Back when catalytic converters were new and I was in the local fire department we had a call to respond to an accident, we arrived and the FHP trouper arrived just behind us. He parked in tall dry tall grass an kept his engine on. We told him that he shouldn’t park there and were then informed that he knew what to do and to go FYS, also he stated that we weren’t needed at the scene. We left and were proceeding back to the station when we were called that his cruiser was on fire. Never park in tall grass and leave your engine running.
Great point on parking on combistable material. The driver may not have read the owners manual, had training of that specific vehicle - all vehicles say the same thing in the owners manual for not parking on weeds or dry material.
Engine does not need to be running, as CAT is still very hot after switch off. Bet you did not rush back to the incident, maybe took the scenic route back lol ?
Love the long videos. They make me feel like I just sat through another police academy class. Many academy students would benefit from subscribing to your channel.
Agreed! I like to put these videos (along with other listenable videos I find in my recommended feed) in a playlist that I listen to at work, and longer videos are definitely better for that.
I don't mind them either. I can see how a short & to point vid is easier to consume, but that comes off to me as a brief article with no substance. I prefer to know the whys & hows the law pertains to the issue. Steve does a great job of summing up these points. If it takes 45 min, then have at it. I've watched just about every eps he's put out (well, I stay up on each release). If it's something I'm uninterested or if I feel he's covered the topic, but then goes off on a tangent, I might cut off the video (especially since I listen to him at work). But updates carry more info than the org, and usually get into the more nuisances of the law, which I find fascinating.
By watching these videos, Mr. Lehto provides us with a very basic explanation into the intricacies and complexities of the law, possibly on the level of what a first year law student would encounter.
As someone who has worked on these vehicles before I can say I seen a few Ford exploders burn down . But what we found was since the suv has two alternators two batteries .wiring etc if there was a little impact to front of vehicle the radiator support would make contact with battery and poof up in smoke and also seen bad wiring done where some didn't put in a fusible link and wires would overheat and burn the vehicle down but what do I know I only been working on vehicles for 22 years keep the. Ideas coming Steve and hello from oakland california
I have never heard of a car with two alternators. Ford advertises that their Explorers come with a 250 amp alternator. Even at an idle, that would be putting out enough juice to run half a city. OK, half a small city, but a 250 amp alternator puts out a lot. I remember when a 60 amp alternator was heavy duty. It is also my understanding that outfitters hook the electrical direct to the battery. That bypasses the fuse box and any computer modules while giving the full amperage. It does require that they provide their own circuit breakers / fuses / fusible link.
I am so disappointed in that, while Mr. Lehto mentioned the X-File episode(s) on a person "spontaneously combusting", he overlooked the multiple instances of drummers for Spinal Tap, suffering the same fate.
I would rather the longer videos for the fact is you manage explain the law fairly easy for me to understand by the examples and experiences you have, plus you manage to help me look up things when I am curious.
In my lawsuit, the other side - my employer - withheld pertinent information before I even filed suit. They produced the wrong document under subpoena, so we had to request more specifically to get the correct document - 10 months after my initial request to my employer. This was the "smoking gun" document that proved I was entitled to 50% more than what they were arguing. They would not stipulate to allow us to amend the complaint. So we dismissed and refiled using the correct numbers. That's where it currently sits.
If they produced the wrong document then the correct course would have been to notify the other party more specifically for the document. If they still refused to produce it then you ask the court to enforce the subpoena. Getting a document under subpoena doesn't require a complaint be amended.
I bumped into a neighbor and found that he had purchased a used (2015) Ford Explorer that had been a police vehicle. Had 120,000 miles on it. Actually looked like a pretty good rig. 'One owner, non-smoker...'
Yes. I just watched something like 2.5 hours from the knowing better guy. If it takes 2.5 hours to tell the story, fine. If you can do it in 10 seconds like Lindybeige's "French tank" video, so be it. Just don't fluff it out with doublespeak like that third guy I watched recently whom I have already forgotten about.
I thought sure they were going to list the Pinto fires as relevent. I feel sorry for the company that wrapped the vehicle unless they wrapped the exhaust as well. I hope their insurance covers their legal fees.
I owned a 73 pinto there were a lot safer then suv's today because there was not a lot of plastics under the hood cars can over heat for a verity of reason back in the day all you had to do open the hood let it cool add some water and it would work again
I would love to see how they're going to claim that stickers added to the side panels caused a freakin fire. It's literally impossible as they are on the outside paneling, there is no interaction with any electrical work.
@@darrylbarker505 No, believe me, telling you that nobody cares about your grammaring does not mean I care about your grammaring. Don't get it twisted. Snark 2/10.
I love when you go into deep explanations of the issues with complaints. As someone who wants to learn the law, I appreciate everything you do on this channel.
Steve, love ya. I have had only 2 Ford cars. On both, both converters were placed right off the headers not more than 6 inches from block. When catalytic converters we first required they just placed them anywhere where they had room inline under the car.
@@krassimirpetrov7131 I just briefly went over the up fitters guide and it is very thorough with how to add lights, where to pull power from and how to route wiring.
Or ford just built a defective car, it does happen, it's very rare but happens Ford builds them for the police from factory to police specs, then another group comes and does the lights and sirens, so until we find out we don't really know, but don't jump saying it's lights guy when a car can catch fire randomly being brand new also
This lawsuit really doesnt have much to stand on. They dont even know what part of the car started the fire. (front -engine, mid -catalytic, back -gas tank). They are suing the people who put stickers on the car. I mean come on, they didnt do any investigation into the cause at all?
I was wondering if the vinyl wrap covered hood vents or some other air path that would otherwise hinder cooling under the hood. These people don't seem to know, but that would be one way a vinyl company could heat up under the hood.
I'll agree that the complaint is doing a HORRIBLE job of trying to explain WHY this car caught on fire. But it seems like the simple leg they do have to stand on is "we operated this vehicle in a manner consistent with how it is expected to be utilized and it caught on fire". I find it hard to find a way to claim this fire is the fault of the police department.
So I have 2013 and 2014 Police interceptor ie: explorers and the cat is attached to the exhaust manifold which puts it close to engine but not part of block. But the engine is transverse mounted. The current model the engine is mounted straight like your older ones so you are right that All the vehicles are definitely different the F-150 would be the most relevant. Thank you Steve
It's worth noting that the new interceptors can have the turbo V6 as well, which could push the catalytic converter further down the exhaust (and increase exhaust temperatures). I doubt it's a defect from Ford, though it's possible.
@@Vykk_Draygo The schematic for the 2023 Police Explorers have the catalytic convertors on each side under the two front seats. The pipes join under the rear seat into a muffler, then diverge into two tailpipes.
Yes, virtually all police departments send out their units for further upfitting of lights, decals, sirens, audio/visual equipment, and other police-related items or functions. We have one not far from me in Peachtree City, Georgia. They do many of the local units and state patrol units.
You are correct. Almost all departments will have contractors strip old vehicles of equipment and then re-install it on newly purchased vehicles. It's what we do in Gwinnett.
Steve - I hope you read this. The moment you said this was going to be longer than most... I got excited as I bet most of your fan base. It was obvious a junior or very young lawyer did this. I doubt a more experienced lawyer would feel the need to fluff this filing.... The only thing it seemed to be missing considering my observation were emojis. Great breakdown & commentary.
When I worked for a federal law enforcement agency, the new vehicles would arrive in stock mode (nothing changed) and we had to have lighting installed by another company. This was the same for vans and a 52 passenger bus.
Can confirm. Yeah you CAN buy a fully wired and lit up cruiser direct from Ford, but the cost is tremendous versus just having an upfitter do the work. The national police force here go through hundreds of cars, and I've never seen one come off the truck with any LE stuff save perhaps a partition.
From this video I glean two important details. First, the firm that drafted the complaint is not accustomed to automotive law. But my second take-a-way from this video is that there does not seem to be a report of a detailed forensic examination to determine the actual cause of the fire. A report from a trained fire inspector could be the lynchpin. If the origin was electrical, then what point of origin. If the fire originated in the exhaust system, where in the exhaust. Turbo seals are famous for bathing engine components with oil, and these things have 2 turbos. So where did the fire start, and why hasn't somebody determined that.
One of your best videos, I absolutely love learning more about the world through your unique and highly educated perspective. Not only should you make more like this (per your availability), but you should consider cataloguing your long, informative videos like these into their own video category on this channel, title them LEHTO'S DECONSTRUCTED LAW or something similar, just ideas. Either way, you're doing a great job and you help my time at work fly by fast - keep it up!
When the new Explorer was first shown by Ford they also had a picture of the Police Interceptor with lights and stickers. Implications that the Explorer is ready to be modified. The insurance company should have mentioned that the Police Interceptor is sold to Police agencies all over the country and are routinely modified and they don't burst in flames. The argument is the particular Explorer had an issue.
Were not alone👽👽👽👽 maybe they did it. If this fire was reported to national safety association wouldn't they investigate the cause to see if a safety recall is required? Looking forward to video #3 explaining cause of fire.
In the 1980s, the New Orleans Police Department had a rash of brand new Ford cruisers catching fire. The cars were usually totaled. Ford engineers came to the NOPD barn and discovered the cars had all the fluids checked before each shift. The maintenance techs were checking the transmission fluid with the transmission cold. They topped off the transmission, which overfilled it. When the transmission heated up, it blew fluid out the air vent and sprayed the catalytic converter. The transmission dipstick has the words "level hot" stamped on it.
Seems like Ford is just looking to get it dismissed...which, with this complaint, I don't blame them. Doesn't seem like a strong case at all. I love longer videos, especially by you explaining in detail about a case.
both the insurance company and the township are on the lawsuit. from a Cincinnati news article "The township and its insurance company, the Ohio Township Association Risk Management Authority, filed suit in Butler County Common Pleas Court on Feb. 9 against Ford and the Lebanon Ford dealership. They are seeking at minimum $48,353 plus other damages in the products liability suit." "The suit says OTARMA paid the township for the damaged vehicle but West Chester had to pay the $500 deductible"
@@phobos258 right but your remark was the police not doing their job investigating which would be the insurance company's job not the police who are the claimant of the insurance
@@anthonymacgregor9790 Well we're all dealing in hypotheticals until we get some discovery, but you're probably right that it's just some legal guy that decided it was a good idea. Either way I'm not shocked a municipality didn't do its due diligence.
I worked at a company that had a similar happening; 6 pickups all caught on fire within the first 1,000 miles. It was when GM changed body styles between 2006 and 2007. It turns out it was the fault of the company that was installing the electronic GPS systems, and strobe light packages.
Steve, your videos are nice to watch. I know little about law and you explain things so that even I can understand. I love the longer videos and the ones where you go back to cases you've previously discussed.
This video went into more detail than I wanted. But I listened to the whole thing anyway. Thanks for helping me understand issues of law like this one.
Great legal lesson analysis-Midday. The goofy sentences/paragraphs are the result of an English teacher who passed the Bar Exam. "One stormy night, the wind was shattering leaves against the pane of glass as the Ford Explorer burst into flames." Thanks for the comedy!!!
This reminds me of Legal Eagle suing an unnamed former president while he or she was in office under FIOA so they could see whether the administration would obey a FOIA request.
This lawsuit against Ford and the dealership seems frivolous at best. I can see this lawsuit against the company that modified it yes, but not against Ford or the dealership. Waiting 3 months to inform about the fire will not look good at all for the plantiff.
I don't believe they will be found culpable but I don't agree it is frivolous. They named all possible responsible parties in the suit. So in court all of these parties will be trying to prove the other party is responsible. It is possible that at the end they will all accept some percentage of the fault.
A vehicle that goes up in smoke is actually both safe and reliable. Since it can't go anywhere because it is not functional, it is therefore safe from everything it might encounter and you can also rely on it not going anywhere either.
If the express warranty could apply to this case, it seems crazy that they would forget to claim it. If for some reason it can't apply, then the whole case seems pretty weak. I guess not knowing what actually caused the fire is the biggest problem.
The Ford dealer is probably Lebanon Ford. They are a big supplier of Ford PPV's in SW Ohio. The shop that turns stock PPV"s into cruisers is in a separate building, on Lebanon Ford's lot. They build a lot of the Ford police cars used around here.
I took both of my cars last Saturday for emission inspections. Each time the inspector asked look under the hood. Raised hood glanced in and shut the hood. I asked the second time what he was doing and he said he was checking the catalytic converter. Awesome.
Eric O. at South Main Auto, a repair shop in up state New York, often finds that 'added' electrical / electronics are the cause of the malfunction that had rendered the vehicle inoperative.
Hey Steve I have something noteworthy to add that was not covered. As a mechanic for over 20 years I, as well as almost any mechanic have noticed, Ford vehicles have a sticker applied to the door jamb when they are prepared by Ford for ambulance or police package installment. I'm not sure if that has add any weight to either sides of this litigation but it is a factor. I do not know 100 percent everything that is modified by Ford before arriving at the dealership on these vehicles so I'm going to avoid comment section arguments my not speculating. Just wanted to bring that to light.
Always enjoy your videos very informative. No worries about the length of the video. Been working on these vehicles for well over 20 years. There are two versions of the Ford Explorer. One version is for the civilian use the other is the interceptor utility for police use. You can purchase them from Ford with police equipment installed and without most departments purchase them without and have their own upfitters install their equipment because sometimes you can reuse old equipment. I have seen bad installs and I have seen great installs unfortunately depends on Upfitter. I have installed police equipment. You just have to follow the manufacturers upfitters guide. They are well-built vehicles we have not had any issue with fires with any of our interceptors. I will stay informed about this case because I’m curious on what was the actual cause. Hope this clears up any questions about police equipment. FORD puts a lot of R&D in this vehicle for police work to protect the police officer. It’s a shame the vehicle was a loss, but it will shed some light on the issue with this vehicle whether it was a FORD issue or an up fitter issue.
One thought - in the UK, when the police buys large fleets, they usually built to order - with weird specs (big engines, but basic trim, extra electrics and int he past - tuned engines), and are sold without warranty. I unknowingly bought a 1986 ex-police Ford Granada - it was the biggest engine - 2.8i ( and we think it was tuned somehow). At the time, all 2.8i Granadas were Ghia spec, and mine had Ghia badging, but didnt have the full ghia spec - it has a basic specification - didnt have the rear spoiler, no front fog lights, had steel wheels, and no rear electric windows. On the VIN plate was a circular stamped disc that said "No Warranty". When we looked closer, it turned out to be one of the unmarked police spec cars, and part of the really good price that the police got was down to them not having a warranty. Ours had no signs of extra lights or radios at all - it was a terrible beige colour, and was likely the comissioners car or similar. I loved the car - went like stink, and was a lovely thing to drive.
Great job of analyzing the complaint. It was very instructive to hear the points you made. Personally I think it must have been the vinyl wrap that started the fire. LOL
I worked at an upfitter that did conversions for dumps, flatbed, etc. Commercial Fords have a sticker under their hood that states they are not responsible for damage caused by aftermarket parts. Ford knows it happens and can't control the quality of parts. (We used cheap parts at times)
Gonna back you up here, I work at the FRAP where many of those Explorers came through during the launch for *ahem* quality control. We had many of the police Explorers come through and while they are a specific model, it is more of a case of 'addition by subtraction'. The cars came through with different mats, no pushbutton start (keys only), no center armrest/console, a different wiring harness with exposed cables (presumably for power), hard plastic rear seats, rubberized floors, a-pillar lights and controls. More of a 'work truck' spec.
Yep. Proving a new claim can be tricky. If I was the attorney I'd probably point out 2021 Expedition had a fire recall, starting in the engine compartment on the passenger side (recommends parking the cars outdoors) and the 2022 Explorer (fuel leaks).
three areas to look at: - i thought there was always a (break in clause) to not stress the vehicle - the police equipment would add power draw(electrical & horsepower) and weight. so maybe swapped alternators(engine blick bolts evertigtened?). - improer installation could have nicked or damaged something fuel related. you need a fire investigator to determine source of the fire.
Very unlikely that the alternator would be replaced. The Interceptor comes from Ford with a upgrade 250 Amp alternator. The regular explorer is like 175 AMP.
I work for an Authority and purchase vehicles, mostly pickup trucks, for our staff to use. After we receive the trucks we send them out to have traffic control lights on them. This is something to keep in Mind.
depending on what engine was used in the ford there could have been a catalytic converter inside the engine bay but i think what happened is that the fuel system was defective to begin with this seems to be a very common defect among cars nowadays since alot of cars are using plastic for there fuel rails
I had a crown vic. Whenever I bought parts they asked if it has the interceptor package. Because cop car crown vics are speced slightly different, but still just a crown vic.
Steve , I love your video's , I just sit here nodding in agreement with the things you say because your comments are common sense , with this case I'm almost sure that Ford , at some point , will say ' we sold 1000's of Explorers in the same time period as this police one , throughout the country and this is the only one that ' spontaneously combusted ' , none of the others appeared to have been modified so it was the modifications that caused the fire, Just a guess , as a former UK police traffic officer , our cars have extensive modifications , not to the engines , but to do with lights , cameras , speed detectors , number plate recognition systems, sirens and radio equipment , all of which are electrical and are in addition to the standard features the car came with from the manufacturer and they require therefore extra power sources to be fitted that are in addition to what the manufacturer intended when the vehicle was designed , any electrical component can become hot to the extent that they combust , Ford would be unlucky in this case if they are found to be at fault , just my opinion.
Remember the airbag lawsuits? They started on a few specific vehicles. It came out that the units were on a ton of models and makes. That's going to come in if the injectors were defective. The same thing happened to Ford with some tires they sent out underinflated because of a roll over risk. There; was a spread when the exact problem became known.
After both videos on this case, I get the feeling that we are going to find out that the wreckage was disposed of prior to investigating the cause of the fire. I doubt if they have any evidence that points to a specific responsible party so they are just throwing everyone that touched the car in as a defendant.
Was a Ford tech . Faulty 02 sensor will cause cat to over heat. That's why I have a warranty. Worked on alot of vehicles that were mod by outside companies. Screws when adding mods through fuel lines,brake lines,wire harness. Number of vehicles produced in model's mentioned are in the millions. # 1 vehicle fire is trans over heating , sound sys install with no fuse, faulty 02 sensor, police parking in dry grass.
To answer one question: the Edge, Taurus, F-150, Expedition, Navigator, and MKC can use the same powertrain as the Explorer. That common powertrain is the 3.5L v6. The police Explorer was probably too new to have the 3.5 and probably had a related engine: the 3.3L v6. The "Police Interceptor Utility" Explorer (if that is what it was) is also a hybrid and that could complicate things.
The police version vehicles have heavy duty brakes, cooling, and other upgrades. The cop cars I was involved with were often plain Criwn Vic’s and many others bbuilt up as under cover cars. And some police interceptor crown Vic’s. The fire likely started with bad wiring which is in the engine compartment as well as in and under the dash, inside the headliner, trunks, cargo areas, etc. the interceptors came with two through firewall wires with triple taps (one constant hot and one ignition power) and shops often plug in everything to those and they do not support that much juice.
I have wondered for a while now if the "Big3" have some clerk/paralegal whose job is to watch all your videos and report to the lawyers what points you make as a QC option for their legal departments? And what is that payscale?
My guess is that Ford doesn't have such a clerk or paralegal. If they do, that person isn't doing the job very well, likely because they aren't paid enough to care.
