Who is this machine for? It's for ME! It's absolutely perfect. It's the greatest machine ever made, by a huge margin. There is only one drawback. I don't have the money to buy it! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Same here. You’ll have to add a proper grinder too, and you end up way above $4K for an espresso setup. At home, this is hardly justifiable, even though I hope I will have earned enough money to just buy one in the future.
@@Krmpfpksthat’s 1 eur a day for 11 years. Totally worth it from this perspective. And you’ll prepare on average more than 1 drink a day. It’s all a matter of perspective😅
@@pedrofigueiredo3660 it depends on your financial situation. Even if you have the money, taking $4K out of your budget now might mean a lot more in 11 years, depending where you are in life.
I have owned a DE1 Pro for over 2 years now. I agree with everything in this review, which is far and away the best review of the machine I have ever seen. Bravo!
I've been following Descent for years and just love their philosophy. The fact that when you comment on RU-vid or send an email John himself answers is huge. This machine is not built built for consumers, it's built for a community by an incredible engineer. That is what I find outstanding, they manage to be a profitable company by being open source and staying close to the community. That is just inspiring. I still hope to get one one day to go along with my Descent thermometer and milk jug, yes, I started small by buying those 😂
Decent has been around for like a blink for an eye and manufactures in China. All internals are plastic and yes open source just means clunky. Oh wow I get to use basecamp in my espresso workflow now lmao
Very fair review that perfectly describes the machine. This has been the best coffee experience I've ever encountered and ownership of the machine comes with a high level of company support.
This was a very useful review. I was looking at this as an option, but don't think I am ready for it yet. I still love the tactile aspect of making coffee. Fantastic non biased review. Thanks.
You say it's a tool and a test bench, and I think that's true, but the reason I was an early adopter and the reason why I don't plan on switching any time soon is for what I call, "great walk-up-ability" meaning that I can just walk up to it, pull a shot, and know what I'm going to get. I found a profile that I like, a brew ratio that works for most coffees, and I very rarely deviate from that experience.
videoing every machine leaving the factory has been an idea I ve had with dealing with problematic shipping/production as a small startup, nice to see someone actually did it
Great review. I have owned a DE1 for almost 2 years now. Having owned a GS3/MP, La Spaziale S1, an Isomac Tea, and numerous other machines, I can say that none even come close to the DE1 in terms of consistency and capabilities. If you are buying a machine for aesthetics and not the espresso it produces, you would be better of traditional. If you want the most flexible and consistent output, the DE1 is by far the best machine available. While I understand you comment regarding the cup warming capability, I will gladly trade the warm up time vs having a "space heater" sitting on my counter. The DE1 comes up to temperature in less than 4 minutes vs over 20 for the GS3. While I had to adjust my workflow, I no longer even think about it. What John and the team at Decent have created is absolutely the state of the art in espresso production.
It’s because of you that I now own a Breville Barista Pro. I know this has nothing to do with this video, but, it’s a testament to how awesome a presenter and teacher you are.
Thanks so much for an excellent review! I'm about 3 months behind you in DE1 ownership, and it's been so much fun. Lance compared the DE1 to a Tesla, and I think this is so apt. Most espresso machines will degrade in value and functionality as soon as you get it. The DE1 is unique in that it improves over time, through software updates like a Tesla. The analogy continues with how the DE1 treats efficiency. Boiler machines are inherently more inefficient and radiate a lot of waste heat. This is put to some use in a cup warmer, but it's important to note that it's because there's a large boiler (or two) leaking heat. Compare this to a gas engine that also radiates a lot of waste heat that is then used to heat the cabin for "free", but are actually only 35% efficient. A criticism of electric cars is that their efficiency goes down in cooler weather, but I argue it's opposite and that you're consciously heating your car when you need to and saving that energy when it's warm and you don't. The lack of an active cup warmer on the DE1 follows this same logic. You can also see this with the water tap on boiler machines. As most are connected to the steam boiler, the water is usually way too hot and highly mineralized through the creation of steam (I think the tap is traditionally there just to empty the boiler and wash the portafilter!). The hot water spout on the DE1 isn't perfect and a bit slow, but it's at the right temperature and mineral composition. One note is on manual control. You can actually control flow or pressure in real-time with the GHC by dragging your finger around the dial. While not as tactile and satisfying as a manual lever, this with SEP is how several classic lever machines were modeled, like the Leva. I think this feature is currently overshadowed by all the new profiles available (I swear I'll try Extractamundo one day), but it's there when we need it. Have you tried the tea portafilter yet? I think it's sneakily one of the best accessories for the DE1. You're able to automate a gong fu style tea in 3 minutes. I've modded a few of the profiles to stop on weight (much more precise), and have had excellent results. Any interest in a 3D printed drip tray indicator? I've made one for my setup with the Sheldon drip tray (both the tray and the indicator work great!), and I think I'll extend the design to the stock and Euan trays. Excited to learn the DE1 with your channel!
> You're able to automate a gong fu style tea in 3 minutes. Surely, "automated gongfu" is an oxymoron. > Most espresso machines will degrade in value and functionality as soon as you get it. At this tier? Most at this price level are "heirloom" grade machines, or at least that's the intention. I don't think we're going to see a lot of Linea Minis in landfill (at least until society collapses, anyway). And what do you mean by "degrade in functionality"? A 40 year-old machine that has been maintained/restored has the same functionality it had when new, surely? In fact, my Mara X GAINED functionality when I added a flow profiler to it. And when it comes to "wearing out", the pumps, pipes, tubes, valves etc... the DE1 isn't that different to any other machine in this price range, is it?
@@gospelofrye6881 If we say gong fu tea is tea done with great skill, then I'm more than happy to offload that skill to a computer :) 100% agree with you that a well maintained prosumer machine can operate very well for a very long time. But I was more referencing its functionality eroding against the changing state of coffee. Many machines are engineered to spec and can repeatably meet that spec. When spec changes, like when new brew methods come into fashion, it takes fairly major upgrades to match those methods. In comparison the DE1 is over engineered in anticipation of new brew methods, and meeting those specs is often just a push of software. For example stop on weight, stop on ratio, adaptive pressure and flow profiling (in one shot), long Slayer-style preinfusion, and temperature profiling were not available on release but have since been made available. Whether any of this has value to a user depends, but they are available.
Would love to hear an update. You haven't shared as much content with your Decent as I thought you might based on this video. How are you getting on with it? How does it compare with some of the other machines? I'm in the market - is it worth the premium vs something like an Ascaso? Have you used the custom profiles as much as you thought you might?
I absolutely love my Decent! Your reviews are extremely helpful, especially the previous DSx skin video, which clued me into all the extra functions it provided. Keep 'em coming Matt, thanks so much!
Really enjoyed watching this, despite me being a year late to the party. What is your workflow when flushing the group, considering the aftermarket drip tray, housing the Lunar?
My main concern right off the bat-how difficult is it to get replacement parts? Repairs? Being such a technical machine, will the average tech be able to troubleshoot and repair?
Nope! The machine definitely needs to be sent back to Decent for major repairs. Minor troubleshooting they're very responsive and will send you instructions / parts as needed. But this is definitely not a machine you can take to any espresso retailer and have fixed like a traditional boiler E61 or something else that a plumber could probably fix.
Super comprehensive review! Owning a BDB myself, I’d love to know what you meant by at the end of the vid: “it is not the same as a tactile E61 machine”. Do you mean the automation the Decent brings? As opposed to having to manually stand there timing your shot? I am so keen getting a decent for my next machine (and likely end machine), this video has been so informative on every facet and ins and out 🙌🏼
I more mean the tactile experience of moving a metal lever with a cam to start / stop the shots on an E61. Turning a big valve to start / stop steaming. Seeing the water come shooting out of the solenoid when the shot ends… makes you feel like your a train conductor or something, puts on a show for the guests!
Thanks for your deep reviews. Wha do you think about portafilter height is too high for a small cup and may spill coffee.? Can you buy two cups portafilter? Does it have an scale in order to weight the target shoot? Can you give a good quality option for a consumer coffee lover less than 2000 k? Thanks so much
It looks amazing, but tbh, part of what I like about espresso is the manual process. However the inner geek in me is pointing and nodding that it wants one :D It costs 3x my current dual boiler, so I'll pass for now until prices come down or there's a future update that make it irresistible.
Dear Lifestyle Lab, Having experimented with various espresso machines, and having worked with some pro systems, I was almost breathless listening to your review of this machine. Your "definition" of this device as a piece of scientific equipment was impressive and if true represents a complete change in the more "artistry" driven machines that have existed in the past, where the user had to come to know the machine intimately ( assets and more importantly faults ) and to juggle those qualities to create a quality result, and perhaps us the reason why there is such a reaction to the manner in which this machine presents itself. In all honesty if I was not a poor starving artist, I would purchase the DE1 in a heartbeat.
I'm curious what the cleanup and maintenance are like, compared to a more conventional E61 single/double boiler machine. I presume the usual Cafiza for the portafilter, but what about periodic descaling? I presume no caveats there? Any other maintenance that you find you have to do more/less of? Obviously some occasional cleaning of the touchscreen as one would do with any laptop screen, yeah? Guessing it's not Gorilla Glass, since it's not exposed to the same degree of (mis)handling that your cellphone would experience.
Cleaning is all handled very easily through the interface. Cafiza backflushs have their own “profile” that the machine will run. Descaling can be done easily through the menu system :) I find this machine to be far more hands-off than an E61 because the drip tray doesn’t fill up anywhere near as quickly, and things like purging the group head and steam wand can be automated
If you don't mind the appearance, I'd 100% recommend a bellow the tray solution. With the in tray, you either trust the water resistance of the Acaia, or what I do is I have a purging cup that I always have on the scale when not brewing for drips etc
I was incredibly excited about this machine, until I saw the price tag. I guess that's what happens, when you want to buy a tool, that really does everything
Nice informative video, can't afford the machine (maybe one day) But just wanted to ask the make of that black cup you have on the machine please as it looks really nice
In my opinion the hot water dispenser is actually one of the best features of the DE1. I think your problem with splashing is due to your using a scale recessed into the drip tray. I use Decent's blue tooth scale (which is quite thick) placed on top of the drip tray and don't have a problem with splashing when I make my americanos. The cup is closer to the dispenser, thus eliminating most splash. And with it's thermocoil system, you are ensured of fresh hot water - compared with stale hot water from most traditional dual boilers. The only issue with making americanos is the relatively small capacity of the water reservoir, which requires refill every fourth americano (about every other day for me.)
@@lfoggy3061 Yes, you can buy both a catering kit, which comes with a pump that you can feed into a larger source of water, or a plumbing kit which allows you to connect it to a water supply. It kicks on to refill the tank at whatever level you ask it to.
Great video, this is very intriguing and a little intimidating coming from an Apartamento 😅 How long does it take to heat up? I’m assuming you can schedule a time for it to turn on as well?
I use 2 XXLs and 1 XXXL in my coffee shop. I love the de1. I switched from the lunar+drip tray to the decent scale 1.1 where I cut out aluminum trays due to Bluetooth drop issues from the lunar
I’ve heard some complaints about Bluetooth drop, but have yet to experience it so didn’t dig too deep into it. So you find the Decent scale connectivity more stable?
@@LifestyleLab_ most definitely. However, I have mine always plugged into a USB hub under my counter as the battery is poor on them. Acaia batteries are poor for how much I use them in a day as well. I always found that the acaia BT would drop when the scales would get hot from overuse or when water might drop on top of the scale...which can happen quite often during the day
@@LifestyleLab_ i used the Decent scale since the release (first batch collected from the DE factory) but until a few weeks ago, I switch to the Lunar and never go back. The connection on the Decent scales would occasionally drop but one you pair the Lunar, they stuck with each other.
Excellent review... Really like the light roast experimental ability. Where the natural coffee flavours come through vs tasting different roast levels...
This is one of the few machines that intrigues me. Over the decades have owned, rebuilt and repaired lots of home and com semi-com pump and lever machines. Never had a commercial lever though, just Olympia, Pavoni, and Faemina. The Decent can be any machine you tell it to be as it can duplicate the profile of such. Minimalist clean design IMO that will do more than a big LM or Slayer for much less cost. I wonder if the ceramic trays were used to add weight to the machine? Lighter thermo machines are easier to move but can also dance on the table if the PF is locked hard. A question, can you set the brew temp to "no heat" as to pull a cold shot?
No matter the coffee machine you still need, Good Coffee Beans, a Good Grinder and the Ability to distribute and tamp your coffee correctly. So if the above is not done correctly the decent will be no better than any other machine.
Excellent review. I love that you waited a long time to release it. I feel that while it can attempt to make a lever machine profile, a 58mm machine cannot reproduce the type of shot that you can get out of a 49mm or 51mm unless you use the 25g triple basket.
@@LifestyleLab_ the wider baskets require a super fine grind, which makes it difficult to get even flow. Even if there isn't visual signs of channeling, typically there will be early blonding. The narrower baskets allow for a coarser ground due to a taller puck height, which will give more even flow. This way you don't have to choose between body and clarity -- you can have both. If you want to try it, get yourself a 25g basket for your decent, grind coarser, pack it full and tamp the hell out of it.
True, even John is now experimenting with baskets that have smaller bottom diameter. These would be sold separately. If a few people confirm that the DE1 can at that time truly replicate the lever profile taste (consensus is on the no side now), I may consider it - but not there yet.
@@LifestyleLab_ if you do test a 25g then I’d be curious about the need to “tamp the hell out of it” in light of what we learned from your previous tamp vs water pressure test suite. I’m still quietly coveting a Decent. But I suspect I’ll need a genuine commercial business case to warrant such investment. Quitting coffee is easy: I do it every other month.
Just one thing. I’ve read repeatedly on the Home-Barista forum that espressos made with Decent lever profiles don’t taste the same as one’s pulled on actual lever machines. Apparently this is because the Decent cannot shower water on the puck initially with the near instantaneous force and volume of a column of water in a lever group. I think the main taste difference has to do with mouthfeel but there may be other parameters.
To properly hit the puck with instant pressure there is a way to properly configure the shot flow deeper into the settings It’s essentially like dumping the clutch on a car, I’ll try to dig into this further, forget where I saw it
You could, not the most elegant solution, but possible. Could also use the hot water spout. I am nitpicking, but nothing beats just pulling a hot dry cup off the top of a machine
I saw an app update video from them recently that shows how they fixed the hot water sputteriness, and an example for heating cups! (Though, not with a dedicated heater as you mentioned.)
I get all giddy when I see the Decent, just love the machine. Will be a customer as soon as I get more shot pulling experience. Will gladly give up the manual process to have the lovely data and settings present.
You don't need any shot pulling experience to get it. I went from zero experience to a Decent machine and the community and profiles are so great you will be making great espresso in no time.
The short burst sound from pump when it's running shots was because it makes higher flow rate as recipes require and without building up the pressure like regular machines, normally pump machine would build up its pressure within 5 to 7seconds up to 9bar, depends on what machines, and that's not good enough to explore espresso nowadays, how do you gonna achieve up to, let's say 7ml/s without the pressure builds up, short burst with two sets of pumps, however, this approach isn't possible for many other machines out there and it requires integration of hardware and software, that's root of other manufacture are lacking, or should I say that's the approach what they are not willing to take, at least my opinions. Oh, if I may, did u try the bloomging+allonge, this recipe would get you more out of your lighter beans(I don't have a Decent, but I now fully understand their approach and tested on my flow control machines with all those recipes).
Yes I mention the Blooming profile specifically in the espresso section of this review. It’s quite incredible and revealing. Allonge has a similar effect, but slightly more toned back than Blooming, and easier to dial in.
@@LifestyleLab_ I was saying that try bloom combine Allongé, after pause blooming was normal pressure profile till the end, but try use Allongé style after pause, it means that grind a little bit cause, let the high flow goes through the puck, say 4:1, 5:1 in the cup, it delivers more than just blooming, and John mentioned it as well in their stream.
Do you find that with all the technology it’s because too burdensome and too much of a chore or do you find that it makes pulling shots more efficient and less time consuming?
Love the look because it's just the right size as it will fit in a normal kitchen absolutely. There are great portable espresso machines for camping use too...a whole World worth a review to. Great watch!
It’s beautiful, but… NO - Sticking with my old-school Gaggia for now. I like the clicky switches. I can take it apart and mod it. And, I like a challenge LOL!
Have been waiting for this review ever since you first impression video. For steaming capability, would you say it produces better microfoam than the top-of-the-range E61 machines?
I would say that the steam dryness is up there with the best I’ve ever used. The flexibility to change flow rate is also very nice depending on if your aiming to serve back to back drinks quickly, or make one drink absolutely perfectly
They’re constantly being updated over the air, no worries about going out of date :) and the software is completely open source, so even if Decent were to go somewhere, the software will continue to be developed and supported which is pretty cool
really nice video :) would be cool video, would be happy to see your view for commercial application using Decent 😀 i am very happy as this machine is from Hong Kong my home town 😆
Excellent review - you have swayed my opinion of it quite a bit :). A couple of questions: Did you find yourself getting overwhelmed with possibilities trying to get the best out of lighter roasts? For myself even on the Oracle I sometimes think of changing too many variables at one times and truly get lost in the sauce. 2) I probably missed you mentioning, but how much was it in CAD including duties and all that? Thanks.
This was something I definitely wanted to mention, there can be a tendency to be overwhelmed with possibilities, but in the end there are some very good starting points like the Allonge and Blooming that will produce results that are better than any other machine right off the hop with light roasts. So any further tweaking is slight. Temperature, tweaking brew ratio, same as you would with a stock 9 bar machine. However, if you get into creating your own profiles… yes, lost in the sauce is a good way of putting it, haha
Amazing video again! Really useful info! In this video I think I saw a quick glimpse of the Zerowater pitcher? Would be amazing if you could one day make a video about the water you use as well. Currently I’m still buying super market water which isn’t really good for the environment and is quite expensive. I read great things about zerowater, but did read that having no minerals in your water makes your espresso taste not so great either. Love to hear your view on that. Keep up making these great videos 👏🔥
That’s actually a Brita not zero water. You absolutely need some minerals, not only for taste but also for machine safety! My current setup is using a half packet of Perfect Coffee Water mix into 4L of distilled water. This puts the PPM at around 75 which is right in a safe range for espresso machines
Just checked. The water I currently use is about 33PPM. So slightly low. Will have to see how to get the perfect coffee water to the Netherlands since the shipping of one pack is already 40$ 🥲
Just picked up a used one. Great review. I need to rewatch your DSx skin video. Do you think you'll do any more videos on how to get the most out of the machine?
Been watching for a while, love the evolutionary journey… I’m not ready for decent me thinks and your video certainly helped me to get to that conclusion. So I’m looking at the plethora of pro(ish)sumer machines. Any thoughts on the Elektra verve?
I hesitated buying this machine because I’ve seen some reviewers talk about steam pressure/steam wand especially as it pertains to achieving great micro foam for latte art. Sounds like you really liked the wand. Maybe I should rethink it.
I think that (with any espresso machine) you can steam quality microfoam or quick microfoam, take your pick, or compromise somewhere in the middle. The Decent allows you to select flow rate and temperature, and it remains stable - I know this because they also supply a real-time steaming graph
Nice machine and technology. Price is just not majority of coffee loving people can afford. My concern is if the company ever out of business, the online software won’t be available to use. And maybe there will some fees to continue using the software for company needs residual income.
@@LifestyleLab_I’ve got the rocket but am looking at the ECM synchronika, I was really hoping to see your view on the rocket with flow control! Totally understand the science/geek side of the decent but making an espresso for me is just as much about the tactile experience and the decent really has no appeal to me in that regard. Thanks for all your work by the way!
The downside of E61 flow control is that it’s not a direct relationship between flow and dial position because the pressure differential across the valve also comes into play, as the pressure builds at the puck, the flow with naturally slow even with the same valve position. However, I do still believe it is a very worthwhile upgrade on an E61. It allows you to pre-infuse better, and taper towards the end of the shot. Just don’t expect to be duplicating any crazy flow profiles with it. Video to come, but that’s the idea behind it in my opinion :)
Any hint of when they might come out with the updated steam wand mentioned @15:28? I'm looking to buy a decent in the next year or so and don't want to miss out on this feature if it is coming out.
Don’t let it stop you from buying! The way they are doing it isn’t something built in to the machine, nor is it proprietary to Decent. When the software update comes out, you’ll be able to buy the hardware you need locally
Thank you for the great video! I'm interested in the machine and just visited the Decent website. It's a train wreck, and I certainly hope it is not representative of the quality of the machine.
@@LifestyleLab_ I guess so. They list the legs as an accessory. Do the legs come with the machine or must they be purchased separately? I couldn't find the drip tray with the built in scale. Did you buy it elsewhere?
Aha, the legs are just service parts, they sell replacement covers, legs, group head covers etc…. They absolutely come with the machine. Drip tray cover was aftermarket, made by Euan Lake I have it linked in the description
The idea at least for the DE1 was never a full integration of the temperature probe into the steam wand. Their idea was to use a Bluetooth thermometer that could sync with the machine
@@robertusga I don't think it's something that ever came to fruition unfortunately. They have a new machine on the way, so I'm guessing it's something they will include in that.
Rinse button would introduce dirty water to the cup, water spout was splashy as discussed. I tried many workflows, and that was simply the one that worked best :)
@@LifestyleLab_ But if you didn't do a flush or 2nd flush - that dirty water just ends up in your coffee. My 12oz Bodum double walls are high enough to contain any splash. From a workflow - you lower the electric bill, get an extra flush, and warm the cup all in one press. But I do admire the purist viewpoint. I just do it while I dose and grind, then toss the extra and brew.
Wow! What an AMAZING presentation looks very expensive cause I have not even seen this anywhere. Must be a thing of the future ☆ The UFO 🛸 of Coffee Machines!
Great video. I have had my Decent for about a year now. Love the machine, company, community, etc. However, if I had any nitpicks it would be around the water storage and drip tray material. I have the white version and I find that it stains quite easily and is extremely hard to clean once that occurs. As for the water tank, if I leave the water for a few days, I do see some dust, etc floating on the surface- some people sell covers for the tank for this reason. A simple pyrex style glass or even stainless steel would be easier to clean. Otherwise no complaints 😎👍
@@adammacfarland6415 yeah, I travel quite a bit, and after a few days/week of no use.. the water evaporates/ picks up some particles. And the drip tray becomes quite hard to clean once any coffee dries.
