Destiny 2 Lore - The Witness hates us. Now we know why... 

The Witness wakes up EXTRA early to be a hater

literarly lol

The Witness is basically an entire race in one entity, so if the Guardian has a million haters they are probably all Witness’ alt accounts lmao

​​@@mystic3345The Witness be like, "You are what you eat," and eat a kilogram of materialized hatred and spite

"I wake up, I breath, I hate. You know who I really hate? Those god damn guardians"

even gave us a pyramid ship on Europa, it responds to what we want it to do.

Had it offered us Resonance from the start things may have been different for many guardians.

The witness:yuh huh Guardian: nuh huh The witness: yuh huh!

I'm going to keep it a buck 50 with you dog we get an option at the end I'm choosing the witness

G: I'll take those ice powers W: so your joining me G:..... W: your joining me right?

Think it’s 10 now. The Guardian’s reached double digits!

@@jsmaster4779give it 5 months

Oh what the heck, I was thinking that today Who would win: A multi billion year old eldritch entity set on reducing the universe into its personal ideal vision Some person who's practically a 9 year old given a few guns

@@jsmaster4779he’s a big boy now.

I totally forgot we are preteen guardians. Holy crap!

The witness isn't wondering. He litteraly gave us stasis in hopes that we would join him

@Blackarot. yes, we were offered the darkness, but we twisted it for ourselves. No other being wields both, only one at a time. I'm sure the witness thought we'd take up the darkness and reject the light, killing our ghost to sever the connection.

​@@ZhaloSupercell1It's more complicated than that

-“Fuck You, That’s Why.”

I mean keep in mind the Traveler is willingly giving us what the Witness wants. To wield light and dark at the same time. I feel like that just adds more that it's gonna hate us even more.

We are also quite literally the child of the Traveler, the biggest enemy of the Witness. “The universe makes us all victim and perpetrator of its infinite cruelty”, but the Traveler more than any is the biggest protagonist of this suffering. We are the embodiment of the pain of the universe, the Witness hates not only us but also what we represent, everything the Witness wants to end basically.

He probably also really hates humanity now because they've interacted with both the Traveler and the Veil and aren't coming to the same conclusion as him.

Or, it could be that it’s not a truth at all in the first place. The closest thing we’d get would be a paradox

​@@davida1229 To some entity that craves absolute order in the universe, an entity that "makes its own fate" is chaos incarnate, and anathème. By any means necessary, the Witness would see everything under the Traveler tormented before snuffing out that life, a most sadistic evil trifle. And that's if we, the Guardians, do not see the merit in their "final shape" and come to serve them to that end.

​@@SelecaoOfMidasexactly in the unveiling the gardener was the entity that was upset with life game results and decided to alter the way it played without consulting with winnoer the ender the true final shape who accepts how the life game played. The Witness is causing the chaos the instability just like the gardener did. The guardian the winnoer unfortunately is to stop it. The Witness know all this and it is trying to prevent the guardian the winnoer from waking up to its strength by fair and cruel methods. Yet the winnoer/Guardian still stand

Well it’s back so

@@SypitzIt never should’ve left soooo……..

​@@achryllic2607 I mean at the time it was for technical reasons. Not much one can do about that

We got Grasp of Avarice now though

@@zdude0127 Well that's wrong because when Bungie deleted content I paid for I returned the favor by not playing Destiny or any future Bungie product.

I would love it if we got the witness to swear

@@shrodingersgat2754 like if Zavala, Mara, or someone else was giving the witness a monologue and out of no where the witness spurts “BITCH you think I give a fuck?”

@@shrodingersgat2754I mean, the closest we got was the Witness literally screaming “ENOUGH!” at Calus cause he got sick of Calus’s shit. And then, of course, we got to see the Witness (or at least his Shadow) transform into something much bigger and much more frightening, enough to make Calus literally tear up in fear.

​@twelved4983 actually, his nose bled. He wasn't teary: but he sure as hell was scared as fuck.

Why does this read like a Handsome Jack line from Borderlands 2?

Best I can do is 3 min cooldowns and spike grenades. 😂

Lmao

"So you'll join me cause I have more power?" "Nah, you're just flavor of the month for us in terms of powers and we'll kill you because you'll make a cool gun."

​@@aka_ghxstHAHAGA

@@urazz7739imagine bro says if you side with me I’ll give you the raid exotic with no grinding.

I will always stan for the lore team. their ability to turn plotholes into plotpoints is second to NONE. This whole subject used to be a plothole: "why didn't the witness just kill us all in a second?" and then they made this banger.

The real life example is not far in the past. The third reich tried to inflict this terror on several people

It feels like they borrowed that line from Final Fantasy XIV, the last line of a villain. I won't say more than that, but it feels like a "Hey mind if I copy your homework". Not to say it's a bad line. It's definitely *COLD*.

That is likely why Nezerec was the vanguard of the collapse (and likely the Whirlwind as well) it is his job to utterly _break_ those who the traveler has uplifted.

If the Witness wanted something done quick he sent Rhulk, if he wanted someone to suffer he sent Nezarec. We packed them both.

@@rampage0092 which probably makes him even more pissed.

@@bohba13 I’m sure, but it’s ok, we’re gonna pack him too

Not before we pack our own Ghost...after Lightfall...it feels like a liability more than an Ally...oh hell...Theory: Thats EXACTLY what we do...The time jumping we did with Osiris, the time we find OUR grave, how does a Guardian truly die again? They lose their Ghost and die one last time and weve seen just how easly our Ghost were taken over by the Witness...I think the Final Shape will be our Guardians final resting place because in the end we will have to destroy our Ghost or it sacrifices itself while it still has the capability to do so of its own accord to finish the Witness, and likely so deep within the realm the Witness creates, we dont escape.

You have a really low bar for voice acting and editing that is "so good". His production value has increased since he started, but he's not a professional voice actor, and I'm pretty sure he hires editors

​@MrNoble1997 it's good for a non professional, and someone passionate about their content, get off your high horse

@@MrNoble1997 I FOUND THE GUY WHO HATES GOOD THINGS

I'd say the voicing when the guy gets angry at the Traveler for not doing anything is where that shines. For a non-professional, that's some really voice acting.

@MrNoble1997 No one is paying him to put a little extra spice into his readings. He could have just read it in his normal voice, but he didn't. For me to do any level of voice acting would be massively stepping out of my comfort zone! He did a great job, and it sounded fantastic. He should be applauded for putting in the extra effort. I feel sorry for you, that you can't see that. Maybe try pulling your head out of your own ass and appreciate the effort someone put into a free production for your benefit. Plus , it smells much nicer out here.

I am SO GLAD that I was not the only one who made this connection. "For your arrogance, you will drift on my sea for an eternity; never again will you reach the shores of Ithaca. You will suffer. I want you to suffer much more."

You’d think in that whole species there’d be atleast one therapist but I guess not lmao

​@@gagekellstrom3978To be fair, they were either "trimmed" off, coerced, or ran away PDQ before the "consensus" to create the Witness (RS).

@@SelecaoOfMidas exactly, it's not just a hivemind of people in their natural state, there are heavy implications that anything that wasn't final shape-related in the people that became the Witness was left out. Basically the Anti-Spiral from Guren Lagann

@@xXx_Regulus_xXx Holly Fug Thats it Witness IS GASH DARN IT ANTI-SPIRAL from Gurren Lagan!

​@@xXx_Regulus_xXx what happened to what was "rejected" for lack of a better word

Someone should give her a round of applause or give her a huge hug for these results.

All the *[Redacted]* parts just after she gushes on Mara in another report especially get me. ^^

Yep. I knew this would be a part of the video before even listening. Great setup

Venextron knows the original story

@@Ben-zg8xk him and Myrzir, definitely give his channel a look too

Yeah, his analysis was absolutely what helped spur me to my final thoughts on the Winnower vs Witness question. I'm so glad he jumped in and took a big look at it because his thoughts are such a great reinforcement to my own understanding of things...

The audacity

And just you wait. Ill crease every single jay in his collection for the shit he started and has done

NOT THE JAYSS!?

How ghastly!

Oh my

If we ever get that destiny show, I'd like to see him get a role. Byf is a seriously good va

That'd be awesome

Listen to the end of the new trailer, sound like the witness was yelling

@@kingrushy4533 I saw, I smiled when it happened :)

Yeah I see it way more like this than I do like the whole "jealous ex" thing people keep saying.

That’s a much more poetic perspective than ‘jealous ex’, much more interesting too

On the contrary, that really cuts down on the complexity and impressiveness and scale of a story of primordial forces being bent by an ancient eldritch being's will. The simplification of this conflict just shows how out of their depth Bungie's current writers are in grand, sweeping space epics - they have to reduce a nigh-godlike ancient entity down into to the equivalent of a jealous ex on a rampage, rather than attempting to go anywhere alien and hard to conceptualize but display it understandably for others. It's also why the Vex have been sidelined so hard, because with the current established Vex lore they fall perfectly into something so foreign and alien to us that trying to write for them is difficult if you can't warp your mind to view things from a perspective close to theirs. I don't blame the writers for these. It's a tough task, and not everyone can incorporate extremely difficult and foreign concepts into their writing.

@@trashjashfor sure but maybe there’s more to come out of the Witness. We heard “voices” in Shadowkeep and Beyond Light that wanted to give us Darkness, even saying it was thanks for enduring for so long under the Light. It was as if they viewed us as kindred spirits, and we know not everyone who makes up the Witness had the same ideas. We might see more varied opinions from the Pyramids or even the Darkness itself

Tbf the traveller has just dipped at 2 other species instead of helping them and correct me if I’m wrong rasputin crippled the traveller to stop it from leaving us too

I've been saying over the years, that the Darkness (later, the Witness) was starting to sound more and more like a jilted Ex. Been saying that since Beyond Light. This lore is only reinforcing that belief.

​​@@empiyrr2133 Rasputin activated neither the Abhorrent Imperative nor the Loki Crown protocols. They were possibilities during the Collapse, but they were not used. The Traveler chose to stay

That's what I was thinking too, they're a bunch of space assholes compacted into one who couldn't fathom that destroying the universe and remaking it in their image would drive away the traveler. I would love to see the guardian cuss them out mid monologue.

That's what I had in mind as well when we had the cutscene of the Witness absolutely losing their shit at Calus. By indulging in it's wrath to the point it not only shouted at their subordinate, but quickly used fear and terror on him, it shatters any idea that the Witness was anywhere close to what the Winnower and Gardener are, it's no longer a "god" but a higher power of being that is so self indulgent in their goals.

Yeah because I was thinking this has to be out of jealousy or envy that the Traveler sees the Guardian or even Humanity as worthy as the Precursors felt when they first discovered it. Honestly you see how both civilizations find the Traveler in similar ways on a lone planet but for US it seemed like the Traveler WANTED us to notice it in our Solar system from how it deliberately avoided Earth until we became aware of its presence, like c’mon it knew we were there according to lore it seemed like it would get close to Earth and then go to another part of the system kinda like a pattern, the Witness found it half buried by coincidence… yes it blessed the Precursors with gifts too, out of maybe obligation from them helping it be freed, Whereas it looked to Humanity as its worthy saviors in its dying breath instead of fleeing as it did to the Witness.

After all, during Shadowkeep the Witness specifically mocks the death of Cayde to show how weak the light is. Even if it was a random event, the Witness definitely took advantage of it.

That's a good shout. The ascendant plane being used as the pyramids defense barrier

Absolutely perfect response

Even better : Badger's "Cope Seethe" clip

In fact -- once Contest Mode is off, Im gonna try and complete the Raid and standing in front of banner placement of Final Encounter - blare that video into in-game VC off my phone 100% Volume

Why does God need a Starship?

It's actually presented more as Consistency is inevitable vs I like change The winnower never realy claims the final shape to be its favorite thing merely something that it sees as inevitable

Swag messiah 🔥

Best reply so far lol!

That be the raid soundtrack😂

Rhulk and Nezarec already did that, so...

​@dropkick3024 The raid soundtrack being all Witnesses' SoundCloud raps would be hilarious!

Was looking for someone else who saw that.

Also, The Guardian: It took me 10 years to understand what's going on and now I'm standing in front of it, I know what I must do.... *'GHOST, DROP THE VAULT!'* [The Witness is crushed underneath the weight of 500 weapons, Telesto laughs]

​ [Telesto Laughs] Chilling.

and then your transmat actually goes wrong and all you hear when arriving is.... hive bring a sword

Witness: "The unibrow stays." Us: *"So you have chosen death."*

oh god now I have the mental image of a titan leaping at the witness thundercrash-style with a razor clenched in his fist and shaving cream in the other, aiming for that unibrow

​@@thorveim1174 we should get chat gpt or some ai to generate that photo

Brother, that uni is fabulous. What are you on about? 🤣

​@@thorveim1174 Hunters get the Spectral single blade razor and Warlocks got the Follicle Bomb after shave. Let's get it, Guardians. 😅

👁️ 👁️

My character is a deaf exo, if she wants to make a move on him she needs holoprojectors and maybe a parade or he won't get it.

@@nerag7459 Well that's one creative way to canonize subtitles!

@@legenddarkrai I play at night with the sound off so as not to wake my kids. I missed the whole 'song of savathuun' development because of this.

@@nerag7459 headphones are a thing

Honestly, I feel like her character is the only one of the good ones written from Lightfall. She should have been our Neomuna Vendor. It felt weird that Nimbus was our contact right at start outside the building, and the one messing with the Ishtar Collective Orbital Weapon Satellite instead of Quinn or one of the other people like Tse Jingye, or Viragni "Sid" D'Sydney (BUT NOT Sam Moleyn, he totally has like Sociopath vibes, with side of trying to slip something in my ether mug.). They should have also killed off Nimbus at the end of the Campaign, by Calus directly. Since after losing Rohan earlier in the campaign just to make the stakes feel like something without a defender, Neomuna would then depend on Guardians and Caiatl's forces (feels weird none of her forces stayed at the end to help keep the Shadow Legion in check) while waiting for new Cloudstriders made. And so we wouldn't have to suffer with his VO during Public Events sounding like some annoying teen sportscaster.

We definetly need to see cutscene where Witness is making ''I am inevitable and final shape is here'' speech, and our Guardian shoot Witness wounding it and that makes it loose its dam cool so dam much that it rages on how we dare damage a god.

It wanted to ruin us make us a desiple and break both humantiy and the traveler spirit it wanted to make us the ermis of humantiy

Well, Guardians turning on the Traveler would also be turning on Humanity as a whole, which covers one point of driving hopelessness into Humanity. I also feel like the Witness *very* personally wanted our Guardian specifically because of how extraordinary we are, having been THE ones to kill Hive gods and more, that we probably would have been next in line to become its next Disciple or something similar. Even if stripped of the Light and replaced entirely with Darkness, our Guardian probably would've been one scary ass mofo. We probably would've filled the role that Calus did, except Calus was kind of a "settling for less" situation because there was nothing, no one like Nezarec or Rhulk anywhere in Sol. That's just my insight though

@@legenddarkrai yes, I think it also simply that the Witness hates us for what we have done to his disciples, we "slowed" his progression in some way, so yeah. I really like your point of view in the first sentence👍. I think that Bungie nailed the two main antagonists in the last two years (Savathun and The Witness), if they are very different, at the end of the day, the fact that they pushed us over the limits of what's good and what's bad...and made us discuss our bond with the Traveler is really fascinating. I would take these villains over Orix-like villains all day long.

The Witness likes causing despair and confusion, especially by brainwashing our own and making us fight amongst ourselves. The Young Wolf has become one of Humanity's greatest heroes, so if The Witness could successfully corrupt the chosen one into our very own Darth Vader, it would be tragic.

Wasn't the speaker bullshitting?

​@@k9vendettathewolfofmordor529The last one was confirmed to be. Others would be possible, but unconfirmed.

@@k9vendettathewolfofmordor529 I’m not sure, some people thinks so, but from what I know there is wiggle room in. What he says to Ghaul could be a lie to Ghaul or it could just mean the connection is one way. It could be like listing to a Radio or watching tv, the Traveler has things it wants people to understand/know so it talks, but it may not be aware of who, if anyone, can hear. So it talks, but is unable to hear.

I agree wholeheartedly. An idea I had that makes it even funnier, The light uses Bomb Logic, The dark uses Sword Logic. What happens when you mix a bomb and a sword? Gun Logic.

The Final Shape, as defined by The Witness and its precursors has nothing directly to do with Light or Darkness though. They are only tools beeing used to achieve it. The precursors thought that the Final Shape was an Blissfull perfect endstate of the entire universe, where there only exists the absolute minimum of suffering, and the maximum of Happiness/ enlightenment, while the Witness simplified it to mean that nothing can happen or even exist without its will. i.e. the Final shape, no matter what definiton of it is used, is an worldstate, not an entity

@@centimanj8916 fair enough, I just thought it’d be cool if the Guardians were the final shape. It seems like it’d be fitting.

@@Ryodren That or swords that create explosions when you swing them which sound pretty cool as a Guardian. Might need to get rezzed by our Ghost after every swing, but I Imagine it'll look cool. 🤣

​@@Ryodrenthe only gun that I think could be the final shape is telesto, the amount of times that gun has crashed the universe would make the Witness jealous

I think you are right, but also wrong, because the answer seems to be simply both. The Witness is a gestalt being made of a legion of *mere mortals* -- people -- that were motivated by malice and grief. The Witness wants the Traveler to grieve, yes. But it also wants those touched by the Light to suffer, like Poseidon wanted Odysseus to suffer, for his insolence and hubris. It wants us to suffer its hatred for its deep personal satisfaction, as a being made of hateful mortals; it wants us to suffer because that suffering proves a point to The Traveler. It wants to show "Their suffering is just as much your fault as it is my fault. I could end them now, but I choose to show you their anguish, such is the chaos you've sown." And it would seem this is exactly why Nezarec, "The Final God of Pain", was a perfect fit for one of The Witness' many Disciples. I believe The Witness chooses to sow despair and confusion among the Light-touched in the same way the Joker likes to kill and torture the righteous, just to prove a point. It does this especially by brainwashing our own heroes and making us fight amongst ourselves. Receiving betrayal is a deep form of suffering. That's why it tries to pry the player away with talk of "Salvation" and coaxing with the addictive power of Stasis. We see this in the Dark Future timeline. The Young Wolf has become one of Humanity's greatest heroes, so if The Witness could successfully corrupt the "chosen one" into Destiny's very own Darth Vader, usurping the Vanguard and destroying us from within, it would be tragic. And it would prove The Witness' points.

Titan is everybit the brute and powerhouse as a tormemter in hand to hand

No wonder they tried to recruit us first under the guise of it being "our salvation". Now it's gloves off time.

Fakers, god with imperfect is no god. God that can be compared to other is by no means Singular. But fakers create deceit, lowering the standard, warping your previous understanding. Makes it seem less.

He was a warlock. I think he just started playing Titan for a charity goal or something of the sort

The Witness may actually (incorrectly) think of itself as the Winnower, when in reality it is simply the knife.

If the winnower ends up being the one to kill the species that became the witness it would be very satisfying to see... And right in a way you know? The final shape doesn't need to be forced eventually everything will end this universe is just one long game of life between the gardener and the winnower never needed to do anything but wait.. They never needed to force the final shape