degrading love - part two | how religions distort 'love' [cc] 

"Religions that break up friends and family have nothing to teach me about love." - Quotable.

Remember kids, Jesus died for nothing if you don't sin.

This channel is the proof of intelligent life on youtube...

I actually asked this "How do you find happiness in heaven when you're conscious of loved ones burning in hell" to ha pastor, who really answered: "God will make sure you won't care about that anymore." Thank you very much, but what if I don't want to NOT care about that, because I actually LOVE these people?

Have I ever mentioned how comforting I find your voice? It's like a down comforter and cup of hot chocolate on a cold, damp day.

It's funny. When I was a believer, I told myself that my religion didn't degrade my self-worth, but elevated it. Because of Jesus' sacrifice, I was made into a son of God, with infinite worth. But now that I'm free of my past delusions, I can see the obvious flaw in that logic. If the entirety of my self-worth depends on what someone else did for me, then there is nothing inherently valuable about myself. Religion programmed me to see myself as a wretched being, utterly broken and deserving of eternal punishment. I was programmed to feel guilty about a man who died thousands of years ago, and was made to believe that my very existence was the cause of Jesus' pain. Christianity doesn't elevate self-worth, it makes believers to believe that they are worthless.

please don't stop with your videos... your aurguements are changing lives

Everywhere you go, people create god in their own image, as a simple but very effective tool to justify their own beliefs and actions, and force them onto others with promises of great reward and awful punishment for failing to comply. Sounds an awful lot like social engineering and psychological warfare to me...

I reject this degrading love

Was a JW for 27 years and what led me out was my kids leaving and me knowing that I would not shun them or abandon them, that led me to do research about the organization and I found out they were lying about things. Love this channel, it’s taught me about narcissistic relationships and helped me a lot!

1) The idea of punishing Adam/Eve for being ignorant, 2) The idea of killing an innocent man, 3) The idea of killing as a requirement to forgive I wondered why were the adults lying to me, since, this was not in keeping with the idea of good or loving.

My mother used to talk about Jeffrey Dahmer, and how he converted to Christianity before his death. She would use this not only as an example of God's boundless forgiveness and love but also to say that no matter what you were in life, all that truly mattered was your faith in Christ. To this day I am discouraged as an Atheist and Buddhist that no matter what kind of man I am, I will always be less than an insane cannibalistic serial killer in the eyes of my family. I am hurt by this and don't know how I can ever really feel at home or loved by my family. The pain is one that cuts deeper than any knife ever could.

I’m glad you also talked about Islam. Most people talk about christianity alone when it comes to abusive religions, but Islam also preaches dangerous mindsets. I love your videos!

5:53 I'm from the Maldives and I was Muslim before I became atheist. I'm glad I'm not from one of the very extreme counties but still if I did come out publicly, I would be socially disgraced and wouldn't be able to easily find a job. My parents would possibly disown me, and even my closest cousin whom I grew up with would probably look at me in a bad way. It's not that I care too much about what people think, it's just that I wouldn't have a future for myself if I come out now. Which is why I'm waiting until I'm out of the country.

The "No Give, All Take" and needy demands for submission should be easy to notice, but quite often the social aspect of religion, and early indoctrination, smooth over those warning signs. The awkward "Can you feel it?" is merely evidence of hubris for those who exploit natural tendencies of peer pressure and familial trust. These videos reveal what's at play.

“Religions that break up friends and family have nothing to teach me about love” Amazing line. I know lots of people have already commented it, but I just needed to commit that to memory real quick

What was it I saw said in the comments section on another related video? Jesus: Let me in! Me: Why? Jesus: To protect you! Me: From what? Jesus: From what I'll do to you if you don't let me in!

Why in hell did I get two master's degrees. I just needed to listen to this guy.

The RU-vid ad algorithm in it's infinite wisdom decided that the appropriate ad to sit beside this video was one for a site that promises to help Muslims find a spouse. I suppose "degrading love" and a religion tag seemed to make the perfect match for that ad and I can't help to agree.

I'm nearing what I believe is the final stage of my transition out of Christianity. I still have the occasional doubt, but can generally discredit them with logic and reason from a variety of angles. These kinds of videos help prepare me for what comes next: Living in the world as a confident atheist. I don't need to justify my choices to anyone, but I need to understand my own reasoning so I can offer help to others who might be struggling.

Even when I was religious, I never really accepted Jesus' sacrifice, because I never once comprehended it during my entire time as a christian. My thought process could be summarized roughly like this: "So, his death on the cross somehow made our sins be forgiven? Oookaaayyyy, if you say so, my dudes. I don't see how that works." I never once made the connection that it was a sacrifice, a scapegoat, that he was allegedly taking the burden of what were supposedly my "sins". That he was allegedly taking "my" punishment for me. I never _could_ have made the connection, because it so blatantly contradicted my understanding of morality. God was supposed to be _good,_ right? So he couldn't have been thinking that we deserve such a gruesome pain when we were trying to be good. And wouldn't try to punish someone for someone else's crimes, right? The ideas were so fundamentally incompatible that my brain automatically rejected the idea without me ever becoming aware of it. As a catholic, it also baffled me that only men could be priests. When I heard that evangelicals/protestants allowed female priests, I wondered why we were catholic. If god was good, he couldn't have been prejudiced against women, right? I never felt a strong connection to church, either. How could we mere mortals do a "service" to an omnipotent being? How did going to church "serve" god? What use was any of this to the omnipotent creator that I believed in? I would have rather stayed home and not be bored out of my mind, listening to pointless drivel about ancient times. I had some superficial stumps of belief in some of the rituals we performed, but nothing truly deep. When it came to communion, I was more interested in the gifts I would receive for the first communion celebration, and while I still believed in god at the time, I didn't really care for any of the rituals. Overall, it's no surprise that my belief crumbled to dust as I matured. With no evidence-feedback and persistent honest thought about the subject, it was only a matter of time until I outgrew those silly superstitions.

You are a person of importance in the fight against cults, against scams. You are a hero to me in this regard. I hope RU-vid shares you with the world.

freewill in order to give up freewill. Once that made perfect sense, no more. :) merry new year!

I've just recently discovered that I've considered myself agnostic for a while and now and I never really knew why. My sister sent me one of these videos and I haven't stopped listening to them for a few days now. I feel so...guilty for leaving a religion I grew up in with such nice people but an even bigger part of me feels so ashamed for being blinded and actively preaching for my religion without knowing all the facts. I've had to read and recite the Bible and go to conventions but I guess I never truly understood what I was saying. Just a robot spewing out what I was given. Even typing this out, I feel a huge weight being lifted but I can't shake the feeling of gods eyes staring at the back of my head disapprovaling. I know it will be a while until I get comfortable being agnostic or atheist but right now its very confusing and swarming with emotions. Im terrified things will go wrong as punishment or my parents will never speak to me again even though my little brother is being brainwashed just like I was. Why is this revelation from religion hurting more than my childhood trauma? Idk. But these videos are helping and I appreciate such a kind voice helping me to understand the world for what I should have known it as.

God-sent himself die as a sacrifice to himself to appease himself for the price that he demanded. How does that make sense?

I feel like the bit in Exodus about God hardening Pharoah's heart is material for one of the scariest cosmic horror stories possible. Imagine desperately wanting to get rid of a handful of slaves so that monstrous plagues stop coming at you. But you somehow can't agree when it comes down to it because a faceless, formless being that is so above anything you can possibly think forces you to say no every time.

this man's videos are soo water tight you notice none of the apologetics tries to make response videos its amazing

You need more exposure to people on RU-vid. You're channel needs to reach more people.

Thank you so much for your videos. You speak with such compassion and thoughtfulness, that I actually feel sorry for you: this level of insight can only come from distilling years of pain, loneliness and anguish. It's a pity that you had to go through that in order to become the person that you are today, but some people can now have an easier journey because of your efforts. Far too many people are eager to surrender their free will and responsibility for the sake of a few comforting lies, so I don't think we'll ever be fully rid of this abusive love. Still, it's a great comfort for heretics to know that they are not alone, and sane. The ending of your video beautifully captured that feeling. Happy New Year!

fuking love the boss battle music whenever there's a new chapter and passive aggressive quotes are on screen

I'm still trying to work out what love is. As a kid, it was always said to me when I was in trouble and my parents were blaming me for everything. "We're doing this for your own good, we're beating you so you can go to heaven. It's because we love you." Sure. I have worked out that they don't love me, and the reason is that as far as I can tell, love is a mutually beneficial relationship based on familiarity.

the BD/SM visuals/references are killing me lmao

Thank you! It is very comforting to know you the most rational person feel the sea of feelings from religion like I do! 💗

Oh yeah, I was hit by "you'll never be free unless you accept god as your master". It was kind of insulting that one would even try convincing people in such an illogical way.

I'm struggling with deconverting myself, and your videos are of massive help :D thank you.

I love these videos however as a former JW I have to point out an error. JW's are routinely discouraged from participating in traditional forms of charity.

Definitely spooked me when @ 16:08 you revealed, we pay Yahweh, to protect us from Yahweh. It’s so simple yet has a bit of a scary touch to it when illustrated.

God hardening hearts isn't just mentioned in Exodus; 'For it was the LORD's doing to harden their hearts so that they would come against Israel in battle, in order to be utterly destroyed, and might receive no mercy, but be exterminated' Joshua 11:20

""Would I rather be feared or loved? Easy, both. I'd rather people be afraid of how much the love me" -Michael Scott" -God

Sir, After watching a couple of your videos I feel more alone than ever knowing that a majority of my race is religious and is opposed to helping themselves because they are waiting for an invisible fairytale father to come and rescue them. How does one help some of these people to see that no one is coming to rescue them and that they have to help themselves? Btw... I love your content.

Let me start off by saying, I highly enjoy your content, and it's enlightening to me. You bring up points I either have never actually thought about, or, have perhaps stumbled upon but haven't given much thought to. Despite being an atheist, I have been going to church with my father for the past month, every Saturday, including today (yesterday, in your case). I do so to understand and learn about the doctrine and Christians themselves. The denomination is a rather interesting one, I was raised on it. It's a Seventh Day Adventist church. Essentially, they are quite literal in their interpretation, such as Sabbath on Saturdays, rejection of the modern worldview of universe billions of years old, etc. I don't know if this applies to all, but I have spoken to quite a few of them and from what I can deduce, they reject hell as meaning a place of eternal torture, but as metaphorical. In certain places they have strong points, but in others, they are weak. Happy New Year to you, and I hope you have a great day and a fantastic year. Also, have you ever considered writing a book? You are extremely knowledgable and articulate. If wrote a book, I absolutely would read it. I should add in that my reason for wanting to increase my knowledge about the religion is that in the future, I plan on publicly denouncing all religions, much like you are. I aim to also write a book on the subject in a way I haven't seen done before. An objective analysis of the validity of major world religions.

the perks of being a wallflower quote is one of my favorite quotes on the planet, i love your usage of it!!!

What are your thoughts on the idea proposed by some Christians that human "free will" really only constitutes a choice between being a slave to god or being a slave to Satan? They don't word it that way of course, but when I question them that's essentially what it comes down to. There is nothing more frustrating then a person who tells me I have the freedom to choose, only to turn around and insist that when I don't choose what they want me to choose it means Satan is using and/or manipulating me.

Oddly enough, the Christian logic should be that the blood sacrifice of jesus ends all original sin that is passed down through the generations, allowing us free will and only be accountable for the sins we commit throughout our lives and do not correct. As if to bugfix this atrocity of Yahweh. Yet Christian preachers do not tell it like that at all, keeping us in the perpetual cycle of being born wrong, when we aren't; and not partaking in any abrahamic religion, never were in all of history.

Good to hear your sultry voice again TheraminTrees!

I wish I'd got around to sending in my "I reject this degrading love" audio.

All " gods " have duble and triple standarts - triangulation, gaslighting and gives you torture and misery and guilttripe you for simply be a human - its all so insane and supernarcissistic.

If this love was true, I wouldn't be treated the way I was by my mother, aunt and grandmother two days ago for merely questioning the validity of their claims.

More and more, the love these deities allege toward us less resembles genuine affection than it does the obsession of the abusive partner or spouse. Worse, they depend on our lack of self-value to sustain themselves and the relationship. No such relationship can survive someone who owns and values themselves, who scrutinizes the bogus offer such deities proffer and rejects it for its obvious flaws. Indeed, it isn't love these gods want. It's ownership.

I don't understand how your channel isnt more commonly known. Your arguments are so incredibly well stated.

This is all very real for me; the conflict of the idea of "love" from God but the harsh and ETERNAL punishment he gives to all of us for merely existing on our own terms was what my religious trauma stemmed from growing up. The idea that an all-knowing and apparently all-loving deity would give me all of this imagination, sexual drive, anger, and intelligence only to ask me to box it up or ignore it was cruel and terrifying.

"As a child i didn't understand this blood magic stuff" is now one of my favorite references to the crucifiction of Jesus.

Spreading the good word of reason, one video at a time.

I always tell people that if my husband treated me like Yahweh did, everyone I know would tell me to get out of the relationship FAST. It seems like a cruel betrayal that nobody ever did that and I spent so long in an abusive relationship with Yahweh. Good riddance.

I’m Agnostic & it took me years to transition from facetious modern Christianity to it. I love how lucid you’ve expressed much of the contradictions we’ve both faced as your videos express what I wrestled how to convey. Those of us who have struggled & those who currently are are not alone! Kudos. 😊

Thank you for Bringing more Light to the JW cult shunning practice. It has had a huge impact on my life. Moving forward is difficult but the freedom it brings is all worth it.

You heal me so much...I identify with what you say, and much of it is material that I've conceptualized but haven't been able to vocalize. You do that for me time and time again in these videos. Cant' thank you enough....Please keep posting.

23:58 EXACTLY, i said this once to somebody that tried to make me muslim But my response was similar to: How can i enjoy heaven knowing somebody is burning in hell until the end of time? The amount of guilt and selfishness... And you want me to just blatantly ignore the pain, screaming for mercy while they are getting tortured every second? The people around me... my family, friends, my neighbour, the people on the streets, the city, the country, The entire WORLD ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL JUST BY NOT BELIEVING IN SOMETHING THAT NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN?! And he stopped responding I responded 3 consecetive hellish punishments that supposedly that people endured and he just stopped responding...

I had to leave my christian faith in order to begin to understand what actual love should look like.. Thanks for this TT ...beautifully explained and very well presented video.

I read verse John 3:16 and thought "wow, what a bargain" sarcastically. If I believe in him maybe I won't perish. What a merciful god.

I have been trying to explain these same topics to people for years. Sadly few want to hear the paradoxes and lack of love.

Divine forgiveness erasing personal accountability is one of the biggest gripes I have with religion. Kudos to you for mentioning it, I think I was quite an asshole as a kid precisely because of this. As long as I could be forgiven by Jesus I never had to face accountability for my actions or feel remorseful.

I never thought i needed to tell myself the phrase "I reject this degrading love." love that to the giver only meant giving when i was worth it when they thought i was.

I really love the symbolism of the graphics used for this video, all your videos really. For example at 5:10 there's the impossible figure, which isn't just a drawing, but can be made in real life as an optical illusion. All the sides appear to be connected but we also know consciously and subconsciously they can't be. There's the simplicity of switching between Christianity and Islam by flipping God's head around. And of course the somewhat atypical symbol of a master a slave.

I remember being invited to my BFF's church when we were still children and consistently degraded for what I was wearing. And by what I was wearing I mean one time it was cold, the heater was broken so I wanted to keep my fuzzy cap on to keep my head warm. Apparently, God hated it and condemned me because it had cat ears on it and was pink. A few years later I had started carrying more stuff with me as I needed to start carrying keys, extra inhalers for my asthma, a cell phone, a medical kit, a sewing kit, a pack of tissues, various female products, etc and realized that women's clothes just didn't have enough pockets for this stuff. I took to using a purse but I kept putting it down and found it was difficult to organize anything in it because everything was being mixed together. So whenever my family broke down and my dad was cursing my mom and I out for not carrying flashlights and multitools I scrambled to find mine to hand it over and quiet him down. After a few months, I decided to get one of those clip-on phone cases that hooked to my belt. I got a clip to hook my keys to a belt loop and came across a medical kit that would loop around my belt as well. I was getting unbalanced in my teen years and found myself either getting hurt or constantly around other people that were getting hurt. I took first aid once it started becoming apparent that I would need to carry around more than simple band-aids for emergencies. I needed to know how to get out splinters of various materials, I needed to know how to drain infections, I needed to know how to set bones, I needed to know how to treat venomous bites and stings, etc. If it could happen it was either happening to me or someone near me and I needed to be prepared. A few more demeaning rants from my father about my inability to have what he needed when he needed it and I got an additional pouch for carrying a multitool, a flashlight and electrical tape. I got around to calling it my utility belt. My friend invited me to her church soon after again and I found myself condemned once again, except this time for what I was carrying. "Why do you have to wear THAT?" was one of the first questions I was asked and even after explaining about my family's troubles with our vehicle and how I was finding the first aid kit helpful in various situations with myself and others I was still glared at and muttered "sinful" at. It confused me because they were tools to fix problems both mechanical and biological. Wouldn't "my heavenly father" be proud that I was ready with the tools to help people? Religion never made sense to me.

I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

I like point #6. Realizing that only I could determine my worth ended my depression when I was a teenager. While you do have to self-reflect critically and honestly a lot to avoid narcissism and bias, seeking validation from others just lets them control you.

Could't have a better christmas present. Happy new year, mate.

Religions grip on society must come to an end by any means necessary.

I remember listening to all the reasons I wasn’t allowed to love gay people as a kid. I believed all of them because I based the feeling on my own, cause if I never acted on these “desires” then they shouldn’t either! I paraded around with the thought of “If I love them enough, they’ll change to be just like me!” Then I started doing something quite dangerous as I grew up, I started thinking. The “TERRIBLE ACTS” these people were commuting started to seem less like intentional sins and more like human behavior, but that couldn’t be, right? Surely they’d soon change their minds! Then, when I reached an age where everyone around me was wondering what my kids would be like, I started to question my own basis. Suddenly “not acting on desire” became “being selfish towards your significant other.” Yet, no matter what I did, I couldn’t switch my brain to suddenly want that kind of stuff. When I didn’t get any sufficient answers from my parents, elders, or priests, I turned to the internet. I found out about Asexuality. The moment I did, everything started crumbling down. I couldn’t “love” someone until they’d change because I had experienced the impossibility of changing my own mindset out of that same, strangely hateful love. So I tried to deny my own feelings and based my new truth on God alone, but then that spiraled into a self-hatred so strong that I almost ended myself. After all of that, I had to accept something I was avoiding for the longest time. The love I was taught about, sang about, prayed for, and essentially forced upon others wasn’t true love… So what is it then? I’m still learning that. I’m proud in who I am now, having given myself the freedom to express my true identity. I still struggle with some homophobic thoughts that pop up in my head every now and again. And I’ve started to wonder, the moment I think “ew, I don’t like *those* people,” why?

an intelligent and insightful content creator

Thank you so much for these videos. I recently found them and they are helping me resolve the hellish life of growing up in a Catholic household and then joining a Christian cult. I finally am coming out of the atrocious brainwashing, feels like I am finally living.

I just discovered your channel last night and I was made a fan very quickly. I love how everything is explained so well! So much thought has been put into these videos. Keep up the great work!

Thank you so much for your video. happy new year. greetings from Mexico!

The cacophony of voices at the end sends literal chills down my spine.

Your theme reminds me of "Sweet things are made of this". Also, your videos are an excellent look at the psychology of religions and drawing comparisons with abusive relationships. It's great you are empowering people by opening their eyes to the subtle tricks and manipulative tactics of organizations and individuals. Cheers

A lot of what you say about Jehovah's Witnesses certainly applies to Mormonism. Everything you were saying about the shunning tactics falls right in line with most Mormon practice in dealing with "apostates." "The habitual force of unworthiness" rings so true. "The feeling that my life was not my own." WOW. Perfect. Seriously... religion seems determined to get followers to lose all sense of individuality and identity. THAT force is what drove me to deep depression in my mid 20s. It has taken 20 years to pull myself completely clear of that alone. Great work.

This is my new favorite channel. As a former Jehovah's Witness and an atheist, these videos are extremely helpful for me. Thank you so much.

This series has been amazingly well done. I'm so happy that someone recommended it to me. I'm tempted to show the 2 part series to my parents but this would freak them out too much I believe.

I literally came here from "degrading love - part two | how religions distort 'love' [cc]", this is where I land when I click back and I watched that video to 100%. Yet RU-vids top video suggestion on the right - right below "next video" is: "degrading love - part two | how religions distort 'love' [cc]" Top of the edge suggestion algorithms, the best there is! Great video btw! Really appreciate it.

I'm constantly amazed that there can be SO many Christians who look at Matthew 10:37 and Luke 14:26 and not be appalled at the concept at how absurd and immoral it is.

"Layers of Depravity" would be a badass name for a book.

Thanks, man, I've almost been indoctrinated as a young adult and your videos are really therapeutic to watch for me

The clarity in your videos and which they confer are unparalleled. Have a wonderful New Year. Greetings from Hong Kong.

I was just thinking about this recently! What was the point of god giving us free will "because he loves us so much" if he's just going to punish us with eternal torture for not choosing to worship him every second of our lives?

You’re not alone, I reject this degrading love

Ever since I got the notion of sin out of my head my life has been so much better and I’ve been even nicer because I’ve minded my own business and went by common sense morals. Religion is useless for anything but manipulation.

Son of a minister and grandson of a Bible Baptist missionary here - I rejected Christianity at an early age and at great personal risk. I thought this was enough but now, a lifetime later, I'm learning it wasn't. I hadn't really unpacked it as I hadn't lived enough life to see its insidious effect on me. My rejection was mostly instinctual and emotional. I understand all you say very intimately, know most of the scripture, heard all these things before. it is profound for me to hear presented in this way. Amazing. Very helpful. Thank you

I remember being taught as a child, "be a slave for jesus"

thank you for helping me deconstructing the built in "love" thought by my former religion

Yis! I've been waiting, and relistening to your older videos in anticipation. :^)

It seems like abusers everywhere parents partners religion bosses and managers at work. And they all use the same scheme. Thank you for clarity Your videos are life changing and life saving.

Your videos are phenomenal! I wish I could get many of my family members and friends to watch them. They're so indoctrinated that the mere 'watching' a video is akin to sinning...never question...never doubt. Sad, very sad. I'm the first atheist in my family. My daughter is the second. Religion is everywhere. It's daunting.

21:40 Excellent analysis and explanation of the pseudo-love offered. So many questions answered.

Theramin, please do commentary on Hinduism/eastern religions. I am eager to hear your perspective.

miniscule criticism: I think the music is a tad loud compared to your voice. Otherwise, great video, as always.

I've been in the Mormon church ever since I was a kid because I was born to Mormon parents. I always kind of felt weird about church. I recently realized that I don't have a testimony, and have never had one. Whenever I was asked to share my testimony, I simply repeated what I commonly heard other members say, such as "I know the Church is true". I've never been truly moved by sharing my testimony, and it always confused me why other people got so choked up while sharing stories of faith. Unanswered questions kept popping up. Why would God exclude people from supposedly divine and important things, such as temple marriage, for something as benign as sexuality? If anyone can repent and be forgiven and not have their right to temple marriage taken away, why does homosexuality cross the line? These questions are invariably answered with "I don't know. God works in mysterious ways. Why don't you ask him?" I try asking, but never receive answers. My parents are very supportive people and I'm sure they would accept it if I told them I no longer believe the Mormon Church is true, but I'm nervous about it and feel as though I owe them an explanation. These videos do a really good job of putting a lot of the questions I have into words, and I'm considering showing them to my parents in order to explain why I don't believe anymore.

I'm going through and binging a lot of your videos again and I just want to say there's something oddly badass about hearing you pepper in those colder sounding jabs every now and then. I can't help but internally cheer every time you do it thinking "Heck yeah!! Stick it to 'em!! >:)"

excellent as always. thanks for all your work

This is freaking brilliant! It personifies all of my reasons for being atheist and why i am raising my children accordingly. So many points i argued back in the day, only to be told i was wrong, or misguided, or to young to understand... many thanks for your studies and insight!