Today's Thought Experiment: If Prisoner had the option of moving to a different body for months, why didn't he do it and become incognito to the police?
Because you aren't "moving", you're copying yourself into someone. Good enough for a backup or if no other option is available but not your "Go to" option.
Ironically, Prisoner needed a vessel sufficiently full of itself. The real low point of the season is around the corner! Only getting better from here. Mostly, there's gonna be one or two stinkers later still.
Your assessment of this episode's quality is spot on. And man security guy should have been the same character as Eddington. Might have made his story slightly more impactful later. But we'll get there eventually.
I also don't like how this guy just disappeared from the show with no explanation. Just like the original Chief Engineer on TNG. Dude just disappeared one day and suddenly Geordi was promoted off screen and between seasons. Given the TOS playbook, one would think they would have figured the Engineer would play a key role and pick an actor that was more than just an extra with a couple lines in a couple episodes.
@@mgelliott1 True on the chief engineer for TNG. That was a strange one. The security guy here was a shame because of the Eddington story they'd do later. Might have held more weight if he was a recurring character from season 1.
@@reaverofjillsandwiches Agreed. But don't get me started on Eddington. I could write a book on how Sisko treated his friend Cal (a higher ranking officer vs. Eddington) who also turned to to be Maquis vs Eddington. Sisko even let Cal go at the end of the episode. But with Eddington it turned into a Moby Dick situation. This has always been my issue with the writers, they couldn't decide how bad they were. Tuvak is undercover trying to capture them, but 2 episodes later Chakotay is now first officer? B'Lanna is in charge of the warp engine? On Lower Decks he's now a captain vs. being in prison? I get folks died, we need help, we can't keep 'em in the brig for 70 years. I don't get command positions. Can you imagine bin Laden 2nd in command of some aircraft carrier because it was lost at sea!!
The shuttle vanishing with a flashing light and the TARDIS Dematerialization sound was awesome. I love it. I guess the Time Lords don't want Space Dog messing around with time
I know you've said that the overlapping music at the start was an accident, but I'm choosing to headcanon that it was actually a deliberate choice to represent in music what it would be like to have two minds operatong in the same body simultaneously.
I'm surprised the Voyager episode Warlord never got a mention. It's basically the same story but Kes gets possessed, and her performance was miles better.
Chronologically speaking, TNG did the techno-possession first in The Schizoid Man when the dying Dr. Ira Graves overwrites Data with a copy of his personality. It really was old hat by the time Voyager got around to Warlord (not to mention when they did it again a few seasons later in Warhead, the one where a sentient torpedo takes over the Doctor).
Siddig trying to throw his voice as he introduces himself as "RAY-OHHHH VAN'TIK-HA!" lives rent free in my head. It's a perfectly serviceable paint-by-numbers Trek episode, though there's nothing particularly DS9 about it either. Still, it's enjoyable to watch the characters work their way through the mystery... Even if it feels like you're watching an old TNG script they dusted off in a hurry. This could have been a Geordi episode.
God I really forget how annoying Bashir was in season 1 I mean, it shows growth that he becomes the kind of guy who later on admits to his own ego and failings and is willing to spend a year trying to cure people who dont want him around…but its still a pain getting there
I kind of like Bashir being an insufferable prick in the early episodes. I find some of the scenes where O'Brien and Kira (among others) don't even try and hide their disdain for him rather amusing. And it gives him somewhere to change and grow over the series.
Even after watching this episode 5 times at least, and fully knowing it was Bashir, I still didn't think it sounded like Bashir. Maybe I have a below average ability to clock voices.
Predictable as a sunrise, this episode. I've never seen it, but I knew what the "twist" was going to be just as soon as I saw the image of the prisoner grabbing Bashir's neck.
5:32 Odo loves to claim he is all about justice, but unless he really believes he is the only being in the universe that can dispense actual justice, he sure does let he ego get in his way a lot.
I mean when your the only being you know of that can turn into a can opener or a T Rex i guess your opinion of yourself can get inflated. Odo actually has a bit of a humbling later on, but thats spoilers.
What he desires is not justice, but order. For things to stick to his orderly status quo, and that any threat to that status quo must be savagely curtailed.
Vantika/Prisoner might have just wanted to go back into his own species after he was done. I find it hard to believe that he'd be okay with changing species to something he didn't even have a chance to select and then just staying there forever. Plus if this shipment was meant to treat thousands (likely) then Prisoner probably had a buyer set up for most of it and was only keeping what he needed for himself. Why back out of the deal just because you don't need your share anymore? The money still makes it worth it. I'm glad you did research and mentioned the voice thing, I really feel for Siddig because the voice he did do must have been fine enough for the director to let him keep it the whole way through, so changing it all afterwards must have felt so irritating - and to this day he gets shit for the delivery because he had to match the existing lip movements but use his own voice.
Re: Prisoner - he didn't have to stay in Bashir though, that's the thing. By remaining incognito and ignoring the heist, he could have recovered all his previous research data from Dax to switch to any body he wanted. Staying as Bashir and saying he was interested in visiting their planet for medical research is also an excellent pass straight back home if that's what he wanted. Nabbing the freighter is a short-term gain, and one that burns his cover in the process. And the heat he gains from that burning is substantial as that was a Federation ship. Being hunted by his own people is one thing, but making an enemy of one of the areas major powers is quite another. Stick all of that together and it's the least logical choice for his longevity, which we're told throughout is his primary motivation. For that reason I found it unsatisfying, though I'd be the first to admit I massively overthink this stuff. As to the voice thing, I'd love to hear the original audio track to that and see how it went. As you say, the people there on the day thought it was fine so I'm most curious why a director (who'd already worked on 5 TNG and 3 DS9 episodes by this point) passed it and the showrunners didn't.
@@Unlimited_Lives I do agree that Prisoner's onscreen motivations left a lot to be desired, but I suppose I like to fill in the gaps for my own enjoyment. It's possible that he wasn't as big of a deal as he seemed, more like a successful middle man than a kingpin (after all, he was performing the heist himself with hired goons, not outsourcing the whole thing which would have been safer). Maybe he didn't have a choice in going through with it because whoever he was working for would have killed him if he lost the shipment, but that sort of thing should have been explored. Season one was always a bit choppy as they found their feet and this episode is a perfect example of that. I'm really enjoying your series and have recommended it to a few friends. Thank you for making it, I'm about to watch the next episode now.
If prisoner has the unique knowledge and ability to build tools and clone/transfer consciousness, why hasn't he gone legit? It's like creating an infinite range EV car and using it as a getaway car for a bank robbery.
Funnily enough I think the Voyager episode, "Warlord," did the possession thing so much better. You got a better feel for the fight between personalities and honestly, seeing Kes get away from Neelix was satisfying. This felt like a script idea they had laying about and needed something to turn in tomorrow.
A malfunctioning air lock accident flushed his mince into space. Reports of two dog shaped creatures seen in the area are unconfirmed at this time.....Wood!
If Quark were being watched by security because of the shipment, presumably even before Brain Transference Entity arrived at DS9, then how did the assault on Quark by BTE/Julian go unnoticed?
I wondered at first if keeper was actually prisoner and prisoner was keeper and unable to deny it by virtue of being dead. But I think that would have been a more interesting story.
That *would* have been more interesting. Have the whole thought transference thing as a red herring. It's such a well known trope that having it be complete bollocks would be a far more entertaining twist.
The plot and core performances here were unremarkable, but there were some good character moments and theme-establishing events. Starfleet Security Guy showed up with dickhead swagger energy that alienated everyone he was supposed to be working with. Later he demonstrated both investigatory savvy and technical acumen, making a pivotal contribution that kept the baddie from escaping. This shows how Starfleet is capable, and basically earnest in their good intentions about being here, but that they tend to be blunt and tactless about the finer points like "actually getting along with the people you're helping". This theme will come up quite a few more times. Similarly, Odo bristles at having his authority challenged, but is willing to play ball once a sensible framework is established. These behaviors are very Odo of him, and they're also the kind of thing that will come up again.
As the nitpicker's guide wants to make ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU KNOW bashir said that tricorders were "very acurate with alive people not so good with dead people" and use tricorders to declare lots of people dead
I'd definitely seen this one before, but I must have managed to completely blot it from my mind - I remember more about "The Storyteller" or "Move Along Home" than this, and they're pretty terrible. Not good enough to be worth remembering and not bad enough that I wasn't able to forget it!
A decent though unremarkable episode. Siddig's acting as 'bad guy inside Bashir' is super wooden and could have done with some sort of redo. Edit: just heard your comments re Siddig only getting the script the day before - that certainly explains why Siddig did a poor job!
12:36 Question: why does she have a gun when it’s station policy that weapons be removed from non station security personnel and Star Fleet? Do we just allow important enough guests to go around armed then, but not the civilians? Like that security check should have screened her at the very least and stopped it.
That policy is so no **unauthorized** people are carrying weapons. But she’s legitimate law enforcement personnel who was (supposedly) taking custody of a dangerous prisoner. She was completely within her right to being armed during the transfer.
@@Unlimited_Lives You could redo it if it were a significant problem. "Many a True Nerd" re-uploaded a video just this past week, because he repeated 2 words, so he cut 1 second from it. Today, "Certifiable Ingame" re-uploaded one on Best Federation Starships, because there some oddly long pauses of nothing between clips of the Constitution class footage. So I'm not saying you should, but you would be in good company if you decided to. Either way, we appreciate the commentary.
That was me neglecting to mute an audio track in the editor after I'd used it to repair a different error on the first upload. Basically I done fucked it.
Nice remix! Edit I thought id have more to say at the end, and I am starting to hate Bashir. This episode sucked, but the accidental remix and space dog made my weekend, so thanks man. Making a fun episode with shit material is the real talent.
@@Rorikon215 it'd be fascinating to start all the way back with Hartnell, but as I understand it, much of the early episodes prior to Eccleston have been lost to time, or rather the BBC re-writing over the magnetic tapes because they were expensive.
That's overstating it a little. Maybe 30% of the first two doctors stuff from 1963-1969 is missing. After that, for doctors 3-8, virtually everything still exists. And if you still wanted to watch from the start, a very high percentage of William Hartnell's first two seasons survived. And that's before you get into the audio recordings and animated reconstructions.
I certainly never expected it remotely soon, if ever. For one thing I still want to hear your views on Enterprise's Decontamination Room and Geordi the Sexual Predator. I was just wondering how it *could* be done. Some Doctors would be easier than others. McCoy was only in 12 serials. McGann one TV movie. Eccleston 13 episodes.
I could never learn to love DS9. I just can't get over the fact that it's a blatant rip-off of Babylon 5. The occasional episode is OK, like when a bunch of DS9ers went to DS8 for spare parts and O'Brien had that fetch list with "must have", "could do with" and "would be nice." 😀
Rip off, you say. Except DS9 was conceived of and began filming FIRST, and the only reason B5 started airing first was because they rushed its production out purposely to beat Paramount. But DS9 will always be the superior show, even despite a few bad episodes in the beginning. By shear quality of acting and and writing. The WORST DS9 episode is still better then the Best B5 episode.
@@akmi1931 J Michael Straczynski pitched Babylon 5 to Paramount who turned it down. The similarities are too obvious to ignore. (1) A space station next to a wormhole. (2) The angry/sarcastic angry military babe. (3) The police officer who's seen it all before. (4) The sleazy bar where deals get done. (5) The religious order. Paramount cherry-picked the bits they fancied and pretended they were not interested. Filming or airing FIRST is of no concern. J Michael Straczynski had the idea FIRST.
@@akmi1931 > The WORST DS9 episode is still better then the Best B5 episode. Come on... you're allowed to have your favourite, but with a statement like that you're just embarrassing yourself, and making it absolutely clear you don't have judgement worth listening to on this subject.
As the B5 creator said at the time...." You can like more than one flavor of ice cream" Personally I enjoyed both, and while I feel there were too many similaritys between the shows to be a coincidence, each show carved its own path in the end.
