The voice of reason speaks again! Your level-headed approach is so refreshing. The fact that I can in no way discern whether you admire or loathe this man speaks volumes to your level of professionalism and integrity.
The only problem with the Goldwater Rule is that you cannot expect a person with NPD to seek out the help of a mental health professional. In their mind, there is nothing wrong with them.
Exactly. The only way to invoke the 25th is to prove the president is unstable. (not exactly) The president can deny any attempt at diagnosis. In fact, people with cluster B disorders are generally in denial. We should be able to use the power of diagnosis, and thus predictability, for such a high office.
Narcissists do sometimes seek professional help. There are a few reasons why. Sometimes they present with depression/anxiety after a narcissistic injury. Rarely, they present because they have developed some insight (intelligent and not so severely narcissistic usually). In the former case, they will continue to engage until they have secured other sources of narcissistic supply. The latter cases are more interesting in that there is some hope for them through psychotherapy. .
Once again, Dr. Grande gives us lessons in mental health and personality. He also displays professionalism, integrity and fairness. We need to remember the lessons he tries to teach us about ethics as well.
Until Dr. Grande does a video on how utterly insane and unhinged his colleague Bandy Lee is when it came to Donald Trump (the Dean of Yale's Medical School fired her for acting like an unhinged maniac about Trump and anyone who votes for him), I am left to think his analyses are little more than political hack jobs masquerading under the pseudo-science edifice of psychology. C'mon Dr. Grande... do Bandy Lee. And don't leave out any of her unhinged statements and behaviors cause I'll be watching in the comments section. But my guess is you won't ever do Bandy Lee. I think we all know why.
What I heard Mary Trump and Dr. Lee say is that a diagnosis is not important, and are not making one. Instead they say that his behavior is so outrageous that it warrants strict vigilance.
who should he apologize ? people who attack him , he is an empath , he feels for injured soldiers , and helps them, do not get me wrong , I love to watch DrTodd he is the best, I am an old person , I watch Trump ever since he was young , working with his father, he earned his money , he is not entitled, expecting money, if you call him grandiose, he should be proud of his achievement he loves his sons , unlike narcissist fathers, he is not lack of empathy he helps people in need, if you do not mind me asking why are you bashing him?MAGA what is wrong with that do not you want to see our Country do better like it was ?less crime , low and order, low prices, ?gasoline price was$1.75 , now it is close to $4.
but dr did not tell you how much worse it could get...you fell for political trick.. no exam of obama or others here...oh how much worse it could get..wake up now... exam over... i could pinpoint your wrongness so quick..as above said.. you want swamp and riots and such worse...you will have it.. of course your choice
@@ShellyBellyBeans - Because Dr. Grande clearly implied it applied to Trump (his name is in the title and Trump's photo is on the video title card). Not to mention Dr. Grande steers clear of insinuating similar mental health diagnoses to Democrat politicians in a way that is not so subtle and indicates to me that he is a political hack. Where's his reluctant Goldwater Rule analysis of Hillary Clinton and rapist dementia patient Joe Biden? Oh, that's right, Democrat politicians are off limits for Dr. Grande.
I am not a clinician, but I grew up being abused by narcissists. Were they 'diagnosed?' NO, but they check all the boxes and I would know their behavior and personality way better than any clinician.
Impressive how you were able to so thoroughly navigate this topic without letting emotions sway you, like so many. I hope your channel continues to grow so others may learn that it is a positive thing to view topics and situations from multiple angles. It is ok to have varying opinions and views without demonizing others. Thank you for this video. I believe many of your subscribers appreciate you for this logical approach you take.
Life and Diy That's what doctors r suppose to do. I was diagnosed the same as an exes aunt mind u there was no DNA connecting us. It was his way of getting even because of our divorce. It was quite a finally and lesson learned.
Yet one year later in another video he diagnosed Trump as a grandiose narcissist. He should lose his license to practice for diagnosing someone he’s never even met.
@@teresacox2511 psychiatrists are on one level , and business/profit is on another , he is running a business , yes he doesn't care about politics, or the future if the country , he is more concerned about the majority of his subscribers that put the bread on the table sort of speak. ..so , imo because I do believe he is an intelligent individual, he is applying his trade to appeal to the largest audience he can gather ,. Yes it's wrong in the sense of what is right , but not in the sense of business....and he or any others in his
I really appreciate that you having integrity about what you do. Its sucks when people use tools that are meant to help people for selfish and negative reasons. keep up the good work Dr. Todd
@@DrGrande besides integrity, I also like your lack of judgement against people with mental health disorders and your clarity that your role is to help them. It would make me feel like I'm in a safe environment if I was your client.
Yes, but I don't think you can ignore the fact that there is something going on with Trump. I can't give a professional diagnosis but even I know he has something
@Anal Sex Stinks "it is called BIASED. you like someone you say good things about them. you dislike them you say bad things about them." Funny that you call him biased. When your own bias is extremely obvious. Your total lack self-awareness is laughable. @Greg Davison "for example, he had no issue speculating on Joe Biden using only what he sees in media..." There's difference between speculating if someone has corona virus based on just looking at them, and then telling if someone is missing an arm. You don't need to be even a doctor to diagnose if someone is missing an arm, it's that obvious. And Joe Biden's dementia is so obvious that he is is figuratively flailing around with just one arm.
@Anal Sex Stinks LOL You should have, because by your reply, you proved my point. Leftists: Always petty, always ignorant, always losing, always unwilling to learn anything new.
I'm having to hit the 30 day snooze button when this "dragging the issue to the dark side of the cereal box" gives my Facebook frenemies a chance to ONCE AGAIN make everything an US Against Them libtards game.
His analysis demonstrates his political beliefs as he made it about arm-chair diagnosis vs comparing Donald Trumps public behavior against the DSM, Donald Trump checks every single box on the DSM list for Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Dr. Grande has to be aware of this, he is a well-read man.
Excellent! As a retired LPC/LMFT I applaud your objectivity and common sense; as well as the organized manner you present what somites is complex material.
There's a major difference between someone with NPD seeking treatment from someone who isn't. I would think that people with NPD don't often seek treatment. Undiagnosed NPD must be highly underdiagnosed.
Reid Sjaaheim They actually don’t, because they lie to themselves and others that they’re all good while they continue their insanity while gas lighting and pointing the finger at everyone else all the time.
@@sweetluvgurl Exactly. My sister has NPD and BPD (lord knows what else). Took me many decades but I finally found the healthiest thing for me to do was to cut her out of my life altogether. Nothing was Ever her fault. She was perfect. I was a bank and her punching bag. People with NPD don't see how others see them.
Reid Sjaaheim - So basically you're telling me you can diagnose people with NPD even though they're not your patients and you've never spent so much as 1 minute interviewing them? LOL. You people are completely illogical and violate your own rules, tenets, and paradigms (i.e. Goldwater Principle: "the mental health profession cannot diagnose someone who is not their patient"... yet somehow they KNOW Trump suffers from all sorts of mental health illnesses despite Trump never being a patient to any of these same people. LOL).
That's actually a great point but I don't think he's changed much . That's not how disorders work.. I do understand why you say this.. I also want to know what he thinks now because he's appeared to have gotten worse..
Excellent presentation. I found it to be measured, insightful and most importantly helpful personally. I have become a fan of Dr. Grande. I also appreciate the irony of a person named “Grande” discussing narcissism. Just an observation not a diagnosis; LOL!
Thank you for being a voice of reason here when everyone else points the finger at everyone else. All I know, is that over the last 6 years or so I woke up and started honoring my intuition, paying attention to my observations, and using my God given common sense. Instead of ignoring what I know is my truth, I decided to acknwlege how I felt, what I observed, and what my common sense told me was going on in my world. I cut everybody out except my BF. Well, as these things continued, I turned my attention to him. The emotional abuse, the gaslighting, things disappearing from my house, the lies, deception etc. Since I asked him to leave, my life is much calmer. I thought I'd share this bc I'm not a Psychologist or Psychiatrist but, I do know how I felt while this was happening and I know how I feel now. Do your research, talk with a professional if possible and follow your own guidance. Bottom line... Love doesn't make you feel like shit. Thanks Doc.
@D JL --You wouldn't last two days if you were wearing Black Skin. Before you critique those taking statues down as if THAT represents "trying to tear the U.S. down," develop a little bit of empathy. White males have dominated for centuries. Others want some influence over the collective course of the nation since it influences everyone's destiny. You just want to keep Blacks and probably women "in their places" like the other sexist, racist pigs who support Trump. He makes their raw ID seem legitimate. Got your tiki torch ready for the next Nazi parade, do you?
Dec 2020: Just stumbled onto your videos about Trump. Love your low key, systematic analysis. However, lay people need to be able to diagnose and label others from a distance to avoid being victimized. Most people are uneducated and clueless about psychiatric disorders which leaves them vulnerable to sociopaths and other manipulators. Example: Trump supporters continue to send money to a billionaire, even at this late date. I am now an old man. I wish I had learned early on that the world is full of "nutjobs" that have some power over my life [starting with my parents]. I am thankful to my high school CIVICS teacher who taught me about emotionally charged Hitler propaganda (long time ago but still relevant today). It was a good start. Had the rest of the USA had my education Trump would never have become president. DougB
Here's where I disagree with the "cautious" approach. We have hours and hours of video footage of Donald interacting in a variety of situations. We have hundreds of thousands of tweets. Donald is not an ordinary individual like Goldwater, for whom the information was limited. It's unethical for an entire community of intelligent people to bind and gag themselves because of a "rule" crafted in the mid 20th century. Technology has advanced. In the information age, different rules should apply, especially to those we entrust with public office. If there's enough information, at the very least, professionals should be able to make a preliminary diagnosis or "consensus evaluation", choose your syntax. Something, many things are deeply deeply wrong mentally with Donald. A ten-year-old would know this. The psychiatric community lets the public down by a strict adherence to an antiquated and misplaced sense of ethical obligation. When deep problems and pathological lying are manifesting in the highest office ... EACH AND EVERY DAY ... you have a duty to use your knowledge for the public good.
True, all politicians hold rallies. However, trump continued his rallies even shortly after he was in office and haven’t stopped. Who campaigns 3 years before election season? (That was rhetorical, only trump does)
Extreme insight: "Even when mental health professionals are sitting in front of someone they aren't very good at diagnosing mental health disorders." One of my best friends is a psychiatrist and she says the same thing. At 65 years of age I have seen SO many people who have gone to therapist after therapist and never gotten an accurate diagnosis. People with NPD do NOT seek therapy in my experience. If they do they go a maximum of three times and then they quit when they have to become vulnerable and self-reflective. Personally, I believe most politicians have a degree of Narcissism. Doctors don't diagnose it or "catch it." It causes EXTREME problems in people's lives. As a side note...I think Trump is a whack job.
Mary Trump Clinical Psychologist ~ "I have no problem calling Donald Trump a narcissist, he meets all nine criteria as outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders (DSM), but that label gets us only so far.
@@RWald8888 The actions, behaviours that the person who has NPD has . The fact that grandiose behaviours are part of this means the NPD person would never, ever think there was a single thing wrong with them. So why do they need to undergo a test.
kkheflin3: As a side note.... I think that YOU'R a whack job. Trump has more compassion 4 people in his little finger than the rest of the Presidents put together. A "whack job" would never be able to achieve what he has achieved. He is as transparent of any politician I have EVER seen and that includes Ronald Regan. What exactly R YOUR credentials? So what if your "best friend" is a psychiatrist. They have been trying to "diagnosis" Trump since he came into office & none of them have been right & that includes YOU! You've never even met the man! You have zero EVIDENCE that he is a "whack job." If U had to go under the kind of pressure he has had to endure, then unlike him, YOU would be a "whack job."
The Goldwater Rule is ridiculous for highly public figures. We hear Trump speaking extemporaneously all the time, so the idea that one would need to speak to him in a clinical setting to make a diagnosis is just nonsense.
We don't need a diagnosis to see how divisive and incompetent he is. Even in times of crisis like right now, he is more concerned about how HE looks, throwing tantrums at journalists who do their jobs and how it will affect him and his re-election. And when you have that much power, it's dangerous. I don't need a diagnosis to see that.
You aren’t doing your job as a journalist when your opinion is the only thing you present. So if you want to talk about incompetence look no further than the MSM.
This is one of your most important videos in my mind. As a young man I was diagnosed with conduct disorder and the stigma behind it actually made me worse because I took pride in my behavior. It made me feel like some big strong villain, when in reality I had many insecurities
My husband is exactly like you and he will not get help! He is a miserable person so sad! He is a person with feelings he is torching himself an others by want wanting to get help.
@@jadepaulsen8456 maybe once upon a time. Psychedelics we’re very helpful in teaching me that my personality issues were me clinging to defense mechanisms, so much to the extent that it drowned out my ability to have a fully developed sense of self. Honesty/authentic self expression is more valuable to me than living a lie nowadays. I see a beauty in it I didn’t see before because when I was young I became convinced that if I was my authentic self I’d never be loved or safe. That’s one of the reasons I clung so hard to antisocial and narcissistic characteristics. Through narcissism, I could feel a cheaper version of “love” which I always felt denied, I could also convince myself that I was worthy of others love. Through antisocial-ness I could convince myself I was always safe because I could control peoples reactions and screw them before they got the chance to screw me. Through all of it though, I was never happy. I had a death wish. I also sought out treatment a bit younger than most so I imagine this made me less set in my ways.
I sensed you were hesitant to label Trump as a narcissist. I was hearing the medical criteria you mentioned to diagnose NPD. Trump seems to fit that criteria. Also, Dr. Lee is an authority on mental health, so his medical opinion should be respected, and be given validity.
Yes I was thinking the same thing. And? Dr Grande does offer observations of mental problems on other public figures and celebrities while offering the disclaimer he is not diagnosing, only speculating. Why couldn’t Dr Grande speculate on Trump’s condition?
@@e.thomas2475 no not by their tv persona, but in Trump’s case, by his actions. Dr Grande has offered his opinionated analysis of other celebrities and public figures, while offering his disclaimer that it’s only his opinion and speculation, not an analysis
Dump Chump, In the light of current events, I decided I should refresh my memory with this one since many are once again wondering WTH is wrong with the guy.
This is such a lovely analysis. This kind of careful thinking and application of technical points in the spirit in which it was intended would make public discourse so much more substantive and constructive.
Anyone who would write a book about someone else's mental health without their approval is highly suspect. Doesn't seem very professional, even if he isn't his psychologist.
Agreed, most people with APD and NPD wouldn't necessarily be considered dangerous. However, most people with APD and NPD aren't in the position of power that Donald Trump is in.
On the subject of Trump, you've probably seen in the news today that Mike Pompeo has claimed that "God sent Trump to save Israel". Which got me to thinking, it would be interesting to see a video from you on that subject; people who claim to have been sent by God, or that "God spoke to me", but who don't present with any outward symptoms of mental illness. In any other facet of life, claiming to have been spoken to by a deity or god would likely be grounds for a psych evaluation, so why don't we have the same reaction to people who claim to have been spoken to by God, sent by God or whatever it is? And does making these kinds of claims suggest some sort of mental health issue, or are they just lying? Be really interesting to see how far you are willing to go in that conversation. ;-)
Eddie G. I'd be interested in Dr. Grande tackling the "God" subject, too. Donald is also campaigning for 2020, as are many on the dem's side, so I'm looking forward to hearing which of them decide to drag God into the political process, as Mike Pompeo has already done. :)
@@EddieG1888 it's seems it would fall into delusional, there is exception to widely held social beliefs/norms however. I could be wrong, but it seems not to be a mental health concern (I personally dont agree there though...).
@@elainelouve Since Trump has a large family and businesses, I think he would be very much against niclear war. Dead people can't do business. I don't think his children and grandchildren would benefit. Hilary on the other had seems like she has less to lose.
A political historian said on TV recently that, in her considered view, the single most important quality of a good and effective leader is empathy. I agree. And so while not wishing to demonize those with NPD or APD, the traits associated with both are, in my view, highly undesirable in a political leader.
They are undesirable for any human being. The more of these people we have the more the fabric of society will disintegrate because empathy is a foundation of healthy people and healthy society. I have to disagree with the doctor here. I know he is trying to give a reasonable and ethical argument for not diagnosing people from a distance but most of these people including trump are dangerous to society and will never go get diagnosed, unless it's court ordered. I give admiration to people like George Conway and the psychiatrists who wrote the book "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump" who speak up about this threat to the world. It's why I watch more videos about people who have been abused by cluster b's and share their sories and wisdom because until it happens to you you don't get it. Cluster B's are dangerous and more information needs to get out about it. This might be the silver lining to the trump cloud is that more people become aware of cluster B PD's and theie adverse effect on society.
@Goodnuff Fornow I don't know what you are talking about when "referring to unethical behavior". I think you mistook what I said. I don't know where you think I'm advocating "unethical behavior". What I meant is trump's behavior has been enabled by his lack of consequences for his behavior by his republican party and will continue to get worse and has gotten worse since his impeachment. It has emboldened him even more. He has not gotten any "effective prosecution" for his behavior only enabling. I'm not advocating any criminal behavior against him. That said, he is a very scary narcissist in a position of great power and has done great harm. If the people who think this guy is a strong leader knew how really damaged and dangerous he is maybe they wouldn't vote for him. His base, and everybody for that matter, needs to be educated about cluster B personality disorders.
@@dawn1913 If I were you I would look up cults. One of the facts about cults is that people don't know they're in them until they get out. Also never question Dear Leader.
Thank you for distinguishing between diagnosing someone with depression and saying that they are depressed. Job loss, bereavement, housing problems, lack of sleep, a difficult manager, a difficult commute, juggling childcare and work, a poor diet because you can't afford food... so many reasons why someone could be depressed.
This is a good topic to cover. I find it so despicable when laypeople use armchair mental health diagnoses as pejoratives. If you don't like someone, just call them an asshole like the old days!
Makes sense Conway as a lawyer, is being patriotic beyond a debate, to save our country from real & continuous ruin with amendment 25 or impeachment. Valid.
So calm, cool, concise yet thorough and with a smile... Favorite line: "... don't be a President" This video is helping me to look at the situation with a sense of humor and empathy for people with disabilities even if they are "president". Important line: "Vote!"
The attack was the one of lowest points in US history. To think that anyone can interrupt the US parliament while conducting voting count for the transferring of power. Treason is the action!!
Dr. G, I just discovered this video. Feeling the need to persuade. For a non-lawyer, you've done a stunningly lawyer-like job of laying out your case. But I think we have a forest/trees issue here. You've got the trees exactly right. Unfortunately, the freakin' forest is on fire. There's a context issue. If your purpose in making a diagnosis is to treat a patient, then I agree with you completely. But that's not what's at issue here. The putative patient, who says that he believes he is a "very stable genius" and cannot be expected to submit himself to examination, let alone treatment, is not just "some guy on the street." He's the most powerful person on earth. The purpose of any form of analysis is to improve our ability to understand cause and effect so that we can predict better, improve outcomes, and mitigate or avoid damaging outcomes. The talking-head-o-sphere spends an extraordinary amount of time trying to understand why the current occupant of the White House does what he does. I find that considering him to be someone with APD renders his behavior far more predictable and understandable than any other framework or model of which I am aware. So I will use it until a model with greater predictive/explanatory power becomes available. I came to this conclusion 3 years before George Conway did, and unlike it's object, it hasn't disappointed me yet. Is this a medical or professional diagnosis? Of course not. But I can read the Hare Assessment, score the subject based on his publicly observable behavior, and draw what I believe is a reasonable inference that the president of the United States is a psychopath. The purpose of this is not to insult psychopaths. It is to try to get people to stop wasting time trying to explain his behavior rationally and start focusing on a reasonable understanding of how much danger we might or might not be in and what the hell to do about it. To your comment that lots of psychopaths and narcissists live normal lives, I would say, "not quite, because if they did, then presumably they wouldn't have wound up being diagnosed as psychopaths and narcissists." To your comment that the 25th Amendment is the proper way to handle this, I would say, "sadly, no, because he has surrounded himself with sycophants, and because Republicans, one of which I used to be, are suffering from a serious ailment that causes the spine to dissolve." Do the current circumstances warrant a broader view than "it's about treating a patient?" Well, we now have significant reason to believe that if our president's response to Covid-19 had been faster and less, well, narcissistic, the death toll would be tens of thousands lower. That's tens of thousands of lives on his hands. And that is only one consequence of having someone with this degree of apparent instability in charge. Under these circumstances, I cannot imagine why it is too much to ask that mental health professional make statement along the lines of, "This is not a diagnosis because I haven't examined or interviewed him, but I can say that his publicly observable behavior is consistent with a diagnosis of NPD or, more likely, APD, which is a polite way of saying that yes, it sure looks like the president of the United States is a psychopath." Indeed, for mental health professionals to fail to do so and to hide behind the Goldwater rule strikes me as a bad case of doing things right instead of doing the right thing. Because the nation hangs in the balance. Respectfully, Dan Wallace
There has never, ever been a comment better than this one, everyone agrees this level of commenting had never happened before! BUT on a serious note, I couldn't agree more, well said sir. Of course some ppl are so loyal to a political party they can't pull their heads out of their ass*s (democrats and Republicans alike) and address concerns about their own party like rational human beings. A question warrants an answer not another question posed back to them (i.e. what about what ____ did or said) I recall that being rational only as a child on the playground because WE WERE CHILDREN and didn't know any better.
Maybe it'd be wise to look at the CDC's most recent #'s. They are estimating less than 10,000 deaths from COVID alone. The other deaths originally attributed to COVID were deaths tied to pre-existing conditions such as diabetes, asthma, and cancer. These deaths are no less of a loss, but cannot be solely named as deaths from COVID. Mr. Biden and most of the mainstream media had a field-day with the POTUS closing down travel from China. He was "overreacting", the "regular flu is far more deadly than COVID" they quipped. It's disturbing to see how short memory spans are when it critics have to eat crow.
Great stuff as always. All the piffle and labelling in American debates does nothing to address the real issues. Appreciate the compelling delivery and compassionate motivations. We should remember that mental health is about helping people with health problems, not smearing people in mud because it makes our lives simpler
I appreciate Dr. Grande’s professionalism but he is dismissing some important points. The duty to warn petition has over 80, 000 signatures from mental health clinicians. Yes the Goldwater rule exists . However, the mental health business is in need of many changes and this is one. I get a total of 55 minutes to assess and diagnose clients. Many clients are evasive, lie , are poor historians, lack awareness, etc. In addition seeing the client in a professional setting for 55 minutes gives no insight as to how they interact with the world and others. It may not be ethical as of 2019 but it is far easier to diagnose someone such as Trump due to hundreds if not thousands of hours of real life data throughout many years. At the very least I would expect another licensed mental health clinician to admit that the preponderance of evidence highly suggests Trump meets the criteria for N.P.D.
There are different spectrums of NPD. My mother had it, and she is emotionless and brags about having a superhuman ability not to feel emotion. Trump on the other hand has powerful pro life views due to emotion. He also loves his grandchildren a lot, none of that coincides with NPD as I've experienced it. My mother never bonded with my children, and she went out calculating how to destroy the relationship with my partner, deliberately. Trump doesn't behave in that way, he is extrovert (he's a ruthless businessman, so this is a necessity to survive in that environment), but he is no narcissist. It actually makes a mockery of how cruel narcissists are, trying to say Trump has it.
Word salad... uh George W Bush was notorius for mixing words. I think it is nervousness. Trump has a strong assertive persona, but as another poster points out, that is a persona. Someone needs to evaluate the TDS ( trump derangement syndrome) the label placed on those literally freak out at the sound of his name. It is real, I think it is a serious problem, and I have seen it my own experience. People practically going into some sort or rabid fit at the mention of his name. 0-60 in 2.4 seconds sort of thing. What is up with that? Sounds like, and by my own experience of seeing people do it, appears to be a serious problem. A person could stroke out.
@@traceyevans8050 As opposed to having trump for 4 more years. You better believe it. trump getting re-elected would be a disaster. I suffer from trump reality syndrome(trs).
Juan TwoThree When a cheating, lying, illiterate, reality TV fail cheats to win the presidency with Putins help, I intelligent people are concerned. When cops consistently murder people of color intelligent people are concerned. The protesters you speak of are Trump operatives who are sent to crest havoc and fool Trump’s cult.
So, what is the human responsibility to warn when a danger is perceived. Sure, suggesting a diagnosis is not something that could be supported in normal circumstances, but the damage that can be done by a US President is incalculably larger. His public behaviour certainly fits every aspect of the NPD diagnosis.
Dr. Grande, I would appreciate if you could do a video on your experience treating NPD/Psychopathy. It's widely believed this can't be cured for some of the reasons I state earlier. I think many of us would be interested in your experiences and observations. You talk about egosyntonic and dystonic disorders. Since they are egosyntonic, there is no motivation for treatment. These people will never be diagnosed, yet they present a threat to others and society! It's a problem!
Definitely agree. I have been curious for years about how the "treatment" plan (attempt) might go. My master's was in Clinical Counseling & basically all I learned was that PDs are not treatable. I did not go into the profession or seek licensure but this one thing finds a way of revisiting my curiosity
If someone has a personality disorder does it matter! This is probably the nicest thing, I've ever heard. As long as there's no crime committed, we have nothing against the man. Love this argument. You help us keep things in perspective. I'll be careful before, I make a judgment, next time.
Many who voted for Trump banked on the idea that he would "pivot," and become more "presidential." He's lost those people. Trump is Trump. And that's not a good thing. I knew this would be the case. I'm 69, and have been aware of this guy and his behavior for decades. I knew he'd be a disaster as president, and my fears have been borne out.
The "Goldwater rule" is a construct. It seems to me that it would actually be much easier to analyze a public figure "in the wild" than on the couch. You get to observe the person actually behaving without the chance of them posing for the analyst.
I disagree, I’ve had NPD clients before (several), and you get WAY more personal insight on them in clinical session vs. “out in the wild”. You get personalized info on family, relationships, cheating, their fears, their faults, their insecurities. It’s 100x more personal than seeing them from afar. And a stranger from afar won’t tell you they’ve cheated on their wife their entire marriage, that’s a massive difference a public face vs. their personal face. You can also catch them in lies and address it in session, vs. in public they can walk away. *I’m a licensed therapist, certified by The Board of Behavioral Sciences btw.
I agree with and appreciate your distinction between the person and the persona, as well as looking at this objectively. I do think this is generally a fair assessment of public figures. However, I do think there's a valid reason to apply narcissistic traits to Donald Trump as a person, and that is because not all public figures have equal power. When behaviors have real-life effects on the lives of others (Americans, his cabinet members, etc) it makes it harder to believe that it's all just for show. That's like if a murderer tried to make a defense that killing people was just his persona, but really deep down he's the kindest person who wouldn't hurt a fly. When it comes to holding ultimate power, I think it becomes easier to distinguish the person from the persona based on how they wield it. It's not a facade if the consequences are real.
I've noticed that Trump lies copiously and transparently, praises himself and his accomplishments to a ridiculous extent and has little or no empathy. Whether that qualifies him for psychiatric diagnoses of NPD and APD is of little concern for me. For me it only means that he's overwhelmingly unfit for public office.
@D JL TDS should be right next to TRS (trump reality syndrome) which is what Dr. Lee and myself suffer from. We see the guy for the narcissistically damaged individual his niece, Mary Trump, is writing about in her new book coming out shortly. You also have TDS (trump delusion syndrome).
I love Dr. Bandy Lee’s book. I learned a lot about the psychology field from it. The book is made up of essays from 37 mental health professionals. I highly recommend it, and I am glad she did it. She and the other writers all lay out the reasons for breaking the Goldwater rule very clearly.
Thank you, thank you! This video appeared on my recomend and I kept from watching it because I thought this was another lefty Donald Trump bashing video. I'm a Donald Trump supporter and I love America and our president! Thank you for calling out the liars who are trying to slander him!
I have watched many of your videos and I find them to be interesting. One thing that bothers me is I've seen you give your opinion about personality disorders for several people both famous and not but here you seem to be hesitant to give your opinion. My question is why not with him? Are you just trying to avoid being political?
I have been a licensed MH professional since 1982. I am uncomfortable with what I view as Dr. Grande's AT TIMES overly conservative take on things, in this case, I find him clearly biased. I really wonder how history will view this video and the approach therein. He is using, or rather mis-using, his professional knowledge here to split far too many hairs, create specious ambiguity, ignore common sense, and let Trump off the hook, ignoring or downplaying our duty to warn and help educate the public. There is a "higher law" at work here, or there should be. That said, I admire his ability to take on "hot" or highly controversial topics in the news..to "go there", so to speak, but from the perspective (mostly) as a licensed MH professional. It is not easy to do well.
Like he did with prince harry and his wife who made personal decisions to change their life and he associates her with mental health issue of narcissism
I feel like he's taking a reasonable stance on the professional ethics but given his own videos on narcissistic abuse and on true crime cases he should be more willing to concede the value of educated opinions short of official diagnoses. On the one hand he's giving advice to people who may be entangled with probably-undiagnosed narcissists and on the other assuming that his training gives him valuable insights about criminals who of course he can't diagnose.
You are considered, informed, careful, insightful, experienced and professional. I say this as someone who has benefitted from counseling so I really enjoy your videos. However, based upon what I see elsewhere, these chacteristics have doomed whatever aspirations you may have as a political commentator. My guess is you have none so you'll have to continue doing something meaningful.
I appreciate Dr Grande's cool, analytical approach, but I appreciate Dr Bandy's earnest voice more. I believe a warning should have been sounded by more mental health professionals earlier.
The issue is really made more difficult because of the socioeconomic realities in the US. A wealthy, white young male has a low chance (compared to those of different ethnicities and lower socioeconomic groups) of being penalized within the correctional system, or being subject to a therapeutic intervention that leads to a diagnosis of a conduct disorder or any disorder at all. Our criminal justice system has grossly favorable outcomes for those able to find representation at a high cost. These biases and flaws make it difficult for me to view those who make it to adulthood without a dx in their medical records as being without a diagnosable illness. In Trump's case specifically, we know from sworn testimony that he has threatened lawsuits against any institution through which he has records regarding his physical health, mental health, academic achievement and where records of early behavioral issues might exist. This is another socioeconomic issue that leaves who receives, and who does not receive, diagnoses, as a very uneven playing field. Just the differences between being seen as a private pay/private care client versus an insurance-based model or court-mandated with a county or state level practitioner, can have very different outcomes in terms of a record of mental health services ever having been accessed by an individual. While the regulations around diagnoses are well intentioned and designed to protect people, it is arguable that there is such a strong economic bias across all institutions and systems in the US that a pathological individual can avoid detection. I believe public supposition is an outcome of an awareness that there are many rules that do not apply to people born into great wealth. When Trump was just a TV character, I think he was viewed more as an eccentric and capricious personality. With the public's safety and welfare at stake, the context of the same behavior inevitably changes and the stakes are different. I personally don't believe it's even really an issue a formal or informal diagnosis being made by a professional or non-professional that are eager to do so, we're simply seeing and hearing skepticism and concern reaching a boiling point as different information continually comes to light. It is a curious and unique situation.
I understand that you’re walking an ethical line. BUT: given the hundreds - even thousands - of samples of Trumpian behavior available on video and audio tape, you actually have more data about him than you have about all the folks on whose personality make-up you regularly speculate. Nonetheless, excellent explanation of ethics and diagnosis.
Yeah, but it is information from only 1 context. If you are able to interview a client's family or friends, you are able to get information from different context. Which makes your diagnosis a lot more accurate.
trump exhibits very disturbing behavior. I don’t need to be a mental health professional to see that this behavior is detrimental to the United States. I, for one, appreciate having my observations validated by hearing professionals voice their concerns.
Very good points, clearly made. I can see why this would concern mental health professionals, but I am not particularly worried about the diagnosis at a distance, as there are for example accomplished and ethical surgeons who are psychopaths, therapists who are BPD, etc. but his behavior is very troubling. Some examples: 1) endless tweeting. 2) exaggeration beyond hyperbole (genius level IQ, healthiest physical results, tallest building, etc.) so that one questions his contact with reality 3) often seems to rely on information he made up (when he visited Paradise after devastating wildfires and talked about Finnland not having fires because they "raked their forests" which was then denied by Finnish government officials and roundly spoofed by Finns posing on social media with rakes) which again calls his contact with reality into question 4) Prior criminal behavior, ( Trump University was made to settle numerous fraud cases by a NY state court) 5) Extraordinarily tasteless comments, and apparent glee, about how his being rich and powerful makes women welcome him pawing them 6) His very limited vocabulary makes me suspect declining intellectual function; he does not come across as having sufficient education for his position 7) His inability to select viable officials, as the WH has been a revolving door for its staff, or maybe his selection is good but he can't get along with anyone 8) his wife seems to be allowed to fire WH staff also, which is extraordinary. While one accepts that our President can make choices that 50% of us will not agree with, in the past I had always believed an adult was in charge.
With Trump, you have a person who is used to getting what he wants from an early age. He's a billionaire and very very competitive and successful. His name is a household name brand all over the world. He operates in one of the toughest business environments in New York where you have to be tough. I think these factors combined with his giant ego and super self confidence combine to give you the person we see. He does have all the personality traits you list, and these are considered major personality flaws by many and a divisive personality in politics. However to some, they are also a strength (which makes him a capable leader) and part of parcel of what makes 'The Donald' witty, driven and successful. He doesn't suffer fools and likes plain speaking. I think his heart is in the right place and he means well, but his personality and way of speaking does rub a lot of people up the wrong way. We often see another side to Trump though, a good family man and a good guy who cares about others and loves his country with a passion. People in prison for many years he gave a second chance in life. The poorest in American society he has focused on lifting out of poverty and improving those cities. He wants everyone to be financially better off and is selfless about himself, takes no salary and has lost a considerable amount of money (hundreds of millions) to get America back on track economically. He wanted to give something back and serve his country. He looks out for the Vet's with proper healthcare, supports law enforcement, the unsung hero's who risk their lives every day on the border and in the cities dealing with violent criminals. He is always bringing ordinary people to the Whitehouse and gives praise and credit where its due, and admires peoples bravery etc. He's a good Christian and promotes Christian values. There's a lot of good qualities in Trump too, which we haven't seen in other Presidents as much as we have Trump, so it's not all bad. And for all his flaws, you got to admire him the amount of stick and criticism he gets, it can't be easy doing that job, many would just quit. He's no quitter though and wants to go a second term and see America fully back on track in the safe zone. Even though it's got to be mega stressful the harassment by the left and the hostile media constant he carries on regardless. And this at a time of life when a guy his age with all his wealth and success can afford to retire or enjoy life a bit.. he's working harder than ever and for the benefit of others, not himself. I think people lose sight of that and get caught up in the negative. There are people who have achieved astonishing levels of fame and success, like Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley, Warren Buffet etc who remained quite shy and even fragile people or very humble.. Trump is just not one of these people and likes to blow his own trumpet (pun intended). One thing I have noticed about him, which some may consider bullying, is that he is tough fighter. If you pick a fight with him, he's your worse enemy and he will call you names and ridicule you. However if the shoe is on the other foot he does not take kindly to any ridiculing of himself. He seems to go into a rage and threatens lawsuits or tries to destroy that person. This suggests underneath that hard brash exterior he is emotionally vulnerable or insecure a little. Most people in the media spotlight would just brush off these jokes or mocking about the way he talks and his body language. But he seems mortally wounded. I remember when he was asked about running for President when he was a younger man and started to take an interest in politics, he implied he was not confident he could perform that role and hinted he didn't have the personality or charisma, warmth or charm to be a leader politician.
Meh...I guess you could make this argument, however I think it's really offensive towards people who definitely suffer these disorders. Trump is more likely an immoral crook, a criminal and just in general a piece of shit. Don't be too quick to let him off the hook by implying it's due to some disorder.
I agree with your position to the ethics regarding people diagnosing someone in this manner. I also would like to express my gratitude to you for this channel. I find you to be one of the very few individuals/professionals to address mental disorders in regards to NPD and BPD with a salvageable outlook. My wife of almost 40 years has suffered from major depressive disorder and has been also termed medication resistant. She has been medicated for approximately 35 years and in the last few years has been placed for brief periods (2wks per) for suicidal reasons. The last time was a godsend because we were able to get her involved in a DBP program and get her a new psychiatrist as hers had left the area, left no information as to other psychiatric assistance and we found that no one was accepting new patients. Although this was beneficial for her and the DBT program was helpful, her therapist offered to her that the problem was me and that I was a narcissist. Her psychiatrist told her that although he could somewhat agree, he leaned more so toward borderline. She soon became heavily involved in researching these disorders and connecting the dots so to speak. She has cut off all contact with me as it’s all over the internet that victims need to get as far away as they can. I didn’t really understand exactly what these disorders were and had to begin learning as much as i could on the internet to find out if this was the case (which was 95% negative in any respect to curing) and sought out a therapist who I could speak with for help. In all honesty I can see that some of the criteria necessary for these types of disorders could be associated with me and could agree with my falling into the cluster B personality. The therapist I’m seeing says that I do not appear to fall into this diagnosis of NPD and BPD. When I offered this to my wife, she in turn stated that my denial of this was text book and that the therapist was basically a quack. I am presently seeing a new therapist and the facility in which she was sent to following the hospital stay that offers the DBT program to get a different opinion and see if they are willing to assess me for any type of diagnosis relating to these disorders. I feel completely helpless and aren’t sure of anything else i can do. She has convinced herself that I never loved her and that our entire life together has been one big facade. She only recalls the bad parts and is overwhelmed with anger and resentment. It feels hopeless to me in saving our marriage and I don’t know where to turn. The last time we spoke (took her to Florida for the winter) she asked me to leave. I told her that its very difficult to talk as she only allows me 3 reasons of any response I give. I’m either lying, making excuses, or “deflecting” blame. I’ll keep in there until I can figure it out. I can’t give up.
just like in the "invader Zim series" You are not narcists you are just stupid" LOL Your wife does not care if you are narcists or not, she just found an excuse to block you because she hates your guts and most likely because you are a reason for her depression regardless if you are a narcissist or not. From my own experience and just general logic, I would say that you probably missed some skeletons in your wife's closet in your wife what she was hiding really well knowing that if they get out something very bad will happen. Therapists usually can't help here because of the first task is not to cure the disorder but to change a person's values to match the disorder this way eliminating disorder and no therapist will ever do that.
I had a massive disagreement with an employer, and as part of his efforts to discredit me, he demanded that I go and see a shrink, because my behaviour had become unacceptable to him... So don't tell me that psychiatry isn't weaponized...
Ah, so this was Dr Grande's take 15 months ago on the so-called Trump Narcissistic Personality Disorder CONTROVERSY. Curious to know, Dr Grande, in light of current events and situation would you change, or add anything to, any part of what you've said in this video here??
It is plain to see that djt is one of the worst presidents the United States has ever seen. All that is required to make this judgment is to observe him. That's it.
Excellent video! That’s one of many issues with this current culture. They think because they have a Twitter account that they can post whatever they choose on it that they must be mental health experts when most of them don’t have much of an education. They’re either self diagnosing or diagnosing people they not only do not treat but who they don’t even know in person. That’s a scary notion. And I love that throughout this whole video how you personally feel about this man is not evident. That’s a hardcore professional! And someone truly emotionally centered.
If he behaves like a narcissist, acts like a narcissist, sounds like a narcissist, brags like a narcissist, agrandizes himself like a narcissist, what else could he be??! Oh! Of course!I forgot! HUMBLE! He says there's no one more humble than himself!
This feels like a Dr Grande video on Dr Grande. I'm glad he is just speculating in all his videos. Although he is VERY good at speculating with the information available.
14:58 you mention that people who have NPD go in to seek treatment. I was taught in my clinical psychology course that people with NPD are both unwilling to seek treatment, and unwilling to cooperate with a therapist if they've been coerced by a close person to take therapy. That is because they are the least likely people to admit to having any problem. I don't think any person with NPD ever got a successful treatment for it, but let me know if I'm wrong!
I definitely agree that mental health diagnoses should not be weaponized and that it’s unethical to diagnose someone you’re not treating, but I don’t think the Goldwater rule is necessarily an untouchable standard either. If a person is publicly displaying dangerous behavior that a clinician is trained to understand anyway, they should be able to say something to warn others. To me it seems very situational, I don’t think having a hard and fast rule is in peoples best interest.
I was diagnosed by my ex-wife's therapist with narcissistic personality disorder. I've never met my ex-wife's therapist. I was diagnosed based on what my ex-wife told the guy. I didn't think you were supposed to diagnose people you've never met.
You are not supposed to diagnose people you've never met. That therapist clearly violated the ethics/rules he is bound by. I don't know for certain whether mental health is covered in HiPAA patient-doctor confidentiality and privacy laws. You've been done wrong.
This is a very interesting and topical video. What exactly is meant by "diagnosing"? Is it okay for a non-psychologist to express his or her opinion that a politician - or anyone else for that matter - has a mental health diagnosis? I would say yes. Why? Let me give an analogy. I have a PhD in theoretical physics, followed by many years of academic research, teaching and consultancy; and I frequently hear opinions of people of all kinds about the Big Bang, "parallel universes", quantum reality, etc., etc., etc. And that is ok! Some of these unprofessional opinions about theoretical physics are incorrect, some are correct, some are even very incisive and not at all tarred by the fact that they come from non-physicists. The only difference between this situation and that of mental health diagnosing is the issue of the stigma of a mental disorder diagnosis. But if we hear an unprofessional opinion about someone's mental diagnosis, why should we take that opinion as a fact? It's just an opinion. DSM-5 is not prohibited to be read by anyone, just like a book on quantum mechanics can be read - sometimes misread - by anyone. As for the stigma of NPD specifically, as far as I am concerned, expressing an opinion that someone who behaves badly may have NPD is actually a mitigating factor: it means that person is not "just a jerk", but that he struggles to control his emotions and mental capacities. Sorry for the long comment, but I would really appreciate it, Dr. Grande, if you could touch upon at least some of these points in one of your videos. Why is it okay if I, as a non-orthopedist, express an opinion that someone may have a broken toe (or is that also not okay?), but it is not okay if I, as a non licensed mental health practitioner, express an opinion that someone has NPD?
SK A private opinion is ok...But an unqualified Public Opinion that seeks to pass itself off as a definitive legitimate diagnosis is just downright dangerous !! ......Take Hitler for example , his henchmen touted him as being the fount of all insight wisdom ,knowledge and practical solutions. They enforced his decisions without mercy on all of Europe...Yet he was a crazed maniac . ....So , so much for the unqualified opinions of his henchmen and all the soldiers who followed Hitler’s orders !!
It's important that when a diagnosis is made about any disorder, we look to see how widespread it is. If it is purely situational, a clinician is less likely to diagnose. As Dr. Grande implied, the more information you get, the more efficient the diagnosis you can provide.
It's really interesting that you are soo hesitant here, but when you were commenting on Meghan Markle you prefaced almost every comment with the basis that you feel she IS a narcissist... This is soo interesting to me...
If you look at most of his videos, he says a lot of people have a level of narcissism and it’s usually because most people think highly of oneself which is not necessarily an awful thing. In this video he’s talking about the people who diagnosed trump not about trump. Trust me I love Meghan and Trump can kick rocks! 😂
@@monicasainz3212 I have only watched specific videos of his as that Meghan video was soo biased in comparison to the ones (few) I had watched previously. It really put me off; it's difficult watching RU-vid sometimes wondering if someone you liked for ages is actually a racist. Racism to black people is the "acceptable" face of racism. Microaggressions are supposed to be ignored by us. I don't know that I feel the need to make excuses for racist people anymore. It isn't that people call people racist too quickly, it's that soo many people are simply racist.
Thank you for pointing out how these “professionals“ may be hurting/stigmatizing Real clinical patients. I have been watching you for a while and this is my first comment. Thank you, I learn a lot.
Shadowcruise99 He wouldn’t do that. He’s a democrat. Trump is the targeted victim here, and this guy is taking cheap shots from his ivory tower. If he was as impartial and neutral as he wants to appear, we would hear something about the Clintons, Biden, Schumer, and their henchmen on the networks. But he isn’t. He just needs to stay home. He adds no value.
Great video. Brought a lot of points that I have tried to explain to my friends, but since it is so easy to look up now, I see people diagnosing each other and public figures left and right.
