I interpreted the rebels as winning, which is why the cucked dead rebel is now regarded as a martyr and hero. If the rebels were the good guys they were rebelling for equal rights, or something else generic enough to be a quick throwaway line had it been included.
I like this episode mostly because it’s a great foundation episode for Trill, even more than the introduction episode we got in TNG. Not to mention I like the line from the judge: “You are either as old as my great granddaughter or 200 years my senior. Now I am beginning to see that both might be true.” Now that feels alien, that is the part of Trek I like.
The answer is simple, as any special effect is trek , he did not use it because it is expensive. In this case having the delta flyer doing round around the station was cheaper that animating the dogs or this whole scene with the tractor beem.
@@KertaDrake meanwhile, on Earth, at phaserpoint… “Listen, friend, _I don’t know_ where to find ‘the lost treasure of Gerry Adams’! I don’t think it even exists!”
“This is an informal hearing so let me give you some informal advice: I intend to be here to supper, not senility.” If that isn’t a good chuckle of what many would say, idk what is lol
@@Ceece20 “Now let's get started by giving you a little bit of a scenario of what my life is all about. First off, I am 35 years old, I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van down by the river!”
Ah, DS9 proving it can also do the tried and true Trek trope: the courtroom drama. To my surprise, guest star Anne Haney steals the episode as the crotchety 100 year old judge Renora.
You say ‘almost’, but I hope Louise Fletcher is included positively. To hate a character (Winn) that much is superb acting, same with Joffrey (GoT) and some others.
Yeah, I always liked the Bajorans when I used to watch DS9 years ago. I like their style and the way they can be advanced but still have spirituality. Mind, it's probably easier to believe in your religion when you have literal artifacts to prove it's real!
@@flinty8121 Kai Winn is the most hateable female character in all of trek and we're including one that stole Kirk's body because of sexism and the queen of a species that wants to make everyone into robots. And part of why she's so hateable is her actress does such an amazing job and the WAY she's evil is so realistic.
Definitely alot of gems in 1 and 2, but season 3 is when it gets *consistently* good. Thats not meant to be a critique btw, all Trek takes a season or two (except SNW)
Season 1 is fine, but it has too many episodes that could just as easily have been done on Next Gen (with the Enterprise visiting the aliens instead of them having to come to the station). It's the steady elaboration of the all the aspects that are unique to DS9, the situation with the Bajorans and the Cardassians, and then the SPOILER and the SPOILER, and then the slow build up to total SPOILER, that make it special.
A lot of those questions you asked about Symbiotes get answered later on Specifically, Trill have a cultural taboo that is in place to prevent symbiotes from becoming an aristocracy ala Gou’uld from Stargate. And those who break that taboo, like say…continuing a romance from a previous life are free to do so, with full knowledge that they will be that symbiote’s last host and it will never be allowed to have another, since no one will want to be joined to someone who broke the taboo. Trill society sees the symbiote moving as a death and a new birth. When a host dies and the symbiote moves, they essentially begin again, with very few ties to past lives. Dax is actually a bit of an outlier in how she keeps in contact with people she knew before. Most Trill prefer to just…cut all contact and close all accounts as it where, really starting fresh with each new host. Trill also go through *extensive* training and screening to be selected to be hosts, since the number of Symbiotes is limited. No one who would, to use one of your examples, the life insurance scam, would ever be allowed near a symbiote, much less be made a host.
I really liked this episode;early in the episode both the DS9 crew and the kidnappers seem competent, and the rest of the episode deals with a messy, interesting concept - are joined Trill responsible for previous host's crimes or not, and presents both sides, and has the episode avoid coming down on a side to let the viewer think about it. Add to that Sisko and Dax's conversations feel very real and you can feel Sisko trying desperately to help her without being able too. Re: if J. Dax is the same person as C. Dax, i think its one of those things that are really somewhere between the two, and really fowl up courts because the courts have to take action A or B dependent on which one they think is most true.
I have been meaning for awhile to thank you for manually setting the ad break to be between between the plot summary and episode analysis to keep the flow right
@@YoshiTheWise Hasn't that always been a subtext? The Federation has lofty goals and ambitions that their technology helps them achieve, but people are still people. TNG and TOS had more bad/evil/misguided admirals than genuinely good ones. I think Sisko says it best when the Maquis show up in late season 2: "The trouble is Earth. On Earth, there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well it's *easy* to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise!"
I think it's interesting that Jadzia isn't fussed with sex or romance in season 1, but we learn more about her past hosts being romantically involved or outright lecherous and Jadzia becomes very openly sexual later and even that Bashir's advances weren't as unwelcome as they appeared to be (which might be potentially problematic messaging at all). Which begs the question is the platonic ideal that joined trill are supposed to be well platonic that doesn't match with reality but Jadzia is trying to live up to? Is Jadzia originally asexual but was motivated to be more sexual by Dax, and the past memories of Curzon? Fun to think about.
I love the musings about Trill liability. Paying child support across hosts sounds like a nightmare. Or imagine the symbiote swaps hosts when the kid was young and then contacts the new host when they're older to "get to know" their lost parent.
If we're talking about Trill society it's very unlikely that Hosts or Symbiotes are lawfully held to any actions or ties of former hosts. They're very big on new hosts doing new things so that the Symbiote gets as many different experiences as possible.
@@PregnantAdamSandler I know we see glimpses of this later on in episodes like Rejoined, but the current writers of Trek seem to have no problem changing things on a whim, it would at least make for interesting storytelling to explore the intricacies of generational symbiote familial connections.
The simple solution for the trill is that legally the simbiote, host, and the combination are all lawfully distinct entities as they seem to be biologically as well.
Thankfully, later looks into Trill society answers most of these with the simple notion that upon changing hosts, the past life is left behind, it is however complicated with personal relationships often being rekindled, but all the ones we see are with non-Trill. But just because Trill society made a decision that doesn't mean everyone else will follow it, the UFP will of course do their best to abide by it, but others may well not. So it really does make it possible for the Symbiont to be the perfect killer, since Trill also are to put the symbiont before host. A schizofrenic symbiont, could appear perfectly normal, and then harbour this dark side that makes the host go doing dark deeds...
1:24 using transporters might trigger a security check or display/save their target destination. but on the other hand I also thought that about the fistfight and kidnapping... so I guess there is not a lot of sensors in a 24th century spacecorridor.
Safe landings Space and Skull dogs! Something I found interesting is the difference between DS9 Trills and the first time we see Trills in TNG. The TNG symbiote *does* over ride the host's personality in its entirety.
For legal purposes I´d assume the symbiont is not much of a legal person as it can´t survive or interact without the host and is probably closer to an unborn child in a legal way. That would leave the host as main subject of any legal things and I´d assume the legal status does not change much by the symbiont. Legally it´s the same person before and after, maybe with few exceptions, but generally the Trill remains with one life and no right to transfer any worldly possessions into the next and the memories from said life are more like something a close relative might share, while crimes...could have some effect, if discovered after the host´s death...there I´d expect some intense check up if the symbiont can be considered unfot for a new host afterwards.
The design of this week's aliens keeps reminding me of Delenn, the half human (via surgery) Minbari ambassador to Babylon 5 But with the headband composed of flesh, rather than bone.
About the romulan tech, I'd say the Federation is pretty good at snatching tech and sneaking around. Its just we have bad examples of sneaking, security and smarts in Janeway: First Blood and the Misadventures of Johnny Picard
@stephandolby Yes, but my point is that Dax knowing what it is means we had more knowledge about Romulan tech than we might let on, and that has some implications.
In a universe with replicators, losing something doesn't seem so bad when you can just "get another one" anytime. The security in star fleet might be a result of that mentality.
I do seem to recall that there's an episode coming up where a former host did commit murder, but the Trill government transferred the symbiote, and hushed the whole thing up.
This is the first episode that goes into what DS9 was GREAT at: establishing lore for existing species rather than just having a species of the week. The trill are so much more interesting because this show demonstrates how they work so well and so often. They also conveniently have a "Doctor Who" thing baked in so you could, say, replace the actor later down the line with a new one if you needed to. Not that they'd do that! Ha ha ha...
What I don’t like about this episode, and some other Dax episodes, is that she feels a bit like a passive guest in her own story. Sisko, and his feelings, felt like the greater focus. It seemed to be more about him, and a general Trill thought experiment, than Jadzia Dax herself. I suppose it is an exploration of her character, but I’d have preferred more of an inner conflict. She could still reach and act on the same conclusion, but part of her remains a young person with a desire to live, AND with a cultural obligation to protect the symbiont. I’ve felt this way about some TNG Worf episodes, too. The stories are about Worf, technically, but they felt like others got the spotlight.
Love this episode, and I love Renora, the Bajoran judge; “I intend to be here until supper, not senility”. Hard to believe she’s the same actress from TNG “The Survivors” and Liar Liar and Mrs Doubtfire. 16:50 As far Federation espionage goes, in “Unification” Starfleet had access to some sort of long range scanner that not only scanned all the way to Romulus, but was powerful enough to get a pretty clear image of Spock walking around on the surface. Then later, Data was able to find out where Senator Pardek lived! Also, I don’t think they’d really need to be familiar with the particular piece of tech to know it was Romulan, as there’s often mention of power signatures etc that are specific to particular races.
Regarding Romulan tech, I'd agree with you that she simply recognised the signs that it was Romulan but for one thing: she was able to identify the variant of it, deciding it was a type one McGuffin instead of a type two McGuffin. That's detailed knowledge not just of the underlying principles but of the specific upgrade history for a particular item.
@@Unlimited_Lives Fair enough, makes me wonder if any of the times the Enterprise-D came across Romulan ships there wasn’t a shit ton of deep tricorder scanning and maybe even some petty theft going on that we didn’t see!
Oh, there's certainly some dodgy shit that went on both ways during any encounter. I'm just wondering how far the likes of Johnny Picard would push things and risk the peace (despite all the Neutral Zone fuckery), as opposed to an Independant Secret Organisation with no official ties that definitely doesn't exist.
Tbf, I got the impression that the Federation had the technical knowhow to build a cloaking device if they wanted too but that they lacked experience given they where banned by treaty. Re: Unification, I don't remember the exact wording but I thought those scans where done by cloaked/stealth probes doing a spyplane like sweep through Romulus to try and keep an eye on them. We also see in another TNG episode the the Romulians actually got a warbird into federation space to kidnap Jordie, so it's not like the Romulians wouldn't do the same.
Another feature you could add- All the times that Bashir's enhanced genetics status should have made a difference and didn't. Bashir should have mopped the floor with these guys if he were faster and stronger than your average humanoid. (I know they didn't come up with this plot device until Season 5, and it didn't add anything to the show, in my opinion.)
Wasn't Bashir's genetic enhancements just mental abilities and hand eye coordination? He didn't get the full strength and bone rework, something the other genetically enhanced point out. Now does that mean his hand eye coordination should help him get an edge in a fight? Maybe. Was the plot still going to have Bashir get decked? Yep.
Dax could have had some connections to the Romulans in the past, I think her recognizing stuff like this is just by the memory of Dax and not something from starfleet
Potential hosts go through a very rigorous selection process before they're chosen to be given a symbiote. So it's unlikely hosts will intentionally do anything that could seriously hurt future hosts.
Bashir was doing rather well at the decking until the person he was about to deck next removed her hood. Given those gauntlets look to be rather painful, and given he went from probably one good blow away from ending the fight to almost losing Jadzia for good, that's probably a good kick up his complacency. The chat between Sisko, Kira and General Specific in Sisko's office not only shows that Sisko is willing to let Kira get involved in the conversation, but that there's a level of trust between them... and her smile steps all over Specific's smugness and lack of respect. I wonder how many other races with a connection to Cardassia also view Bajorans with such disdain?
Yeah, since the warrant is for extradition from *the Federation* , suddenly it's convenient for Sisco to say it's not Federation territory, it's Bajoran. When in episode 1, he was threatening to kick Kira off his station. Both things can be true at once, though. If Sisco told the Bajoran government that the Federation wanted them to send another representative to replace Kira, they'd listen.
It seemed DS9 may have ignored TNG? About 2 years prior no one knew the Trill were a joined race- and probably would have stayed secret if the flag ship crew were not blabbermouths. DS9 almost seems to act like the Trill were no secret over the years. And of course the Trill looked different & could temp bond with other races which we never saw again, they sort of treated that as maybe a different race within the Trill in some material.
Well Kirk and Spock stole aRomulan cloaking device. I also love the addition of the kidnappers trying to avoid the Bajoran government. Nice use of the station being a Bajoran space station instead of a federation one.
Just regarding Romulans, it is worth rememebring that like Starfleet tends to look for a sort of person so does the Romulan millitary but dialled upto 11 by the Tal-Shiar. One reason I think the later Trek is intersting is seeing them Romulans free of the Tal-Shiar.
Don't worry, real fans know that the bloody Cardie tractor beam has dog allergies, which would've made locking on to a shuttle with two space dogs a long and convoluted task. It probably involved rerouting the graviton emitters through an inverse tachyon matrix or reconfiguring the antihistamine field or something.
The only thing a new host gets are the memories and experiences. They do not get and inheritance, pensions, or liability. Joran was a psychopath, none of the other hosts were held accountable for his crimes.
Reminds me of the song, "Over the Hills and Far Away" where a man is framed for robbery but can't reveal his alibi because he was snoffing his best friend's wife that night.
Somewhere on a the station, a officer in star fleets long suffering jag core gets excited about hearing about an exciting and perhapes career defining cought case. Gos though all the effort to create an iron Clad case that will set a presdent for decides to come Only to show up long after the whole thing is over. Because the station commander like all comand level staff decided because they took half a semester of intergalactic law in the academy, that makes him and his sinor staff as qualified as an actual lawyer Degected he Crawls back to his room, drinks himself to sleep while watching the ancient earth show. Jag for the 34th time
Regarding Romulan tech: wasn't there a TOS episode where Kirk is sent to steal some Romulan tech? I hardly think they stopped there. It's likely they just got more organised.
@@joelellis7035 I was going to scoff that Starbucks doesn't sell different varieties of coffee beans or that people have always enjoyed a good ol' cup o' Joe, but then: Raktajino = Frappuccino Of course!
The joint trills are mostly staying home, but since they live several lifetimes, there certainly is a pre federation history in living memory of Trills. So who knows what was in the past and how the knowledge was obtained. Spock spent years on Romulos to rejoin the Romulans with Vulcans. Clearly, Vulcans had no problem to infiltrate the Romulan various branches of society, government, and military. But then when it comes to intelligence gathering and scientific advancement, the Star Trek verse is extremely inconsistent, esp. in pre Star Trek Origienal Series as in Start Trek Enterprise and even more so in Star Trek Discoveries.
Hello kind sir. I apologize. I tried to get into deep space nine. Watched first 5 episodes and watched your reviews. But I can't get into em. I got the same feeling when I first tried watching way back in 1993. I just couldn't get into the non exploration theme. So sadly I have canceled my membership but i will continue to subscribe. I'll be Back hopefully when this one ends since there's no choice you'll move on to one of the exploration series, unless discovery were to win, ughh what a waste of a show. Until then.
Female characters are always hit or miss on star trek I never liked Dax. Loved Kira, but Dax... In you know, whatever form. I know she may not technically be a female character, but close enough since a big part of her is female and as far as I know she identifies as female sooo... Also, the widow is data's mother. Weird cross pollination there.
