What I found amusing about this episode is there was a nearly 2 hr discussion and almost no one cut anyone off. Get 3 women together on your show and no one can get a word in without screaming over one another.
Except I noticed pearl would cut off and talk over Timothy Gordon frequently and didn't let him finish the point he was making, probably because his ideas conflict heavily with hers. But yes all the other guys were respectful.
@@adouloslabelh2957 🙄 I love and appreciate women, and my sisters are some of the best people I know, period. It doesn't mean you hate women when you dare to make accurate observations about their general nature, just fyi. To pretend otherwise is very disingenuous, and seems to be a "triggered" overly emotional response. Not to mention a strawman. It's like even the most tame criticism has to be met with accusations of misogyny, then shaming language. Honestly it says far more about you than the OP. Edit: Just noticed "4Bmovement" in your post. I get it now. Your accusations of hatred are pure projection. Good luck with your self inflicted problems.
All of this is self-correcting. Society will collapse and women will come running back to the "average man" in no time. I'll be dead by then, so I won't care.
We have to live thru the results before it will ever be changed or just leave the west and let them hash it out and go somewhere else that is doing something else?
it took place many times over 30 years ago. The conversation isn't enough. Also there were political actions to support those conversations but it wasn't strong enough. The more you know.
Unfortunately people only take action when shit has already hit the fan. Example, a very famous bar in my city didn't have security cameras since the beginning (been there 20+ years). It took a major barfight for the owner to finally install security cameras. Same with male/female dynamics. The reason women and male politicians didn't listen was because there would not be a major fight for years to come.
The two guys arguing for marriage are both happily married and have not lived in the real world the rest of men do. They are basically spoiled brats telling everyone else to stop complaining. Stephen Crowder also did this.
Most women hate most men. Why would you want to be with someone that thinks they are settling for you. You can love a women or you can understand a woman, you can't do both
tired of simping, yet theyll still call Muslim men misogynists ie still simping, it runs deep with westerners, even though their societies failed, they still trying to castigate other cultures whose women are still nice
Tim’s problem is there is literally no enforcement mechanism. He cannot enforce submission, not with financial, physical, mental, or legal ways. Women can report all of these things to the state, file for divorce, and the man has lost. There is no system for him to enforce. Support, maybe, but not enforce. That is Paul’s whole argument. Just be realistic.
Theoretically, by the marriage, them man has some idea of whether the woman will submit to his will and obey him. If she won't, he should move on to someone better.
It's a rookie mistake to think that the objective of life is happiness. We are not here to be happy. We are here to suffer until we realise we are under the curse of sin and are totally screwed. At which point we are supposed to call out sincerely to God and hope that He is there. He does the rest. Then we tell other people. Life is nothing to do with happiness. It's about being reconciled to God through Christ.
@@BonusHole? I don't think anybody looks at marriage like oh man I want to get married and then it's just going to suck, like it's an endurance event where I'm just going to hold on and then hopefully I can be miserable and stay miserable in the marriage. I think it comes down to more good times than bad. Most marriages are far from perfect, and most don't even come close .
Every Western and Westernized women. Western women love the Western world more then their own children because the Western laws especially America Allows it's women to do foul things to men and get away with it. Only in the Western world women can completely dress like perverts they be Dressed yet Naked and that's just one issue Western women are Allowed to get away with. Don't trust Western and Westernized women plane and simple
”To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. YOUR DESIRE SHALL BE CONTRARY TO YOUR HUSBAND, but he shall rule over you.” And to Adam he said, “BECAUSE YOU HAVE LISTENED TO THE VOICE OF YOUR WIFE and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;“ Genesis 3:16-17 ESV ------ That curse given to ALL WOMEN necessarily means that ALL WOMEN have something going on inside of them that merits being “flagged” as a cautionary sign for men. The goal is to find a woman that: 1) Is aware of her cursed nature 2) Doesn’t want to live by it 3) Can demonstrate her ability to do self-work via: taking responsibility, allowing herself to being held accountable and being able to demonstrate that she can successfully put certain mindsets and behaviors behind her and move forward in righteousness. Such a person must first LOATHE who they’ve become in order to genuinely desire to change their ways: ”Then you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations.“ Ezekiel 36:31 ESV
I think a lot of young men today are going to have to get used to being single/unmarried, whether they like it or not. I'm not saying men should develop a defeated attitude & slowly decay like roadkill or anything but Aaron Clarey has done a phenomenal job writing about the dearth of marriageable women for young men in particular. Men have to become content with themselves & who they are first, even if they absolutely insist on getting married, as maybe they see that as a core value of their religious faith. Don't be afraid to walk out on a date if she refuses to reciprocate your deeply held religious convictions. Be careful out there brothers, God bless.
Proverbs 21:19-21 It's better to live alone in the desert than with a quarrelsome, complaining wife. The wise have wealth and luxury, but fools spend whatever they get. Whoever pursues righteousness and unfailing love will find life, righteousness, and honor.
Our calling first and foremost is to be single. This is both men and women. The marriage Covenant is a SERIOUS thing to enter into and is neither mandatory nor is it to be entered into lightly. For the Israelites like Mary and Joseph their marriage partner was chosen for them by their parents at an age neither Mary nor Joseph would care about such things. They where then expected to honour their parents and God in marriage for the rest of their lives. Marriage is a functional and practical thing, not a romantic thing. It is the foundation of human society and God's intention has never been for us to surrender this to the whims of horny teenagers and young adults. Creating people is also serious business - our children do not inherit our Salvation and are not 'born Christian'. When we make them and bring them into life they are headed to hell and we have no reason to assume they will make it to heaven. If being raised in a Christian home amounted to children becoming Christians we would continue to see more and more Christians eventually taking over society. What we see in reality is being raised in a Christian home is the biggest indicator that you will be an atheist as an adult.
Bingo. Thank you. Also, until one’s own cup overflows, one is incapable of love as love is at its core, giving without a need in return. Until one’s cup overflows, all expressions of “love” are barter = business.
I think today this applies to feminized men as well. And they're so brainwashed on ' toxic masculinity ' they don't realize they're effeminate.who new Adam Corolla had mystic skills, when he wrote in 50 years we'll all be chicks.
My grandmother is an (orthodox) Roman Catholic, she takes communion to the elderly and shut-ins every sunday, AND she's a raging Fenimist. So don't tell me that it's only a protestant issue.
@dreamingmusic, excellent point. These guys are theorists. They have both been married for 20 years. They are oblivious that dating is totally different after 2012. Obama was against gay marriage when he ran for office in 2007. By 2011 the Dems were all in on gay rights and feminism kicked into high gear same time as the Trayvon Martin marches which paved the way for BLM. Women are followers. They are following the establishment. The establishment is for all intents and purposes Communist. It is not fun dealing with these women let alone marrying them.
Moreover not many are worthy of such efforts. This is one of the biggest issues with hookup dating apps there's no telling how damaged said woman actually is on average. Combine that will the entitled attitudes and unrealistic expectations it's no wonder guys are turning to video games. You can only try so many times before you are forced to recalibrate for the sake of your mental health
Elam is correct in terms of us being able to get anything off the ground and into mainstream culture - when it comes to male issues universities won’t even acknowledge that there is a problem! Richard Reeves is in academia and he said the university is so woke that they won’t even consider that men are having problems in the current system. They are still full power ahead with pushing female empowerment so we have such a long way to go here Oh and we have another problem - most married men won’t dare disagree with their wife on hot culture topic issues . This is a big problem culturally and I have no idea how to fix it .
Elam is also correct that men should be single if they do not want to marry. Christians are not here to save society and economies by getting married to awful women and making a mockery of the marriage Covenant. We are here to bear witness of Christ and the coming Judgement. The Catholics on this panel you will notice do not have a Scriptural basis and have had to 'contextualise' what Paul said plainly and God had recorded as His Word. Paul Elam nailed them when he said 'That's what Scripture says' and they had to say 'we read Scripture differently'. Yeah no kidding - Catholics are not Christians - they are Catholics. They are the legacy of an Empire - the Roman Empire. The Catholic Church is THE wolf in a sheep's clothing led by an Office plainly called 'anti Christ'.
I'd say the only way is through conversations and actions, have love for feminists that hate you, be the man to them that they have nothing to actually hate, I go to a complementarian church and I'm patriarchy, just talk to people one at a time
Aaron Clarey, as usual, is on a different level than anyone else in this sphere. I don’t agree with every single thing he says, but he has a wisdom and perspective on all of this that I don’t hear elsewhere.
Things that they don’t understand about why the vast majority of men come to the Red Pill (MGTOW is the well Red Pill knowledge comes from) is that we were ALREADY MARIED AND GOT DIVORCE RAPED. In my case I watched my mom put my dad through the Divorce Industrial Court meat grinder and I still got married and run through it myself. That’s how we come to this position, hard learned lessons and brutal life experience. They don’t understand that men opting out of the game and living minimally is having a positive effect right now rather than in 2-3 generations time. The powers that be and women are seeing men not willing to be tax cattle and defend a society that has taken their stake in the outcome away and they are scared of the implications.
Yeah don't expect men who have been happily married for years to have the first clue what life is like for the rest of us. They have been exceptionally lucky thus far but are foolish to assume their lives will always be this way. Not long ago Stephen Crowder spoke just like the Catholic guys on here. Then his wife divorced him making at least allusions to physical abuse having occurred which to be clear I think is total nonsense but Stephen's life turned around on a dime that day. This is typical Conservative life pattern. God has a way of humbling the proud.
your divorce grape is tangential to my false accusation grape(saw a cell for the first time the night she found my court filings for divorce and that I was leaving her). In fact I think the Divorce Industrial Court and Fake Domestic Violence Court are both on the Amber Heard Wing. Some 20+ years ago. wow so odd I have never had an accusation since, because they say once and abuser always an abuser?
true and people who believe in an invisible sky wizard want to dismiss this. then why does GOD himself not show up in divorce courts to save believers?
Classic Beta male dismisses belief in God as belief in 'sky wizard'. When God Himself showed up, they crucified Him. So no - He is not coming to rescue you from divorce. He knows women are a nightmare and none of our marriages are legitimate anymore anyway.@@CEWIII9873
Translation of the 2 young dudes (not Paul, not Aaron): if she promises you X Y Z in front God, she’ll definitely keep her word Brah! Absolute BS. There is NO GOD in the family court (Coach Greg Adams)
Someone should've asked them - "ok say I follow your advice, get married, have kids... 10 years later she decides she's 'not happy' and we end up in a messy divorce. Are YOU going to pay my legal fees? Give me a place to stay if I lose my house? Is the church?" Of course they won't.
First of all thanks Pearl and the Audacity Network in making this much needed conversation possible. People can say a lot of negative things about Pearl but I don't see them talking about these topics that the panelists here talked about, and I don't see them putting out great panelists from different backgrounds and ideas and try and have a conversation. This is great. To answer Andrew's question why weren't there any men's rights groups trying to lobby. Well Paul Elam tried to form a men's group, not even a men's rights group, but just a men's group to talk about things and share their experience, sort of like a group therapy session kind of thing, and it immediately got banned from the SPLC. He talked about it on Honey Badger livestream if you are interested. Another answer to Andrew is that there's simply not enough support for men's rights issues. People just simply don't care about men. And this goes even deeper than egalitarianism and feminism. It's gynocentrism. Men are expendable. There's a reason why men's rights groups like honey badger radio don't get a lot of viewers and are demonetized long time ago. Politics at least nowadays is all about votes and support. And there's just not enough support for men's rights issues sadly.
Exactly, what you said about Pearl is very true because the more she (and others) pushes out content like this it will help change narratives about mens issues over time. Once men start being valued more it will make it easier to lobby for change etc.
Not enough support? Mens channels are some of the biggest channels on RU-vid bringing in millions of viewers and followers. Take that migtow cope back to Paul's channel. Christians are going to have to rescue you dorks once again.
@@menoyuno8430 I hate to break it to you, but she isn't the first. Karen Straughan, a generation ago was doing the same thing. You might still be able to find some of her videos under her name or her handle, "girlwriteswhat". And a generation before that you had Esther Vilar writing "The Manipulated Man". A fed generations before her there were the anti-suffragettes, fighting against the vote because it was unnatural and would lead to all the things that we're seeing today. But all of these things happened, because "They" wanted to give women the vote, because women are kinda stupid and easy to manipulate. So they gave women the vote to get more socialism in place; they put women in the workplace so they could tax the slightly larger half of the population's labors, and now they're pushing the population-reduction and interracial-relationships messaging to women, because they want a smaller population that is dumber and easier to control. Men will never be "valued" more because men are the ones that actually create their value. Men are fundamentally disposable, and to try and argue otherwise is to argue against human nature itself. So the options that are left are to 'evolve' into something other than a human--which is arguably in place with what the technocrats are trying to do, or to crash it all down and rebuild society, with some additional protections against what was learned this time--some actually quite ancient knowledge that was somehow forgotten collectively along the way, if people read Aristophanes plays...
Great show, diverse viewpoints. I'm a early MGTOW guy...we had to whisper in the shadows and try not to be beaten in the streets. Now, this is a conversation at the gym, on the job and now on the internet. A man has to be blind not to see the doom that comes from marriage and divorce. This is a multifaceted problem. My group of MGTOW men have been trying to figure it out for the past 10 years ...no solutions possible except tear everything down and start over. Until women need men for physical protection, food and shelter, we will continue down this road.
In given scenario w0m3n are still nefarious, liers and terrible persons, they only use you to survive, virginity is off the window and telegony and microchimerism in "at the door".
That's right. There's no turning things around now. The institutions are corrupted. The children minds have been destroyed. And the modern day woman has revealed herself as a selfish liar/cheater. Society has to completely crumble and start over again.
You do realise MGTOW parallels feminism right? It’s the same thing. Women complaining about men and not wanting to get married - now men complaining about women and not wanting to get married . Both are a wrong retaliation. Both are wrong.
Sorry Tim Gordon married a traditional Latin catholic mass woman who was spot on, on everything and we are still together but 12 years later have a sexless marriage and I am sole income earner(100k) and do most the house work. Women can change and goverment is there to protect them
Sorry bro ... I've been divorced fourteen years and still being fed to the meat grinder ! Definitely not easier after divorce . I miss my son the most .
Your husband is the man. The only debater who anihilated cucks Destiny and Vaush. Hopefully they invite him to Fresh and Fit soon. We love yall. Keep on doing gods work.
For such a Christian man (and I'm not questioning his faith rather pointing out what he's overlooked) why is he ignoring the most obvious solution to all of this; eliminating usury? Every institution being railed on, and rightfully so, is funded through usury which requires monetary expansion in order to be profitable, which triggers the Cantillon effect which is theft. You want this lobbying solution? Use a money that can't have it's supply increased. (hint: there's only one and it's not a yellow rock) EDIT: 61.8% of young people now adays are going to college and with a 2:1 female to male ratio (try being chaste in that environment), which makes sense when you take the top 62% of the intellectual bell curve, you get more of the mean IQ which women hover closer to and less of the lower extreme which men dominate. Imagine if debt wasn't profitable and only 5% of the young attended higher education, it would eliminate almost all women from this currently corrupt institution where they wouldn't be wasting away their most sexually valuable fertile years. This is just a $1.5 trillion dollar problem in the united states, we have $210T in unfunded liabilities that if we eradicated would completely cease the egalitarian problem mentioned so often in this podcast.
My wife of 23 years ran off with guy from high school got married didn't last 2 years then got married again and I'm not sure that lasted a year ! Sad to waste 23 years with someone but I'm glad she is gone now ! Only fun times ahead ! I didn't have kids with her thank God and no alimony ! I feel lucky ! Be careful who you marry but you really don't know the other person !
You’re not alone. Uncanny similarities to my case, where we were together 22 years before she ran off with her high school sweetheart who contacted her over Facebook direct messages. No kids in our case either. This was horrible but it could have been much, much worse.
People think mgtow men are some young loser tennagers who cant get girls,those are blackpill dudes but mgtow is full of older men that got married and destroyed why would they go through the system again.
Lol, call it what u want, it's all the same thing, its based on materialism and hedonism and is based in a subjective foundation, it can't justify morals or ought claims or truth or why we should care about truth or anything
@cnote3598 if objective truth exists then there is only 1 true philosophy that can justify morals and ought claims, a blanket philosophy is meaningless and when it's boiled down you get materialism and hedonism like every other philosophy but 1
@cnote3598 truth exists in general and truth in reality but if you want to understand a consistent worldview and theology and therefore philosophy it can only come from 1 true ideology, if multiple truths exist then tell me how something is true versus how something isn't true? Is 1+1=2 true along with 1+1=3? The laws of logic don't support ur incoherent claim
Guys, it has gotten so bad, you can safely assume there are no loyal women. I'm one of those guys, a Chad or whatever, that all women are chasing, and I see no exceptions. This needs to change, we can't keep society going this way.
You probably base your argument by thinking most women are like the top 1% attractive instagram models that most men want - BFFR most normal quiet girls are hopeless romantics… We can all agree and see that most men are c0rn addicts ; which literally alters their brain chemistry to not be able to be a loyal and monogamous.
Women are loyal to their own desires, makes sense. Men of all backgrounds are raised to protect women and women are raised to protect themselves not men, so there is the foundation.
Who here knows these creators?.....Barbarossa, Stardusk, spetsnaz, TFM, ayam serius, dark night, mayor of mgtown.....so many more i cant recall just now.
Marcel Enlightened, Hoard Dare, HappyHumbleHermit, TheSolitaryWolf, RPW, Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Mgtow, Liberation Y, Sunrise Hoodie and Colttaine... never forget Colttaine, the mgtow's Sherlock Holmes
I do not understand the need to "replace" marriage with anything. Paul is the og, and I respect him greatly. Ironically, I tend to associate with tradcons, but I can't argue with Paul's logic. The response of checking out cannot be argued against. The two arguing for marriage cannot escape the FACT that women change. All their talk about vetting and sacrimental and church accountability is bullshit. What is the church going to do in 10 years when your wife screws the neighbor? Nothing. They have zero power. So they excommunicate her... So what? He just lost his life and she gets a little public shame. Again, so what? She makes new friends and is fine in 2 months. He's ruined for years and years. So what do we replace marriage with? Nothing. Why the contract? The contract is a government thing. Marriage used to be a religious thing. It's not anymore. You want to be married? Call it pair bonded or something. Just don't sign a legal contract that gives power over your freedom, future and finances to the government.
There isn’t. That demand from Andrew is a deflection. Men decide individually whah they wanna replace it with. It’s not his place to demand a collective one
This was an absolutely fantastic discussion! Best one I've seen in a long, long time. Paul Elam is 100% THE MAN on giving the best advice and solutions, and it showed here, especially at the very end. I do have a couple of criticisms of Andrew and Tim though. Pearl has previously broken down the hierarchy as God, Man, Woman, Child, in that order. Well, you might expand it to God, Government, Man, Woman, Child, Animals. But, there are many arguments that say religions are cults, just like Feminism is a cult. True, religions have been responsible for the creation of our civilizations, but they have also been responsible for the most heinous of crimes against humanity, such as being the catalyst of many wars, and for the butchering of baby boys' gentials - hundreds of millions of them - for no apparent reason. When territorial governments started to form, they were based around religious doctrines, so the governments endorsed the religions as their social enforcers. And that continues to this day. Governments control society behaviour with laws, legally enforced with violence from the police, and socially enforced by the Church. If you Remove God and religion, from the hierarchy, then the Government becomes the new god. Which is how and why, Tim and Andrew's arguments completely collapse at this point. God is simply a man-made story of someone who is leading you, always above or ahead of you. In other words, there is always someone who is the alpha, bigger, or stronger, or smarter than you, and you had better be careful if you confront that person. The God religion of an omnicient all-seeing entity looking down from the clouds that has never been seen or heard or communicated directly with, is just silly. This is also extremely toxic and harms hundreds of millions of people every day. Now, take God and religions away, a la John Lennon's "Imagine", and suddenly we awake from this mass delusion and can get on with being more productive with our lives, without being held back by false shame, such as looking at a woman! Towards the end, it is Andrew, to his credit, who says that it is the laws that have to be tackled first, which go right to the heart of our society's problems. The laws determine the society. If they are biased towards women, then men have no option but to take alternative courses in life, and that might include checking out of the relationship game. There is no shame or harm in that. At least they are not going to be responsible for the certain de*th of their children, by creating them, knowing they are eventually going to di*. Most men and women want to reproduce but the rules of the game have been skewed so badly, it's hard for any man to risk entering the game. The cause of this? Men, bowing to pressure to giving too much ground to women in law making, such as the recent h*te-crime laws in Scotland for which the leader, Humza Yousuff had to resign in disgrace. Meritocricy and integrity must return to raise society's standards in the west. You do this only by electing common-sense, good quality leaders, that is, if you can find any you can trust!
Absolutely an incredible podcast with highly informed individuals offering the real world solutions that everyone else is afraid of saying! My son is 13, I lose sleep worrying about his options for a family.
@@veritasaeterna It would probably be better if he worked and waited a few years before trying to marry an 18 y/o woman. Relationships do a bit better when there is a bit of an age gap.
@@bli3366 perhaps, but its an uphill battle and ur most likely going to have to be with someone that has alot of issues cuz women like hedonism and money so the answer isnt very optmistic, hence why i argue for the younger the better
@@veritasaeterna You seem to misunderstand my point, which I thought was fairly clear... It is better for a man to wait a few years before marrying an 18 y/o woman. Or an 18 y/o girl should marry a man a few years older than herself. Two 18 y/os together lack any kind of experience, and the man can't guide his wife as the bible commands if he has no experience in life himself.
There is a video of a woman at the alter refusing to say she’d obey . I think the test holds firm . I haven’t met a woman who would say she’d obey . Not a single one .
Well, they don't have to announce it. They just have to do it. By the time you ask a girl to marry you, you ought to know if she has good values. No self-respecting man will spend much time with a woman who won't submit to his will.
Every single time that women ever got the vote, the country turned into a welfare state within 10 years. Except for the states; that took 14 years. Women overwhelmingly vote for big brother, and they love redistribution of wealth. Stefan Molyneux used to talk about this often, before he got de-platformed.
The two religious guys clearly have zero concept of what the average man is up against. The guy with the long hair is a spoon. Led with his credentials and got caught red-handed trying to strawman Paul Elam.
Great discussion, I think the only person I really disagreed with was Tim. He's clearly the most hostile to MGTOW, the MRM, and the Red Pill community. His reasoning can easily be debunked by including the men who HAVE been married and have later turned to one of these communities, myself included. We're certainly not all never-married and childless, a great portion of us have already been there and done that. His cheap provocations in saying stupid stuff like "tucking tail and running" are uncalled for. A great deal of us are making an informed decision predicated on a cost/rewards analysis, to not get involved, or re-involve ourselves, in marriage. I agree with Pearl that he is also very much naive to think he's so special that it is impossible for leftist ideology to creep into his family, and Pearl called that out perfectly.
Is he the one in the lower left? Tim, I think. He seems delusionally stubborn, and the type of guy who is always right until suddenly he is wrong because his wife divorces him, and then he is deeply broken
@ Winterascent Bottom left and top right are religious commentators. That whole movement come across as completely out of their depth on these issues. Wouldn't want to speculate why.
No. actually this was stumbled on centuries ago when people realized that “adhering” to doctrine that demanded morality, values, and discipline, was the foundation for strong cultures and healthy families. Nothing has changed about those necessities.
@@TomBombadil676Elam didn't have any strong arguments he's not even mgtow. Colttaine, Sandman, tfm or HappyHumbleHermit etc. Female nature is that actual mgtow focus and non if this has been brought up. These guys are facing level 1 bosses when they should be speaking with level 100
This was a really extraordinary panel with exception people. I really appreciate the effort putting this together. Im an ex-catholic, kinda went the atheist route, but this got me thinking, dont beleave that I will be in a place where I believe that anything like a god exists, but the benefit of Christianity and other religion to society is quite huge.
Tim is so full of himself. He’s the only person I’ve ever known (personally) who enjoys being unkind to people. Not only that but he lies and conceals truth that may shine a negative light on himself.
@@Paul_ElamPaul I respect and admire your defense of mgtow but please don't claim to be mgtow because the 101 of mgtow is no marriage or cohabitation with females.
MGTOW is largely survival. At its best it can be freedom, exploration, peace, contentment, higher state of consciousness, achievement, adventure, creativity etc. compare this to the meat grinder and slavery of gynocentric “society”.
@@mrwhite2039typical tradcons. There's more to life than just living for womens inner flesh. Also greatest men that ever lived didnt live for women. They lived to make a name for themselves, which mgtow is supposed to be all about. Only weak and pathetic men lived for womens validation and usually got none or unwanted women. Great men lived for greater cause, and womem were just byproducts they got on the side during their journey to their conquest.
The thing they're forgetting about MGTOW is that an awful lot of men get to MGTOW by getting married, having kids and getting put through the ringer. I don't bother dating anymore but I'm certainly not an absent father or out of the gene pool
Ive been looking for this video for *ages* This needs to be blasted across the internet in a much *much* bigger way. AC and PE have had a HUGE impact on my life.
When it comes to modern relationships, it’s simple about Power, Control, and Manipulation in the West. There’s a reason why you do not see this psychology and mentality in SE Asian cultures. In those cultures men and women compliment each other, not this competition “I’m just as good and better than You, watch me” type of mentality that’s destroyed relationships in the West. This is why Men are leaving for these countries. Great points on the current state of relationships in western cultures from everyone on the panel. Thanks to Pearl and all the Guy in this very important subject.
Imagine the kind of marriages that Tim and Andrew are recommending MGTOW men pursue: There they are at the wedding altar, hanging their heads with grim fatalism, saying to their brides-to-be, "Yes, I absolutely believe I have to get married, even though I don't want to, to do my part in perpetuating the species." His fiance would slap him and angrily storm away! 😂 It would be insulting to her! Then, Tim says MGTOW need to become priests. So, on threat of having to become a priest, I have to get married. And on threat of having to get married, I have to become a priest. What bondage!
Also Better Bachelor did a video in which the statistics showed that among the divorced or separated adults, 74% are Christian. The numbers aren't looking good for Christians. Now I do have to say, 51% are protestants and 19% are Catholics, but the point remains is that the number of marriage worthy women are extremely low and the risk is too high. In a recent stream from Andrew, he even said if he is single nowadays he probably would have stayed single because his standards are too high. So even he himself is agreeing on going his own way in this day an age.
@@Cleffa168 Oh yeah, thats right, I remember watching that video with BB but didn't know Andrew said that in another vid. It goes to show that sometimes mgtows biggest male critics can find themselves implementing the philosophy of going their own way without even realizing it.
@@menoyuno8430 It's from his live stream Thursday night on his crucible channel. It's not there either because he removed it or unlisted it. He usually removes his casual chatting/reacting/roasting streams and only keeps the more official debate streams on his channels. Maybe it's subscribers only, maybe it's removed idk. And in some point I actually respect him for saying that because that means he agrees at least to a certain extent what men in general go through. It's just he also has 5 daughters and it's to their best interest that don't check out of the market his plan of "out breeding the secularists" won't go so well when he has 5 daughters and Tim has 6 and majority of men have checked out of the market. At least I respect him for agreeing with Pearl that we have to change the laws. It's almost poetic justice that the two that push patriarchy the most, one has only daughters and one has 6 daughters and 1 son. So in order for them to help their daughters find eligible partners so they can continue breeding, they still have to face the problem that boys and men need to be treated fairly if not boys won't develop into capable eligible men for them or that eligible men would even consider marriage an option.
Aaron Clarey's statement that once women were able to make their own money, they were freed of having to depend on a man, plus they never really liked them anyway, pretty much covers the situation end to end.
Talking with the very religious always ends the same way because they see their religion as the ultimate answer. That is literally what their faith means.
The problem is the lack of a morale framework and willingness to put duty over hedonism as led as here. Some sort of universal moral system needs to be advocated for if you want society to prosper. If you don't want religion what do you propose?
Holy smokes this is my first time seeing almost any of this material and I am blown away. Bravo everyone. This is one of the single most important panels available. Keep up your good work. One question for my takeaway: does this mean I should not be a Baptist?
wohoo best panel ever! sign me up and take my money lets move this lobbying forward, im not even a citizen of the usa but heck its in my best for the social state in the usa to change because the usa influnces the whole world colturely
The religious view on this is basically summarized this way: "Men, come to church, do the things we say to do, the way we say to do them, and everything will work out." I call bullshit - from an experiential standpoint. Religion is just a cope, because nature will out, and you see that happening with women all over the west. Andrew and Tim are ridiculous - and props to Paul for asking the tough questions that the church guys couldn't answer.
I’m a young Christian man doing his best to be faithful to God in all ways, but I refuse to marry just for the sake of it. More and more of todays women will ruin your life if you marry them. I’m praying God will put the right woman in my life at the right time but I will not marry just for the sake of it.
I'm still at the beginning of the video, but it sounds like Tim is saying that if a husband doesn't achieve a perfect husbandly leadership score, and then his wife leaves him, then it's the husband's own fault. Has there ever been a perfect husband? Can there be? Of course not. Perhaps the wife, also, has responsibilities before the Lord to honor her husband. (Eph 5:33, 1 Peter 3:5-6, etc.)
I'm pretty familiar with Tim (and Andrew) & I like them, and do think they are consistent regarding Biblical duties for not just husbands but wives also. That being said, even in the more traditional Orthodox & Catholic churches, their preists will not orient their sermons around wives truly submitting to husbands (Ephesians 5:22,), older women having a duty to teach younger women (Titus 2:3-5), wives having a responsibility and obligation even to unbelieving or wayward husbands (1 Peter 3:1-2). They'll also neglect how God punished Eve separately due to Eve's own choices (see Genesis 3:16). You will never hear from these feminist priests that disobedience & rebelliousness originated inside the mind of Eve first, for example. Only "Adam man bad" exegesis They won't talk about the manipulative Proverbs 7 woman who was a harlot. In 1 Corinthians 7:5 - they don't emphasize the importance of a wife not sexually depriving her own husband. It's largely just high standards on men & infinite "get out of jail free" cards for women. This is not genuine traditional patriarchy. I'm all for high standards for men & husbands but ONLY if there are high standards for women & wives also. Oh & a definite argument for women veiling in church can be made additionally by St Paul in Corinthians. Can't call out inappropriately dressed women at church though, that's the "based & trad" patriarchal thing to do nowadays obviously, just let it slide right in like the serpent I suppose
@@mrwhite2039 It's not a straw man. Later in the video Gordon in typical fashion describes in detail the problem is: "Men are not leaders, etc etc etc." And Clarey responded (I'll paraphrase) : "We're asking a lot of 22 year old men; where they're told they're the cause of everything bad in America, there's no jobs, they can barely support themselves, and they need to be able to support a family, de-program modern women from feminist indoctrination, etc, when only 3% are marriage material - Men will do what corporations do, go overseas for a good woman. - The point is, Gordon is partially correct; men need to be leaders. Men need to require submission of their wives. Where he is wrong is in his rejection of reality. Men of the WWII generation didn't demand or require submission, women were naturally more submissive due to lack of feminist indoctrination. Men of the WWII generation raised the baby boomers i.e. the worst generation in recent history. The baby boomers raised generation X the lost generation. Men have not been taught to require submission from their wives in over 100 years. 23 year olds are not going to figure it out on their own. We - The Men who figured this out need to teach them and lead by example. Not blame them for not knowing this.
@@thaimuayshoo1171 Excellent points. These guys are unaware of how much gynocentric programming they have assimilated. You are obviously free. Congrats.
Women will only change when they have to deal with the accountability of their own decisions. Since accountability is a womens kryponite, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
This is exactly what is needed in the manosphere. From the Peterson's to the Tate's to the Elm's and RU-vidr Joker's/Coach Greg Adam's of the world. NO man is just one thing or can be all the same. But regardless of whatever differences there are we need to have and find that common ground and support manhood. To often men with one ideology of how a man should be attacks another man of a similar but different ideology and at the end of the day that gets us nowhere. It's time to unite under a common banner instead of bickering with each other about what we don't have in common because of whatever (usually incorrect) notions you think of the other people. And i think Andrew said it in his final statement that this needs to be ABOUT MEN ONLY. Not saying women can't be involved I'm saying the messaging is about MEN ONLY none of this but what about nonsense. Great episode.
I disagree. Men whining or talking or arguing about all this is moot & frankly getting to be a waste of time. We need women to come back to the negotiation table & start dating us "average guys" before the entire 1st world collapses....
Quality, much needed discussion & amazing content!! Unicorns do not exist in the West, neither do decent/semi-trad wives...... cheers to Pearl, Paul, and Cappy!
Great Talk, congrat's on this new show. Perhaps you could make a episode with a sedevacantist Catholic maybe a Father or Bishop, it's a interesting perspective.
Tim and Andrew seem out of touch with modern men. They misdefine their life conditions. Either a man marries a woman, or he's absolutely useless. There are clearly a lot of famous single men like Isaac Newton and Nicola Tesla that you're forgetting about.
Isaac Newton is also Christian as well. It's possible that a Christian man who upholds himself well biblically, but that also means holding women in a high standard as well, can't find a woman to settle down simply because he has high standards and majority of women don't meet his standards. Also I think a reason why both Tim and Andrew both find it important to specifically talk to Mgtows and talk about men's rights, is because Andrew has 5 daughters and Tim has 6 daughters. It's not looking good for them when they can't find eligible men to get married and have offsprings with. Andrew talked a lot about out breeding the secularists but with his 5 daughters and the current state of society in which women are propped up and how crippled boys are treated in society I don't know if they are going to out breed the secularists. In the end, you have to make the system fair so that boys can be boys and they can develop into capable men in order for your daughters to find eligible men to have offsprings to begin with.
@@Dunge0n - That's because he PAID the Catholic church for new birth certificates for his followers so that they could disappear and blend into the population with all new names. That's when he knew that the church was for sale.
That's something I think a lot of people miss. Men don't have a problem with risk or hardship as they with knowing everything rests on the whims of someone rewarded for betrayal.
Andrew is a Demi God amongst the Peasants, always love listening to this man, really a man's man in terms of having solutions for every problem. The last 3 years has pulled me closer to Christianity.
A religion that said that whoever believes in Christ would perform miracles greater than Jesus did. Also a religion whose main character - God himself, has the worst psychological traits: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully
This was one of the best discussions I've seen on this matter in a long time, and with a very well thought out panel. I feel like they missed out on the implications of technological advancements in the future generations/relationships though. I feel like it's easy to say that the more traditional folk will indeed carry on their genetics, but how exactly will those future generations succumb to future versions of things like A.I. and robotics that are already replacing in-person relationships as we speak? How do they think even God-fearing people in 50 years will be able to navigate those kinds of influences that already seem nearly impossible to overcome? I'd really love to hear their answers on that question.
This is what I was thinking too, its gonna be one maybe two generations until humans are basically non existent assuming AI doesn;t wipe us all out before then.
20 minutes in and Paul is the smartest and most sober man in the room. The other guys are young, naive and full of enthusiasm. I'm not trying to be divisive.
As much as I appreciate the Christian commentary, these guys are unable to address the real problem - that marriage is a losing bargain for men. Until that changes, men will hesitate to give a woman that commitment, Christian or not. It seems their answer is for men to just accept the risk and suffer. And not just suffer, but that it is man's biblical mandate to suffer. This is unjustified since women are 50% of the equation and must be accountable for their behaviours in the same way men are, in particular to the state.
47:24 see how disingenuous these faux Christians are - “we take a different interpretation of scripture” 😂 dude the scripture literally says how it is. FOLLOW THE RULES NOT MAKE YOUR OWN
@@darbyohara so, christian men should just get married even though getting divorced is no better than a coin toss? It's not the men, since women initiate divorces 80% of the time.
