Thank you for watching and Tolerating my horrific gunnery in the Mig-15. Thanks to Feisty for helping out and don't forget to support the channel at teespring.com/stores/growling-sidewinder-store
I love the way you post your losses too. Especially the sound you make when you get hit by your opponent. You sound dejected (but far from pissed - as I'd be). BTW, may I ask. 1) what is your monitor specification and 2) when software do you use to record your videos? I had a look at your specs but it was only the hardware in your computer, e.g. RAM, HD, graphics card etc.
@@GrowlingSidewinder That's very kind of you; thanks. The clarity is something else. Waiting for a few big contracts so will throw a few pennies your way when that comes through. Your content is excellent. One suggestion though. While your narration is superb. I think it would also be great to get the narration of your opponent to hear his/her thoughts so we can understand why they made the decisions they did. Then, splice the dialogue together for 'segment by segment decision making'. Keep up the great work.
Didn’t the US have hydralicly assisted controls and the Mig 15 not? Also, I believe I read that the US was using “G” suits while the mig pilots were not equipped with them.
@@ГеоргийМурзич Yeah the engine intake is right behind wing trailing edge. Pretty nice packaging that the wing root force bearing structure is not affected if one need to maintain the engine.
The radar ranging gunsight also had the lead for the guns already calculated. That is, you put the pipper on the MiG and the guns were already pointed ahead of the MiG. You didn't have to guess.
It seems like in this dogfight he used the position of the sun to blind you a lot when you were lining up. At least it happened to many times enough to be more then just a coincidence.
If there’s one thing flying the Sabre has taught me about the MiG 15, it’s that you should have just done multiple vertical loops until he gave up in disgust. ;)
The sabre had a better rudimentary computer gun sight as well. It would lead the target some what. Also the 86 was hydraulically controlled surfaces. Especially in the earlier models. The mig was still fly by wire. Making it much harder to control and maneuver in combat flying. Making it stick heavy. So says the documentary I saw. Stated by actual combat veterans and Chuck Yeager whom flew the first surrendered mig-15 the Americans had gained control of. So stick heavy, he bent the stick column trying to gain control of the plane pulling out of a dive.
@@samuelparker9882 That's very subjective opinion. I spoke with many MiG 15 (well actually Lim 2) pilots. They didn't confirmed such thing. There's also a lot of US pilots actually owning today a Lim 2 or MiG15bis privately. Here you can read what MiG15 is really like. From a US pilot himself: www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/april/04/mig-15-flying-the-enemy-fighter It's not a perfect plane and surely has it's faults (and there's a lot), but most what you write is just mistake. "In a powered dive, I reach Mach 0.85 before leveling off to perform a series of high-speed turns. At the upper reaches of the MiG’s speed range (this aircraft’s upper limit is lower because of the drop tanks), its controls feel balanced and responsive." >>Larry Salganek, owner and flight instructor of Jet Warbird Training Center in Santa Fe, N.M
I love the gunfights in the older jets. I feel like it really takes more skill and effort, i guess that's why it feels so rewarding. Awesome man, love this channel.
@@gsfbffxpdhhdf7043 Yes missiles are way better but there isn't much fun in simply pushing a button and having a missile fly 40km and then take out a target without them knowing. Perfecting the old planes that don't have fly by wire is a lot of fun and the gunfights are really tense and last a lot longer.
@@rubiconnn The "delete a bitch halfway across the world with no chance of resistance" stereotype just isn't true. You have an RWR, listen to it; you can guess when they're TWSing you, dive if you think they are; missiles have limited energy just like you, do some S-turning. Fox 3 is not an instant kill as long as you keep your wits about you.
@@rubiconnn both of you are wrong here... It's fully based on opinion, if you prefer gun shooting or missile fights. And you probably never played dcs before, when your saying that missiles requires no skill. Especially BVR fights are based on tactics and skills. Both are hard, gun shooting needs good aim, and missiles needs knowledge of your aircraft, the aircraft that the enemy is flying of you can recognize it, the tactics versus the enemy etc.
It's a game and a video made from a game so I do prefer the guns only fights as they're more fun to watch. Though heat seeking missiles do liven things up.
While I do try and live right to the end most people who are going to jump right back into a fresh plane or move onto something else forgo the extra action and time of bailing out. You see it a lot in tutorial type videos.
This is a cool new format, love the editing and thorough background of the aircraft. The Korean war is always overlooked but the aerial battles in that war outclassed the Vietnam war if you ask me. Vietnam was all missile shots. By the way, when you were talking talking about him flying fine without an aileron, didn't you win a dogfight against an f-5 with one elevator??
After eating so much grass, the MiG's engine just couldn't handle some .50s, lol. With a 10 minute dogfight, there might not be physical exhaustion on your end, but I bet some mental exhaustion was setting in.
An absolute legendary dogfight. Probably the best I've seen on your channel yet! Your knowledge of every planes strengths and weaknesses is astounding. You're making me want to venture into DCS territory. I've been all WarThunder sim and IL2 BOS up until now. Thanks for the great content!
For the record, "5,200 lbs of thrust plus all-flying tail" indicates that we're talking about an F-86E. The significantly superior F-86F (with 5,900+ lbs of thrust plus slightly larger wing) started equipping USAF units in Korea in early 1953. It was both faster and more maneuverable than the F-86E.
That was super fun to watch. My grandfather was a Korean War vet which also makes this kinda cool to see... Definitely do more of these Korean war era videos .
I'm 10 mins in and this seems to be your best video yet. I will have to watch the rest later, can't wait to see how this works out. Great job showing when to exit scissors!
@@GrowlingSidewinder Great flying, I think your tactics and flying were great. As you know, it's your lack of time with those guns that let you down. Plus Feisty's jinking, and use of the sun were first rate.
Read the book "A MiG-15 to Freedom", about the korean defector. It paints a very grim picture of the Mig15bis vs Sabres. The Sabres had a radar gunsight which gave them a huge advantage over the Mig15bis. Due to this the sabres had a much longer effective range for their guns.
Really liked the intro in this episode, in which you explained the history of the respective aircraft. That included their advantages and disadvantages. Great idea and definitely better than previous videos that do not contain such an intro.
The F-86 is empirically faster. It can be safely flown past the sonic barrier; the MIG-15 not so much. This basically means that the F-86 has the ability to disengage by diving and reaching speeds the MIG-15 cannot. That is a huge deal.
Great video and commentary. Don’t forget the Russian WW2 veteran pilots on the N. Korean side. This is one of the most iconic match ups in aerial combat history. My neck hurts from following the action. One of my cherished moments was watching this in person at an air show at Planes of Fame in California. Wonderful sounds as those two jets went at it!!!!
If pause at 13:30 you can see Darwin waving at him. The look one the squirrels faces are priceless. Who knew their eyes could open that wide... 13:50 Oh crap. Looks like Karma tried to get in on some of that action as well.
Watching this I was reminded of a low flying pilot who reported a bird strike. When they check out his jet the ground crew said that if it was a bird strike then it was still in its nest because all they found was bits of twigs.
I like the color settings you chose for this fight. I can tell the colors are quite "Vivid". Making the cockpit of your aircraft "Pop" more than usual. Your mic quality is doing better than ever aswell. And, for the people who don't know the difference between these two beasts of an aircraft have been told their pro's and cons. Thanks for that. As per usual, keep up the good work.
Man, everytime I see you "trying to eject" like at the last second I want to send you the "Ejection : A Second Too Late !" US Air Force training film from 1989 ! 🤣
Wow, What a great fight! Having 2 evenly matched pilots shows how even the planes are. If each of you exploit your advantages to and equal degree, you get a prolonged fight where the slimmest margin is the difference in the fight. Man, Feisty played that to perfection. Kudos to both of you.
If I remember correctly the lack of powered flight controls gave the MiG a huge disadvantage in a high speed dive. The heavier F-86 could dive faster and once the MiG's ailerons seized up it was all over. It would be good to know if this is modeled in the 15.
I'm pretty sure the MiG-15 had hydraulic controls seeing as the 17 had them. As a MiG-17 pilot said,it'd be impossible to fly the plane at all without hydraulic controls.
In my youth ('93) in Tustin California I went to a airshow to see a mock dog fight between these 2 aircraft. For some reason the Mig pilot became sick (we were told) and the F86 Pilot decided to do a demo in the Saber. On the second loop it was clear something was wrong and he came down with a nose up but continued to fall. Pancaked on the runway 300 some meters right in front of me. I remember the smoke being yellow and orange. That memory has been seared in to my brain since. 5 years later a entered recruitment training at San Diego
Nice dude! In the 1970s my grandfathet received a shot down Egyptian Mig 15 for his contributions to the IAF. I grew up literally playing in its cockpit in my backyard
Absolutely loved this. My Grandfather was a mechanic in the Airforce during Korea, he would tell me how he would use to work on the f-51 aircraft ( Thats P-51 until the airforce separated from the Army). I don't know if you recreated P-51 vs Mig-17 dog fights. How all the poor P-51 pilots could do was roll out of the way.
+1 Growling Sidewinder - I really enjoyed this one-on-one guns only dual since the planes are fairly evenly matched and pilot skills as well as a bit of luck determine who flies home to fight another day. I do wonder how long the average dog fight lasted over N. Korea back in the day. Also wonder how common duals like this were with no wingmen present.
Very good video. Nice intro. Beautiful graphics. And entertaining dogfight. That tree Dodge was incredible. And BTW you were flying at low altitude which is where the sabre performs better, so you did well. I think IRL these planes were equivalent and maybe the Mig was better but pilot skill makes the biggest difference.
I didn't hear the Mig-15 air brakes. Have you been using it ? There is a button on stick to deploy them and when you release the button they retract, so I think they were pretty much used on combat. That helps a lot to prevent overshoot on rolling scissors. Also they are electromagnetic so they are fast
I love the MiG-15 but one thing I have definitely noticed is speed management is very important. When I get an F-86 slow/jinking I either use airbrakes or just go vertical.
If I'm correct, the cannons on the MiG-15 were built for bomber interception purposes, but not really for dogfighting. On the other hand, the F-86 Sabre only had the 50 calibers for dogfighting purposes.
One other thing, i cant remember in the video if you mentioned it or not (im very tired while typing this), the f86 was loaded with tons of ammo, while yes they needed more of it to put a mig down, they could still afford to spend the ammunition while pursuing a target. The mig on the other hand, while it had hard hitting cannons, had a low ammo count and had to use it sparingly. Also, as another commenter mentioned, the f86 had a radar assisted gunsight while the N.Koreans had to lead their targets manually
Another awesome video. Just wanted to point out that there were Russian pilots flying for NK as well as the Chinese pilots flying with the NKs. It was a well known secret by the American pilots. The Russians would speak in Mandarin (I think) and as soon as a dogfight broke out they'd switch back to Russian.
Very interesting video. One advantage of the F-86 armed with six .50 cal. guns is that it carried around 1,800 total rounds. In a sustained dogfight as displayed in your video, the F-86 can get in more shots without worrying about running out of ammo as quickly as the MIG-15. At approx. 3,600 total rounds per minute firing rate (600rpm per gun x 6 = 60 rds. per second in one second bursts), that is 30 times the F-86 could take iffy shots and hope for a lucky hit, as happened in your video. Also, as in your video, it only takes one good hit to disable a sophisticated, modern jet aircraft. Since the development of the German Me-262, all jet aircraft are crammed with essential parts that require all of them to operate correctly in order to function. One little bitty bullet hole in the right place will doom the aircraft. Americans also used Armor-Piercing Incendiary bullets that easily penetrated the MIG's. Due to the high operating temperature and pressure of jet engines, one hole in a fuel, hydraulic or oil line will eventually disable the aircraft. Gun-camera footage from the Korean War showed the vapor trails from wounded MIG's that didn't make it back to their bases. Great video series, keep them coming!
Very cool, please do more early stuff, if you like. I tend toward the earlier aircraft, so as long as you're willing to make them, I'm sure as heck going to watch them. Lol. On another note, I really do like the lighting tweaks ED did. I think they need a bit more tweaking, but that 15's cockpit looks like a whole new thing with what they did to the lighting.
Nice video, fun stuff. He was pulling good moves. Keep in mind the MiG has a slower stall speed, and decelerates better, like you said. If the Sabre is low & slow in front of you like that, and you have closure, all you have to do is get slow early enough to prevent an overshoot-- pop the breaks, manage throttle. You'll win the race to 0, there's nothing he can do but go in, or give you time in the gunsight. But MiG's handling changes pretty dramatically with fuel load, which may have been a factor here. Not sure what you had it set for.
A few U.S. air force sabers went to Korea and combat trialed the 20mm cannon installation. But there was a lull in might activity during that time due to heavy migration losses.
Fist of all, as a new DCS pilot, I'm trying to absorb as much info as I can. Your videos are teaching me a lot, and I thank you for making them. I (think I) understand the tactical reasons for dogfights ending up close to the ground. It takes away one axis in six-axis space. And it denies gravitational potential energy to your opponent. But in this case, the MIG has a climb rate advantage. Why wouldn't you use that advantage to gain a potential energy advantage and be able to dictate the rate fight?
The North Korean MiG-15s all had a large white stripe painted down the middle of the control panel. According to the MiG pilot who defected, he motioned to Chuck Yeager (when Yeager was testing the MiG) with his hand as if the aircraft was in a spin. He was then motioned as if he was pushing the stick against the white stripe, made a circle with his finger, then held up 3 fingers, then motioned with his thumb as if to say bail out. Yeager got it; in a spin, push the stick against the white stripe, then after 3 more spins with no recovery, get the hell out. A pretty unstable aircraft just getting close to the edge of the flight envelope.
When I see this I think about a show my grandparents loved JAG. One episode a F-14 finds its way into Cuba and one of the lawyers used to fly them. One guy says we don't want certain people to know what makes the tomcat so deadly. Lawyer: "the pilot." The F-86 had a 10 to 1 kill ratio despite on paper the Mig appearing to be its equal. The pilot training was clearly in favor of the US. Again in the Vietnam War, F-4 had problems, but training was lacking as well. The navy focused on training and the air force focused on the plane. The navy saw improving kill ratios while the air force did not. The pilot is still a very important factor. Makes me glad our people train against the best German pilots who are flying Mig-29s
Really? "I say, sorry America, but those Russian johnnies insisted they wouldn't use those engines for warplanes and we took their word for it. That's jolly well not cricket, bad show all round."
@Christopher Smith You know it was Von Braun, german engineer who built the V2 missiles for Hitler, that helped America build the rockets used in the Apollo program don't you? Everybody pillaged WWII German innovations.
@Christopher Smith Even Einstein was a German scientist, who left his country to escape the Nazi regime and nearly didn't make it to America because they thought he was a communist sympathizer.
@Christopher Smith It wasn't a copy from the germans all, all four of those nations had started work on jet engine in the 30s, USSR stopped because they were invaded but the germans and Uk and usa stayed working on them. The british and german designs were fundamentally different, the british, i believe favoured the centrifugal flow design and the german favoured the Axial flow design.
Nice. Ive been flying the Sabre and it is very tough to defeat Mig 15s, one advantage I think I have is the Sabre's radar-gyro gunsight, can be useful at longer ranges.
#GrowlingSidewinder I’ve had so much fun watching this video as I do for every video you post but this one is a bit sentimental cuz I’m really into Korean era fighters 😊 so please if you make it into a series that’d be extra special. Moreover I’ve always heard that the mig has an extra edge in terms of maneuverability but the fast roll rate of the Sabre made it almost impossible to hit I don’t know how Russian and Korean pilots managed to down some Sabres
The MiG 15 design of cannon armament was because it was to counter not very maneuverable American B-29 bombers. Which it did admirably. In dogfights against F-86 aiming the cannons was more of a challenge whereas the F-86 had tracer rounds and an onboard radar which gave range and computed the necessary lead
I practice the MiG-15 quite a lot, though I am no expert on dogfighting. I mostly shoot at A-10A's for practice as I am preparing for the Museum Relic. I suppose shooting at the F-86 is similar, but I can't quite get to the firing solution in the first place :p. Though the A-10 is known for its ridiculous low speed maneuverbility, so I guess I can use it to learn dogfighting proper. I am going to lay out some of my experiences to properly aim the plane. I find the best way to shoot accurately is to employ the gyro gunsight, which is extremely accurate if used right, even for snapshots. Here are my experiences, first the basics: 1. Absolutely, set the wingspan right. If you get it wrong, you will be extremely frustrated. You don't, however, need to be exact. +- 1 meter is fine. 2. Bind an easy button to cage/uncage so you easily have reference to the boresight, which can be handy in extremely close range 2.5. Note that if you turn range all the way down, the sight is caged. I do not recommend this way as you lose range 3. Understand that the gyro sight is heavily "smoothed", so if your aircraft shakes a lot the sight is not accurate. 4. Deflection is correct if the internal vertices of diamonds frame the wings perfectly, AND you are pulling constant rate turn, AND you are on rear hemisphere of the bandit. 5. If everything goes right, shooting at an E-2 sized target at 400m should yield at least 70% accuracy. A-10A is a bit less due to size, but its engines are really easy to hit and takes 1 shot of 23mm to burst into flames. That was ideal situation. Here is my preferred way to make situation ideal. The following is the general routine: 1. Do not try to keep a constant distance and deflection and adjust the range to frame the target. This is too many variables, and your boresight inadvertedly shakes a lot, making the gyro solution useless. 2. Instead, set a range closer than current range, and gain closure rate. Uncage when you think you can pull for a solution, and use the gyro solution as a reference for maneuver. 3. Pull pipper towards target and try to keep it on target or slightly behind. Right before diamond frames the wingtips(i.e. crossing the set range), fire confidently. Either gun should be accurate. DO NOT OSCILLATE! Pull in one direction only. 4. If range is crossed before you can put pipper on target, shorten sight range aggressively until closer than current range. Repeat above. 5. If getting too close, cage sight for better eyeball solution. The above works anytime when you can pull one direction for about 0.5s, and works best if you are in bandit's rear hemisphere. It is reasonably accurate at any closure rate I tried and with either gun (yes, even the 37). When I do this correctly I always score hits on first burst, and it's utterly satisfying to see a volley of sparks emit exactly where aimed sending the bandit down in a fireball. I can't do more than 500m in general because the pipper just goes off the HUD, but that is just my bad dogfighting skills. Snapshots are also possible, even head on, as the gyro gives a rough idea where shells land. However, due to MiG-15's bad visibility I have to set range to something like 200m for snapshots. In any case, I find the gyro makes snapshots a bit easier.
Nice! Finally You come to the Korea! I hope that You will post in the future more Korea fight and also some Warbirds cause I feel they are more entertaining and with a little more skill involved. Thx.
According to Wikipedia the Soviets denied using captured German plans of the FW Ta-183 to base the MiG-15. If you look at the two side by side you can see the resemblance. What I always thought impressive was how forward thinking the German military designers were. Why else would there have been a project paperclip?
great to see some older birds in combat. the 4th gen stuff is great, but the older jets/warbirds require more piloting skill, so imho they're better for learning how to BFM.
Didn’t the US have hydralicly assisted controls and the Mig 15 not? Also, I believe I read that the US was using “G” suits while the mig pilots were not equipped with them.
What a cool fight, I totally love the early jet era. Could you please design some kind of small missions like defending bombers and getting into dogfights or destroying ground targets and destroy defenders? That would be really awesome to see. By the way, why are you always ejecting so lately?
Again, a great video to watch before I go to bed. As I said before; I love your clips, they are educational, intuitive and also bring some history to showcase the rivalry between Mig's and every other American made aircraft. But I do have two questions, first; how do you play this game? most of my gaming I played on Xbox, and currently, I'm overseas can I play this game on Xbox. second, can you make a video about the Iraq-Iran war of the 1980s? Mig 21 vs Tomcat, it was a very long war, and both sides used the air-force extensively. Thanks for your time. Vr Haz
I love your vids GS but the audio tends to be very weak and a bit hard to make out what you're saying...even with my speakers on full. Just thought I'd let you know...thanks.
Could you rate the platform ballistic firearm weapons for 3 second Weight of Fire (W.O.F.). Described by how much total projectile weight (in lbs) was produced during 3 seconds of continuous fire. Can you add maximum effective range as well. If I recall, from a reading, that W.O.F. was used due to a predicted average of 3 seconds on target. Great videos and great breakdowns. subbed.
