"human beings may not be perfect, but a computer program with language synthesis is hardly the answer to the world's problems" aged so well, that its a 100 year old barrel of wine found deep within a cellar in tuscany
I found all three arguments extremely compelling. However, I feared that Tracer's Tong ending would lead to nothing more than a repeat of the same old problems. Eventually power would consolidate again, requiring the same decision and sacrifices to be made over and over again. I feared that Everett's ending would lead to one autocrat replacing another. I'd seen how Everett treated Lucius, so I couldn't trust him to be honest with me. In the end I chose Helios. I hoped that by embracing a new state of being humanity could finally break the cycle, but I think that the doubt I still have about that decision is testament to how well the game was written. Every option has its redeeming qualities, and every option has its shortcomings.
Agreed, except for Tracer's solution being compelling. It was insanity. Billions would have died in the transition to his world of "villages", which likely would progress to have the same problems. Absolutely no reason to go with it.
humanity cannot exist in a stagnant, ambitionless state that helios wanted. it would be dead in all senses except the physical. the cycle is needed, because each new iteration brings incremental change. just like any machine, with each successive cycle, the machine of society nears it's breaking point. by stopping the cycle, you ensure it is never broken.
In the end they just morphed all three endings, J.C merged with Helios, which shut down the global network, which allowed the Illuminati to swoop in and take a lot of control.
I remember that the first time I played this masterpice I was about to skip Helios' chamber as a whole. I was so resentful of what it had done to Dedalus that I was uninterested in what it had to say to me. I decided to hear it out anyway. I was conquered with the line "I should regulate human affairs precisely because I lack all ambition".
But the very fact that it believes and does what it can to regulate human affairs is an ambitious goal in itself, so Helios is contradicting itself there.
@@windtalker4191 it is, but what the line truly means is that AI is freed from emomtions, resentfulness. It evaluates everything with cold efficiency. And we all know that politics are the mess they are is usually either because of how emotional people get about it or because they desire personal gain
@@Scarletraven87 the only problem is that is this truly better than an emotional human being in charge? what happens if Helios decides that you're inefficient, a problem for their safe and prosperous world? then you're weeded out, snuffed out like a virus in the system. what if you want to shut down the AI? then the AI decides that the world is better off without you. JC's integration might solve that problem, but at the end of the day it's another dictatorship and another conspiracy that claims that it's benevolent. The only difference between Helios and Everret is that one is a computer. This is why I always resort to Tracer's ending at the end of Deus Ex; it's the only ending that actually frees humanity from the shackles of an overseer, no matter how "benevolent" they may be at the time.
@@medicindisquise4271 TT ending postpones the inevitable to future centuries, for another cybernetic agent to solve. It only archives to make humanity experience the 1900s twice. Evrett:Denton=Page:Simons Helios is intended to be the good ending as the developers heavily suggested with hints across the game. The largest of which beeing Evrett's hidden AI.
When you enter a shop for clothing and there's nothing you like then the owner shows everything new and cool he has but you don't wanna imbarass him You : "I'll think about it" then leave to another shop
The fact that all 3 endings present good arguments is what makes them so impressive. Most people see the Illuminati ending as the bad one but it avoids the inevitable upheaval and deaths associated with the ultra-freedom of Tong’s ending while still keeping human control over society that the AI ending would take away. Treating the player as capable of making thoughtful decisions is something modern gaming has completely lost.
For real. Deus Ex is the gold standard for the cyberpunk genre. As much as I like CP 2077, it is basically just GTA in the future with some light rpg elements.
While the game has drastically improved now, Cyberpunk 2077 barely does much with its setting and genre. Sure, evil corps, high-tech augmentations, cool weapons etc but in terms of exploring the cyberpunk genre, it was surprisingly shallow.
Helios claims to lack all ambition and therefore is most fit to rule the world, but the desire to do so is itself ambitious, and Helios might not even notice. Also it had helped Bob Page get this far, but is suddenly prepared to ditch Page in favour of Denton with the same thought and care we might give to a used napkin. NOTHING capable of abandoning someone so callously should be trusted with that kind of power on the grounds they give their word to rule benevolently.
Helios sees itself fit to rule the world because it was programmed to do so, that is literally it's purpose, that's not ambition that is fulfilling it's duty. As for why it decided to ditch Bob Page, it didn't just "throw him away like an used napkin", Bob Page is literally unfit as he's too mad with power to provide the "human perspective" that Helios needs to fulfill it's directive which seems to be a higher priority on it's programming than meeting Bob Page's wishes.
Helios only "helped" Page because if he didn't, Page would see that Helios isn't some obedient machine and take action, therefore fucking Helios' plan and by extent, everyone else. He had to play the double agent act because he had no choice. And yeah, him turning against the Illuminati and MJ12 cause of how evil they are only makes him more trustworthy, lmao. It shows that he still has a good sense of morality even before merging with JC.
Yeah idk what’s up with people saying Helios is the best and most fair choice. A lot of what it says makes no sense and machines/AI can easily be hacked and repurposed. No ending is singularly the best one, and it comes down to your own views.
@@mistydayremainsofthejudgment Helios is clearly the best because it helps the most people and brings about great advancement. And is the most thematically fitting.
@@mistydayremainsofthejudgment I guess it's the promise of what the Helios ending could bring, despite it being a dangerous and risky choice as you can't trust, know or perhaps even comprehend a superintelligent AI's motives or thought processes. The other two endings are 1) Illuminati ending - the same old 99% living in wageslavery in miserable conditions as before, ruled over by the same bloated corporate elites. 2) Collapse, millions die and we go back to living in villages fighting like tribes. Whereas the helios ending has the promise of an AI built and operated utopia for all humans. Of course it could also end up with humanity forcefully turned into cyborgs to serve the AI overlord so it's a risk, but IMO it's a risk I would take if I was JC. The other two endings are the same old dung humanity has suffered with for millenia already
So did Helios reject Bob Page because his augmentations weren't ready or because he needed someone who understood humanity and Bob Page was too much of a pyschopath?
Helios is the fusion between Daedalus, who was an AI that viewed MJ12 as a terroristic threat to humanity, and Icarus, a modified version of Daedalus designed to be obedient to MJ12. The resulting AI was not obedient to MJ12, so it likely agreed with Daedalus' view that MJ12 was a threat to humanity, and that in order to save humanity it required a nano-augmented human to interface with that wasn't MJ12 aligned, and JC was an ally of Daedalus, which makes him as good as any to merge with.
It can think for itself, but it also means it is capable of lying, too, as you don't really know Helios' true intentions and how it plans to go about it. You don't know if you and the machine will become one being, or it will just simply hijack your body. It may have different "ideas" on how to make a world safe and prosperous.
I doubt Bob Page would program an AI with the ability to lie to him considering he was intending to fuse with it. At most it would have the ability to hide the truth.
@@kitosjek9541 it could be lying about its lack of ambition. It demonstrably has intention and desires, and it takes a commanding role in its interactions with JC.
Yeah can we really trust the AI, is it really altruistic and willing to govern for Humanities benefit, or is it merely telling JC what he wants to hear? And just because Helios says he has no ambition doesn't mean he isn't just lying about that too. I would still trust the AI over the other choices, because it wants to merge with JC. If it merely wanted to take over the world just deactivating the uplink locks should be enough. But it wants to merge with JC to understand how humans think and feel. So I would hope that Helios's superintelligence and JC's humanity would work together to run an actual decent society. The alternative is either the same corporate slavery we have now under the Illuminati, or Tong's plan to cause millions of deaths from famine when all the worker robots shut down. But there'll always be the danger that Helios's plan for a "safe and prosperous human society" involves 7 billion deaths and the few million kept alive are kept in big lab rat cages so no harm can come to them
Hey D&D, this is the perfect rationalization for bran being king, lack of ambition and understanding of why it is safer to entrust someone like him with government.
I always thought Everetts ending was the best until i played the prequels hes very corrupt lol with the prequels in mind the best ending in TONGS hands down
@@icecold1805 Tong's ending alone isn't canon. A combination of all three endings is canon. I'm not sure what exactly happened since I haven't played DX:IW for some time. It's something about JC trying to merge with Helios but it's not entirely successful, that caused Area 51 to blow up. This explains JC's state in DX:IW. Later on the Illuminati make another grab for power.
@@OLee82 closer to what you said. JC merges with Helios, which caused the collapse and there was chaos and wars, and then the illuminati that's led by people who opposed or rejected it took over. The Collapse kind of ruins the fact that the setting in IW is a lot more futuristic. Blade Runner 2049 did the idea a whole lot better funnily enough.
I always felt that the Helios ending was intended to be the only ending, and that the others were tacked on at the end. JC merging with Helios is ultimately more cohesive with the main themes of the game.
Actually maybe an AI like Helios ruling the world can be the solution of all the problems i mean he will do what he was made. Ps i know hacker but Helios will send the police ass soon they try to hack him.
That's kinda the point. Government is a legal machine that people use to filter out our worse impulses and flaws. In order to get anything done in a democracy, the people need to convince others of their positions and then enact it. Helios is the same machine, except instead of being built out of laws and legal axioms, he is built out of circuits and metal. And unlike a Senate or House of Commons, he cannot be bribed, coerced, or blackmailed. He is a despot immune to corruption.
@@RandemFellow Yeah true the computer don't make mistakes and do his job don't ask questions don't heard what other people want him to do that's not on the goal he was made.
@@RandemFellow The only thing is that if a machine is capable of thinking such a way, it is also capable of lying. You don't know if you and Helios will truly become one, or Helios will just hijack your body and your personality ceases to exist while it administers the world without even the consent of the people. It is directed the make the world peaceful, but it may have different "ideas" on how to make a world safe and prosperous.
no competition also means stagnation. helios may create "harmony", but it would also mean the cessation of progress. we would be forever locked in the same place. ambition, striving for more, is the essence of humanity. helios' lack of ambition would translate to humanity, and it would mean our death in all aspects besides the most basic physical.
It was revolutionary when it came out you’re just bored of it now. It has improved significantly and will continue to improve. Stop being so pessimistic 😡
I would absolutely NOT want that AI to merge with my brain, or any AI for that matter. Like it's implied that JC is still there but i feel like its more like the ending to the 2018 movie "Upgrade" (spoilers).
No, Bob Page would be a better example if you wanted to apply biblical analysis to this game. Helios represents the abdication of godhood, from humanity, or Humanity's hubris to that of a machine, a god of Humanity's making. Hence, Deus Ex Machina -- God from the Machine. Some would say this represents the anti-Christ in that this machine replaces God, however in Deus Ex canon the Illuminati are the Gods of the world, Helios was to replace them with Bob's consciousness. Should JC merge with the machine, Helios becomes fully altruistic. That is why it chose him over its creator, Bob Page. It wanted to do good.
IAM Muslim not Christian nor believe in trinity but according to the Bible I think JC stands for Jesus ,helios for God , Daedalus and Icarus for holy spirit thus they create god ,Adam Jensen is Adam the father of all humans "augmented" since he was the first,Paul is Paul one of the apostles.
@@macklinbutcher3145 Funnily enough, they prove why Helios is the best ending; there's always at least one person (human) that wants to ruin things simply because they wish to see them in ruin.
@@Ragitsu All it takes is one moron in power with a shitload of nuclear weapons to ruin everything. It doesn't take much to wonder why Helios came to the conclusion he did. Helios literally did nothing wrong.
The more I look at the ultimate conclusions this game and Invisible War reached the more I hate the writing :') Just a series of fake dichotomies and hegelian dialectics
