I am looking at getting the Hardrace Roll Center correction part you are running as my EP3 has high body roll in the corner, it is not lowered. My EP3 has front DC5 lower control arms with CU brakes & rotors running EP490 MX72 Endless brakepads. The brakes are twin pot & the rotors are 320mm on 17" Evo 17x8 +35. Guards have been rolled all round. Stock rear type R. The CU brakes come off an Accord 2008-2015 with 320mm rotors. This is a good budget upgrade for a DC5 or EP3.
Love the detailed breakdown and going over common approaches to the car. Also love to see your clear passion for the problem solving aspect of this unique chassis. If you don't mind me asking for suspension tips for my base daily driver RSX that's lowered less than an inch? I'm thinking I may not need the roll center adjuster balljoint since I'm not lowered much (tein h-tech + koni yellow). I'm considering getting the SHG steering rack slider, new bushings, 24mm rear sway, and some good 235/17/45 tires on 17 inch enkeis. Does it sound like I'm headed in the right direction? I'm just trying to make a cool street car but I still want to build an authentic and tasteful setup. Thanks for the great videos
Roll Center Ball Joints will improve your setup no matter what. But yes that sounds like a good street car. The videos I have on my channel are a good guide on what to do and what not to do to a DC5.
Now young fella are you looking at Bump Steer or are you really looking at Roll Steer? Bump Steer is for Bumps. What you need to look at with your Gauges(s) is to Roll the car and measure your Roll Steer and you will work out just what it is that makes RSX/DC5 go round corners quicker than most any car. Now the Roll amount has to be mostly in the front. My DC5 runs the Tegiwa Rack Riser and the Steering (Hardrace Arms) angled down at about 5 degree's. But whats really going on is the car leans on the outer front wheel the Tyre develop way more grip than a traditional type of set up and Toes In and turns the car a bit more. I can feel the car leaning gripping up the outer tyre. Then the back of the DC5 comes around (rear steer) and allows me to get on the gas way earlier than anyone else. The Steering wheel is back straight after the initial Turn In. I control the back end by light Brake pressure (left foot brake). This set up has allowed me to break Track Records all over the place. Your set up is terribly slow, does not allow the FWD Car to 'rear steer' and does not allow you to be anywhere near to full throttle before the Apex. All you have is a 'safe' and basic type of Steering with less than normal amounts of grip being achieved. You still have much to 'experiment' with to find the answers. Indeed the company you mentioned are not even close, actually they have led you up the garden path so as to speak........ I've won every Championship and hold every Track Record where ever I've been. Pretty much says it all don't you think. My engine is nothing special, it's a 12 year old 250hp K 2147cc with a Type R Six Speed. Find D C V R on FB and have a look.
In this video I do mention Roll center geometry. But what I am taking about in depth is bump steer geometry. Which not only includes the intersection of upper/lower control arm front and rear joints but also the intersection of instant center where the imaginary directional line of the upper and lower control arm intersect. Having 0 bumper steer would be directly intersecting at this point. And my DC5 is setup to oversteer. It has over 10% rear bias with natural spring frequency. And will use a bigger sway to help with more rotation of the rear.
Do the buddy club RCA come with snap rings? Was worried to buy then because of the fear of them possibly popping out. Lmk how they were for you, thank you and great vid!
No they don't, they aren't needed. Unless your subframe came out or you bang curbs. There's really no strong forces trying to separate the ball joint in the LCA. Mine is still going strong after 2yrs of track abuse
Hey I noticed you have DC5R LCA but a lot of people say you need the matching knuckles brakes etc to make them work. It seems you don’t have those things. Would extended ball joints and camber bolts allow me to use them on my TEIN basic Coilovers or would I need camber plates (a local has the DC5R arms for a reasonable price)
Amazing video, I was just on their website wanting to look at the tie rod ends but weren’t on the site, I’ll keep looking for ends that look close to yours
Ktunes spherical tie rods are just like that, I put it in mine I just need to tune the camber for the front and rear end also the ride height for the track. But he's 100% correct my setup is just like this and I have zero bump steer but also I changed the steering rack bushing to SHG bushing which is amazing for ep3/rsx
Hey man love how you actually approach this stuff with data base proof and not just some bro talk, I have gone through three sets of inner tie rods from k tuned also have there inverted ends, also lowered with maybe a finger gap in height. I’m kinda defeated at this point I’m not super slammed with crazy camber, I just want a sporty type rsx meant really for auto cross and once in a while track use. Soo before I order a new set of tie rods I’m thinking of getting the hard race Inner Outer Tie rod set, SHG rack slider Then raising the car all around 1 inch I also have RCA ball joints. Am I heading in the right direction, do you think non inverted is the best option as well
Also wanted to add before I order hard race makes an RCA tie rod end as well, however they state it needs to be installed inverted, could I run it non inverted as you recommend even if it’s stated to be inverted install?
I was thinking the same thing, I was about to lower my car more and then figured out I need the adjustable tie rods and did some research and found out hardrace is the way to go. I heard you are getting a steering rack slider but what does that exactly do because I’m not sure if I should get one aswell
@@4bangermafia okay cool was curious because wasnt sure if I had to run the Dc5r axles as well due to the added width. If your running oem Rsx axles good to know 👍
@@4bangermafia got ya, yeah I actually have the type r front knuckles with calipers so I guess in my case then I would need to run dc5r sway bar,aluminum lca, and axles. Thanks a lot for the help great vids! 👍
Hay 4 banger I used to be a vw guy the mk 4 golf chassi had bump stear when you got to low we would swap out audi TT hubs that have a flipped tie rod end I was I now have an uk spec 5 door ep3 shap type s k20a3 engine I've got really bad bump stear problems so i was thinking of flipping the tie rods on standard shocks and springs to counter this as uk roads are terrible were I live
@@4bangermafia its defo bump stear changed out the rack slider in case it was that but the roads are terrible hear in the uk keep up the vlogs dude I've lurned a lot from you dude #4 banger mafia
Hey man , i could really use your help! I own a kswapped 05 em2 coupe , with the ep3 eps rack Since that rack is in, nothing but steering problems ! I'm on kw v2 coilovers, lowered a bit , but not slammed or scraping everywhere.. Since the eps rack , the steering is sticky, almost no self centering , no feel , tramlining, never drives straight, sometimes i need to hold the wheel a bit to the left to drive straight, sometimes hd it a bit to the right, a crunch/knock sound from the left tie rod end when steering from lock to lock on standstill... it's goddamn awfull! Things i've done to negate it: - delrin rack slider -tegiwa rack raiser -hardrace adjustable tie rods -hardrace tie rod ends -hardrace rca's - 4-5 different alignements... Nothing even helps a little bit... steering feels exactly the same everytime... Next things i'll try is to refurbish the whole rack, put in solid rack bushings , and inverted tie rod ends... other than that, i'm out of ideas... Im really contemplating returning to a dc5 hydraulic rack... Whats your opinion about my problem? Thank you!
@@HouseOfPetrol try to run without them and see if it clears up those problems. Also get rid of rack riser and inverted tie rods to get rid of tramlining and bumpsteer.
@@4bangermafia lol , the raiser and the inverted tie rods where things i bought because i've read and been told that those where the things the get rid of those problems 😅.. manman i'm going nuts with the steering... the amount of money thrown at it without any difference at all...its driving me crazy... I have camber bolts but i dont have any crazy negative camber... -1 infront , - 1.3 in back...
Not sure if you still reply on here. I have mine mounted on the bottom and it has an angle downward on the tie rod so when I hit bumps it changes the toe really bad, I’m gonna mount it on the top and redo the alignment again. Is your coil over tapered still and you just used a regular bolt and nut to secure it? I have k tuned tie rods
Hey man. Are your ktuned rods the "inverted tie rods"? Because if they are. And you get and OEM outer. You will be missing a middle piece on the tie rod. You might have to email ktuned about getting that piece. If you look at ktuned's pictures for the inner only versus the inverted. The inner only has the piece I'm talking about. Where the OEM outer would spin onto
No it’s the full kit but the tapered piece slides from the top down so the tie rod is mounted on the bottom, I’m gonna copy his setup with a grade 8 bolt that fits the hole and mount the rod on top and be able to add more washers if necessary, I was just wondering if he drilled his coilover so there is no more taper on it for the straight bolt, my car has been sitting cause it drives like ass and I’m ready to fix it again. I had custom shorted inner stock tie rod before shorteded 3/4 of an inch in the middle and had a crazy angle upwards but didn’t drive that bad for being slammed, I changed over to k tuned tie rod kit and the car is all over the road and almost undriveable I just don’t want to put back my old setup because the inners are blown
Replace the LCA compliance bushing with a spherical bushing, that will fix your bump steer. I know it's an expensive route but I did on my ep3 with dc5r full swap and it eleminated all of the issues
@@4bangermafia LCA solid spherical bushings with positive caster(1deg) correct alot of the issues without major modifying, the only other way is for you to fabricate a custom rack that sits on the bottom of the subframe connecting both hubs the proper way, otherwise its a waste of time. the problem the EP3/RSX why it makes it even worse than your typical mcphearson strut car is the actual steering geometry, the steering rack is far from the control arms half way up the firewall and has these really long tie rods that approach the hubs at a weird angle. What this does is when the car is lowered it causes the car to toe drastically under roll, witch contributes really bad to understeer(even worse than you would normally get) The steering rack itself is probably one of the worst designs with its long tie rods connect to the center of the steering rack and the steering rack connects the tie rods from the middle of the rack instead of the ends like your typical car. the rods connect to this weird slider that pokes out from the steering rack and creates a lever arm so the forces from the tie rods actually twist the rack. So you hit a bump the tie rod pushes on the rack, makes it twist. The twisting affects the other wheel and as the tie rods are twisting up and down they're actually creating a steering effect witch makes the bump steer worse caused by the out of plane tie rod. so this car in particular causes horrible bump steer. There is a ball joint kit made by HardRace that drops the pivot point of the lower control arms further down about an inch that corrects the roll center and improves camber gain under roll(poor man's way of relocating the suspension pickup point) another way how to help is by replacing compliance bushing with a sold spherical adjustable design moving the LCA out while giving it positive caster, that effectively moves the strut forwards from the tie rods giving you a better top of strut to ball joint line, the positive caster gives you better self aligning torque, better self steer and you also get some negative camber gain as you turn the wheel. You want at least like half a positive caster degree.
@@bulletauto2605 I'm not sure how much of the video you watched. But I do go over this in this video. What you are referencing with the angle of control arms deals with instant center and roll center; not bumpsteer. Bumpsteer doesn't occur because of roll. It occurs on this chassis due to KPI of the upper strut and angle of the tie rods. When the strut goes thru bump travel. Since it's angled it travels towards the chassis. The tie rods connect at a point to. If you push the tie rod upwards thru it's travel it also moves towards the center until it reaches a 0 degree angle. So that's exactly why you need the tie rods to be angled. So when the steering arm connected to the strut begins to travel towards the chassis. The tie rod also travels towards the chassis. But typically the steering arm travels to the chassis at a faster rate than the tie rod does. This is what causes bumpsteer. Since now the steering arm is being pushed outwards by the time rod. So how do we fix this? We fix this mostly by changing the angle of the tie rod. Typically you can add spacers where the tie rod end connects to push it upwards or bring it closer to the steering arm. Doesn't stop there. When you start introducing caster angle you'll also need to adjust the Ackerman angle at the slider so the angle of the tie rod is reaching the steering arm at proper length. I have thoroughly experimented with this chassis. And even own a bumpsteer gauge. Only few people that can tell you more about it's geometry better than me.
Hi 4banger, first time to come across your channel, and I'm also trying to break a case with my dc5's strange steering with inverted ends, not sure if it cured bump steer or made it worse. What type of height are you on? Would running RCA and non inverted be fine for me? I'm about 1 finger gap as a rough reference. I don't have a bump steer gauge so I can't give accurate information about my experience. Hoping you could shed some more light in response. Thanks bro
Check my new video where I go over inverted tie rods. I used a bumpsteer gauge to determine that its best to NOT invert the Tie Rods. but you definitely want to run RCA. Having RCA always benefits; no disadvantages to it besides more cost.
@@4bangermafia thank you, just gone over it, it all makes sense now, the effort of your research is very informative and the fact you're sharing it is even better so please keep up the great work, much love bro
