Drives me nuts they keep calling the closet his “small room” .. he died in a closet naked, and emaciated on a tarp. I hope the jury can have some PTSD counseling after this. God rest Timothy’s soul.
He did a good job defending his monster the best he could imo. Sometimes the defense is only there to make sure their punishment matches the crime. He just went in like well maybe I can just confuse the jury a lil bit 😂
Hannah Payne's lawyer had the same problem - a winless case of hideous proportion, with a hugely unsypathetic client. He just tossed a huge word salad, and tried to toss his brother under the bus.
I'll go a step further. The case could be made that with PTSD, emotionally charged situations would cause a blackout. BUT When she was on the stand, she could remember what he'd done wrong, what Paul was doing, all the circumstances surrounding what happen, but not WHAT SHE DID. That's not a PTSD blackout. That's just evil.
Yea... no. Terrible argument. The mom is fully to blame here, those two boys were victims of one bad mom. The attorney is trying to blame the eldest son when she was the puppet master. There is absolutely no reason to give an ice bath to your child, not notice that he is literally skin and bones, and then claim "Ignorance". Just sickening.
It’s the only defense he has to offer. If he didn’t give a good closing, she could appeal. Very difficult for this lawyer. I’m sure he’s sick to his stomach too.
It’s a very weak argument. But, he’s gotta do his job. The argument of ‘text messaging doesn’t show the whole picture’ can certainly be true in some instances… not in this one. The text messages in this case are damning. Don’t know you, or if you have kids, but ours is 24 and lives 3 hours away from us. I STILL ask him, “did you eat enough veggies today? How about fruit? Are you eating fruit every day?” This woman is a monster. R.I.P. Timothy ❤
@@dianetoshferrazzano2685 yeah there's no way she didn't understand the context of the the text messages because she was busy at work. She was also at home after work and saw his condition.
I agree. I'd say no way can I defend someone who does this. But we are guaranteed a defense and our given our day in court, according to our Constitutional rights. But what she did is difficult for the mind to understand. Bless him for providing her a defense. But, I hope she spends the rest of her days in a cell, just sad she doesn't get ice baths, bread with hot sauce, and the physical torture she gave her son. Sometimes, I miss the "eye for an eye" punishment. This was painful to watch, I can only imagine what Tim went through. He needed a savior. He needed a hero. No one was there to rescue him, no one there to take him out of his prison. So, I hope she lives the rest of her days in prison, and I hope it is as unpleasant as the prison Tim was in.
She should have been forced to be in court to listen to all the things she did to that poor boy. She took the easy way out. She didn't want to hear what she did but had no problem doing them.
I agree and can't wait until sentencing because they will make her be there. It is so sad that nobody stood up to protect that poor child, but I hope there are many people who come and speak up during sentencing, so she has to sit there and listen to them. She had the ability to have a wonderful life and career but she through it all way because she hated her own child and instead of giving him to someone else to raise, she decided to torture him until he died. She is pure evil and should never be free again.
Agree. We all know she was faking her so called medical issue. I believe she didn't want to be there bc her control freak self wanted to have control over one last thing n they let her have her way. Smh. Idk the rules on this, idk if the decision to excuse her was ultimately up to the judge but if it was his decision I think it was a poor one . I don't like him for that. She forced her son to do horrific things ..he didn't get a choice or leniency or compassion for his medical conditions or special needs therefore neither should she n her a** should've been forced to be there!
His closing argument was all over the place and so confusing! Her fate was sealed the moment she decided to torture and starve her own son to death!!!! Blaming her older son for everything is absolute bull!!! She knew exactly what she was doing. She was methodical and obsessed with making her son suffer..it ruled her life. And the lawyer saying "she took this boy in"???? SHE GAVE BIRTH TO HIM!!! WTF...yes maybe she lost custody, but still....IT WAS HER SON!!!!! She is a sick sick evil monster and absolutely deserves everything the law throws at her!!!
omg i TOTALLY agree...her torture tactics are bordering on war time techniques WTF! and forcing her older son to do dirty work as well! Look how ANGRY she was during cross...angry, defiant, justified, resentful, arrogant and mean as a snake!
It definitely isn't easy. It truly takes a lot of focus a strong belief in the law, and overcoming one's personal feelings in order to do this job. I give them a lot of credit, too. Especially when they really try to make passionate argument on behalf of their client, who is totally indefensible.
I agree with you. In his heart he don't want to do it probably but he's got a job to do. That's why half of it he barely talked about her and talked about Paul
yes, seeing that actual spoken words have become passe', absolutely. This, is communications path now so gone girl. what I find eerie is her style. She reminds me of a guard at Auschwitz or something and the boy is just " following Orders? feel for him but hes 19 man and a quick call to cops or relatives and this was over; but, in an odd way, he may have felt he needed to be there, in a warped sense as he could end her if needed. is there any backstory on her upbrimging as in my estimation she had means to become a lawyer so Im curious as to her upbringing, not as an excuse ever, but just for patterns and baseline temeperament of her as a youth.
Although Timothy is the main victim here, paul is also a victim of this woman. He must still pay for his crime because he could have refused her commands or at least tried to help Timothy when she was not around. I think he too has some mental health issues and was not strong enough to stand up against her so he is also a victim. Let's hope she spends the rest of her days living in fear of what her fellow inmates will do to her so that she experiences the fear Timothy felt at her hand before he died.
I agree with you regarding Paul. Although a difficult one, i for one, am unsure as to what i think his punishment regarding a prison term, should be as i also see a victim albeit in massively different terms to Timothy. What i do see, what is glaringly obvious is what a controlling, evil, calculated and manipulative shanda is.
He tried. He fed Timothy eggs when she wasn't home. But he was so scared of her that he had to sneak the eggs to Timothy, even though it was already too late. . He was probably afraid she would starve him and toss him in the closet too. Poor kids.
@@karincampbell9289Well maybe, but he complied with her orders just like most of the Nazis did under Hitler. He complied even when she was at work and could have fibbed instead. Very troubling case 😢
This is one of those attorneys who really has nothing else he can say to defend his indefensible client. He seems like a nice guy & a good lawyer, all things considered. The prosecutor was brilliant, though.
None of us have access to all the information he would’ve had access to, so it’s hard to judge too harshly, but his theory of defense is just so muddled. Clear example of “throw whatever at the wall and see what sticks“, because the facts and evidence of the case are so clear and damning. Seems like a nice guy and he got stuck with the short straw on this case
@@Grawlix_Jungle it truly is sad because he is a good defense attorney.. having to be appointed to a monster like her.. Ughhh 😩 although I think sometimes our justice system is broken.. it sickens me to the core seeing millions wasted on garbage like her... It should have NEVER gone to trial.. too much evidence against her. The families.. jurors and public having to relive this is horrible. I can't look at her face !😡😤🤬
It's a tough thing because in difficult, highly publicized cases like this, where the defendant has done something heinous, there's often a knee-jerk emotional impulse to assail the defense attorney as though they are complicit in their client's crimes. But one has to remember that they have a sworn obligation to offer the best possible defense of their client before the court, and in fact that should be the benchmark that the prosecution must overcome in order to commit someone to prison. The more robust the defense, the sturdier the conviction@@pla5730
This attorney is sealing her fate!! Paul is CLEARLY mentally delayed and CLEARLY afraid of his mother/monster. Blaming Paul is DISGUSTING. I hope she has nothing less than the life she has earned & the life she deserves!!!
He had to find an angle to create doubt although he failed miserably he really had no other option. They shopped to get a doctor who would corroborate her claim of PTSD and disassociative disorder but everyone turned them down.
He defended them both, as good as he could, to bring it down to Manslaughter. That's what a lawyers job is, ya brick head! This is why you will never make more of yourself than a fast food server or a Walmart worker!
I know this is a hard case to defend- it could not be more obvious that she is guilty, and a psychopath- but this is a very weak argument. The evidence is way beyond just the texts. She could and would still be prosecuted even without the texts, because the physical evidence of him having starved to death while the food was locked up speaks for itself, not to mention we have Paul's whole testimony. Even just coaching her on how to pretend to feel remorse would have been more effective.
I thought the same. I can imagine a scenario where a lawyer is so disgusted and apalled with his own clients cruel and unusual psychopathy that it might remove any motivation to try and school them into acting like redeemable human beings. He may have tried, we´ll never know..
@@jessieessex You may be right, I`m unable to distinguish between psychopathy/sociopathy in actual people. Shes bad at feigning empathy but she also probably has something like autism going on. Lawyers wont tell their clients to lie, but they can and do hint at what might be needed to get the best outcome.
What I heard- text are just a small snapshot not the whole picture. A lot of real conversations happen face to face. So imagine the horrific things they came up with when they had more time. Texts are taken out of context so bread and hot sauce probably meant Pizza Hut.
I don't think he realizes this is running his reputation as a lawyer to come in here and think that he can Gaslight us into thinking that our memory is that bad😂
This shouldn’t ruin his reputation as an attorney. She is entitled to a defense and I bet a million dollars he is ready to be done with his case. His arguments absolutely sound ridiculous but he has nothing to work with and he knows it. I bet he struggled to come up with misrepresentation of texts being read. He’s done a good job defending her and that’s what we want. No appeals for a new trial isn’t going to happen. Ineffective counsel hopefully won’t win an appeal.
One misunderstood text is one thing, this was hundreds of texts. Please don't try pulling the wool over our eyes! This woman knew exactly what she was doing. She was bent and focused on hurting that child. Her "I don't recall" bs was just sickening! She should pray that she isn't fed bread with hot sauce 3 times a day in prison. What with her delicate stomach!! Paul needs punishment too!!
It is so sad that this monster would be willing to let her older child take the wrap of the murder of her younger child to save herself is such a disgrace. LIFE
Maybe he should pick a different strategy? Paul is evidently mentally and physically abused and terrified of his mother. This lawyer is disgusting! Paul not so smart, but your client is borderline genius!
He's just doing his job... They can't all just hand pick who they defend. Regardless of the crime people get a lawyer sometimes appointed by the judge without the option to quit or they face consequences too. Sometimes lawyers hate who they defend lol. So don't fault this guy. He wasn't the one being cruel.
We can’t blame this defense attorney. He works for the state and he’s forced to do this. His job was insanely hard in this case. He did a good enough job that she can’t appeal saying she had shit counsel
She panicked and worried after he died because she knew she murdered him and couldn't lie it away. She didn't care about him. She's a sadist. The brother was brainwashed by an adult. She bares the responsibility of the crime. I hope she gets the child murderer treatment in prison. She's disgusting. This lawyer is hilarious.
😮😮 THIS should have NEVER went to trial!! Wayyyy too much evidence against her! But it just goes on to show how much of a sociopathic narcissist THIS monster truly is... She not only starved and abused her son in the worst way possible but she put families, jurors, the judicial system and the public to re-live THIS horrifying experience all over again! 😇🙏🏼 Sweet Timothy... You can rest in God's arms now that justice was served... You can rest peacefully now with endless hugs and love and NEVER feel hunger again.🩵🩵🩵
I honestly can't understand why she went to trial, unless they offered her nothing and wanted to go to trial just to drive it home. But even then, plead guilty. Own up to what you did, ffs
Memories stored in the brain, to recall them? To phone Memories? Bad argument! Doesn't tell the whole story? but the Son did and the autopsy did as well!
Yeah because we use to store solid memories. Then cellular things made us write things out. Everyone knows you’re three times more likely to remember something if you don’t think it then rethink as you document it.
What terrible defense arguments. Just because she was living under tough circumstances doesn’t mean she could torture and starve her special needs son to death.
This attorney is doing his job! I bet he hates the words coming out of his mouth right now and can’t wait to be done. Imagine trying to come up with this stuff for a closing argument. He is giving the performance of his life to insure her fate. ❤ defense attorneys aren’t the bad guys unless they don’t do their job. I see no appeal for ineffective counsel in this case.
@@Crazy_-DoG-_Lady-- the defense attorney actually made a statement after the verdict to the press. It was very respectful and professional. He talked about how this case will be with him forever basically. Obviously, he can’t say I wanted her prison.
it was a great interview with court tv tonight i kind of feel bad for the guy.. he is just as sick about this case as any of us are but he had a job to do, i thought it was very telling how he really felt about it. said justice was served. i know they get a bad rap even though they have to do what they have to do even if we dont like that they get to hace a defense especialy in cases like this where the evidence is so overwhelming I learned a lot from watching the Prosecutor and the main police guy i need to remember his name the one that brought this case to get justice for Timothy he was the bald gentleman who had to read those text mess out with that other lady. Very eye opening interviews and also learend who was in the courtroom to rep her side or at least it seems like her side and found out who is rasing G@@bethanywhite877
I saw him on CourtTV. This case will stay with him the rest of his life. He’s seen those’s horrible pictures of Timothy. Imo, he was hoping, his monster client, would ask to testify. He knew the prosecutor WOULD destroy her on stand!
Already four minutes in and I still don't understand what he's blabbering about. Cell phones and remembering things? What? 🙄🤦🏽♀️ I mean what could he really say to defend this monster. But it just seems like he's making up things on the fly. There really is no defense, she's guilty. Just let her go to jail already. And be done with it this is embarrassing.
I’m thankful he is doing his job defending her. We don’t need any new trials on this case. She will never win an appeal. I can imagine this guy can’t wait for this case to be over. I’m sure him talking about misinterpreting text messages was all he could come up with.
In order to convict criminals the constitution requires the right to a complete defense. Without defense attorneys you could not prosecute criminals. I’m not sure why so many people don’t understand that.
No matter the crime your attorney has to defend you. Who would you want for an attorney? One to throw you to the wolves or put up a fight for you? Don't even think it will never happen to you. His next client could be innocent.
I know he really has no choice but to defend her. But listening to the bullshit coming out of his mouth pisses me off so much. It’s plain as day what she did, and what she had Paul do. She clearly did hate him, because she did in fact do what he’s saying. In the end she didn’t want him to die because she didn’t want to have to clean up her mess. She was scared because she knew everything they did was wrong. Bullshit to say they were clueless.
She did say how angry she was with Paul for not doing what was told in msgs!! And this attorney had the audacity to try and throw trial due to subject matter of jurisdiction and that no evidence she did anything wrong it was all Paul's doing and dismiss the case? This is beyond me!! 😤🤢😡🤮🤮
Horrible closing, but how can defend this horrible woman. Impossible. She knew exactly what she was doing to this child. Her memory loss is a joke. Just stop.
This attorney was interviewed on Court TV. He said this is the most difficult case with the worse facts he has ever had and his job was to defend her and let the court and prosecutor do their jobs too. I noticed his demeanor when she would try to whisper to him during the trial. Imagine defending a lawyer who is constantly talking about her bar exam score.
This defense attorney did a fantastic job in my opinion with a case that had an overwhelming amount of evidence against his client and what he did worked the jury took his advice and found her guilty of felony murder (aka manslaughter)
Let’s see how this lawyer spins this monster into an innocent “bystander.” She’s so evil she can’t stand to be there to hear the truth about her horrific actions.
I've watched every second of this trial and that's why there's a clear difference between a lawyer and an attorney. And that's why we pronounce lawyer as liar..... There's no justification for wtf Shanda and Paul did. Rot in prison and rest in paradise Timothy.
There isn't any way her defense lawyer can spin this. He knows, and the jury knows she is guilty! He needs to just sit down and not say anything. He's just wasting the courts time.
I know someone has to but defending someone like this is pathetic. How he can get up there and represent this evil woman is disgusting. This won’t take long, verdict wise.
@@Tarotmoon2360 ya no shit.. hence the first 5 words in my comment. Not sure I could do it even if I was a defense attorney. The money is good but this stuff is really evil.
Lol not laughing at this case but I instantly thought of a Futurama court episode of the jury walking out of jury selection walking back in and giving a verdict of guilty
Shame on the defense, blaming a kid (Paul) mentally delayed due to the mother’s control and fear to her and lack of education … he feels more remorse than his mother and recognizes what he had done was cruel.
The major reason she has said she doesn’t remember is because she wasn’t allowed to claim disassociation from a disorder she believes she has. It was agreed she could only say how she feels or how diff Scenarios made her body feel.. but not throw disassociation as a reason. I noticed when jury came back she attached it to PTSD… “I don’t remember because of PTSD”. She was geared up for a diminished responsibility defence and had no defence to fall back on because it wasn’t on the table.
Everyone's saying how terrible and rambling the defence attorney's closing statements are. As a cognitive psychologist who knows a lot about memory, I can tell you that his argument about it is a very good one but it isn't one that the jury and public will accept or understand. So if I were on that jury how would I vote? I'm not sure but probably murder 1 despite the fact that the mother was perhaps not fully cognisant of what she was doing. Was a psych evaluation done on her? (I haven't watched all the videos of the trial.)
All 3 key people here ie: Judge Kacel, the DA and the defense attorney for the monster.....all 3 are extremely professional and did excellent at their jobs. Ive never seen these 3 key ppl in any case , esp a case so horrendous as this, who all did amazing and such professionalism presenting each side and the judges fairness and impartialism.
What a load of hogwash. How you could defend a monster like that is beyond comprehension. Pretending texts don't tell a story. After he's done blaming Paul, it wouldn't surprise me if he starts blaming the special needs child for his own torture and death. 😠
If he doesn’t defend her she can’t be criminally charged or convicted of her crime. The constitution requires a rigorous defense. Without defense attorneys you couldn’t charge or convict criminals.
Can Timothy's biological father be held accountable for child endangerment for allowing his mother to take physical custody against his custody aggreement?
This dude is flailing, poor guy. Any time you have to start waxing philosophical to the jury about the unknowable mysteries of the human mind… you’re in a bad spot
He says Paul should be charged with first degree murder SOOO what should she be charged with? That was a stupid mistake ( or perhaps that was his silent way to hang her)
This man is a very good attorney and I believe he has a good heart. Defense attorneys don't necessarily believe in their clients innocence, it's more like they're there to insure a fair trial. I believe he is a very good attorney but unfortunately his client is a monster.
He knows there is NO defense for what she did. So he resorts to the "semantical pretzel" tactic. Let's twist the obvious meaning of words to see if it works. Let's see if I can transform this demon, into a saint. MEMO TO: Defense Attorney.....go look for a new line of work !
Paul is not a moster, yes he got frustrated , but he was made to babysit a boy with issues that adults can barely handle . Paul was tired of it all like he said
This defense attorney did an amazing job representing a horrible person and a terrible case. Despite who he defended, he did do an amazing job and is a very skilled attorney, dealing with what he stated was his worse case hes dealt with since he baacame an attorney.
Texts told a great bit of the story, but physical evidence matched up. Handcuffs, zipties, hotsauce, alarms, locks, motion sensors....and most importantly, the autopsy results.
Those text did tell the story but not all. I don't want to know what else that child went through that is not on text. She did not love Timothy! Love does not hurt us nor unalive us!! IMO She is not a mom, she is an evil monster! God bless the jury for finding her guilty and God bless Timothy's attorney for the great job he did!
He had an impossible job on his hands, but he still could have made a better argument. The text messages aren’t irrelevant, and no matter what Paul did, the attorney can hardly argue his client wasn’t fully aware of Timothy’s condition.
I know everyone is entitled to a fair trial, but her Defense is clutching at straws. What she did is disgusting and hateful and in spite of what the Defense is trying to gloss over, the facts are there for all to see. How does that man sleep at night defending such a client?
I like what this attroney said after the trial on Court T.V. . He knows justice was done. This was a terrible trial for him to have to try and work a dwfense.
