DC Comics Presents #26 (Cyborg, Starfire, and Raven) - Atop the Fourth Wall 

starwarsnerd100 So THAT’S what a writer for a new 52 groot series would be like...

False equivalence, ahoy! I love the smell of logical fallacies in the morning. A wooden chair is made from the dead remains of a living organism. You don't interact with it (unless you're Clint Eastwood hurr-hurr...). You can't order it to do things. It doesn't react. It doesn't act independently from your direct manipulation/control. It doesn't expand your perception, communication, or enhance other natural abilities of your body. Geoff Johns was referring to a school of thinking that posits that modern cell phones are one of the last developments in technology before an actual cyborg state is reached. A threshold. A cell phone implanted into the body that can be controlled like one can control a muscle would be possible next step. He didn't express it all that well, but there's a lot more to it.

my chair is leather, soooo i am not groot

Apparently Geroge's mindset carried over to later years, explaining why things have gotten so bad as they are now. If only there was an online publisher whose mascot was a bee that Marv could've posted his work and not have to deal with idiots around him...

GaiaX5 What? George was and is great. He and Marv have been friends since forever and loved working with each other.

If you read the George Perez book published by TwoMorrows George had ZERO problems with drawing beautiful women, but he always tried to give each of them a fully developed personality and to make them unique in their own way. That's why I'm such a fan of his Wonder Woman tenure and for me, it remains THE BEST Post William Marston depiction, and in many ways, even BETTER!

It's true George Perez liked drawing attractive ladies, but nobody can deny his talent as an artist. Furthermore, he was a full co-creator of the Titans along with Marv Wolfman, so his input was part of the process as well.

@Blue Spaceman\I never said he wasn't. In my comment about Wolfman, I focused on his writing but he himself acknowledged George contributed to the plotting; it's just at the time, George wasn't yet ready, writing wise. I like your avatar! Is that an image of LEADER DESSLOK from Starblazers that I've never seen before? Desslok is a screen name I've used before but couldn't for RU-vid, for some reason I can't recall! If that's him, he's a great character! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7bCr6sMLDvM.html

Cue the song 'Cat Scratch Fever'...

Speaking as someone that's owned a cat before...yeah. At least wear some shorts.

jbiehlable Yep. Hugely underrated. Still surprised it didn’t get a DVD release

Yeah, might get a bit painful otherwise...especially if their claws are not trimmed...

@jbiehlable I remember that show!

Rejoice shiro emiya!! For I have given you black keys for Christmas..... and waffles

Damnit, not when i´m drinking! *Wipes screen*

Trevor Anthony Low hanging fruit.

I now imagine raven as woz

@@doggosho3044 "Rejoice! Those are the waffles that will rule the past and the future..."

Indeed. Especially when you’re writing a character who’s African American

They're like Dr. Doom and Horns. They do as they please.

That explains how that cat winked at the camera in the last video.

They also love anything that is obviously different. If you put a single piece of paper on the floor, they will lie on it. If you draw a square on the floor, they will try to fit inside it. I don't know what it is about "separate area" but it draws them like a magnet. They also cannot stand to see two or more things stacked on one another, they must knock them to the floor. It is cat law.

Maybe that explains why when you're the most comfiest, relaxed and vulnerable, they sit in your lap and you suddenly get the urge to go to the bathroom.

That's such a great line because it simultaneously has a deep meaning to it, while also being funny (the irony coming from how you expected him to say the one thing but he ended up saying the other thing)

That line is very well done because it effectively makes the point without being preachy.

Honestly I'm really getting sick of fantasy race racsim in stories it has a bad habit of further othering people these days and so much of media really fucks it up anymore. From RWBY turning the Black Panthers into the KKK to Star Vs the Forces of Evil portraying a oppresed group as litral monsters an then going "racsim is not bad, magic is." Too much foucus on mettaphore.

@@viraltang You might have had a point if you had not messed up your examples. 1. The White Fang were a *terrorist group* that was meant to show that violence is bad, so you were just looking for the wrong moral there. 2. As much as I disliked the ending of Star vs., magic was *used to oppress* monsters, which was why is got destroyed. Also, having the monsters be "literal monsters" did not justify discrimination.

@@Bezaliel13 1The White Fang are right the Fanus are abused, oppresed, exploted, and segragated to the point where at a school that trained "protectors of peace" bulling them was seen as a-ok and no one stepping in to stop it. 2 Magic was not the problem racisim and those in power including Stars mom using it a means of oppression was. Also, no it did not justify discrimination but it was a little gross of the show of portaing an oppressed people as literal monsters. If Nefce wanted her show to have racal issues. Why not do it with Marco's family a Latino family living in fucking America? Stop fucking othering minorities more then they already are.

Blake Tyson he has done that before. In the Justice league Doom animated movie his civilian identity is African American. And if I’m not wrong his civilian identity these days is African American just in general

It be like if Cyclops from X-men became a founding member of the Avengers after replacing Thor in a Marvel comics reboot.

@@grimmjowwsbane775 In fact General Swanwick from Man of Steel was supposed to he revealed as Martian Manhunter in Snyder's original Justice League script.

True but my point still stands that it would look really awkward if a prominent member of one team suddenly became a founding member of another well-known team.

I could be wrong, but wasn't The Doom Patrol Beast Boy's team?

Mitchell Cowan Neat indeed.

I believe the name for that is a "Freudian Trio": Id, Ego, and Superego

He also created Black Cat too.

Terry Long the Original Author insert

@@rwg6357 honestly, terry wasn't that bad. the perez/wolfman run had way bigger issues than him, and funnily enough thorough the first part of that story (New Teen Titans vol 1) his and donna's relationship was the only one given any depth whatsoever

@@rwg6357 you've clearly never heard of The Divine comedy

Because otherwise it would look like one of those bands with equal pairings of men and women?

D'ya think he was deliberately quoting Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged?

Amen & Amen. Screw the multiverse, Wally West is a Titan as well as a Leaguer. Double Duty

I don’t know MrGBH, probably.

He’s just there for the food

I think this applies to most RU-vidrs. Also do you remember what video that was from?

@jbiehlable Ok boomer.

Just like Batman's dislike of rock and roll

Boomer will live!

I disagree, I think that joke has run it's course and needs to go "over there" and die.

Oh, no doubt - I just found those quotes hilarious.

@@AT4W I wrote that comment before finishing the video, I meant to cast no aspersions towards your opinion of him. I actually wanted to mention something though. Ages ago I asked if you were planning on reviewing any more Uwe Boll movies and if Red Reaper could be it. Well, the reason was because George Perez was in it. When I met him I mentioned the film and he was so excited that someone actually knew of it that I just honestly didn't have the heart to tell him that I hated it. He was such a nice, friendly guy. If you ever get the chance to meet him, you should (Please don't mention this story though)

He’s been having health issues recently, so hope that he gets better regardless of his character.

And I'm trying to remember if Silas dies in that, I remember the scene where he seemingly is killed, but the season ended so oddly I forgot entirely

ToHoldNothing Silas lived. He was injured badly, but he survived and recovered.

@@Mask0fFate That's right, he was in the hospital bed and stuff afterwards

Wasn’t popular enough and there would be too much cgi

@@thewitchdoctors749 true, but I was referring to the new 52 comics.

ΔΗΜΗΤΡΗΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΙΟΣ oh then I have no idea

@@emberfist8347 Modern problems require modern solutions.

Blake Tyson you do know his powers are shapeshifting right

Martian manhunter is great but I actually feel like the third season of young justice really shows how reworking cyborg to be related to the new gods can work really well and offers a lot of storytelling potential. Manhunter is great and can work as a black person to play on racial stories (also works if those stories are abstracted to where aliens stand in for racial minorities) but it is worth noting that A. Manhunter didn't grow up around human racial stereotypes or prejudices. He works best for an immigrant experience rather than a native one. B. Manhunter is a shapeshifter. Any racism he experiences is, on some level, voluntary. I don't think I need to explain how that can be some bad messaging. Personally, I think the member who fits in the least among the main justice league cast is aquaman. Oh he's definitely badass and interesting and cool, it's just that he's aquatic royalty. I know wonder woman is also sometimes an amazonian leader but that's much less of a defining trait with her. Most of the rest of the justice league are either aliens are use technology (sometimes alien technology). Cyborg, with the new gods background, just works better but I wouldn't mind it if both cyborg and manhunter were on the justice league. No disrespect to aquaman, I just feel that his stories don't work as well with typical justice league stories and that he has less overall to do if the story isn't carefully made to give him something with water. Basically, I just finished watching young justice season 3, thought it was awesome, and wanted to share some thoughts.

There's a layer of doubt about how much a shapeshifter can represent a gender, species or race. I think it can be done, but needs to be direct in how it's presented. Runaways did this idea really well with a skrull that was going through an identity crisis because of their constantly shifting gender.

+ClockworkKing In Young Justice, Martian Manhunter sounds vaguely African so I think he could work like that.

The Show in question was 'Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians' Ernie Hudson from Ghostbusters voiced Cyborg there.

There was a Teen Titans cartoon planned at that time but it never happened. Robin wouldn't have been in it because he was already on Superfriends.

I remember watching that as a kid. The last episode had Clark "die" years before the Death of Superman saga in 1992

That was during the later seasons of the Superfriends (SuperFriends, it was written both ways). When they started the series with Darkseid as their opponent they got Cyborg and Firestorm.

Yup. That show was created to promote action figures (some of which were designed by Jack Kirby), and Cyborg was included because 1) they wanted to include a black character and 2) he was, presumably, more appealing as a toy than Black Lightning and John Stewart, who I think were DC's only other black superheroes at the time.

It even technically is a character, thanks to the Events of "Access the Guardian" and "Amalgam". Both the entire Marvel and the DC-cosmos got represented by gigantic red and blue Knight-characters respectivly fighting each other.

@@EnerKaizer My point exactly.

And he runs on tokens.

It is a heavy mantle to bear.

Yep. At least his entire character doesn't revolve around being black, though.

That's certainly what he became.

More of a "Diversity Hire"

"Evil Doers beware..... We have WAFFLES...."

jbiehlable Yeah I thought you would say that.

@@SegaNintendoGuy64 Raven will always be my Favourite role from Tara Strong, especially for her Outstanding performance in Season 4 of TT.

I will always love the 2003 teen Titans series in general.

Same. Design, moments, performance by Tara Strong herself. She's one of my favorite characters in terms of animated superheroes and goth girls.

Bthsr71 I think what Johns meant was that Cyborg was meant to be the ultimate representation of man’s growing interconnectedness with technology.

@@L1701still kinda stupid in its pretentiousness.

Fun fact: he spent a million dollars of his stepfather Steve Dayton's money on publicists to come up with the new name, and everyone still kept calling him Beast Boy.

And makes for a hell of a Drinking Game, take a shot after each line about "Dreams becoming Nightmares".

WorldWar2freak94 “And NOW my DREAM has become A NIGHTMARE.”

1rhpsfan trying to out do the ‘Stephen king’ drinking game, I see?

Well THAT does not SURPRISE ME. But EMPHASISING random WORDS is KINDA FUN.

He wasn't in the movie because of that. He was in the movie because he was a member of the Justice League comics at that time, and movies and comics like to keep up with each other as a marketing strategy.

@@Wol1427 and yet more people knew him from teen titans. Hell, could've bad black ligntning in the justice league. Wouldn't have cost as much either.

Apparently in the original script, the main military guy from Men of Steel was going to be Martian Manhunter in disguise.

Jon Stewart and Cyborg would appeal to same age group too because the shows were on around the same time.

@@realrealwarpet He got a great arc in the the current season of Young Jutice. and his own tv show to boot!

You're talking about the "Ric Grayson" fiasco, right?

@@daelen.cclark Yep

@@comicking428 At least that got better over time.

Why not split the difference. Let Hal be Green Lantern in his own books and have John be the one on the Justice league?

@@ceruleanwalker1069 Modern problems require modern solutions.

And most modern solutions are really horrible and stupid.

The thing is, comic books themselves are a niche audience - what's "iconic" is what the greater audience of the world knows, and by the time the Green Lantern movie came out, as far as the rest of the world knew, John Stewart was Green Lantern thanks to the animated series.

@@AT4W I'd actually make a counterpoint that Hal is still the "iconic" Green Lantern outside of comics (at least right now) since JL/JLU isn't the only incarnation of Green Lantern people know about. He's made appearances in shows like Super Friends, Batman: The Brave and the Bold (although there he's admittedly overshadowed by Guy) and most importantly he front lines Green Lantern: The Animated Series. I think it's enough for people to think that he's the "iconic" GL. (by the way looking at how all the other GLs got a lot of attention outside of comics barring Simon who's relatively new, it really becomes apparent how much they did Kyle dirty. STA was the most he got.)

I don't agree with that that. He made good friends with Shazam. Mostly because they were both much younger that the other league members and rookie heroes.

Johns said it awkwardly, but I think he meant that Cyborg was symbolic of humanity’s growing more interconnected to technology.

His work on green lantern was still good though.

While technically true, it is also true the the company officially adopted the name DC Comics Inc. In 1977. So DC Comics is also technically correct, even though it actually comes out being Detective Comics Comics.

Maybe its an Inception thing. They're writing comics about writing Detective Comics.

𝙏𝙃𝙀 𝙉𝙄𝙂𝙃𝙏𝙈𝘼𝙍𝙀 𝘽𝙀𝘾𝙊𝙈𝙀𝙎 𝙍𝙀𝘼𝙇𝙄𝙏𝙔

He also insists that Barry Allen is a good character

Which is hilarious because Johns is firmly a Gen Xer.

Why was he brought back again?

Good point. XD

I just imagine Beastboy pranking people with meatballs now and Cyborg giggling like Stanley.

@Trevor Anthony i can understand that but for me personally as a huge fan of the justice league and teen titans if they wanted to have cyborg be on the justice league that's fine but not as a founding member have him be a teen titan first like he's supposed to be then you can upgrade him to the big leagues naturally not rushed him to be a founding member like the new 52 did but that's just my opinion.

@Trevor Anthony i can understand that

The ending of "Nightmare City."

Ah, the same question I wanted to ask. Thanks.

If he does that... well they have two cats.