Defender, Grenadier, LC300, Patrol test - comments on comments! 

For those wondering about Discovery vs other cars - check this and other Hill of Truth videos ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7sAquWS_yv0.html

People often mistake the word reliability for capability. They are often disappointed when finding out the difference.

Well Robert I am particularly enjoying this series. I think I completely agree with your overall outlook. The Wrangler and the Jimney are not touring vehicles, and the LC300 is far superior to the 76 for touring. There was no need of two Toyotas in the mix. You are a good example of how RU-vid has elevated automotive journalism. Magazines just couldn't supply this level of objectivity and relevant truth.

First thanks for the great detail. I would like to suggest unplugging 1 wheels speed sensor from each of the vehicles. Then proceed with the shootout on the same obstacle. I have fixed 2 vehicles with damaged wheel speed sensors like this after sticks ripped them off doing a creek crossing after big rains, so much debris. It would be interesting to see which systems are still functioning in this temporary scenario. Without naming brands because I am not into the brand bashing type of thing. One of the two vehicles I repaired would not even let you select 4lo. Then even after repair and clearing the fault you had to drive a certain amount of distance before cycling the engine again did the ecu let code clear in memory and 4lo engage again. After this enlightening experience I always carry 2 meters of wire, some connectors, heatshrink, soldiering iron, soldier, and lighter Lol. Much respect.

I still don't understand why anyone would have angst with referring crass axle locks or cross locks as such. You're 100% on the money.

As someone whose family was stranded in a remote location by a Discovery 4's stuck automatic shifter dial due to the failure of an electronic component, I concur that Land Rover's electronics are fantastic. When they work.

I really appreciate your approach, it’s easy to get emotional about vehicles and the mythology of certain vehicles. I’ve had a number Wranglers and CJ’s, and I totally agree with you about comfort and payload, the older Jeeps were tiny, current Wranglers still not enough room. I’ve never owned a 70 series, but I have owned a 90’s Defender 110, and a 100 series LC. By far the 100 series was my favorite. In the US it only had the optional rear locker, no front locker, but still capable. Looking forward to part 2.

As always, informative and educational, without a hint of bias. Rant free as well!

Best 4wd teacher on YT. Keep on trucking brother.

of those 4 i really like the ineos with those steel wheels and the old school defender look

Would love to see a comparison older touring vehicles common in the used market such as gen3/4 Pajero, lc100/200, GU Patrol etc

Land Rover tried to make offroading simpler for novices, but ended up making it more complex, and made the defender less capable than it would be with traditional lockers. I would much rather teach a beginner how to use manual lockers in an analogue vehicle that doesn't have ABS, ESC, or TC, or where those can all easily be turned off permanently.

I like the sly mention of cross axle differential lockers . Diff lockers 😂

very educational. love the breakdown of the „skills“ of the respective cars. looking forward to the next part

Excited for the rest of the series thank you very informative. Hopefully you can address more why LC 300 GR sport doesn't have adjustable suspension like the LX 600. Surely that should be very useful off road in terms of ground clearance.

Love to hear your comments on the GWM Tank 300

Brilliant test and videos allowing me to understand how the 4x4 technically works. Thank you!

Thank you so much for your efforts here - much appreciated content. Agree 100 % on your vehicle selection - Wrangler/Jimny are a different kind of off roaders.

@2:06 I know this place! I did my advance 4wd course with 4WD Victoria. Nice area for practicing skills and setups. (Lerderderg, VIC)

Terrific video. If I had the coin a Grenadier would be in my drive. Not that I tour. But for Tassie I think one would be ideal.

Thanks for this. I've subscribed on the strength of the first video, and I'm looking forward to more.

GREAT TESTS. Thank you 🙏🏼

It seems to me that a live axle is the way to go. It's simpler and so more reliable. To me, if I'm in the middle of nowhere, reliability is paramount, so I'd go for Toyota.

Thanks for all the great videos. Can you do a Tank 300 test drive?

Great info Robert

Agree with most of your points, although I'm not sure I'd really call the Jimny thirsty. Did 100 miles in mine yesterday (modded, not standard) and got 38.6mpg. I'd doubt any of the vehicles in your test would match that. I agree the tank is small, but that isn't really the same thing.

Great work on this series! Just an fyi, the defender if equipped with terrain response 2 has a custom off-road mode that allows you to enable and disable the rear locker on command with a button on the infotainment screen.

Loved your sway control video of 2 years ago. By chance do you have a video of towing up and down steep grades without loosing your brakes altogether? Thanks

Sorry if it's been asked and answered - didn't go through all 141 comments (!). I thought the basic model of Grenadier came with a central diff locker. Doesn't that count as a "locker"? Also, did you hear from Ineos or the Grenadier owner why the lockers on the one you tested failed? Great content here, thanks!

Hi Robert, For experienced off road drivers, what is your opinion of having a vehicle with selectable lockers front and rear but with the ability of running only the front locker and not the rear? I find in certain terrain it is superior allowing me to turn sharper due to the rear not engaged and pushing the vehicle. In the world of lockers, the rear locker accounts for the majority of the "push" you get when engaged compared to the front locker....at least that is my experience. I've often wondered what a vehicle with Terrain Response would be like with a Truetrac or Torsen type locker front and rear. My H1 is magical with its Torsens but it does require driver input engaging the brakes to get the Torsens to essentially "lock up". With an excellent traction control system like the Land Rover or Toyota has, I would think this would be essentially the ultimate setup for overlanding for 98% of us with the traction control providing the braking required for the helical differential to "lock up" on and off as needed. I read a white paper on the Terrain Response program and IIRC essentially even if you pick the wrong program (setting) the computer will revert back what it thinks it needs to do. Not sure I like that aspect of it but will say that on my L322 with the factory rear locker it is about as seamless as you could want. I would think the latest generation of Defenders may have an even better Rerrain Response response compared to what I have experienced. Cheers.

Torsen diff. Please let me know why 4X4 not using these as rear locker. With traction control stoping the spinning wheel of off the ground doesn’t that make it perfect?

It would be interesting to see the difference (if there are really any significance) between a standard lc300 and the gr sport when it comes to e-kdss vs regular in the normal lc300. And for future it would be good if you can compare the capabilities of the upcoming LC250 and GX550 Overtrail. That will also be a non e-kdss (but with swaybar disconnect switch for the front) and e-kdss in the GX550.

What I find astonishing is that you can get a Land Rover that's significantly cheaper than a Toyota.

Will there be a comparison between these vehicles looking at long range touring?

Can you change the TR in the LR on the go without getting stuck when you discover a handicap of your setting? I have a 110 D250D and yet I’m happy on the road since 4k km.

Jeep Gladiator Rubicon as a touring vehicle?

All of these vehicles have complex electronics, so they are all on a similar level for reliability.

I don't know if you see the overlanding people do in 4-door Wrangler rubicon's Towing 3,000-lb in loading it down with another thousand or more including a whole kitchen and then they go rock crawling with it you might see something different other than just some statistics on a factory website. You can ask all the guys who drive their Jeep from the East Coast all the way to Moab down the highway and then do all of Moab and then do the whole Rubicon Trail towing a camper trailer

Hi appreciate all the hard work you do and your great videos but it does frustrate me you keep calling them cross axle lockers! They’ve always been known as diff locks! You also have pozzy drive diff, also a different clutch pack options but never a cross axle locker. In the centre, you have a central diff lock, 4x2 to 4x4 system and a lockable clutch pack etc. I understand you’re trying to make it easy for the non-technical people to understand, but it doesn’t help if they go into a local business and start talking about cross axle lockers etc, they gonna be laughed out of the place or salt, something they weren’t asking for because they didn’t understand what they were talking about. As a qualified motorcycle engineer with 30+ years of experience, I do understand about the average person and not understanding things, I sold Big rubber bands that came on some new motorcycle packaging as power bands for the school kids motorcycles we sell them for a dollar apiece gave a discount of $.50 and had a laugh for days. As far as I’ve ever done, misleading Customer information. I would love to purchase a new Toyota 78 series but unfortunately New Zealand it’s sounding like we only getting the automatic full model and if I’m upgrading for my Suzuki Jimny I definitely need to move to 6 cylinder or V8. So probably gonna order myself a Ineos Grenadier because of the bigger engine, much more efficient, lockable in manual mode, automatic, insufficient space to sleep in the back. I learnt years ago doesn’t matter what your spaces like to sleep in as long as you’re dry and cool, used to sleep in coach touring lockers at night for six months of the year.

Why GU's and 80's are so sought after. IFS is a weak point.

Grenadier owners: “you can’t beat lockers much more reliable than electronics “ 👀

Oh boy you really got no clue 😂

I don't think it's fair to exclude the 70 series. It is hugely popular for expedition use. It may take some work to refine their rough edges but that shouldn't exclude them. What they do have is reliability, which is why you can take a 40 year old one and sink a little bit of money into it and get a reliable vehicle. With all the stories about brand new Defenders breaking down, reliability should be up there at the top of the list of things to consider, and you have to wonder if anyone will be using a 10 year old Defender 10 years from now. 80 separate ECU's is pretty concerning IMO.

You can see the butthurt comments 😅

Only one of these becomes an untowable brick that needs an internet connection to fix when you open the door too many times.

"A 70 series is not a good four wheel drive" - this guy, 2023

Thanks for your informative reviews. I have gone off Toyota. The Grenadier has been attracting my attention. I'm not too keen on being an early adopter. You mentioned that the lockers failed to engage? Mmm electric engagement? I expect that Air Lockers would be more reliable?

Mmmm So the faulty Toyota V6 Diesel will have used 1.6L of oil as per usual, The Patrol is still using 1980 Tech CD player, !