Lets Talk Destiny 2, Final Shape & Destiny 3 - ft. Byf 

Just want to point out that during the sit down Joe did he said “we’re holding things close to our chest with this one.” And “you’ll have new things to fight and new ways to fight them”. So make of that what you will.

hey byf i reinstalled destiny 2 & hundreds of women flooded my dms, they said "wow, do you main solar titan??" at first i was afraid (i do not talk to women) Then, I began to understand this is the power of destiny 2, the game. This is what Bungie has been working towards all these years

If destiny 3 is real, bungie BETTER NOT start it like d2 where all the good quality of life aspects of D1 were gone and slowly implemented into D2… craftable weapons off the rip, Prismatic available, 250k glimmer cap, no trash weapons with one perk slot at the start (guns like OG scathlocke) D3 NEEDS to release with all the D2 QoL off the rip. No questions asked. Period.

About the discussion at 13:00 , the preorder subclass skipping fusion rifle has had pink in it's colours, along with all the other sub class colours since the announcement.

lol just yesterday I thought about the possibility of a creator chat episode dropping due to the TFS stream, thank u these are really nice to listen to

PRISMATIC was definitely in the cards before August, I just don't think it was ready for a reveal by then and they needed more time to get it out the door. Prismatic may have been the reason they delayed because they still didn't have it fully fleshed out.

Joe Blackburn said a while ago that they were holding a good portion of TFS close to their chest. There's no way they did all of this in just a few months. More likely they were using those extra time to polish the game.

I hope if D3 does come along they keep class identity since that’s such a fundamental part of destiny

When it all ends, will you 2 do a podcast covering the entire first saga of Destiny? Like a hindsight review on whether it was all worth it, all of the expansions / seasons / DLC across the 10 years? Would you go back to 2014 and get into Destiny again? When you weigh up everything, would you recommend it to any family or friends to get into? That would be an interesting debate to see.

Think about it: We were crashing into a failed demo of Prismatic by Nezarec when we raided him. Poor guy was trying to fix the damn thing but we killed him delaying the Prismatic release.

Don't forget that Bungie once said that ghorn wouldn't return to D2...

They didn’t magically come up with prismatic in 3 months. They just needed more time for it all to come together fully. 3 months isn’t that long.

So happy Byf made the point of restoring the sunset content. I would be totally fine with a total reset in a D3 if it meant that all of D2's campaigns were playable like how D1 is now. Preservation of those stories is something I don't alot of Destiny players care about enough. The Red War is what made me the Destiny fan I am today.

I agree so much with the idea of fighting alongside characters. It only happened during the Red War and Splicer. It felt good to be on the field with the Vanguard and Mithrax. More of that please!

You guys are dead-on with what I would need from a Destiny 3 to make it worthwhile. Here’s my list: - Allies on missions (with dialogue) - I’d love to see more fleshed out planets. More open ended map design instead of just the closed off zone type layout. We’ve been teased Old Chicago for years now, we’ve got some Jovians I still want to see, Triton has GIANT SPIDERS, we still haven’t found that colony of pacifist Guardians, Vex Dyson Sphere, need I say more? - Deeper ship dynamics. The HELM could be the template for our interstellar starship. Vault, crafting, maybe test room. - Other races, not all of them hostile. - Deeper weapon customization. One of the things that annoyed me when D2 launched was mods on weapons. They should have been the perks and sights that can either roll on weapons or are more universal attachments we can see on our weapon.

Timelines for development are measured in years for games of this size. If I had to guess at a timeline, Prismatic probably began planning not long before Witch Queen, where they realized the needed to update the light subclasses to 3.0 to make the end goal work. They've probably been in prototyping it throughout Witch Queen, and gathering information about the 3.0 light subclasses to inform the design, drop Strand with Lightfall and begin the bulk of the dev work on Prismatic, while also taking in the lessons of Light 3.0 and Strand, and just needed more time and polish the final product. Honestly it feels more like Bungie should be on a 1 and a half year content cycle, but unfortunately financials for the execs and shareholders are done by quarters and years and they want returns now.

Random observation: The reflection of Byf's monitors cast on his glasses always makes it look like he's got purple eye shadow on.

Byf is completely right there’s no possibility they made this in a few months and then implement it into the whole campaign etc there’s just no chance

The class item they showed on the Titan had star eaters scales perk and ophidians so a Titan had a perk from a hunter and a warlock Also when byf mentioned worm husk on titans being a possible I audibly cursed My wife said what.. I explained and she too audibly cursed lmao

a point on the gateways somewhere in the reef 1:17:48: in the new whisper reprised mission, if you go up to the vex portal in the mission you can see a different image from what it originally was(vault of glass) it has now changed to a purple foggy place that looks to me looks like somewhere in the reef. could these 2 places be linked?

To the people saying "They came up with Prismatic because Pre-orders are low." That makes literally no sense, it's not possible for them to do in this short period of time. I also believe that we are still getting the Red Subclass either at the end of the Campaign or it wil at least be hinted at. Prismatic is a perfect distraction to keep something like that a surprise.

I have to agree with Byf on the whole introduction of Trascendence* on the dev timeline. It was definitely in the works befofe the delay thing but they didnt wanted to show it, when the lay offs began I remember the director coming forward with a video on his own explaining whats gonna happen and I fully remember addressing TFS reveals. "TFS is the culmination of light/dark saga and we know we haven't said much because we are still hiding cards under our sleeves" And that's what I want to believe that it was the subclass and new enemies. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eSJDyAIOk2c.htmlsi=hMZIn2DJZdRcp8I5 6:09

Bungie didn’t show it because it wasn’t In a good enough state to show it. It’s possible it’s part of why it was delayed. There’s no way they could’ve made that in 3 months. It’s a few months away so I would hope it was good enough to show now

NEW EPISODE LETS GO

I have to disagree with one point. I think not putting Well on prismatic will end up making Welllocks that are locked to Well permanently locked. It would have been nice to have Well, but have the class grenade and other weaker options so we can run well, but still use other stuff if Bungie isn’t getting rid of it or greatly reducing its efficacy.

I think that during the TFS reveal stream back in August they already had Prismatic and the Dread planned out and maybe even started, but that they weren't complete and they weren't sure if they'd be able to complete them in time, then they got the extra 3 months and that gave them enough time to actually get them done. I think this specifically because they only showed 2 of the Dread, the new Light Supers, and said straight out that we weren't getting a new subclass, which idc what anyone says, Prismatic IS a new subclass. Another reason that I think this specifically about the Dread is because 2 of them are reskinned Psions, which I assume was done specifically due to time constraints whereas every other Dread has a newish character model(I think the one with the blades is a reskinned Dreg or Vandal, but could be wrong as Bungie actually told us that the Psion ones are reskins). The People that think that they got all of that done within the 3 month delay window are seriously reaching on that one. I'm not a game dev, but I know how much time goes into things like that and it would take quite a bit longer than 3 months. All together the Prismatic Subclass alone would take at least 8 or 9 months to build, test, and reiterate.

The idea that bungie just whipped up prismatic and the dread within the past 9 months is the epitome of gamer brain rot on steroids.

What I really like about prismatic is that you seem to be in this middle space between light and dark, and that's reflected in the powers you have access to, but if you NEED more out of either the light or dark as kit you have to lean into it i.e go put on the actual subclass. You have to leave the middle space and inhabit one or the other for a while.

Following up on the companion idea from byf. If that can happen then that also means we could get actural guardian like bosses. Like imagine you get a bounty to hunt down an enemy thats been affecting city supply lines. You track them down only to discover a person and not just any person buy a rogue lightbearer. And you enter a boss fight. Would be cool

The point about having characters play alongside you is fucking brilliant we need this

Thanks to your channel helped mine grow a little. Ty man

It always surprises me how much Byf looks like a Disney character. Definitely not in a bad way either

I think people need to rein in their expectations of the Dread being a whole faction of enemies. I think they're most likely going to be small but impactful encounters between fighting established factions. Kind of like how tormentors ambush you while not necessarily being part of whatever faction is present. I hope I'm wrong but

1:22:00 hot take(?) Savathun having a hand in everything gets old, I get she's a manipulator/trickster, but her possibly having a scheme behind everything gets annoying/tiring, she is a good character tho

Great video/podcast guys, I always look forward to these

i personally think that the new things didn't reach a certain level of polish and they would release trailers to show them to build more hype towards the original release of the final shape but the lay offs messed everything up

Byf's voice is paid actor. "Umbra"..."Thunderment"... "Paracausal energies"

Here to listen

Anyone who thinks Prism subclass was last minute I think not. If you look at the pre-order exotic is has the Prism colors on with all the all the other subclass colors, It adapts its damage type to your subclass and also has a grenade transmutation that eats your grenade, kind of reverse of the new "Super Grenades" where you create a more powerful grenade I have seen other with the similar thought, I think Bungie wanted to surprise us for once and their hands were forced to show it for extra hype.

One thing i would actually like to see in D3 would be changes to how armor is in the game. I want to see them go towards the terraria armor route. Since leaker mention that the Idea is we will be a universal guardian with the abilities of Warlock/Titan/Hunter. An example of an armor set. There could be a Hunter focused armor set. Each piece gives bonus mobility. The full set bonus gives bonus damage to throwing knives. The set would also give a hunter type look. That's just a basic idea for armor set of course. There could be numerous different bonus or sets depending on whatever bungie wants to cook up. They could even throw in equipables that give bonus to certain sub classes or abilities. But idk if they want to go that crazy with farming gear. It would be cool though. They could ditch armor mods with this method and casuals would be able to understand it easier by seeing they need a matching set. There could be exotic equipables instead of it being armor. Synergies with equipables for more advance players to configure into there build niche. If armor exotics do stay. Then maybe it would act as a armor bonus set of its own and you just get the bonus stats from the rest of the armor. I like this because casuals could just work on basic armor sets to still be somewhat relevant and its more straightforward. I could see this as a win win for sweats and casuals because the amount of times I've seen random players with the most random mods or no mods makes me sad. Keep the usual ornaments and shaders system as well of course or make it better. This would also fix a problem that i find kind of lame about Destiny currently is that most armor in the game is just different looks and styles that offer nothing. I'm aware of seasonal event buffs and specific raid/dungeon buffs but that's kind of all we have for armor sets. Artifice could be something we need raid/master dungeon material to go beyond masterwork that gives that artifice bonus. I'm also aware they are tryna reduce the amount of currency's in the game but i like my idea.

Damn huh blast from the past homie. Hope all is well

Watching your videos are so nostalgic, just reminds me of the good old destiny days

Unknown Player, Yay! I liked this video so much, it made me smile!

I think people also forget, that people like myself who joined destiny after the first sunsets, we have no clue wtf is going on in half the stories we see now as 1) we missed out on a bunch of the inital campaigns like the red war and 2) we also miss out on all the lore from all those + future seasons if we aren't around to play them (and this isn't just new players). I still don't understand why bungie hasn't tried to properly remedy this, cause to me the biggest hurdle by far for new players is just how we miss out on SO MUCH lore and content that as you guys say we may never get back. Overall though, awesome video. I am hella excited for the final shape and also a possible D3, even as a stupidly casual and still rather new player.

the red sublcass is prismatic - it looks like they just didn't have it done in time for the reveal

We need a super eery dark area in the story where a load of Grim come flying out at you and jump scare. That would be epic

I get the sense that byf is right on when. They had this planned for a while. What I think happened was making the new faction and new subclass was taking a lot longer to make than they anticipated. They showed us what they had finished during that first reveal and delayed it to finish what they had already started. Like the rest was 70% done but not enough to show off yet. They then used players' reactions to finish baking and add the icing.

this ep is awesome loving the content. i have had so much fun playing onslaught im excited for mountaintop and midnight coup tomorrow 😁😁😁

For seasonal content, I’d love to see a playlist that rotates that has old stuff (like the 6 player activities) and add old seasonal missions to the timeline. I’d love to play sever missions or the missions from Seraph

Great video !! P.s like the plant

Hopping back into destiny 2, it’s good to see your back

Wow, what a switch i was completely opposite. I heard the voices and was looking at the wrong person. I thought the video was lagging, LOL great video guys 😆👍

Not sure how I feel about the possibility of Destiny 3 doing way with classes, but I really like the class identities. Only time will tell. Would love a spin off where Onslaught is expanded to a full game and you could play as cabal or eliskni.

I think we're gonna die in the final shape, the player character I mean, man I can't wait

I don’t think the timeline is 3 months it seems it’s like 5-6 months depending on how much Joe knew about how fucked they were gonna be

I Guess the Vex will make their move after The Final Shape when we defeat? The Witness due to the fact that The Vex may be afraid of The Witness so I think because of us The Vex will make their biggest move to date. We still have Savathun, Xivu Arath, The Vex, The Nine, Eramis...Bungie can make a Story worth sticking around for.

You can tell it was plannen since the portal on the traveler that is a creation of light and dark has the prismatic effect seen in the preview

I think its very obvious that the new subclasses were planned for launching in an Episode, but due to poor pre-orders made the delay to add it on to The Final Shape. Leaks seem to indicate this, as well as the initial Final Shape reveal.

I feel like prismatic should be something that occurs when you equip and exotic in every slot, including all three weapons being exotic. It would give you a massive damage boost and upgrade boost compared to the new factions that we might face in this new expac and this could also be a stepping off point for destiny 3 if it ever becomes a thing.

I genuinely want to see a Destiny rpg, or more rpg elements incorporated into a Destiny live service. Especially with games like Starfield out in the wild, Destiny’s universe would absolutely enamor new players.

Pro D3 refresh but anti-sunsetting, why the disconnect?

Im just saying after Byf's comment about eliksni being the grimm, their weapons in the trailer immediately reminded me of shock pistols

So the thing about the “red” subclass, even though some of the icons are different then what the showed of, maybe new class stuff for the episodes, the new solar class color is the same bright red instead of the orange it use to be.

this my theory prismatic was already I the game, but it was more of a final shape campaign gimmick instead of an entire subclass. they probably decided to turn prismatic into a subclass with an extra grenade and a new animation added to it. I bet that the dread were already in concept because the devs really wanted to have a new race, but the executives decided to drop feed the new race per expansion/episode (the dread couldve already been close to being made and the rest was coming in the episodes). now that their backs are against a wall, they let the devs do a new race. and the class item was 100% made in the last few months

Prism might have been in development since Beyond Light and its development difficulties could be why Lightfall was split off of The Final Shape, with Strand having been pulled forward and fleshed out for Lightfall and new Light subclasses developed for TFS to replace it. Would explain why the weird story beats existed and how integral learning strand (originally prismatic?) was to its campaign…. But who knows.

Sunsetting wasn't the issue. It was how it was implemented. Power creep is making weapons essentially feel useless the more loot they add. Despite bungie evolving weapons a TON since beyond light.

Man Final Shape is looking pretty great... Love the podcast :)!

U could also have us travel to where lady efrideet is located as an outpost

In regard to the theory of the fallen being the flying things, wasn’t it mentioned in a recent lore release (I want to say the collectors edition but I don’t remember) that the witness couldn’t create life without the light, only twist it? So it would make sense if the dread was just twisted versions of its forces.

Great episode gents keep up that conversation!

Since this could very well be the last raid, I hope we get an encounter where we find every enemy (fallen cabal hive scorn taken vex), rest encounters can all be the new enemy faction that they are adding. Also I'm wondering after beating the Witness, do we get back IO, Mars and rest of the areas that the Witness had taken over.....

one of my thoughts is that Prismatic may have been planned for release slightly later in the year and so they bumped up it’s ship date to be alongside TFS

Could the veiled statues we found on the pyramid ships represent Rorschach?

The rumour is that it prismatic was not for the final shape and was actually part of the d3 plans but moved it to the final shape as they felt they needed more to make final shape special. this is but a window as to their overall plans of d3s plans of making guardians free of class limitations they are set to be your just a guardian and depending on the abilities used it what you can use not limited to hunter warlock and titan specific. makes sense as by lore there is no reason why other classes cant use other class abilities

Prismatic was probably something from the expansion after final shape.

The dread and prismatic were planned at the same time as final shape. Nothing were added during the delay because they would not have enough time.

Imagine they added a secret 6th subclass type but it’s a reward once worlds first completed

Honest question. I stopped playing maybe a year or two before Witch Queen. I've missed a lot. Do you think it's worth reinstalling Destiny 2 and hopping in when the Final Shape drops? Or is it too early to tell?

Something no one is talking about is I think prismatic was teased for a while because of the raid in lightfall where u have to use light and dark buffs throughout the raid, also the tessalation exotic has all the elements on the gun and the catalyst will probably allow u to use the verbs and maybe insert transcendence grenade. I might be reaching but it’s interesting.

ONE thing I hope happens in d3 if it happens. Is being able to physical switch between random rolled scopes or sights on my weapons. Barrels would change and stock would change. Just like the old black armory weapons 😮‍💨

For the "backs against the way Bungie" to the "we can't over deliver to not make other expansions look bad" that Justin Truman said at a GDC that had a massive dislike ratio. This is what is shown when the executives stay in their lanes and sit in a corner and let the devs cook and make fantastic stuff like Onslaught and SRL.

Facet of Dominance makes Void grenades weaken and arc grenades jolt targets. So void weaken is still very possible on Warlock, as well as the other classes.

Have so much new respect for byf for explaining all this shit to somone

I still stand by the idea that we should get one final single element subclass. I think that prismatic is incomplete with only 5 elements. If you add a 6th, you can play perfectly off that prismatic is the 7th and is perfect hence the number 7 representing perfection and completion. Edit: here's some idea! The 6th subclass as an almost technomancer type thing. Like allow us to utilise nanotechnology, not for physical upgrades like the Cloudstriders do so much, but to manipulate it as a weapon? I mean there's the argument that a creative type subclass is taken up by Strand? If Stasis is opposed Solar, what does Strand oppose, and what light class doesn't have its darkness opposite in subclass form? Maybe if void and strand naturally oppose, then the opposite of a lightning subclass (arc) is a sound wave subclass (thunder)? You could call it Rupture, and it would be the kinetic element.

I did NOT byf would look like that lol The man has an angelic voice

This was thoroughly enjoyable to listen to.

9:23 I'm with BYF I think this has been in the works since the Subclass 3.0 stuff. I think when they reworked the subclasses it was for us to get used to aspects and fragments and I would say it was in the works since Beyond Light.

It would be great if Intellect was actually useful. It could add a percentage to Super damage depending on the Tier

I'm excited to use stasis and solar on my lock it's going be amazing

A 4 month delay is probably mostly used to flesh out and polish what’s already made and done. I’m sure they had some ideas and concepts that weren’t really 100% and needed more time. I’d also like to mention that Paul Taussi talked to a dev and they said “what do you think we could’ve made in that time?” Making it sound like they have an ace up their sleeve which could be a numerous amount of things.

A huge thing to remember are these developers are people. Writers block is just as big of a thing in game development as it is in novel writing. It's difficult to come up with new mindblowing content year after year and month after month. We as gamers need to understand that filler content in live service games is acceptable, so that the developers can take a breather and become inspired to make something truly gamebreaking and then reign it back in to create something with a wow factor again.

You can get void weaken nades on prismatic…

I think they had made for something for further down the line in the after we finished final

Luke Smith is the Executive Creative Director according to the title in that clip. I doubt he is leading or developing for just one project anymore. I imagine the only higher position he could hold is something like Senior Executive or some kind of C-level position like Chief Creative Officer over the entire company.

From what I have both seen and been told the majority of preorders come within the final 1-2 months before an expansion. So the "they would've showed this to get more preorders" makes no sense because that's exactly what they're doing. They're just saving for the exact window where the hype can be as fresh as possible to get as many people as possible to preorder and COMMIT to it.

I wish you did these more often

Prismatic was shown in the original reveal. You see the Titan turn into it with their new axe in one of the cut scenes. This was definitely planned.

I would bet all the things we saw have been cooking for a while, but weren't ready to be shown. It could have been that there were a lot of bugs or fine tuning that they needed to do with such a large swath of changes. As a software developer myself, I could see that being the case. It could have also been that they saw opportunity to develop things a little more to flesh out things that were somewhat half-baked. They really can't afford to have anything half-baked given the pitchforks people have been swinging around.

Re: the initial conversation about the prismatic subclass/transcendence being made in the gap between the first August reveal and the one a couple weeks ago, we all need to keep in mind that the expansion was still in an alpha development build in that first reveal. It's more than possible (in fact, highly likely) that they were working on prismatic/transcendence but it wasn't ready to be shown, whether from a technical or even aesthetic perspective. Same thing goes with the rest of the Dread. It's also possible that, if the layoff hadn't forced their hand early, TFS would still have needed three extra months in the oven, they would have announced the delay back in like February, and we'd all be even more pissed off than we are.

always love the differing opinions and perspectives between them both. i definitely believe prismatic was rushed as it uses minimal new assets but still exciting nonetheless.