrano's captain has never described the sinking as a war crime. The histrionics come from other sources.
@@giuliovaloppi4756 I trust you have evidence for that? It was an entirely justified act, the Belgranos own commander has stated this, the only "cowardice" is from the Argentinian surface fleet as it bravely sailed towards its own waters and stayed there for the rest of the war - good thing too probably, it reduced the number of lives needlessley wasted so a tin-pot dictatorship could remain in power.
@@jacktanner4948 I agreed with you in that last sentence. In the long run it was probably for the best that Argentina lost that war because otherwise that dictatorship would’ve kept going on forever. But it is known that England was able to win the war thanks to US and chilean intel. Like it or not, the sinking of the Belgrano was a war crime
I love it how people slate Thatcher, it really shows how uneducated they are. I as a true English man believe in everything she did, she really shaped Britain in her time and thanks to a certain party and it's followers, we lost everything. A true hard British woman, a shame we lost her RIP Maggie
So, simply because someone disagrees with your point of view you suggest they are uneducated? Wonderful argument. I'd also like to point out that her party made 3 million people unemployed in the 1980s. During her era more people were unemployed than ever before. The only time you could find more unemployed people was during the Great Depression. Another point, if she was so brilliant then how come she would have lost the 1983 general election if she hadn't gone to war with Argentina? I'm sorry she died but she caused a great deal of trouble, heartache and misery to "the hard working people of Britain" (to use a cliché) so a bunch of middle class yuppies like yourself could sit back in your armchairs during your declining years and say "Wasn't she a wonderful leader! Thanks for all the money Maggie!"
Strange to criticise the British attack on the basis no Falkland Islanders had died. That's like saying the police shouldn't shoot an armed robber of a bank because no hostages had been killed at that time.
You start a war and lose a ship, you don't get to complain about it. Who the hell would even question the sinking of an enemy vessel in a war? Who gives a shit where it was heading, it's a military vessel. The Fauklands are so close to Argentina, you wonder why they never simply had people move to it and , over time, change cultures.
Ohio here the Usa and the only woman I would vote for to lead the Usa would be the strong but caring Margaret Thatcher and Margaret Thatcher WE LOVE YOU!!
I love how people who do not study anything about strategics, militaristic nor politics believe they can criticize everything like if they had been right there.
Quien te enseño eso? La area de exclusión no fue para los argentinos. El barco iba a atacar en un momento mas adecuado según los jefes de de la armada argentina. Lee los comentarios de Enrique Molina o Pedro Luis Galazi. Tenés razón sobre ella, pero no de está incidente.
Had Belgrano launched and the 25 de Mayo group, the outcome could've been disastrous for Britain. Right decision. Only Britain, since the 80s, can find umbrage of sinking an enemy ship in a conflict.
The commanding officer of the Argentine warship the General Belgrano believe the attack on his ship was justified. He did not blame the Conqueror or prime minister Thatcher for their actions their nations were at War ships at sea during wartime our subject to attack himself it goes without saying. As a former sailor myself in the Navy you know full darn well that your ship is a warship and it has a great big Target on it just like your opponent's chips have got targets painted on them. It's an accepted risk and when wartime is prevalent that risk maybe ramped up to a certainty. An uncle of mine was on the Franklin when she was hit by a kamikaze. He didn't think of it as a war crime it was simply an act of War it was a risk and he was one of the 700 survivors who sailed the Franklin by way of the Suez Canal all the way back to New York City where she would have been do for repairs had not the war ended during your Transit. The whole idea of trying Margaret Thatcher in negative light is media bias with an unhealthful dose of self righteousness on the part of the interviewer. I like David Frost I've enjoyed his programming but I thought that this interview in the whole questioning of her actions during the Argentine war with England was scared to turn up controversy in the media. The nation was at War and when Nations go to war people get killed. You don't join the Navy to see the world you do join the Navy to protect your nation from foreign aggression. And as far as English citizens on the Falkland Islands were concerned they were violently attacked and occupied. The Argentine Army also engaged in combat with the small Marine Garrison on the Falklands in the early days of the war. The argentinians weren't exactly defenseless they sank several Royal Navy ships racking up a good portion of deaths among the crews of these ships. Such is the nature of War. It's in human nature to have conflict with others whether violent or simple disagreements. It's unfortunate it's just the way we are and all we can do is to go through a day simply saying today I shall not kill or I shall not argue or I shall not get into a fight. You say that every day of your life and you will need peaceful existence providing somebody does not come along and try to take away those parts of your life that you treasure and hold dear.
Tulaenelorto, I don't eat fish and chips, that's a stereotype my friend. Neither did South America invite your Spanish ancestors. I am not homophobic but will defend the interest of the people of the Falkland Islands, the islands which were inhabited and discovered before the nation as known as Argentina was discovered by the Spanish. So please go back in your shell before you accuse another nation of colonising another territory.
In world war 2 the Bismarck set out for the Atlantic not to fight the British fleet but to go after the convoys yet the British navy sank her, was it wrong to sink that ship ? No of course not as it would have gone on to sink ships and take many lives. The Belgrano was a threat as long as she was a float, and never forget Argentina made the first aggressive moves by invading the Falklands. If you become the aggressor then you must live with the consequences of your actions and finally if they did not intend to use her in combat then what was she doing there in the first place ?
I totally agree with you as that is the exact point I've used in the past and often criticised for comparing the sinking of the bismark with the belgrano as irrelevant. But the underlying fact is that bismark was also sailing away at the time back to port and yet the British forces knew she had to be sent to the bottom of the Atlantic if the royal navy stood a chance of protecting the convoys and it had the overwhelming support of the British public and the free world. The belgrano sinking although on a smaller scale is no less relevant to the fact that even if she was sailing back to port she was still in firing distance from the task force waiting for landings with her 16 inch guns and her being an undoubtedly an obstacle she had to be sunk. Mr Frost should of put in a question not of criticism but of bravery as to how Mrs Thatcher handled that situation as it did not only save British lives but also it led the other two argentine battleships to be ordered back to port. Had Churchill been in her place he'd probably ordered all of them to had been sunk. War is what it is.
War is war gandalf grey, ships can alter course and no doubt it would of done to fire at the landings. It can only be in Britain that a PM is criticised for sinking an ENEMY ship that was a threat to British lives whether in or outside an exclusion zone (and that doesn't have to stay official). Honestly the stupidity of some...
Who justifies the British invasion to an Island 8 thouthand miles away I have a question: If certain people invaded the yard of your house without you noticing, over time these people have children raised with the culture and sense of belonging of their invading parents, and someone asked these children who owns the yard of that house, what do you think they would answer?Then, is the fact that these children feel that the yard of your house belongs to them enough for them to take it away from you?
Margaret Thatcher. Whenever I think that England is the greatest nation in history, I remember that the English didn't like her. And then I change my mind.
Holy shit was she the most contreversial politician of all time or what!? Pretty sure there's exactly 50/50 pro/anti Thatcher people in the comments here xD
I don't have any sympathy. The Argentinian government put their sailors in danger and risk. Funny how us attacking someone is controversial but someone invading our land is swept under the rug. All these people moan about the facts we know now but what about then? We don't have the time to ask everyone's intentions during a war and after we'd been attacked. What was his point about 'they took no British lives' oh shall we just invade any country we like and as long as we take no lives we hold the moral high ground? Utter bollocks.
Interesting interview from TV-am, as TV-am was always considered by Margaret Thatcher and her government to be very friendly to her government. Bruce Gyngell their MD was a big supporter of Thatcher. Maybe she thought she would get a soft ball interview here, she didn't.
What is your reaction to shooting someone in the back? If it is outrage, as it certainly is for a great many people, and you say this is business as usual for war, then where is your outrage against war?
Peter Pan took Mrs Thatcher to the moon and gave her 17 mice that he bred there!! When she returned to the Earth, she was a changed woman and Dennis gave her a golliwog doll for comfort!!
Thatcher lost this argument badly. It was her negligence and stupidity which lost the Falklands in the first place. Then soldiers had to die to get them back. She blunders and flounders over the Belgrano. Her reply to Frost's point that the Belgrano was sailing away that it might have turned around is ridiculous. Thatcher was a monster.
One Democratic Republic and one Nuclear Empire in a dispute. The Empire expells former dissidents and deny entry of Argentines. Then it holds a Putin-style referendum. Any suggestion for a solution?
Thatcher was a monster, a war criminal, a heartless and ruthless politician. Frost makes his point very well and I only wish that we had a press that could really press American politicians to answer the tough questions. Thatcher sunk the Belgrano when it was retreating from the Falklands in order to raise her numbers in the polls and win re-election. Unfortunately for Britain, it worked.
No, he doesn't 'make his point very well' as you can see him fumbling reaching for his socks as he's been put in place with his silly, weak line of 'but what about if' questioning forgetting there was a war going on and the risk of British lives. Clueless - as was your posting.
