Destiny 2 Lore - Did Ahsa just confirm that the Witness was once uplifted by Traveller? 

Just want to say that a titan flying straight into a mysterious glowing portal without any precautions is probably the most titan thing we've seen in a long time

Not gonna lie, Sloane’s ‘I always complete the mission’ reminds me of the Clone’s ‘Good soldiers follow orders’ from the Clone Wars for some reason. Is that just me?

The poor titan at the start does have a lore tab on one of the ships. His name is Joxer, he’s been in gambit lore a long time (since the launch of gambit if I remember correctly) and he was one of the first guardians to playtest gambit prime in the lore. Super interesting lore tab too, RIP Joxer

0:50 that is no random titan, that is joxer from the wither hoard Lore tab

Did anyone notice that the ships that were searching the wreckage of the ship the titan was using at the start were M3-D1 Valkyrie units? Exotic ships from Season of the Splicer.

Itd be crazy if savathun never lied to us. Like the first time we went to the alter, she told us a phew lies on purpose to make us think she'll tell us more lies on other visits. But then tells us only truths after the 1st visit

I have to say, Deep Dives are one of the coolest seasonal activities, the secrets, the combat, the little water zones... Super cool.

as someone who has seen the leaks these videos are so fun to watch

Something i noticed and think we should pay attention to... Look at Asha, notice the 2 small taken looking spots. One above her eye slightly to the left, the other next to her eye on the far right... there was no additional spots nor growth after this weeks mission conclusion... So... 1) either its a break in the character model. 2) Asha is slowly being taken like Sloan and something we might want to be concerned about.

In terms of Asha’s week one dialogue, it may be referring to Rhulk and his kind as the first victims of the Witness. After all, Rhulk is the first disciple of the Witness.

Did the pyramid ship fleet show up at Titan during the collapse to fight Ahsa or us? Given the Final Shape trailer, I feel that the Oasis is the inside of the Traveler itself. Everyone who has died in the Light is in there, waiting to flood out and battle the Witness.

1:20 was the Phili experiment that moving with the astronauts? There was a movie like that where a lady got fused with some of the internal wiring of the ship. Not lethal, they were removed with surgery-but god it was nightmare fuel

So Byf, I have a theory.. and it ties into the fact that Bungie decided to tease us with the Final Shape from State of Play. Why the hell would Bungie release a teaser showing us the potential inside of the Traveler when we're only 2 weeks into Season of the Deep? When Ahsa mentioned nomads travelers, and a city of light. It got me thinking, We know very little about the Traveler and it's origins. Lore books before have been very vague on the subject. What if the Traveler is indeed not just a machine but THE city of light that Asha is referencing and what if the Witness was one of the first Guardians? We know the Witness can directly control the Taken, because it's power is darkness so the Witness could have also been the first guardian that got corrupted by darkness, and essentially became the essence we know as the Taken? These nomads Ahsa is referring to could have been the ihabitants of this city of light and revolted against the Witness effectively banishing it from their world. It could explain why we see Ikora talking to Cayde-6 who could be seemingly ressurected by the light inside the traveler explaining his return. This could answer why the Witness wanted the veil to open a portal between Neptuna and the traveler, not to mention the portal is completely made up of void. As that saying goes, you cannot have light without darkness and vice versa. The Veil could have been a way to wrench open the Traveler so that the Witness could seek revenge against the nomads who banished it. That's also a reason why I've been thinking that to defeat the ultimate darkness that we need to wield it. Sloan already does and sure it's deteriorating her but Sloane said her light is slowing the effect. What if the essence of the Taken is just corrupted light? It could explain why the Witness is so strong and is able to literally wield the strength it has because tha Taken essence could just be light of the Traveler corrupted by darkness. Guardians wield this light, just not to the extent that the Traveler is able to or these supposed nomads. Eramis referred to the Traveler as The Great Machine, but what if it is indeed the city of light that these Nomads founded? That also could explain the cutscene (can't remember which expansion but I think it was Beyond Light) That we Guardians see ourselves in a grassy field being greeted by our future self, aka the darkness. What if that these grasslands were a foresight into the traveler and we never realized it? Sorry for the wall of text but that damn Bungie teaser for final shape got me wildly theorizing.

I've seen the spoiler cutscene, I won't spoil anything but it's WILD lore wise. Like HUGE revalations

@4:45 did you see the slightly jerky movements of Sloane when she says she always completes the mission. Really hope she's not too far gone to save 🤞🏾🤞🏾🤞🏾

Ahsa definitely is a red herring on how we get taken as a class. It's been hinted at since Europa and now we see the beginning of how it's possible

On your note of contradictory points around 17:10, Savathun rarely tells outright lies, she much prefers omission, being nonspecific or manipulation. "The darkness created the witness" - Literal, the universal forces of darkness we've seen through stasis and strand led to the creation of the witness. We've seen other similar 'hive minds' created before. "The witness created the darkness" - lie of omission, the specific forces of darkness we've dealt with in Sol - hive and the worm gods, the taken, the disciples, the scorn, house salvation - have all directly or indirectly been created by the witness. "The shadow blessed [Rhulk's people]" - lie of nonspecificity, the witness blessed Rhulk, who is the last of his people, and by the Witness's viewpoint the obliteration of Rhulk's people was a blessing. "The light blessed [Rhulk's people]" - Literal, we know the traveller blessed them. If Savathun simply lied, you could ignore her. Instead she likes making webs of half-truths to draw people in and trap them.

I am sure now my theory of a timeline split at the red war is at play here. People forget we had a cut scene of the fucking sun exploding and VO talking about how we were too late, but funny thing is we did some shenanigans with Vex gates that expansion too, and if you go back and look at Cayde 6 his armor changes colors fucking randomly in that campaign, welp the new cayde we just saw had that same random armor color change, because he is prolly going back in time to stop the sun from splodin in the red war. That would mean we have a universe with a sun, and a timeline with no sun, legend of zelda style, but hopefully no random third timeline. A lot of what we are seeing helped me understand how humanity and life could go on without actual light though, and it is an ugly thing.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought of the Philadelphia Experiment. Can we talk about the lore tabs associated with this season's armor? While it details Sloane's survival it also shows how far Ghosts will go to protect their charges. Siochain, or however it's spelled, armed itself with shaving razors and even cut through a mess of Thralls. I want that as a Ghost Shell.

I'm going to get my lore group sifting through the altars again. The fact that there was an entry "The last city is not the last city" becoming relevant only after the expansion's end means those entries weren't meant for WQ alone. Hell I thought "The Taken King will rise again" was a nod to the reprised Kingsfall raid in season of the plunder. Ghosts of the Deep taught us no, in fact it is not 4th wall related. Xivu Arath actually tried to ressurect Oryx but failed because of us, thereby crossing that off the list.

Well, what Savathun said here matches perfectly with the leaked cutscene.

40k mentions in my byf video? Yes please! (Would love a 40k lore series)

I'm actually pretty mad cause of the recent leaks about witness origin, now no one will believe that i got similar idea before leaks

Last thing I was expecting with a 40K reference from byf.

Never heard of the Philadelphia experiment until just now

Wow, I didn't even notice that the taken incendior was Val Ca'our. Thought we put him to pasture at the end of his raid, but I suppose this raises a question that we may not be considering; can the power of taking raise the dead the same way the light can? I mean, I suppose it's not too far fetched an answer; the power of darkness is used to raise an eliksni into a scorn. But does the same hold true for the taken? Just how many taken have we been fighting that are "alive" in that they were alive before becoming taken? Most importantly, is anyone truly safe from being taken? Is death not even a way of stopping one's self from becoming taken?

Mention of sand/deserts came up number of times whenever Nine was involved: - At the end of the Prophecy dungeon, when Emmissary trolls Drifter showing him visions of only Light and only Dark worlds, she used phrase "Your feet find purchase in shifting sands". I believe even the description of those worlds was sort of "desertish" - Back when Gambit Prime was a thing, the Reckoning mission was set in dimension created inside that thing hauled by the Derelict (so it was Nine's creation). The dimension was essentially a vast, bleached out desert. Couple that with Eris and Drifter's remarks about the Leviathan during Season of Arrivals, symbol on Drifter's coin, and suddenly the idea of Ahsa being one of the Nine is super tempting, at least to me...

To me the first week of dialog reminds me of either Rhulks people or of Gor the God butcher from Marvel's people

I would love to hear Byf talk about 40k lore.

Blessed by the shadow- The Traveler's shadow when it arrived. Unanswered questions and rage- why does the Traveler always enlighten and extend life until it destroys itself? Then moves on to do it again? The sword logic is the other side of the coin as the Traveler's life gift. The Traveler feeds off the destruction and loss of life that comes with long life and wanting more. More knowledge, more life, and the eagerness to do anything to have more. Guardian resurrection, Ghosts, immortality, etc it's the closest thing to unending energy to siphon from death and paracausal timelines. The Traveler is on the same page as the Weeping Angels. That's my view.

My reticle designates Sloan as an enemy. Maybe just targeting the taken part.

The poor titan that got well mangled to his ship is joxer and this was t the first lore character we see due either that titan and goose thst got sliced and diced in the lightfall opening that was reed-7

If you saw the leaked witness origins he is talking about the society that melted toguether in order to become the witness thats who she is referring to

In the name of the Emperor….I’d die if I could have byf do 40K lore.

Man they did dirty to val cauor from the hardest boss to lowly taken boss

Sloan keeps saying "and i always complete the mission" they make a point of it. Definitely think its forshadowing, unless its something from the past im unaware of. Like maybe shes going to die or do something crazy in the end to "complete a mission" lol

I believe the witnesses people were nomads untill they got seed of hope from the trailer being blessed with light and they question the power that the have been given

Idk why but when ahsa was talking about a city of light and a silent god, the first thing i thought of was savathun and her throne world. As it is a city of light and currently (bc she’s dead) she is a silent god.

I’ve seen how the witness came to be and don’t worry I won’t spoil it but it will surprise you and explain why the smoke on it’s head has faces.

Traveler = Positive Energy = Cataclysm

Maybe the Witness was their version of The Speaker, it Witnessed The Traveller, tried to learn from it while the rest of its civilization crumbled under apathy and greed fuelled by eternal life

I LOVED the way the introduced Sloane. It felt so eerie as if it were a skinwalker

Since destiny is a universe where remote transmat is a thing without the other party's knowledge, this just opens up another plot hole for Amanda's death. She easily could've been transmatted up onto the HELM or something. She didn't sacrifice herself, she chose to die.

Feels like we may lose Sloane for good this season. Completing the mission sounds ominous

"the enemy of the witness is on Titan." What if it's not Ahsa, but Oryx? And then when they all come back they help us against The Witness?

We're going to Mars I think somebody said it best in a comment when they said they are taking stuff away from us and basically giving it back to us in a terrible $5 DLC by the form of battleground

I should have known you'd have a tendril in 40K lore

man im so sad iwatched the leaked cutscene, wonder which week it releases

There was a cutscene leaked about the witness

The reality warping was actually happening in the background of the returned leviathan and the glycon

Shoutout to byf for staying on top of spoilers in comments. I haven’t seen one yet.

So what I'm hearing is the Witness is just my salty ex but instead of dying its hair blue and spreading rumours it's trying to dominate the universe with it's will. Cool.

I wish this game was half as good as it's lore. I can listen to the lore for hours without an issue. I can play the game about 12 minutes before I run into some gigantic bullet sponge and completely loose interest in playing the game.

Look at sloane's ghost shell lore tab

The traveler was the witness’ ghost

Just do a search about it and you will see about the witness. Old news

I read the thumbnail and instally started watching the vídeo

Are we disregarding the leaked cutscene that explains the Witness’ origins and relationship with the Traveller?

the witness is associated with speaker

I think i know why the witness is so angry.

The Witch Queen was such a masterpiece. Savathun's conversations are still getting uncovered and speculated on after almost a year and a half of her end.

I really loved The Drifter in this first cutscene. He seems like the only one who is able to sympathise with the loneliness Sloane must have felt throughout her time on Titan

That's not just some poor titan, that's confirmed Joxer of the Gambit lore fame, just like how the Titan we see the Witness kill at the start of Lightfall was Reed-7 of the Trials Team. Also in the lore about the Joxxer dying and the moments leading up to him being fused to his ship and him dying his Final Death, we learn his pre Guardian, human name, Eric.

I have felt, for some time that the Witness's 'rage' is rather personal, it's 'obsession' with the Traveller and the Final Shape hints at this. The Witness cares nothing for it's 'Disciples' they are but tools in its campaign to reach and touch the Traveller.

You know, Savathun's two truths and two lies is executed very nicely to mirror prophecies. Where you have information right or wrong to act upon, but once the truth cones to light, every little piece cones together and makes sense. Its honestly impressive to see in real time like this.

The worry and caution in the drifters voice when he first sees sloane...

Posted this before fully watching lol. "This Witness was once mortal, its kind was blessed by the Light/Dark, just as your kind were. In the Light, these beings found power and knowledge, but they were not content. Power and knowledge turned to greed and despair. The Witness was forever changed." - Savathûn, Altar of Reflection

We actually know who the titan was And the name certainly rings a bell for those who played gambit prime Check the Akashic Revelation ship

i read somewhere that there's a lore tab explaining that the "poor titan" sent into the traveler's portal is actually Joxxer, and that the titan that got sashimi'd by the Witness in the LF cutscene is actually Reed-7, from Shayura and Aisha's fireteam as seen in recent Trials of Osiris gear

Fun fact: if you read the new trials stuff you learn that the titan that dies during the first major cutscene of lightfall is actually Reed-7 the titan mentioned in all the trials armour and weapons. He died attacking the witness during the initial assault against the witness. Poor fella

I think Joxer's death is sad but stupid. He could have left his ghost literally anywhere else and be revived. This even would be more fitting for a cutscene where everyone is conducting experiments and trying to figure out what the hell is going on and the floating ghost beside his twisted remains would give us more ominous outlook at so familiar concept of guardians dying all the time and give their deaths some weight other than final death that doesn't occur that much with ingame side-characters. But anyway, at least we got a peek at the peak of Titan science right here lol

In 40k terms, the titan is the snotling and the traveler is merely a big shokk attack gun. (Space orks have a weapon that combines short range teleporter with vaccum cleaner, and use small quasi-goblin men as ammunition. If lined up correctly, having the space where your brain is supposed to be suddenly occupied by a terrified little goblin is understandably lethal to all involved)

I wish Bungie hid important cutscenes in the code better. This whole season’s reveal was spoiled already

This is starting to feel a lot like the dark souls community’s favorite phrase: “This is all Gwyn’s Fault”

You know, considering how royally pissed off (if misguided) someone such as Eramis got about the Traveler, it's not hard to imagine someone (in this case, the Witness) getting even more angry about slights, real or imagined.

It seems very interesting that the origins of the Witness mirror the very same struggles Zavala has been going through for some time. Zavala, once a pillar of devotion to the Light and the tenants of being a Guardian, now finds himself shouldering so much doubt and confusion in response to the Traveler being utterly silent and largely inactive. First, it was the slow realization that the universe isn't as black and white as we initially believed, and that the Darkness is as much a tool as the Light. Then it was the revelation of Savathun and her brood being blessed with the Light by the Traveler. Add on his grief for Amanda Holliday's death, and her not being resurrected (yet) when she was someone who was certainly worthy of being a Guardian, and you have a Zavala at his lowest point of confidence in his mission, becoming more and more frustrated and melancholy by the Traveler's silence and lack of guidance, the same feelings that plunged the Witness fully into Darkness to the point of completely rejecting the Traveler as a source of chaos and pain in the universe. Everyone, including Zavala and the Witness, is trying to understand what the meaning of everything is, and they once looked to the Traveler for answers, only to be met with silence. With the Witness launching a crusade against the Traveler, fueled by spite, rage and hatred, the question then becomes what Zavala will do instead. What meaning will he carve out for himself? Will he adopt similar views as the Witness and reject the Traveler? Or something else? Time will tell. Zavala has always been the pillar of what being a Guardian meant, and his journey and struggles are testaments to our own evolution as Guardians. The fate of Zavala will be such a major defining moment, especially as we near the end of the road.

Minor spoilers (although you can literally see the thing I’m about to say in the game at the minute) Kelgorath is becoming the new Taniks, what is this the 4th time he’s came back although now he’s taken instead of being a dark blade.

The 'Titan in metal' could also be a reference to Titanfall 2's Effect and Cause death of Major Anderson. Here, he was time travelling and eventually his own position crossed that of a concrete floor that wasn't there in his time. There were already hints to the portal and time travel, this could also reinforce that.

Ahsa gave us a clue for sure, something that could save us hides buried under the sand but question is what could that be and where as well

Seeing the leaks weeks early, then seeing people speculate about what's happening is truly a strange feeling. I think people will either be super happy or super meh'd by the Witness' backstory.

16:40 I think the thing we'll be learning might be that, despite Savathun's commentary being seemingly contradictory, they might both be true from some perspectives. For example, the Witness giving birth or being birthed by the Darkness could both be true. They seem to be mutually exclusive and totally incompatible with each other, unless you consider a different perspective. What if the people the Witness came from were some of, if not the first sentient, intelligent species to exist in the universe, and they stumbled across the Darkness in some limited, primordial fashion and decided to embrace it. The Witness was born from that in the sense of gaining a new purpose, to bring about the Final Shape, and the Darkness was born from the Witness by it unleashing it on the universe? In that same way, perhaps the Witness' people were blessed by the Light and the Traveler, pushing their species into a technological utopia, and then at some later point in time they were also "blessed" by the Darkness, corrupting them into producing the omnicidal Witness. Which, as a fellow Warhammer fan, has me thinking they might have gone down the path of the Eldar as they birthed Slaanesh. Interesting stuff.

This is something I realized while watching this video, but has nothing to do with the video. Have you noticed how important the sunsetted locations were? Mars held the location of Rasputin and the information for The Veil. Titan held the location of Ahsa and Oryx's body. What if these locations were taken for a reason. Obviously, we know Bungie sunsetted them to reduce the game bulk, but what if all of them were given an important reason to disappear. That makes me wonder what Mercury and Io could be hiding.

Just had a thought about the two lies and truths, “the taken king will return” and looking at the new dungeon seems like that one may not be true now considering everything that’s happened. Thank you for reading

I don't know who needs to see this, but anyone who was expecting a continuation of the Veil Questline that launched last week, go back to veil contaiment from the map launcher and there are two new logs you can decrypt, nothing on the map or quest screen shows that there is new stuff is happening there.

Bah, I should have watched the whole thing before I started writing. I assumed this week had the new cinematic based on the title, so I was launching from that. Watch out, people who avoid spoilers. There is a leaked cinematic based threat lurking. You'll know when you see it in game. In the meantime, this discussion is one huge danger zone for tempting having info from it dropped on you sooner than you might have wanted.

Sometimes things are in plain sight.. Whats the deal with the smoke or whatever that is coming out of the Witness head?

Oh you’re reaaaaaaally good at decoding lore. This comment will make sense later!

That titan that fused with his ship... Event Horizon al over, WE DONT NEED EYES WHERE WERE GOING. Then again no way that movie is not a 40k Prequel as in Warp drive without Gellershields,

The portal is not in the Traveller, right? It's in front of it based on all the images I've seen.

How can I cook ahsa? She looks mighty delicious brotha

What if the witch Queen's lies were that She's actually telling the truth? and she only told us there were two lies.

"In the Light, these beings found power and knowledge, but they were not content. Power and knowledge turned to greed and despair." - Bungie, on the Destiny community, probably.

I unfortunately have seen the leaked cutscene making its way around RU-vid. I don't want to violate Byf's spoiler guidelines so I won't disclose details or links. All I'll say is Byf is gonna fill his figurative diaper when it's shown in game.

If what Savathun said was true, I wonder if the Witness is a culmination of all of the Witness's People combined into one body? Might make a lot of sense considered the floating heads above the Witness's head and the voices layered on top of one another whenever the Witness talks. Might be reaching, but just keep it in mind.

All of those truths might not be contradictory. The witness' people may have been blessed by the light via the traveler. Frustrations over the silent god may have allowed them to be "blessed" by the darkness. Said darkness could then be assumed to have "given birth" to the witness. The witness would then be able to create his own darkness legion, what we assumed to be the nature of the darkness before we came to a better understanding of the light and dark. They can all be true if we dont assume them all to be literal word for word, one to one.

Ahsa is describing the witnesses home-world and backstory

I have this vague idea..... Given the objective of this season's dungeon, and Sloane's current condition, could she maybe claim a certain vacant Throne, especially given Toland's amd Xivu Arath's frustration regarding that matter.... (Sorry for the vague allusions, trying to avoid the most blatant spoilers)

I love the implication of history between Sloane and Drifter. I hope we get even more of that.

I am just kind of amused by the moment of panic Byf probably had with Drifter rather quickly going "Anyway, transmat firing!"

everyone acting like they didnt watch that spoiler with the witnesses origin. OOOOK