Devout Mormon Missionary Left Church - Hayley Rawle of Girlscamp Podcast | Ep 1779 

Yes! I'm also a never Mormon! I knew a Mormon kid growing up, and then a friend dated more than one Mormon/ex-Mormon. It gave me a peek into that world, and I had some idea of it being a bit culty, but I was missing a lot of the culture and doctrine. The long format interviews are really great to listen to while I'm working on something else, and even though I've never been a member of a high demand religion, I can always find something to relate to. In particular, the experience of finding or finally understanding a huge part of your identity as an adult, having revelations about who you are at your core that is at odds with what you maybe always believed, for me, is really easy to relate to

​@@phoenixflamefeather😅pl⁹0p😅⁹p😊😊😊

I'm never-mo as well, and I've got to say that even the parts I don't relate to, I still find very valuable to listen to! It means that I'm learning something new, and gaining understanding for issues that are relevant to other people, since we're all in this together after all, and benefit from understanding each other better and without prejudice.

I feel like a can related even by not being a Mormon, but coming from another religious background. Each episode to me is like a therapy session. I watched many episodes, it is rare to me not to like one, but I did. Didn’t like the person, their attitude. The best episodes in my opinion are the ones involving gays or lesbians. I cried in so many that I can’t count. I watched some of those episodes more than once. We must to learn to love people, we must to love people, period.

Yes!

I am also german and not mormon and I had the exact same thought about missionaries teaching refugees. I have to say I was kind of shocked. Especially with them beeing so shut out from a lot of communities because a lot of people have a lot of prejudice and than having these missionaries swoop in. Feels really wrong from my perspective...

​@@noran5812 100%

The church actually tells missionaries to look for vulnerable people. Someone going through a rough time, financial difficulties, relationship problems, addiction, death in the family, or other forms of trauma. They do this because damaged individuals are more likely to hang on their every word.

@Julia-co2sl I'm from Munich as well and have been watching Mormon Stories for years :) Totally have to google where the lds building is :)

My great grandfather mother and grandma are German they never smiled. Now I get it.

You're a leader to your 2 children! ♥

​@davewilkins72 That's exactly what I thought. So much better to lead two beautiful children than anyone in the LDS "Church."

Good for you. You are the leader of your life. Not some rich old white men who have no idea what life is for us the commons, the sheep so to speak. They always gotta compare us to some wild animal. The fish, the sheep, the heard of (insert animal), the flock of (insert bird) yuck. Happy leading mama❤

My friends wife said that she would be a great mother here on earth. With many children. Medically she can't have children now at 48 her and my friend left the church because of all the lying by the leaders.

If you have two children and you are teaching them Christian morals then your patriarchal blessing has come to pass as you are leading them in righteousness.❤

It took about a year more to be done completely. It took several more years to wade through the teachings and determine what was true. Leaving as a teenager is a lonely process. Now at 43. I am firm in my belief in Jesus as nondenominational Christian . But even now the habits ingrained in me as a kid are there. As for the neck kissing pervert. My bishop was a coward but my mother was not. She went up to man, leaned in, dug her long thick nails in his shoulder and said “you ever go anywhere near my daughter again I will hurt you.” She did this quietly with a smile. The man never looked at me and his daughters didn’t either again. There are many stories that I am sure we all have. Long story short my journey was trauma filled and becoming an adult without Mormons was also hard.

So sorry. 😞😞 I'm glad you found your way out.

​@@crystallawson6992Yay for your Mom!

@@jacobsamuelson3181 ok confused 🤔😕 message here.. She's in the Cult or out?

@@crystallawson6992 3 cheers for your mom!

Hang in there. Divorce absolutely stinks but it gets better on the other side.

I feel your pain & your frustration. I wish you all the luck in the World.

That sucks! I hope you keep moving forward and it sucks less! Rooting for you!

I'm so sorry for what you are going thru. ❤

You matter. Don’t forget that.

wow, it took you some time...

This really speaks to how Mormonism teaches its members that their bodies are not their own. I’m so sorry this happened to you and I’ve had similar experiences. Thank you for sharing ❤

@@BrandNewEyes03 thank you ☺️ for responding to my post, it feels good to know it wasn’t just me.

Utterly! I’m looking forward to the grandfather hearing it!

Grandpa Warner isn't thrilled, but Grandpa Walker is right, she is bad-ass. Independence of thought is a HUGE threat to a cult! And an amazing thing for an individual.

John some days act like a kid, hahaha, I love him and of course when his wife is part, such a intelligent and caring woman.

I think most people's ego (or maybe just my own ) doesn't allow them to think they could get involved in a cult. But from a more detached perspective I like understanding how the mind control works.

Granted, we all think getting into a cult will never happen to me as a person . I will see it and run. But I think the person who is doing the cult, like Jim Jones, are master manipulators and know how to work the system. He made, initially everything about community and togetherness and it worked. Obviously, later when it became obvious people needed to get out, look what happened the kool-aid episode. There is never a sign out that says - beware this group is a cult. We all need to be aware of our surroundings.

Growing up in a church I would not have considered it a cult. As an adult I think all religions are cultist. I’m glad I’m not part of a religion anymore.

I love that I get asked by Mormons if I listen to Mormon Stories, especially after the billboards were up. I love to say OH YOU BET I DO! Then they change the subject 😊

​@@cg8012it would be like coming out of the closet for them. To live their life on their own terms.

It’s funny how people think that Mormons are goofy- yet, most of what we see on the surface is the tip of the ice berg Mormonism. Most Mormons don’t even know how crazy Mormonism is

That’s how it is in the PNW/Seattle area. Some parts of the USA have very friendly, genuine people…some have the fake friendly…some have the cold & unfriendly. I’m not sure Germans fit any of these categories. They are blunt & I love that. I think that’s more authentic.

@@aliciamarie9704I live in the south (USA). I'm very friendly but also very blunt 😆

@@dianasimplifies ahh! Then you are my favorite type!

There was no chance of converting Germans to Mormonism.

I wouldn't describe Germans as mean people. It's just, unlike Utah Mormons, they don't go out of their way to be friendly and smiley. Lol

Thank you for sharing your comment. If you don't mind, I would like to share with you. I served an LDS mission in Japan and had a wonderful opportunity to exchange teachings with Buddhist Priests in two areas that I became good friends with. They taught me that, Buddhism addresses the issue of suffering head-on and offers various teachings and practices to understand and transcend it. The core teachings of Buddhism revolve around the Four Noble Truths, which provide a framework for understanding suffering and its cessation: The Truth of Suffering (Dukkha): Buddhism acknowledges that suffering is an inherent part of life. It encompasses not only physical pain but also mental and emotional dissatisfaction and the unsatisfactory nature of existence itself. The Origin of Suffering (Samudaya): Buddhism teaches that the root cause of suffering is attachment and craving (Tanha). It is the desire for things to be different from how they are, clinging to transient experiences, and the ego's illusion of a separate self. The Cessation of Suffering (Nirodha): Buddhism holds that the cessation of suffering is possible by eliminating attachment and craving. This state is known as Nirvana or liberation, characterized by freedom from suffering, inner peace, and ultimate enlightenment. The Path to the Cessation of Suffering (Magga): Buddhism offers the Noble Eightfold Path as a guide to overcome suffering. It consists of ethical conduct (Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood), mental discipline (Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration), and wisdom (Right Understanding, Right Thought). My friends taught me that, Buddhism encourages individuals to directly confront and investigate suffering through mindful awareness and introspection. Rather than avoiding or denying suffering. They taught me that practitioners are encouraged to develop insight into its nature and causes. This can be done through practices such as mindfulness meditation, contemplation of the impermanence of all phenomena, and developing compassion and loving-kindness towards oneself and others; including some times tough love. Additionally, Buddhism emphasizes the importance of accepting the reality of suffering and developing a compassionate response to alleviate it. This involves cultivating empathy, practicing generosity, and engaging in acts of service and kindness towards others. Overall, Buddhism offers a comprehensive approach to understanding and addressing suffering head-on by investigating its root causes, cultivating wisdom and compassion, and following a path that leads to the cessation of suffering. I was able to share similar knowledge and expeirnces and practices that I learned from my parents who both worked outside the home. They worked as professors at the UofU. They had 9-kids and raised us all with similar values as the single Buddist priests were teaching. I shared with them that I had the best examples in the world. While they weren’t perfect by all means, they always strived for what they believed in, and they along with the teachings of Jesus Christ and my love for knowledge is why I served a mission. I took the approach when I was out there to learn from others which then gave me hundreds of opportunities to teach the pieces they were interested in. My mission president said, “love the Japanese people. Go make friends with them. Learn from them. In turn you will be blessed to share your love of the Gosepl with them as well”. This couldn’t be more true and has been true in my life as a whole. If I hadn't chosen to serve, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to make these friends and learn something and share something with them.

THAT’s what I am - a Never-Mo ! Thanks

As a German, I'd be plenty happy to see Ex missionaries stay like Ex military choice to remain outside of the USA

Oh gosh, I just want to give you the biggest hug! My mother was in the exact same situation, although she got out of it when my father had a heart attack on a river rafting tour. Unfortunately, the church still has a hold on her, and I desperately want her to wake up and see the truth about this 200-year scam that's making her miserable!

​@@rebeccacall7348why you'll never get me river rafting!! Jkjk

Thank you for sharing your heartfelt story and expressing your feelings about your experiences with the Church. It's clear that your journey has been filled with both triumphs and challenges, and I appreciate your openness in discussing them. It's unfortunate to hear that you faced difficulties when it came to finding acceptance within the local Utah Mormon community when you were looking to get married. It can be disheartening when people prioritize social status or lineage over genuine connections and love. I had just the opposite experience as you being from pioneer stock and ultimately rejected after 3 kids because my ex-wife decided to leave the church of who wasn't of pioneer stock. However, it's inspiring to learn that you found your soulmate and have been happily together for 37 years. Love truly knows no boundaries, and your decision to follow your heart was a testament to the power of love in your life. Your observations about some members of the Church being political, hateful, or hypocritical are valid concerns and is true in some maybe even many cases. It can be confusing and frustrating to witness such behavior, especially when it seems contradictory to the principles and teachings of the faith. It's essential to remember that individuals within any organization, including religious ones, can have diverse beliefs, opinions, and attitudes. Unfortunately, some people may use their positions or wealth for personal gain rather than living according to the values they profess. It's understandable that these experiences have left you questioning certain aspects of the Church and its members. It's important to note that not everyone within the Church shares the same views or acts in the same way. While some individuals may disappoint or confuse us, there are also many who strive to live their faith sincerely and make a positive difference in their communities. If you find the current state of the Church tiring or disheartening, it may be helpful to seek out like-minded individuals or communities within the Church who share your values and concerns. Connecting with those who approach their faith with sincerity, kindness, and humility can provide a sense of support and belonging. Ultimately, your spiritual journey is deeply personal, and it's important to follow the path that feels right for you. Your commitment to love, despite the obstacles you faced, is a beautiful testament to the power of compassion and understanding. May you continue to find peace and fulfillment in your own way, wherever your path leads you.

​@@waynecroft4877was this written by mormon-gpt?

We were made to feel like we hadn't caught the vision yet by Kikuchi and that we needed to emulate Tokyo South's "success" during the Groberg years. Some in our mission tried it and it was a mess for the rest of us to try and clean things up afterwards.

Dude time to let go… People seem to be able to leave but can’t let go.

so sad. I was a member for 9 years. Was tired of guilt and judgement.

I think I've figured out why they keep the missionaries so locked down. If they actually interacted with the cultures in a free way there would probably be a better chance of them being converted out of Mormonism than them converting people to mormonism.

@@jeffk464 it’s solely about output. If you were able to do literally anything other than missionary work, we’d have done it. They only get you for 2 years, so gotta juice every minute to get those baptisms. I remember mission gossip going around that when my mission president first got there he lead by “the spirit” letting missionaries do their thing. When baptism numbers dipped, he got destroyed by the area authority and shamed. He was only about numbers after that. Was a big salesman role after that. How to get people to listen, then baptized. I remember even listening to trainings on how to challenge investigators go get baptized in the first discussion. What a sales pitch

​@jeffk464 yup....I think it was stated on Mormon Stories that a leader that left the church acknowledged that they are area in most areas the mission is more about it reinforcing being a TBM for the missionary rather than actually converting people

You lost me at “I had no idea women also develop trauma from traumatic events.” Ofc it also negatively impacts women.

Yeah, that's how they get in contact with people in Italy as well. I reall? don't like all this missionary stuff and am sorry for their "victims".

Agreed. I was in the Hamburg mission from 2008-2010 (I left at the same time the mission closed and was split between the Frankfurt and Berlin missions).

Secularism is high in many European countries. There are few baptisms now in those missions.

The Amish are even weirder and thus cooler than the Mormons. BTW, there are Latter Day Saint Amish. That must be ultra crazy.

@@charlesmendeley9823 What do you mean? Do you mean people who were Amish and get baptized in the Mormon Church? The Amish are not weird. They live in an oppressively strict community under a religious theocracy. What is cool about that? Also, in Germany, some people genuinely thought that we were the authentic Amish. Some literally believed that we lived without electricity. They did not realize that we were missionaries of the Mormon Church until we told them. Then that usually started a conversation about Scientology or Jehovah's Witnesses because again they did not know what the Mormon Church really was. This was not some great contacting and missionary opportunity because once we would tell an investigator about the First Vision and the Book of Mormon that was usually the last time we ever saw that person.

The earliest written parts of the NT were from at least a hundred years after the death of Jesus, and many were written two hundred years after, both long after everyone who knew him was dead. It was preserved in oral culture before someone wrote it down. Reference to Zealot or not, these are facts the majority of biblical scholars agree on.

@@katieramos5868 can you share your source? Scholars say the gospels were written 40-70 years after Jesus' death. The dating seems to be based on the gospels occurring after the destruction of the temple (otherwise they would be prophetic) and Mark occuring first. But if Mark is a speech that referenced Matthew and Luke and Jesus was a prophet they can be dated earlier. Scholars date Paul's letters to 20-30 years from Jesus death and he quotes hymns and creeds established before that. Look into 1 Corinthians 15.

I fully agree. I made a similar comment. Trauma leaking a lot. Take care of yourself

I feel like often times he tries to speak for everyone though. It is scary to speak up as a non Mormon or ex Mormon. It’s been hard navigating my own life knowing my in laws think that I am sewing seeds of doubt, or speaking for satan. That I’ll never be truly happy and they should never take council from me. The church has done a really good job at taking the power from anyone who wants to speak up. I also feel like the church culture has changed a lot in the last 20 years. The younger generation has access to the internet and podcasts. You’re able to kind of reach a larger audience and hide behind a screen. I’m happy they are able to do so, but in the past it was oh you just have to say it to peoples face. And that’s much harder to do. So I think it’s less trauma leaking, but more the entire dynamic of speaking up as a non member has changed.

@@ristopherobbins yes, it's very scary. As a young mother, I chose to leave my husband and his family, who were not Mormon, but were very toxic for me and my children. I instinctively knew I would have to go "non- contact" with every in-law family member to protect myself. Unfortunately they took it out on our three young children, who they still saw, and who were punished emotionally and mentally for my "transgressions." I was unable to protect them.

@@argosz8046 hopefully you were able to educate them at the very least. Give them the tools and history. That’s so messed up. I’m so sorry you went through that.

@@ristopherobbins Thank you. I turn 68 yo tomorrow, and my eldest daughter turns 50 yo in December. Two weeks ago was the first time she allowed me the opportunity to voice my regret that I couldn't protect her when she was a child. She still seeks out their toxic relationships, despite their cruelty she still wants their approval, and still sees any comment from me as critical. I believe bitterness is a wasted emotion left over from anger, but it makes me very sad. There is a glimmer of hope for some small amount of healing between us as I am quite unwell.

I've left but still believe in God, less sure about Jesus. I've gravitated towards Buddhism. I know a lot of people that have left and I'd say 85% still at least believe in God.

I’m actually still an active member, but non-believing, or PIMO (physically in, mentally out) as I’ve found many call it. Basically, church culture is far to strong and ingrained in the area and family, making it far to disruptive to try and actually leave. My issue is that I’ve simply never had any personal experience that I could identify as a spiritual witness. And believe me, I’ve tried, for decades. I’ve done all the right things (activity, prayer, scriptures, tithing, mission, temple marriage, callings). I’ve stayed worthy (never any alcohol, smoking, drugs) and my wife is literally the only girl I’ve ever kissed, so even chastity rules have been followed pretty well! And I’ve been pretty sincere in asking and basically living like I believe, but still nothing. So recently I’ve had to challenge myself and see what the deal is. I thought I would start with the safe issue and see about why I should believe in god in the first place. Laying out my thoughts and experiences, as well as looking at debates on the existence of a god, I quickly found that I really had no good reason to believe. After that it wasn’t too hard to unravel the poor truth claims of the church and find that they were far more explainable from a man made explanation than a god or faith based reasoning. Ultimately, why shouldn’t I have received some type of confirmation if there really was a god?

In the US, there are basically two trends: one is to join a mainstream Christian church, often in the he evangelical spectrum. See e.g. the Tanners. The second trend is to continue deconstructing not only Mormonism, but also Christianity, and ending up with a secular worldview.

i think it definitely depends on the individual. in my experience with unpacking my spirituality the way ive reconciled my relationship with god is by defining what god means to me and being okay with it not necessarily aligning with the god i was taught of growing up. to me its more about my personal relationship with god and who i feel god is. i do think its interesting to think about my upbringing and how it could and more than likely influences the way i view my spirituality now even as i distance myself from the church as an organization. i still feel a connection to the spiritual side of myself even though i dont align with the organization in many ways.

I left a year ago yet I’ve always believed in God/Creator. I’ve since joined Islam ☪️

❤️ this! 😂

​​​@@cinnamondan4984not "Cat Vonnegut"? 😅 Or Kurt Vonnecat?

Your almost to the point. I’m someone who has completely deconstructed from Christianity and am able to see the parallels of control in all religion. Keep learning about what you believe is the “truth”. Hopefully you get there one day and realize that you in fact control your own “light”.

@@tylerhall95 what? Did the spirit tell you to respond like that? Maybe the problem is members like you.

How did you go through 12 Bishops? Did you move around a lot?

@@tylerhall95 Does your bishop know you go to all the apostate channels and act like an ass?

@@tylerhall95Tyler hall I feel you made a very rude remark, well think about it.

Agreed. Not a believable story. Just vague allegations of abuse, that 12 bishops in a row wouldnt help with? Bishop's typically serve 4 -6 years × 12 = 48 years of this. . No, not believable.

I think the success is equally bad in all three German missions. They can barely replace the people leaving. They shut down the Facebook English class due to lack of attendance, and their portal chat is not staffed, so you basically get no response. 😂

"leaning 3 different German accents" is quite generous for the low level of language comprehension expected upon arrival and with so repetitive tasks/limited engagement Best luck to anyone trying

That is awful!

I am also Catholic (cradle Catholic) and worked in the church for 15 years in youth ministry. Parts of this were so triggering to me especially revolving around purity culture and confessing my "sins" to someone else.

@@hopejeffcoat1819 Yes! I am also a cradle Catholic and grew up in very conservative, fundamentalist circles. I am still unpacking some purity culture myths many years later!

Can you explain more? I don't quite understand.

In most communities a middle aged man grilling a teenage girl on her sexuality and what she's wearing would be arrested.

American here. I’d like to meet those “nice” Americans you’re talking about. Thought that was a myth.

@@TheOriginalDuckley they must be out there somewhere, I'm sure! I met some three decades ago.

To b9th the american and the german, people grom your cultures come off to the rest of the world as having feelings of superiority that one if you roots in race and the other in nationalism. How are you maintaning such emtions intergenerationally?