Democracy is natural to humans and animals | Thom Hartmann interview

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-- Thom Hartmann, host of the Thom Hartmann Program and author of the new book "The Hidden History of American Democracy: Rediscovering Humanity's Ancient Way of Living," joins David to discuss democracy, happiness, forms of government, traditional societies, and much more. Get the book: amzn.to/3QhD93X
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Broadcast on July 25, 2023
#davidpakmanshow #thomhartmann #democracy

Опубликовано:

6 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 173

@markgreen4612 Год назад

I never cease to be perplexed at how under subscribed Thom Hartmann is on his RU-vid channel.

@susanmaguire Год назад

His is one of the most educational out there.

@that_heretic Год назад

I once made a comment on a video he put out that in summary concluded that we weren't moving fast enough to address climate change, and should all prepare accordingly as we're able. I made the comment because he was being overly optimistic, in my view, about what the green new deal would accomplish. This was seen by his subscribers as ridiculous, and all of the replies to my original post were people angry about the fact I was being honest with them. (I'm not trying to present myself as a victim, please don't misinterpret this). I suspect at least some of the anomaly you're describing can be attributed to that insular behavior of his current subscribers who bother to comment on his videos. Plus younger people don't listen to the radio and probably don't know who he is. Interviews like this can help with that.

@nk1974 Год назад

I’m subscribed to his channel.

$@fractalign$

@fractalign Год назад

I’m guilty of that, I only discovered him recently, I subscribed as soon as I did.

@bovinityleak2066 Год назад

Me too l! But to fair i only heard about him recently when farron at ring of fire channel (during a q & a) said thoms show was at the top of his list. Respecting farron greatly, i went to check thom out and his content has been really good! If i hadnt heard about him that one little time i would not really know of him. Maybe be he has been on davids show before but ive never noticed.

@dgemini2 Год назад

Every time you have Hartmann on it goes straight into my Favorites playlist.

@bevinboulder5039 Год назад

Thom has an amazing encyclopedic knowledge of American political history.

@Spacepuft Год назад

I could listen to Thom all day...

@vaguelydangerous Год назад

I think most of David's audience might be a little younger than me but, if you aren't familiar with Thom Hartman, I encourage you to listen to his show. He is brilliant, absolutely insightful and in-depth. I also highly recommend Randi Rhodes.

@vaguelydangerous Год назад

@@aMAGAca LoL. You believe that, don't you ?

@vaguelydangerous Год назад

@@aMAGAca I absolutely don't fear him or you or any other fascist pig. Does that answer your question?

@afry6400 Год назад

@@aMAGAca It isn't fear. It's self preservation. He is a parasite, a cancer, and he needs removed from the whole. A better question is why do you cling to your own decline so desperately?

@jessicaheger1880 Год назад

@@aMAGAcatrump was the worst president we ever had. He doesn't care at all about the American people; he's only in it for himself. We are a weaker nation with him at the helm. Maga is a fascist cult, not a serious political party.

@sarahtiferet9025 Год назад

@@aMAGAca LOL! Oh okay Troll -- Why do you feel the need to get attention in such a pathetic way ? Poor freak

@OrdinaryVisionaries 11 месяцев назад

Thom Hartmann has an encyclopedic knowledge of history. Every time I read or hear him my brain expands. Please have him frequently on your show, David!

@jesse75 11 месяцев назад

Every time I hear Hurtmann speak gets my amygdaloid complex to react.

@susanmaguire Год назад

Hi Thom! I'm subscribed to your channel. Your work is invaluable.

@nick8243 Год назад

Thom is great!!

@anachronistofer Год назад

By metrics alone it's obvious that the Scandinavian countries, at least most of them, have figured it out.

@kathleenroberts6931 7 месяцев назад

Just after WW2, President Harry Truman pushed Europe to adopt FDR'S Second Bill of Rights aka the Economic Bill of Rights, which they did, & has proven successful in nearly eliminating Poverty and Crime ❤We are the only modern country on Earth 🌎 that does not have Universal Healthcare & Universal Secular Education Pre-K-College &/or Trade Schools ❤ Republican-controlled Congress blocked FDR'S Second Bill of Rights, because they didn't want to include minorities 😡. Every Social Safety Net Program came from Progressive Democrats. Republicans? Zero 0⃣...

@m2eclipse Год назад

Fascinating, the commonality between humans and animals. This shows us, once again, that we are not so different. Yet due to greed and immorality, people justify the enslavement of them, much like the way Patrick Henry and others justified slavery. Be on the right side of history 🌱

@kayfitzgerald309 Год назад

Luv both of y'all!!@ thnx for your channels & education!!!

@NalitaQubit Год назад

Thought provoking interview. Thank you!

@brynawaldman5790 Год назад

Franz de Waals, Dutch primatologist, coined the phrase "alpha male" & used it to refer to species in which one male had a group of females he lived with; but the media & political pundit's got hold of the term & completely distorted it, making it equivalent to an authoratarian who rules thru intimidation & violence. The silverback male great ape is very kind & gentle to the weakest members of his group. He may have to battle other males to maintain his leadership role, but if he isn't gentle with the weak, he also loses his leadership position. It's too late to bring back the meaning de Waals intended, & I don't know whether or not biology books stick to de Waal's definition, or not. BTW, de Waal is the researcher who discovered that many other primates have a sense of justice & fairness. There are lots of RU-vid clips on his work.

@bovinityleak2066 Год назад

Great conversation! I have a lot of respect for both thom and david.

@carrieraupp757 Год назад

I ❤ Thom and his historical facts 😊

@dmitrireavis1729 Год назад

I love these interviews. Please consider doing long-form interviews ~2 hours). I know everyone wants short clips and sound bites, but topics like this need a more thoughtful approach.

@amyjackson8725 Год назад

Just because they founded the country, does not mean we should revere them and act like they had no flaws. They intentionally wrote the Constitution so it could be changed as needed. They knew they were not perfect. The line about making a "more perfect union", meant one that was an improvement and still had room for improvement, not that it was "perfect" and should be preserved as is.

@bobbafett1849 Год назад

Not even the framers were "originalists" since they actually built in a way to CHANGE it. They're called Amendments

@rogersmith7396 Год назад

Hows that change going simp? The founding fathers were upper class elitists who intended to create an oligarpy. Guess what, the succeeded.

@rebz8805 Год назад

Excellent interview. I love listening to your show.. I always learn something.

@littledickydolittle3071 11 месяцев назад

Enjoy Bidens endless stream of Migrants! 😄

@MrMarinus18 11 месяцев назад

That 150 people limit also misses an important thing which is culture. Cultural norms are enforced by a web of relationships so even if every individual can only know 150 people each one of those also has friends and family and so cultural norms can be expressed over a much larger group by interconnected relationships. I do think though that laws are needed still. As a society gets larger and more sophisticated the laws governing it need to evolve as well.

@user-qu3yw2pf6c Год назад

Thanks for this!!

@fishbone2921 Год назад

Thank you David. Thom is an amazing historical and political source of information .

@druss1861 Год назад

Wrong, in every way possible!

@bobbafett1849 Год назад

@@druss1861lol truth hurts

@druss1861 Год назад

@@bobbafett1849 What truth? Name the animals that practice democracy!

@druss1861 Год назад

@@bobbafett1849 Not got any examples, eh? Do ya need more hour's to not have an answer?

@druss1861 Год назад

@@bobbafett1849 lol, taught so!

@tylerhackner9731 Год назад

Love Thom

@vaguelydangerous Год назад

Thom, you're a legend.

@TransKidsMafia Год назад

Trans kids for life

@FistandFootMartialArts 11 месяцев назад

It is *such a joy* to listen to Mr Hartmann. Thx David😀.

@docbauk3643 Год назад

Thom is the best!! I use the example of democracy in nature all the time in the classroom. Hang in there David you are getting better. 😉

@dianamayfield5615 Год назад

Two of my favorite RU-vidrs. Wonderful to see them together. I hope to see more...

@LimitlessThinker Год назад

I have been listening to Thom for years and watch his weekly show on FreeSpeech TV or catch it on YT. I share it on Twitter. Thom is the best. Great work guys. Discovered David when he first started.

@fletch44 Год назад

David, have you read the book “The Dawn of Everything” by David Graeber and David Wengrow? Excellent book and touches upon some of the things you talk about with Thom here. I highly recommend that book to just about everyone watching this video who is interested in learning more. It's much much better than the wildly overrated Guns Germs and Steele by Jared Diamond, an author you refer to in this discussion. Actual historians don't have a ton of respect for many of Diamond's books, a guy who was not a historian or anthropologist. Read The Dawn of Everything, it's so much better than anything by Jared Diamond.

@denisemorton56 Год назад

my thoughts also.

@fbrosseau Год назад

I really like this Thom Hartmann with his great knowledge of the history and sociology of the United States, of the Founding Fathers and of the minds of those who wrote the Constitution. He has a knack for relating facts to what people of the time wrote and did to build the early USA. The interpretation that different groups can make of the writings now centuries later, because of the First Amendment, points in all directions the true primary reasons that the Fathers of the country had in 1776. Knowing history is fundamental to political culture that enlightened citizens must have.

@bretfisher7286 Год назад

The trouble with this democracy stuff is that some people who feel themselves entitled to take things they want, rather than earn things they want, or ask for things from the larger society, in cooperation and in healthy discourse, will be endlessly frustrated by the form-- the form being an ethical structure based on law and good-faith intercourse between equals. That is simply not good enough for them. These are people who do not ask for anything they want-- once they see it, they take it. From anyone, from everyone, no matter the consequences or the damage to the structure itself. I have described Donald Trump and his family of predatory sociopaths disguised in elegant suits. This is exactly why, to be very direct, these people despise democracy. It's a very practical thing to them. Democracy gets in their way.

@that_heretic Год назад

That's not the only problem. We also aren't starting on an equal footing. A kid raised in the hills of Appalachia doesn't have the same chance of economic success or education as a kid raised in Beverly Hills. Democracy is horrible. It's just better than any other form of government we've figured out.

@bretfisher7286 Год назад

@that_heretic It absolutely demands a membership of good-natured citizens. And if enough of that citizenry is immoral, or devious, or sociopathic, or.. or *Trump*, democracy can and will fail. It is the express purpose of the conservative media and the braintrust of the Republican Party to gradually erode the prospect of working democracy in America. I would never have said anything like that until Trump, because I hesitate to be alarmist or a doomsayer. Not any more. This is a genuine fascist movement.

@afry6400 Год назад

@@that_heretic That isn't democracy though. That's capitalism blended with conservatism.

@that_heretic Год назад

@@afry6400 Sure it is. You'll never have a "good faith intercourse between equals" in the real world. Has nothing to do with conservatism and capitalism. I could have just as easily picked a kid on the South side of Beverly Hills and a kid on the North side. Or a kid born in the ghetto and a kid born to the mayor. Or a million other dichotomies that exist in real life. We don't all get the same chances in life, and we don't all make the same choices with the chances we get. So when the time for choosing comes in a democratic system, it will never be a choice made between equals. Argued by equals. Or made, necessarily, in good faith. The only way it could ever be is if the choice was abstracted above economic, cultural, and political realities faced on the ground by the people who live them. Which almost never happens. The tough choices almost always affect us in tangible ways, even if not immediately.

@RacismIsMentalillness Год назад

@@that_hereticif it were democracy, the will of the people would be enacted more than the will of billionaires.

@rajo741 Год назад

Just tremendous information. Some of us have always understood that our natural inclinations are to help one another. Just look at how people behave in the face of climate disasters. People help one another to safety. Over and over again.

@raabidskate Год назад

This is my favorite crossover ever

@LimitlessThinker Год назад

I suggest: The Christian Nation Myth by Farrell Till. This is a fantastic read that covers everything on the subject.

@christiey6585 11 месяцев назад

This is excellent!! Thank you!!!

@johnplatt9518 11 месяцев назад

Thom Hartman looks like Eric Clapton! Been listening to Thom since Air America in the 2000’s as well as Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy. Thom is one heck of an historian!

@KanadianRaven Год назад

That was illuminating! Thx 😉👍

@languageofhorses5324 Год назад

I know this will fascinate me. Im listening.

@marryellenmonahan5585 Год назад

Taught me about Progressive values and turned me on to Bernie years ago❤

@theanomaloushousewife886 Год назад

When the human race can use AI to show us how to end authoritarianism, then we're talking. Authoritarianism is THE problem, not a solution.

@janetmarugg9424 11 месяцев назад

Great guest!

@user-qu3yw2pf6c Год назад

This is an excellent interview.

@tamaradiana2431 Год назад

Informative. I enjoyed this. 🙂

@kathleenroberts6931 7 месяцев назад

Absolutely 💯% love Thom Hartmann Program ❤ I learned about Raygumb imposed NeoLiberalism 😡 Weekdays Noon Eastern Time in the U.S. Thanks for having him on your show, David Pakman ❤😊

@dabaumga 9 месяцев назад

Love Thom!!

@ebthedoc4992 Год назад

Thanks, TDPS and Thom Hartmqnn. One historical correction, however. The christiwnist Motto “IN GOD WE TRUST” was instigated during the Civil War by the Baptist preacher Watkinson, and slipped past Lincoln when he was busy, by SecTreas Chase, in Jan. of 1864, plus the Coinage Act of that April! And I remember having to relearn the Pladge of Allegiance, in 1957. Later in Fall of 1&64, the Catholics also put their oar in, printing “GOD AND OUR RIGHT” on the Twenty Dollar Treasury Note. Folks, that was the Motto of the Medieval Frankish Kings!

@zukewashere1539 Год назад

So even the animals and bugs are doing better than we are😢😢😢😅

@Zhengrui0 Год назад

It would be interesting to do an algorithmic complexity analysis on these distributed system.

@Hellvine Год назад

Wow this is amazing 🤩

@nura1627 Год назад

Fascinating. 🖖

@LCTesla Год назад

I think respect for individual autonomy, property and boundaries is fairly natural... organized democracy on the other hand is a pretty modern invention*. a good one, but let's not embellish it. it is a difficult and laborious system to maintain. it doesn't just emerge naturally without expended effort. * even among the ancient greeks it wasn't what we know it to be today... it was barely more than organized oligarchy in those days. democracy for the better offs only.

@uair9 Год назад

Does anyone have a link to the article in Nature about the societies in Central America?

@yvonneplant9434 Год назад

Yeh, Thom!!!

@8Pointbuck 7 месяцев назад

The truth is defined as the actual state of things and I would say Dr. Jan Halper does a very good job at stating the actual state of things. In zoology animal instinct to herd is not expected of human beings. For democrats I really like the term mass formation psychoses.

@willtwain1383 Год назад

My favorite Boomer and favorite Millennial talkers.

@mybachhertzbaud3074 9 месяцев назад

Usually, it becomes "some pigs are more equal than others" ,Orwell.😜

@Justin141-w3k Год назад

16:02 maybe there is a confusion with a lot of members of the government being Christian but not allowing it to interfere… more than it should… with governing

@LimitlessThinker Год назад

Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists in 1802, is where he mentioned Separation of Church and State. * The word God is not in the Constitution. * The Declaration of Independence only mentions the word Creator. Many of our forefathers were Deists, who believed in an unintrusive force. Deists insisted that religious truth should be subject to the authority of human reason rather than divine revelation. * In 1797, President John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which had been unanimously approved by the U.S. Senate. It goes on to state that, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." * James Madison's “Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments,” a document presented to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785, argued for complete religious liberty and against government support of religion in any form.

@clockwork914 Год назад

Thom Ruuuuulz❕

@MarkbyMarkAFosterPhD Год назад

Natural law theory has been used to justify everything from capitalist oligarchy to patriarchy to racism. Using it to justify democracy, however appealing, is just as problematic.

@rogersmith7396 Год назад

I would'nt be singing the praises of herd behavior. Lemmings comes to mind. Herd behavior gave us Trumpers and militarists.

@stevegarcia3731 2 месяца назад

Thom, LIDAR that found the Amazon cities under the jungle is not X-rays. It is lasers. Thom, several ancient cuktures in Mesoamerica that arkies orignally thought were nonviolent eere later on seen to be very warlike. So first impressions in archaeology are not reliable.

@robertkaminski9315 Год назад

LET'S GO BIDEN!! VOTE DEMOCRAT!!!

@GregMcGuire-kb9mq 10 месяцев назад

Start building a supertanker canal in Costa Rica

@l000tube Год назад

DUNBAR, the 150 people that its possible for our brains to know in some way is 150 and its known as the 'Dunbar Number' after the evolutionary biologist, i think Robi Dunbar.

@seanl6681 10 месяцев назад

I wonder what Thomas Penn is about a hamas attacking Israel?!

@user-rr1jw9cz1u Год назад

Gladwell jumped from grace.

@olddoug8945 Год назад

read jeremy bentham on how to organize society the history of american democracy? Read "The Old Line State." Hmmmmm.

@seanhraba747 Год назад

So is gang rape but I seriously doubt it'll catch on 😕🙄

@thepeff Год назад

Anomenity: try that in a small town

@carolingcello9304 Год назад

You can’t have anonymous voting

@stalwartman8015 2 месяца назад

We are a Republic, not a Democracy you should go read the Constitution . Democracy is how the big city's control the rest of us. The Republic gives us all seat at the table.

@foodwatermusic Год назад

Jesus was a just a politician

@MagnumInnominandum Год назад

So is cancer

@Beacon342 Год назад

Outside of Greece democracy didn't exist until the USA

@stevegarcia3731 2 месяца назад

But democracy and capitalism are at odds with each other.

@thomaskristensen4679 Год назад

This is not true at all in hunter-gather societies it's the smartest elder who rules in agricultural monarchy is the natural order modern societies are so new that no one can say what the natural stage is.

@wmrieker Год назад

Yes but authoritarianism or oligarchy is natural to money, and we know what makes the world go round...

@marvintpandroid2213 Год назад

I do like Thom most of the time but he really does have a blind spot for quack scientists, especially around the subject of Nuclear physics and power generation. When you see someone with such a blind spot it does make you doubt him about many other things too.

@SenatorBluto Год назад

He sounded good during the dark Bush years but now I'm done with him. He's been terrible during the covid years and there's not a chance in Hell that I'm following his advice to vote for the Biden crime family.

@docbauk3643 Год назад

I don’t understand. Can you please expand on this quack science and blind spot you talk about?

@marvintpandroid2213 Год назад

@@docbauk3643 He regularly has a guy on to talk about nuclear power who often uses misleading terms and uses fear mongering to sell his books. Yet he fails to have any real nuclear scientists on He uses terms like " thousands of tones of radioactive water" in relation to Fukushima when the water contains a few grams of naturally occurring tritium and carbon 14.

@docbauk3643 Год назад

@@marvintpandroid2213 with all due respect Fukushima has made thousands of tons of radioactive water. Luckily they got the Pacific Ocean to release it into and dilute it. It is what it is. Also who is to say some “guy” is not a nuclear scientist? Can you clarify who you are talking about please.

@marvintpandroid2213 Год назад

@@docbauk3643 I don't quite remember his name. You are under the same delusion in regards this water, but I did have a feeling you might have responded in that way. No matter how you irradiate H2O you can not make water radioactive. It used to contain an amount of contamination from the disaster however that contamination has been filtered to remove all that can be removed, leaving a few grams of tritium and Carbon 14, both naturally occurring gasses that are dissolved WITHIN the water and were already permitted to be released while the reactor was working, as are all other reactors.

@cammontreuil7509 10 месяцев назад

Something happened in this man's past to cause him to say hurtful lies and spread propaganda that isn't true. He should find the love of God.

@snarkyboots 21 день назад

American history is interesting but badly taught.

@user-ju7de7zg3q Год назад

No. Monarchy is nature.

@Hagbard1138 Год назад

My two favorite lie mongers.

@elenaortega9507 10 месяцев назад

Tom Hartmann !!

@teejay3272 Год назад

Thom Hartmann is great. And has been for a long time. But I think it's time we move the whole 'alpha' thing right out of the conversation. It's an antiquated notion that doesn't hold weight in nature. Social hierarchies are different.