Dharma Vlog: Cults and Weird Buddhism 

I have adopted the philosophy of Rabbi Joseph H. Gelberman: "Never Instead, Always in Addition To". In other words, I take what is good and positive and add it to my practice/humanness and let go of what is not. That makes me walk on my own path without merging to any religion, group, secular or other beliefs. This approach has worked for me to continue growing.

It should be noted that when your teacher called Carl Sagan a "sociopath", the term "sociopath" has a different meaning in Scientology. In their terms, a "sociopath" is anyone who criticizes or disagrees with the Church of Scientology

I remember my early contact with Tibetan Buddhism and why it possibly is so fascinating for the western mind due to it's mystical aspects which I suspect is due to the influence of Tibet's earlier Bon traditions. I recall vividly and probably to my benefit, an answer to my questioning. ..."Some people want to learn to go astral traveling with the Lamas, much easier to fly British Airways." ...lol.

If anyone tells you that you don’t need to know what something means, just do it...YOU SHOULD RUN LIKE HELL lol

Thank you, Doug. I had a minor experience with SGI in Madrid, and it fits exactly with what you say. It is a show-me-the-money cult. Unfortunately, it's not the only one in Buddhism. Metta!

I had almost an exact experience 40 years ago thru a martial arts instructor. After a few weeks i realized it wasn’t for me or what I was searching for. When i attempted to leave,I was harassed by several members almost on a daily basis. Finally I told the leader that if this didn’t stop I knew our county District Attorney and would be speaking with him. All harassment ceased.

I was also a member of Nichiren Shoshu (Soga Gakkai ) and had similar bizarre experiences. I was told to chant for as many hours as possible every day and not to worry about what the chant meant. They also told me that if I chanted long enough, I would get whatever material wealth or desire I wished for. I quit after a few months as the practice was all wrong and insincere to me, although I really liked some of the members. It was one of the worst religious experiences I've had and I don't think anything has changed in the practice. My advise is to stay clear from it.

Thank you so much for giving voice to how I feel about SGI

Thanks for this video!! I knew sgi in a vulnerable moment of my life, after ending an 8-year relationship in a new country. Looking back I think that this fact made me more "easy" to be persuaded by the sgi, even though that from the beginning many things did not like me, for example, the obsession of calling Nichiren the real Budha with no real support whatsoever, ignoring the role or not giving enough importance to Shakyamuni, and most of all, the dogmatism, I had to do mental gymnastics every time I read a sgi document, all of them talk about how the sgi is the only organization that defends the "real Buddhism" and how the only and expressway to enlightenment is the sgi or Nichiren Buddhism. I think the practice of daimoku is good and it may help you in moments of your life, like everything in Buddhism, you have to live it and experiment with it for your self, but the thing is that people in the sgi have a dogmatic approach about it, they talk a lot about the real practice and the other approaches are wrong. I quit it, and know doing vipassana, I think they are responsible about people leaving the organization, they just care about getting more and more members and become kind of multinational religion or something like it, they just care about that!! Anyway thanks, I've learned a lot from watching you!

What Doug said. Been there, tried that, and the sad thing is that I knew better from both past experience and formal education. If you start doing something - praying, chanting, meditating, polishing random doorknobs - and things seem to start going more your way, it is not some god, guide, guru, or teacher that is making that "benefit" happen. It is you. You changing your mindset, are doing things to make your life better, even without being conscious of doing so. There IS some hard science to support the mental and physical benefits of meditation (skip the candle), but if you have made some change and your life is starting to get better, it is not because something outside of you is doing woo-woo stuff, it is because you have made a not-necessarily-well-thought-out-plan-and/or- commitment to make the kinds of decisions to make that happen. Cooking at home instead of doing so much expensive, not so healthy dining out, not buying that mint-condition Han Solo action figure and saving the money instead, comparative rather than impulsive shopping. Ok, ok. Buying the Han Solo action figure IS an empirically proven, peer-reviewed scientific way to enlightenment. But for the most part, the benefit is coming from you, and you do not need to attend a bunch of meetings where people who don't know you will get all up in your face about what is wrong with you, and you are expected to put blind faith in some old, quite possibly dead guy who magically has a connection to you. Just saying,

Here in Japan, Nichiren Shu is generally viewed as being a "normal" Buddhist sect that is open to everyone, while Nichiren Shoshu/Soka Gakkai are both viewed as cultish groups that reject all other forms of Buddhism as heretical (and both groups believe that members of the other group will go to hell).

For those who have had bad experiences with SGI, I strongly advise you to look into the Nichiren Shu sect of Buddhism. Note that they are not Nichiren Shoshu, which is where the SGI came out of, and there are some doctrinal differences(there are basically three main schools of Nichiren Buddhism, Nichiren Shoshu, the SGI, and Nichiren Shu). Nichiren Shu does not believe that Nichiren was a Buddha and instead that he was a great bodhisattva(which is actually supported by his writings, he never proclaimed himself a Buddha), and their practices consist of chanting Namu Myoho Renge Kyo (The 'u' was left off by Shoshu and SGI, but that is the formal way to recite it and what Nichiren actually wrote in his writings), reading and reciting the Lotus Sutra in all it's part (not just two chapters), copying the sutra, and chanting the sutra both in Shingon as well as the native language of the practitioner(It's pretty far out to chant the sutra in English, unlike in SGI you'll actually start to understand the meaning, intent, and narrative of the sutra, and therefore it's teachings). Nichiren Shu is way more ecumenical than SGI or Nichiren Shoshu, they will sometimes even do sitting meditation before and after chanting the Odaimoku, along with other prayers and practices. I assure you that it is a very different experience from SGI, the difference between night and day. There are online sangha communities that might be worth looking at if you are interested. Good luck!

I was involved with Soka Gakkai in the early 1980's. Ultimately it was not a good experience for me. It is definitely Not the Dharma of Sidhattha Gotoma. It was probably Dausaku Ikeda's Dharma. But it is not the Buddha Dharma. The Dharma is about letting go not accumulating. The Soka Gakkai was most definitely cult-like.

Hi Doug! My reasons for exploring Buddhism (Secular) are to try and ease my 'suffering', improve my mental health, become a better person; to help me help others. I have no interest at all in making more money than I need. No interest in social climbing. I am accutely aware of how fragile and precious this 'one life' of ours is. I have been visiing my local Buddhist centre for a few years but was never at ease with the overt religiosity. They are also New Kadampa Tradition which puts me off even further. So coming across 'Secular Buddhism' has opened new doors for me. Allowing me to follow a practice I am comfortable with. I will still got to the NKT centre because I have never felt that they wanted anything from me (other than the few pounds for the meditation class) and because I believe them to be good people (even if their spiritual leader is misguided). Keep the videos coming...I find them informative and interesting. Btw any arrogance you think you have is not evident in the videos :-)

i was born into this soka gakkai religion and was told at a young age that this is the only religion i should practice, i was never given any answers as to why. my parents are huge and very committed practitioners. i didnt think much of it when i was young. as i grew older and learned about cults was when i got an inkling that it is one. my parents would try to covert people into this religion with the promise of material gains which is not at all what buddhism is about. what threw me off more was the members idolizing the sensei, which is another cult like sign. they brain wash people with the promise of getting whatever you pray for. i live in singapore and they even make little booklets for you to set goals on how many hours you want to chant. it seemed to me like ways to brain wash people. i have been trying to leave but my parents are too committed to let me leave.

The "cult which must not be named" was called NSA at the time - Nichiren Shoshu of America. It has since been renamed "Soka Gakkai International" - SGI-USA - after the leaders and the group were excommunicated by their former temple parent Nichiren Shoshu. He's talking ca. 30 years ago - 1987 - that's when I was recruited, in a state in the upper MidWest, and I can tell you it was *exactly* like what he was describing at that point. I had to wait 6 months to get my scroll because there was no priest in our state; we had to wait until the priests from the Chicago temple would road trip up to do the ceremony (with the tap on the forehead, yeah). So if a priest were in town to do a ceremony *that night*, there was DEFINITELY a big push to drag anything with a pulse in! I saw THAT, too. His recollections ring true and are absolutely *typical* for what was going on in NSA at that time. Yeah, run like hell :D

My main issue with that particular group was the fact that the members were all very pushy. That's why I decided to stop all the stream of mails, newsletters and meetings. Because once you start to get into that circle you feel pressured to say yes at anytime, at least for me this was very off putting. And I was under the impression that there was a sort of blaming implied if you didn't take part in all the group activities, almost like you were not doing it the right way. I know that members who bring new members to the orgainization and introduce you to the Mystic Law in theory will benefit from that. But I felt a general unease, maybe because it seems quite a strict and imposing way to be Buddhist. (doing it twice a day everyday) I'm not saying I was brainwashed at all and I feel sorry for those who might have been, but I felt a sort of heaviness and obsessive trait in the people I've met who were part of the group. On the other hand, I do think that even by chanting a single OM you awaken and shake something within you that is very powerful. So chanting has got surely some benefits. My personal experience with it is that after I've chanted I felt more energetic and with more life force but I don't know if this happened as well to some of you, I felt even a bit exhausted. Of course if you chant for one hour it's very active! It activated my "solar plexus" area and energized my whole body, and intentions were clearer. So I think I will give it another go but this time I would like to follow my own rhythm with more compassion and I don't want to be part of any group. I was wondering if any of you had a similiar experience to mine.

I was in the SGI for years in L.A then Minneapolis, you're spot on. There's too many stories to tell here. They use to like to check up on members by showing up at there door and giving you ,"guidance " I mailed my gohonzon back. I use to wash the walls and do free cleaning at The SGI building ,they would tell you you're working off karma by volunteering constantly there more like working for free. It's really sickening how fake the members are they reach out to you around May Contribution month telling you to give a donation.

SGI has apparently toned down since their more forceful ways decades ago. Still, in Japan we always see them appear during political elections (followers often ask non-SGI friends to vote for a certain person). Another weird thing is the "other religions" sections at the bookstores - usually an entire bookcase is full of books "by" Ikeda; another entire bookcase is full of Okawa Ryuho's books (he leads another cult). These two dwarf other books about religion for sale.

This is so interesting. I am interested in cults from a psychological perspective. Usually we associate cults with Christian groups but there are high control sects from all walks of life. I was raised with the JW and got out of that. I live in Cambodia and recently I went to a vegetarian Taiwanese restaurant and the owner was a lovely elderly woman. She invited me to her temple and it was a Buddhist temple so I figured I would like to check it out for the experience. So I went and I noticed they had a strict dress code had to be a white shirt with a collar. They also had pictures and statues of other people than Buddha. The men entered on the right and the woman on the left. There were 1,000 prostration and mudras. It turned out that this was not 100% Buddhist but it was Taoist and I didn't like the deception. It had the simple tactics of experience and how this has helped your life. Then there was indoctrination class . They wanted me to sleep at the temple /school for the night and I was like I am busy I need to go back to the city. They again tried to talk me into staying and I again insisted that I had to go to take care of my dog. I didn't like how they came across as a Chinese school but are teaching their beliefs I would be upset if I entrusted my child to this '' school '' in the thought of them learning Chinese but little Chinese was being taught. I have gone to the restaurant again and I couldn't think of the workers the same knowing that they are all students of this sect. I saw the elder woman and I remember doing the special mudra or hand posture they taught us and she said that it is a secret and I should not do it outside of the temple. She wanted me to be a student and study with her but I told her that I have a job and bills that I can't just drop everything. She asked again and I got firm I said that I wanted to learn Chinese not change my spiritual practice. She has called several times and invited me to the temple but I refuse to go back. Not for me. It was an interesting experience but I got the impression it was a high control group.

I went to some SGI gatherings hoping to learn more about Buddhism in general when I was young and very ignorant but curious. It was surprising to me how they never discussed anything that had to do with the Buddha and his teaching. They chanted and talked about their problems and how they overcame them with the prayer as you said. They talk more about Daisaku Ikeda than the Buddha itself. When I tried to leave because I was uninterested they contacted me for a while but didn't pressure me to stay, which was good I guess. It really felt as a cult to me. Thanks for the video! I love your channel and I am learning a lot ☺️

“Worldly desires lead to enlightenment “. Within my Sgi Buddhist sect we are aware of what the scroll 📜 says within the gohonzon. As one of my old mothers of faith says “follow the law, not the people”. I didn’t have the experience of getting tapped on the head with a stick. But I will say it can be different in different places because of the people, not the actual practice. Some folk have cult mentalities but I don’t let them pressure me into doing anything I don’t want. Leadership included.

There is weirdness all about. There is a way out of that weirdness and the way is eightfold. Investigating and making sure the Buddha Dharma Wheel (Dharmachakra) is actually being used would be a prerequisite. ^^

Your experience with "the people who worship the lotus sutra" is very common. I was raised chanting "namyo ho renge kyo" I never received luxuries, but I did see the ability to manifest with our environment. I had a crime committed against me and as a kid I remember being so focus on the event during my chanting. The next day it turned out the criminal had been arrested due to a witness I didn't know was there. Could it be the chanting or my intentions driven by a meditative state? I don't know. I still listen to lotus sutra English recordings, but I follow anything vedic (upanishads, Bagavad Gita etc) and every Buddhist sutra I can find. This channel has been really great to listen on my path in life. I'm committed to the Buddah path without dogmatic adherence.

Thanks, Doug, appreciate the red flag, I have always appreciated that Buddha was absolutely clear in Buddha Dharma there are no secrets,. It is clearly wrong view to conflate focusing to achieve something material (or otherworldly) and the Buddha Dharma. As for getting involved with a Buddhist cult where you let someone else do your thinking and perhaps the heavy lifting for you, as someone once said, "In Buddhism, you have to wash your own brain." and as Buddha said, be an island. Thanks again go well, and to your own practice be true.

I went to a buddhist group and the leader singled me out to put down my previous teachers. He also showed up mysteriously in court screaming street car of desire while I was trying to get a divorce from an abusive person. Besides the strange personal attacks I noticed his followers would only laugh when he spewed a profanity as if they reacted only when jostled. He would barely answer questions mostly dismissing them keeping control over every conversation. There were certain books in their bookstore they acted reluctant to sell (nothing any adult couldn't read in a college class.) He also did the touch thing which freaked me out. Never mind the imposing bliss! I got the heck out of that group but I still have nightmares!

Back in the 80's in NYC, SGI members used to approach people on the street at night, get them back to a meeting in a house, overwhelm them with stimuli and then pressure them to get into a car and whizz them off to the Culture Center near Union Square and have them officially convert that same night. Their pitch was like a salesman: "Just try it and see if it 'works'.". It was being marketed like magic, chant for things and you'll get them. The focus was on poor and disenfranchised people in the ghetto, who they then got to do free labor to run their magazine business which they were profiting from, by telling them that anything they did to further the cause of the organization would result in good karma for them. Not only was this exploitative, but often led single mothers to neglect their children. These were already struggling people who had to work a lot to take care of their children, and they convinced them that they need to spend whatever free time they had at organization activities and this would somehow wind up being for their childrens' good because it was a "good cause". So they had them up late into the night working for free on magazine subscriptions, while they got paid, and their children were either home alone or off in another room unsupervised and then had to ride subways and walk around the ghetto late at night to get home, exposing them to harm in many ways.

I also think the members of the "unnamed" group you mentioned approached you in a whack way. I am a member of this group. I , and most of my fellow members avoid aggressively pursuing or "Shakabukuing" people. But, I can attest there is a tendency for Type A fanatics to assume leadership positions in that group. My district has two who drive me crazy at times. While they are often the "face" of said group, they don't represent the core members. I also feel they have toned down a little in that regard throughout the years. J

You handled some possibly controversial topics here with grace. Sadhu. A good example of right speech which I can attempt to emulate.

Great stories Doug! Always good to hear some of your anecdotal experiences! More please!

Found this video very helpful thanks Doug, I have a friend who was recommending I do this nam-myoho-renge-kyo and I've been doing it and I am really starting to find it completely pointless because her explanation is they believe "by doing this chanting it awakens your inner Buddha" .... It really helped that you were able to explain your mind frame at the time, I found myself exploring esoteric spiritual things but really going about in order to get some kind of personal gain like get a better life path and success after experiencing failures in professional and personal life. I really think the big problem with cults and even well-intentioned motivational speakers is that mindset. I'm glad I stumbled upon you on my search this morning keep up the good work 🙏🏽

(Paraphrasing) “if your getting into Buddhism for worldly ends your wrong” I …basically agree. This not from a ‘rationalist/skeptic’ POV, but if someone becomes interested in Medicine Buddha or Green Tara because of the (many!) worldly benefits that they promise, that can become the basis of a relationship with the Buddhas and the Dharma.

Thanks for an interesting video. It was so much better to hear your voice without background music. If you decide you prefer to use music, you might consider keeping it at a very low volume. Please keep up your good work.

Doug, I feel the same way you do about these cults. I discovered buddhism through your channel and fell in love with theravada buddhism and I've been practicing ever since, I also have a skeptical background, and I've also read Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins, and some weeks ago I was introduced to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism (wich I believe is the cult you're referring to) and I felt really weird about it, I asked the same questions you did, got the same weird answers, and Idk, I think mahayana buddhism (specially nichiren) just doesn't work for me at all.

At many (Chinese) Buddhist temples, the routine is to buy incense to light. When you buy the incense, you are given two crescent-shaped blocks colored red on one side and black on the other, you pray (or ask) and throw the blocks on the ground. Based one the blocks the priest gives you a rolled up paper with a response to your prayer. That and observe some very congregational holidays is all the local Buddhists do with respect to Buddhism. That's probably the majority, they go to the temple to ask for something.

There are other Nichiren sects also that aren't well known and aren't cultlike. SGI is about money, leaders, deity of an older Japanese wealthy man. It used to be NSA which split in 1991. Over priests being the ones keeping the traditions of knowing the sutras and such but the SGI believed they had all the right sutras and historical knowledge. It was not a good relationship between the two.

I choose to follow Pure Land Buddhism since I have a busy life fascinating video keep up the good work

As you no doubt know, the experience you describe happened back in the days when SGI and the Nichiren Shoshu priesthood were still together; the initiation rite you describe with the priest placing a gohonzon on your head is the give away for that. It's called gojukai; SGI doesn't do anything similar to it, but the members of the Nichiren Shoshu Temple still receive the precepts in that manner. As far as pressuring you to go from the introductory meeting to a temple like you describe, I've heard from members that things did kind of work that way back then.

Mindfulness has indeed in some circles been twisted into "spiritual materialism." For corporations in particular it has become a way of playing blame-the-victim with regard to their workers ("You're just not being mindful enough") as opposed to looking at the real causes of their stress like being overworked or underpaid. Sadly I wonder if the fact that corporate elites can use mindfulness in this way is part of the reason for the current widespread interest it- it is being pushed by those with the material means and motivations to push it inside almost every workplace. This is why meditation should not be taught in isolation, it must be taught in combination with wisdom and compassion (though I also hope that mindfulness will prove to be a Trojan horse inside those very corporations, making people more aware not less!).

Whenever I ask a SGI member the most basic question about Buddhism they can never answer it. How can they claim to be Buddhist without having this information?

From my 13 years living in Japan, I found that most Buddhism temples in Japan are business entities masquerading as religious groups to get money from tips from their fans, otherwise known as forced donations from tourists (whether foreign of domestic), and most priests are just professional funeral conductors and know very little about the many Buddhist Sutras. They are much like people who call themselves ministers in the US from every conceivable religion and denomination thereof, so they can give you what ever kind of bazaar wedding you are willing to pay for (whether it's Elvis singing to you in a drive-in chapel in lost wages or a Wicca may pole wedding in a park). Fortunately, the so-called priests in Japan are only profiting off of funerals and/or forced entry payments by tourists into their historical landmarks, not wedding. We can call this "funeral Buddhism" or "dead Buddhism." Then there is living Buddhism, which is the millions of people who go to meetings in Japan at people's homes and chant the wondrous law of the lotus blossom, which means they are affirming that they are the Buddhas of Absolute Freedom, which come into this world in the latter day of the law to masquerade as common mortals; those in Japan who are becoming extremely active in society to charge the world in a positive way. I see the former is very weird (I got really dizzy going to a few Shingon and Ritzu Funeral, where I had to pay a forced 100-plus dollar donation, because my co-worker's, who I hardly knew's mother, whom I never met, died, because she was a practicing fan of the businesses called Shingon and Ritzu) and the latter is very cool and I'm so glad to be a part of the latter and not the former. What is the right way to meditate is a value judgment and what to meditate for is also a value judgement. When Shakyumuni said in the lotus sutra, "In the beginning I made a great vow, to make all people equal to me with no distinctions," what I believe he meant by "no distinctions" is without making value judgments on what should or shouldn't lead a person to their chosen path of awakening. So where you might not see someone meditating (or chanting) to get a raise at work as 'the right way to do it," that may be the only thing that is going to lead a person to be reunited in the US with his/her family that is half-way on the other side of the planet, because that person chose to move back to the US, when his/her spouse and daughter, who are Japanese haven't yet decided to do so and are afraid in might not be financially feasible to do so. I find most white middle-class people (a majority being men) who never had to worry about starving to death or being homeless being drawn to mediation centers and to making value judgments of "What is the right reason to practice Buddhism." But truthfully, who are you to judge what is the right or wrong way or reason to chant or meditate? "Consciousness includes everything and judges nothing." -Gary Douglas

Hello my name is Paige/paigley, I am 15 years old girl from Thailand 🇹🇭. I’ve had a similar experience with the cult situation you were talking about. When I was around maybe 8 years old, I was being put in a cult by my mother(It’s a reallly long story and some of the things I had to go through was just weird) , turned out the whole thing was a fraud. And so now I feel depressed because I was being lied to and manipulated by. I don’t know how I can recover from this traumatic experience. 😢 My dad however did not believe this cult my mom was suggesting, and I was really young and didn’t understand anything so I just went with my mom. Then my mom suggested that I invited my friends to go to the cult temple and pray with, and I did. (I hope that, this comment wasn’t offensive or anything thing. I just really need to get help.)

My experience with the form-of-Buddhism-that-shall-not-be-named (the local chapter you encountered may indeed have been run by Voldemort) was far more innocuous, if in fact your group was the same or some offshoot. The difference, if I'm remembering correctly (about 7 years ago), is that they had a translation of the text beneath the written chant, the main repeated chant meaning "homage to the Lotus Sutra," a sutra which I later on my own learned teaches that all beings in samsara will eventually become awakened. So I did not have that question dismissed out of hand as you did-though I had difficulty putting my finger on what they actually believed-nor was any induction urged upon me immediately after the initial session, though I was emphatically urged to return, and I attended perhaps a dozen or so meetings after. In hindsight, what bothered me was the emphasis on having faith in the chant, this after I had lost my faith in faith 3 years before. I was sold on Therevada Buddhism from books I'd read, and with limited local options, this was my first disappointment/realization that not all Buddhisms were the same, since little attention was paid to meditation or working with the mind. I hadn't thought of it until you mentioned it, but there was also definitely a "Word of Faith" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of_Faith ) or "The Secret" vibe, which I chose to overlook at the time because these were people affiliated with Buddhism and I was looking for a community, and which, having lived down South for 4 years, I've been turned off by ever since. In Christian circles it's also referred to as the "prosperity message," and it's interesting to see the phenomenon creep up in a non-theistic religion, the sentiment is antithetical to real spiritual practice, since possessions or no possessions, success or not, all scriptures of all religions tell us that we should be able to be content in all circumstances. But for all that, I didn't find them as cult-y as you found them to be... but they were a little cult-y ;) I will say chanting isn't a terrible idea, it is after all an integral part of Theravada Buddhism, for instance if you've ever heard the sattipathana sutta read aloud, I think anyone would find the line between chant and meditation blurry. Even chanting nam-myoho-renge-kyo as part of a daily ritual would be fine... I just wanted anyone reading this to know that the baggage that Doug and I experienced that came along with it isn't inextricably tied to chanting in general or even to that chant in particular. I'm reminded that there was a time in England when they were considering using another color for "stop" instead of red, and G.K. Chesterton wrote an article explaining that just because the Bolsheviks use the color red it doesn't mean they own the color. And so it is here, this chant just happened to be appropriated by this sect of Buddhism. As far as faith goes, nothing wrong with that either, though you might generally think of faith as a heart attitude in the Buddhist context. The kind of faith in particular that chants like the sattipathana sutta inculcate is more of a faith in human potential, faith in the certainty that the Buddhist articulation of practice is the answer to human existence. Anyhow, if not the best-written, these were at least my thoughts on the issues raised in this vlog, these last two paragraphs being directed at whoever else might read this (e.g. practice suggestions) rather than yourself, Doug, if it isn't obvious. Thanks again for posting the vlog.

SGI members worship Ikeda like a God. Yes they want your money and there is very little accountability. Beware.

I am a member of SGI and I will say that there are some aspects that can appear very forceful and inauthentic. When I joined SGI, I wasn’t told anything about chanting for material gain. I was told to study this Buddhism diligently and use Ikeda Sensei’s explanation to understand Nichiren’s writings even more and in this way I can open the world of Buddhahood in me. I was so surprised to hear this and I am glad I stayed and have used this Buddhism to understand life and death. I think encountering right leaders and members is definitely helpful. I don’t push for shakubuku either. If people ask me about the philosophy, I tell them I am a Buddhist practitioner.

I was a member of SGI and even worked on their translation committee. It got too cultish, and I left. Now I am a Nichiren Shu priest.

Everyone seeking a new religious, spiritual, or even political group should watch this video. There are lots of groups that are not healthy in many ways and of many types. Other features of unhealthy groups I have seen include encouraging shunning of family and friends, requiring increasing amounts of time, the belief that the individual can not function without that group, or encouraging self deprecating behavior. Any belief, even the most harmless, can be sharpened into a weapon if that is the intent the way a spoon can be sharpened into a knife.

Thank you so much for this video. I lost my best friend to this cult. She emotionally abused me, tried to spiritually bypass my mental health issues. When I went into therapy finally after some time I left gakkai. I understood the wrong that was happening there. And I thought how should I save my best friend. But then I realised she is now a part of it no longer a victim.

We all had our lessons to learn. It helps to always search first the historicity, life story, and works of the founder of any lineage or Buddhist sect. Nichiren's life events were questionable, so as his teachings on the Lotus Sutra which deviate from how Chih-i of the Tendai sect understood the Lotus sutra. The same goes to SN Goenka who was not a monk who brought the Vipassana meditation to the West, which turned out to be a "Vipassana craze" toppled with guru worship of Goenka. As told in the Theravadin texts, Vipassana is not a technique but a quality of meditation twin with Samatha. Better to learn it from Theravadin monks who practice it, not just sitting Vipassana (as taught by Goenka), but completely involves standing and walking Vipassana as originally taught in the Theravadin tradition.

Hello, I can see where you are coming from for SGI. I am deeply saddened that you had such a bad experience with it. I truly believe that if the leader you had spoken to had explained the meaning of chanting, the words we chant, and the meaning of chanting to the scroll it wouldn’t have built on your skepticism. Also, as you said about being very materialistic, I also understand where you are coming from. It can be weird to say chant and everything you want will come true. Sounds like magic and very skeptical!! Lol however, that is definitely what SGI is about. The heart of SGI is in building a happy, strong self. There is so much more internal fulfillment that is too long to get into in this comment section. I am just very sorry that you had a bad experience. I believe that leaders, especially when introducing a new concept must know what they are actually saying. Our practice is based on faith, practice and study. I think your experience opened me up to the urgency of spreading the correct teaching which Ikeda stresses. Thank you for the insight! I will definitely ponder on your experience and how we can make a change in the approach!!

I know which group you are referring to. I have some minor experience with this group and have had several friends who are members of this group. Your description based off of my experiences and what I have observed in people who practice in this group strike me as correct.

What do you think of the FWOB with Dennis Lingwood? (I can't spell his ordained name!) especially with the 1970s sexual abbuse allegations?

Hi Doug! I've revisited this video because I have recently become aware of 'Falun Gong'. It seems harmless enough but also appears to be a mix of Buddhism an Taoism with a hint of cult about it. Have you any thoughts? Also, which suttas/teachings in particular refer to material/social gain if the path is followed. I find it a little disconcerting if I'm honest and would like to know if it is balanced by other more altruistic, non-materialistic suttas. Tia.

Thank you, Doug!

Hi Doug, you miss the point of 'skillful means'...read the parable of the burning house (chapter 3 lotus sutra)....many religions are 'hijacked' by the 'egos' within the organisations...however, I think it is wrong to judge a practice by these egos. Why don't you do a piece on Nicherin Dishonin? A really lovely guy..human..working class...suggested everyone..including women could reach their buddhahood (which many buddhist teachings disagree with)..I find him a very interesting character.

Hello do you mean you chanting this in Sgi group before you said here?🇯🇵

I'm sorry about the person you met.. You were right to feel like that. Hope you find a person you can trust .

I've had a long hard meditation over the comment about 'chant for money' and how it seems contradictory to buddhist philosophy..and what comes up for me is...in buddhism (like many religions) you work towards enlightenment and freeing yourself of your karma/suffering (the things which challenge you in life). Theres a great quote 'earthly desires are enlightenment'; which at face value looks mad...but its true...you need to search out and face your challenges and overcome them in order to become enlightened..so if you have a problem with money you need to face this challenge not shy away from it..so it seems Nicherin wasn't a monk looking after the rich and famous..and he wasn't promising you would be rich by chanting..he was merely saying face the things which challenge you as this is the only way to overcome them and really see the world/universe for what it truly is🙏

Soka Gakkai are controversial, but their approach did help Tina Turner to break with Ike Turner. I agree that they are very different from Buddhism as usually understood.

Thanks for this interesting video. I'm not sure if you've done this yet but a full talk on Buddhist chanting would be interesting. For a lot of Westerners, it can seem ritualistic and even cult-like. Another "controversial" topic would be scandals involving gurus and teachers, and the question of whether someone can be a good teacher, or a good Buddhist, while involved in immortality.

I am a nicherin buddhist practitioner the experience you mention off chanting for material stuff was also a turn off or me also, its interesting your experience was indictcative of the older practice in the 1970s when I began my practice. I could fill volumes, as I have chanted for near 50 years. we center our practice around the teachings of the Lotus sutra and the lessons are deep and profound and come in layers.none the less I will continue to subscribe and listen and possibly I or other can resist your understanding of nicherin buddhist practice.... David

If rebirth is a part of the process then the Buddhas life shows us the path is like a bramble bush the Buddha ended up in many places he had no intention of ending up I to have had that experience also but an old belief I hold is if the student is sincere he will find the sincere teaching and so I hold to that. Thanks for the discource.

I was in my 20’s when introduced to SGI. I was already interested in Buddhism and meditation prior. I somehow has gotten in with a chanting group doing the lotus sutra in shingon and really enjoyed the group chanting. There were moments of resonance and harmonics where you could really feel the power of a group chant. Then I was invited to a larger group meeting and this is where I got my first taste of the culty cultish kookiness. After the chant they started getting up one by one talking about all the material benefits they’ve received from chanting. It was very off putting. The group organizer came up after and asked me what I thought about it. I told him flat out that I felt that I was watching an infomercial and didn’t feel that it was real Buddhism. He was obviously a bit offended and said that he would tell the members to tone it down next time. I politely told him that there would not be a ‘next time’.

Thanks for this wonderfull video🙏

Is Vipassana regarded as a cult? They offer this 10 day extreem meditation boot camp.

Hi Doug. That seems like a very strange experience you had! I'm glad mine wasn't' nothing like it. I've been a Nichiren Buddhist for 31 years and a member of the Soka Gakkai for this time. The chanting for material things is sometimes done by Nichiren Buddhists but this must be properly understood in context. In truth, it's quite a shallow way to chant but the point is to use "earthly desires" a source for motivation for growth, and through chanting we are connecting with our Buddha nature no matter what we chant for. Desires or motivation for chanting can be vast and include: to gain materiel wealth, to get a better job, to get better from illness, for revealing our Buddhahood, for the environment and world peace, for others who are suffering etc. The point is to chant and activate our Buddha nature via the sound and vibration of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. In other words, chant from what ever motivates you to chant. This is the principle of transforming suffering and earthly desires into enlightenment. However, if one starts of by chanting for material wealth, for example, via chanting, they will come to see that there are more important and pressing things to be pursuing and this is because no matter what we chant for, or use as the motivating factor, as our Buddha nature manifest and becomes a stronger tendency in our lives we begin to raise our life state in the process. By way of example, in my early years I "chanted for" shallow things, but as my life grew with connection to the dharma via chanting, I began to focus my chanting on "higher meaning" things. I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask me any questions you like. Dave (from the UK).

Interesting video. Cult is a loaded term, but I agree with the gist of your message, especially the last couple minutes. If members of an ostensibly Buddhist group are talking about how chanting got them new cars or big houses and better jobs, it does make one wonder. Whatever merits nondualism has, there’s a valid distinction between worldly progress and spiritual progress. Right View has nothing to do with acquiring new cars, bigger houses or material gain. It’s not that it’s bad to seek those things, but if your spiritual practice is oriented principally toward those ends, perhaps you are deluding yourself. That is spiritual materialism, and something to be let go of.

welp. my Japanese grandmother is in a cult I guess. I was always turned off to what I thought was Buddhism because ALL she does is chant at her alter, for hours, so I thought she was praying to it. I found out in my teens that this is a specific sect is completely different than others and now I'm doing more research. she's the sweetest most hardworking person ever and not materialistic or pushy at all, and she chants probably for long life or for her family to be healthy and well, honestly. I feel bad because I'm sure they've just taken advantage of her for decades. she's always going to meetings in DC..

I wouldn't say dozing off during meditation is a "danger."

It's important to teach us how to be careful regarding wolves in sheep's clothing. Thank you for this vlog👍 It helps with that. 😉

I’m so confused cause I just became interested in sgi and it seems like a positive environment to promote happiness

This is all very interesting to me. I started practising Buddhism 5 weeks ago and I love it! So far Theravada is the one I am following, but I also follow secular, Mahaiana and Tibetan. SGI temple is only 3 blocks from my house. I contacted them to meet them. They were nice. If SGI is ok with me practising the way I have started I will go to their meetings. If they do not like it, I will not join them. We´ll see.....

Nichiren sounds like the Martin Luther of Buddhism..

This definitely sounds like SGI back when they called themselves the Nichiren Shoshu of America, NSA for short.

There’s something wrong when your sect of Buddhism tell you that when you Reach Buddahood you can alter reality by chanting Namio Rengekyō at will like a Mage or Neo from the Matrix

Thanks for sharing your experience, Doug. Something to be aware of :D

How do you feel about a Goenka Retreat. I have been curious about trying one.

this same thing happened to me. This stranger tried luring me into her house and that sat very badly with me.

Doug, Isn't almost whole Buddhist concepts kind of like a cult? Don't do that, don't do this, don't desire, don't crave, craving is bad, but then only the "desire" for enlightenment is good, like wtf? If you go into and talk with people ask advices, the one you get, let go of your thoughts and ideas they are dreams, just trust your Buddha-Nature, and they will leave it with a quote from Chögyam Trungpa. And if you check eightfold path, it's like a cult rules. Even the Buddhists don't apply right speech, and most precepts are basically ego-reducing.

Google sgi whistleblowers to get first hand experiences.

Spiritual attunement....A lot of us benefit from endeavoring deeply or not so deeply into it...What I have found with this Buddhism? Biggest Intent.....Self assessment and improvement. Human revolution. Even bigger intent World Peace. Through the changes we make in ourselves bit by bit we all change the world. It takes prayer and action. No matter the faith, practice or philosophy, If it is centered in at least that and at most civility and equality We are all going to benefit.

Sadly, I know from personal experience that SGI and Kadampa are cults. SGI is much worse, but they're both totally made up "Buddhist" lineages that want to separate you from your money as fast as they can. The rest of the Buddhist lineages are actually quite questionable, especially Tibetan and Shambhala. ALL of the Buddhist lineages are religions except Zen, and you still have to be careful w/ Zen. I recommend that people not get involved in any of them and simply practice sitting meditation daily by following your breath. If you do this diligently, you will get direct insights into yourself and reality. You will wake up. You do not need a teacher or a sangha, but this will lead you to the dharma. As far as we know, this is exactly what the Buddha did. No more, no less.

I do not like the use of the world cult, because I consider it a judgmental word. I also think of wealth as more than just money. This can be most easily viewed as wealth being having everything you want. There are numerous ways to achieve this, but the simplest way may be to reduce your wants.

Bon Lam (Bonism) of Tibet was intregted on Budiism forcefully. people dont know about that ascept.budiism was never about rituals . Lam became Lama...the elebrated form. gautam buddha left everything n lived simple. he never told to pray statues or photo just like bon teachings. i mean black bon,pure buddhism on not white bon. lit candle is tantric praCTISE LOL

What are your thoughts on the Kadampa tradition? There is a Buddhist Center in my area near where I live…but all the books they have are written by the same man who passed away recently. It’s my only experience with anything Buddhism outside of an interfaith forum.

So a couple of things. First off- time + cult = religion. Period. If this video were about evangelical Christianity shaming, humiliating, crippling, and disempowering people I would be like- I get that (definitely was a cult now a religion). I grew up in the evangelical church and it did do a lot of damage. But for some reason this guy is going after SGI Buddhism because he ran into a bunch of 20 year olds who would likely be nuts about anything (please change the world zoomers!!). However, we are talking about a Buddhist practice here. And the more I practice Buddhism the more I realize that the core values of Buddhism are all very similar and empowering. SGI, just like ALL of the other practices focus on internal changes for ourselves. That includes finding inner peace through personal empowerment, a deep unchanging respect for all life especially oneself and others, changing karma, seeing challenges as opportunities for growth, and a peaceful existence. Folks are encouraged to chant for material things so that they will start to see that they are responsible for their own lives. If someone becomes a Buddhist as I did through the SGI and then branches out to include other slightly different Buddhist philosophical ideas, then all the better. There are so many amazing differing philosophies about how to find balance and equanimity in your life. I continue to study and learn and grow through lots and lots of Buddhist schools of thought. In the SGI you are always encouraged to use the logical part of your brain to filter and make the best choices for yourself. The SGI does promote active change and as someone who believes in political activism we have to be a little careful about exactly what we're willing to accept (Zen, Shambala, etc.) and what we want to fight for- human rights, tolerance, a better quality of life for all. You fail to mention that the SGI began as an anti-war movement out of Japan after WWII that blossomed into an anti-nuclear war movement- which is still a motivating force today. Our SGI group has many older, very wise and very measured individuals. This guys should have done more research before he started judging (maybe work on your own Buddhist practice, Buddy?). So- Mr. Doug- know your shit. You may have just discouraged a whole bunch of folks from practicing the only Buddhist philosophy that they have access to. That means you probably kept people from pursuing ALL the Buddhist principals that you hold dear too.

There should not be any cult. One has to detach from everyone if want a moksha instead cgi focused on meeting new people more n more. God is with in you .

I also believe it (sgi) to have cult like tendencies. However I feel they don’t do much more then what usual religions do anyway. It’s why I practice alone and at home and I still feel fulfillment. Finding enlightenment and joining their group are two different things. I come from a Christian background and never felt connected to any church. I tell people what I practice and encourage them if they ask questions however I don’t agree with any kind of dogma and to me forcing people to do anything they don’t want falls into that category of forced religion. If you happen to be in an SGI group and feel great then good for you. If you’re practicing another form then also good for you. Just chant and remember you’re why. There is a power in the word no that falls within self care. When we can form groups without attached dogma or leader worship then we’re good.

I was on the SGI-USA website recently I was flirting with the idea of SGI for many years but it seems too cult like for my taste but there's people who like it. But back to the website. It looks like they implemented a few changes one of them is mandatory home visits and I think now you have to wait a year to get the altar. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway not for me. I have had great experiences with just doing basic breathing meditation I'm not involved with any one school of Buddhism it's just too many. Any suggestions would be helpful.

You were introduced to the Lotus Sutra by a poor teacher. There is a English translation of The Lotus Sutra by Burton Watson to read first. Pay special attention to the Dragon Kings daughter and her actions during it. The Chant literally means: I devote myself to the Mystic Law of Life & Death. Revealed through Cause & Effect,. By the sound of the voice/Sutra. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. All the known written letters, treatises, fragments and official petitions to the Shoguns Government. Have been translated into English. The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin Volume 1 and 2 probably at a University Library or Online. I have read every book they had translated into english and done the chanting as I need it. The car, apartment, job. They are the things you NEED to have as a foundation. TO be able to practice your meditation and prayers for yourself and family and friends. The organization is NO LONGER in the hands of mostly Japanese leadership. Americans are now leading it nationally and all the way down now. To the Community Center and Chapter Level. Last I heard there were 1500 + Districts, the smallest official meeting level. Done mostly at volunteering members homes. I have been a member for 34 years.

Please start a podcast!

Yes!

04:35 SOKA GAKKAI

Weird and destructive form of fake Buddhism. So proud of myself for getting out of that dangerous organization! All of them are zombies and don't exist without their ghost leader and organization. Thank you so much for sharing.

Nichiren?

I been apart of all religions except hinduism and chanting worked better than all and I was a part of them all even satanism

he is talking about nicheren Buddhism my father was a nicheren biddhist for a long time and the scary thing to me is e really was able to use chanting to achieve all sorts of stuff and even said he has been able to find out whole stole his ring stuff like that honestly if he hadnt told me about all the crazy things he was able to achieve with it but he just left whenever he was done wich makes me less fearful but it really does seem like it was a religoin and now its been currupted or something

Agree

So what of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These seem to be more of a cult then Nichiren Buddhism

Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo ??